Topic: European Super League

[rossipersempre]

It would be like voting for a dictator because you don't like the party in power. At least with the likes of the Premier League, UEFA and FIFA etc there is a mechanism to vote them out.

Is there though? Or is it just a facade? We've seen with Abu Dhabi FC and Saudi United, the UK government has ultimate oversight of the PL, doesn't matter who is in charge there. Over at UEFA, having been re-elected unopposed, Ceferin is trying to get an exemption to extend his maximum term of office and as for Infantino, he'll walk through the exit door with the same compliance of his lifelong dental appointments.

It's not a democracy that wants to expand the CL to the Middle East (the Qatari-led ECA now having signed an MoU with UEFA) and shut down any competition contrary to EU law. It's not a democracy that gave Qatar and Saudi Arabia World Cups, never mind within 8 years of each other. A benevolent dictatorship is still a dictatorship.

[rob1966]

In the States, I get all the Prem matches for $6 per month through Peacock. CL/EL matches through Paramount+ $5 monthly (canceled when EL games are over).  League cup on ESPN+ $5.

Thanks for letting us all know that we're subsidising your viewing

[Eeyore]

Is there though? Or is it just a facade? We've seen with Abu Dhabi FC and Saudi United, the UK government has ultimate oversight of the PL, doesn't matter who is in charge there. Over at UEFA, having been re-elected unopposed, Ceferin is trying to get an exemption to extend his maximum term of office and as for Infantino, he'll walk through the exit door with the same compliance of his lifelong dental appointments.

It's not a democracy that wants to expand the CL to the Middle East (the Qatari-led ECA now having signed an MoU with UEFA) and shut down any competition contrary to EU law. It's not a democracy that gave Qatar and Saudi Arabia World Cups, never mind within 8 years of each other. A benevolent dictatorship is still a dictatorship.

Even from your first line though Rossi, even if the government does end up having ultimate of the PL you can still vote in another government. Hand the game over to A22 and what then? We have seen with the likes of the Glazers that once you sell to billionaire capitalist there is almost no redress.

The game needs proper governance, proper fan representation and less influence from big business. Not jumping into bed with the money men. 

[Samie]

 

Bernd Reichart, CEO of Super League: “One of the clubs that just made a statement against the Super League, called me and said ‘we're saying no in public, but we're with you’.”

[jepovic]

The key question is not whether the current situation is fine or not, but whether ESL would make the situation worse or better.
I think it would make it worse, and possibly catastrophically bad.
There's still a lot to lose.

[rossipersempre]

The game needs proper governance, proper fan representation and less influence from big business. Not jumping into bed with the money men.

That ship hasn't just sailed, it's circumnavigated the globe for almost two decades and shows no signs of docking. Abramovic 2003, Glazers 2005, Abu Dhabi 2008, Qatar 2011, Saudi 2021.

[rossipersempre]

The key question is not whether the current situation is fine or not, but whether ESL would make the situation worse or better.
I think it would make it worse, and possibly catastrophically bad.
There's still a lot to lose.

As Virgil said (the ancient Greek version not our captain), the cure can be worse than the disease.

[jambutty]

Thanks for letting us all know that we're subsidising your viewing

Just to put a real face on some of the imagined fantasy crap here.

[rossipersempre]

Bernd Reichart, CEO of Super League: “One of the clubs that just made a statement against the Super League, called me and said ‘we're saying no in public, but we're with you’.”

Very first thing I thought. John Henry with his fingers crossed behind his back.

[Samie]

Jurgen Klopp on the European Super League. “I agree 100% with the statement [from Liverpool]… But I am delighted we finally get a bit of an understanding that FIFA and UEFA and other bodies can’t just do what they want… We don't have a real say on what is going on, so I like that they get a bit of a shake [because of the ECJ ruling].”

[naYoRHa2b]

Don't really care either way anymore

The Premier League, Uefa, FIFA or whoever else runs football aren't actually arsed about the teams and supporters anyway so makes zero difference.

[Fromola]

Let's face it the PL clubs have just been bullied into submission over it. Rightfully so as well (the proposals in 2021 were laughable and they massively fucked themselves for at least a decade on the issue) but they'll all want in on it.

It just shows though the media and your motormouths like Neville can exert influence when they want. When it comes to fan stuff though (and the monstrosity of VAR) they won't rock the boat. They all just do the bidding of the PL, at least until the ESL offers them more money anyway.

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

That ship hasn't just sailed, it's circumnavigated the globe for almost two decades and shows no signs of docking. Abramovic 2003, Glazers 2005, Abu Dhabi 2008, Qatar 2011, Saudi 2021.

The solution, nevertheless, is not more of the same, is it?

Chasing the ESL in the utterly unfounded hope that it will somehow make things better, is - like Brexit - an act of desperation, which is precisely what the bastards pushing for it are counting on. On the other hand, the other bastards, at UEFA and FIFA, are counting on fans preferring the devil they know.

No to the ESL, no to unreformed UEFA and FIFA. They are just two sides of the same shitty coin.

[CHOPPER]

If it somehow reduces the number of games the players play ( non affiliated UEFA tournaments) it may produce a better level of football(almost typed product).

As a customer, I so do want to be entertained and catered for.

[End Product]

Hard to make judgements at the moment, as there is no clear vision for an alternative competition it could be far worse or an improvement the first version was poorly executed.

The new champions league format looks dross and is a huge error.

[Red Beret]

Maybe we'll get lucky. Perhaps City and Newcastle will fuck off to some ESL and leave the PL and CL to the real football clubs?

*Nah, I don't believe it either.

[End Product]

Having now read the super league star league stuff it reads like a shite idea as well, it's about the knockout element that makes it exciting but alas for money and tv guarantees these tournaments always want protracted group stages as is the new champions league format.

[SamLad]

Having now read the super league star league stuff it reads like a shite idea as well, it's about the knockout element that makes it exciting but alas for money and tv guarantees these tournaments always want protracted group stages as is the new champions league format.

not that I really care, but have they said how teams would get into this thing (a) initially or (b) over time?  I think relegation got mentioned.

[End Product]

Initially it will be based on a league performance what that is not clear.

 Then over time you move up and down the mario kart themed leagues due to your performance, entrance into the blue  league (the worst and bitterest league) will be then based on league performance , so if villa say won the league in three years they would go into the blue league rather than the top league. They would have to work their way up. For a side like us to not qualify you would have to have three really bad years to go out of Europe which takes away the peril, they did something similar in Argentina where relegation was based on your average performance over three years River Plate still went down even though the design of it was to prevent that.

It seems a way of taking away the one bad season element for owners( like us last season )to secure regular big money. It does not appeal to a fan but would appeal greatly to an owner of a big club.

[SamLad]

Initially it will be based on a league performance what that is not clear.

 Then over time you move up and down the mario kart themed leagues due to your performance, entrance into the blue  league (the worst and bitterest league) will be then based on league performance , so if villa say won the league in three years they would go into the blue league rather than the top league. They would have to work their way up. For a side like us to not qualify you would have to have three really bad years to go out of Europe which takes away the peril, they did something similar in Argentina where relegation was based on your average performance over three years River Plate still went down even though the design of it was to prevent that.

It seems a way of taking away the one bad season element for owners( like us last season )to secure regular big money. It does not appeal to a fan but would appeal greatly to an owner of a big club.

ah OK - thanks, Product.

so it's basically a setup like the current leagues in England, running parallel to the PL.

like a lot of others, I won't be holding my breath for this to see the light of day.

[End Product]

Yep but two groups of eight with the top four in each going to the quarter final knock outs so 19 games in total with a guarantee of 14 games compared to the potential  13 now and the 17 games of the two group champions league format of the early noughties.

[jillcwhomever]

Has this crap died yet? 

[SamLad]

Has this crap died yet? 

since the announcement yesterday? 

[Fromola]

All this earn it on the pitch shit is nauseating after what they've let City do to the league. Not to mention Chelsea before them (and their 1.5 billion spend in the last year or two) and the Saudis at Newcastle.

Real level playing field. It'll get to the point where the fans won't be arsed to protest it. All the outrage is media led now. The fans revolted over it last time.

[4pool]

No Premier League club will  be allowed to join it anyway.

While this is somewhat true, there would be massive penalties currently to those who would try.

The PL clubs could take another vote in the future to allow clubs to go to the ESL.

[Mighty_Red]

Has this crap died yet? 

Yes, it has died. Despite what A22, Laporte and Perez say, the ESL as a brand died back in April 2021. No amount of court judgements will alter that fact. They could propose the best thought out competition with the best governance and it would still fail as the ESL is now toxic in the eyes of the fans and most clubs. When they announced it back then they did so without all the things that could've led to a successful breakaway competition so there is no way back now.

The only chance of a future breakaway league is via the ECA, or least a prior version of it. Of course, the moment the one snake Agnelli gave up his position as chairman it simply led to a bigger snake taking over and who is now moulding it for Qatari interests. With so much influence over UEFA, they have no need to go against them.

Short of the broadcasting bubble bursting, I can't see a scenario where this situation is fixed either by the governing bodies or the clubs themselves. Hell the PL members are struggling to root out the cancers that plague our football even when it threatens the very same clubs.

The media will not help either, as evidenced with the awards and accolades being handed out to City whilst they are under investigation for the biggest charges of cheating outside of actual match fixing. Sky et al will always come out against change unless it benefits them.

[PeterTheRed ...]

But Peter, your version of a SL simply isn't what is being offered. There's no intention of a redistribution of wealth across leagues or down into grassroots football. None at all. It's utterly naive to think that a bunch of Capitalists give a damn about that. Or about Serbian football, or Scottish football, or pretty much anything outside the major markets. England, Spain, Germany, France, Italy. Done. The rest, just as irrelevant and relatively poor as now (if not more so), but with their national leagues made less relevant.

There's no intention to exclude state owned clubs (they bring loooaaaaaads of cash), or punish them properly (just pay us, dudes), or reinvigorate European football. They will succeed in stopping the PL dominating, I suppose, but by ending national leagues as a thing.

This ESL is bullshit. We need good governance, by elected people, with proper oversight, instead of shady, self-serving oligarchies led by soulless parasites like Ceferin and Infantino. The ESL offers no hope for that whatsoever. It doesn't seek to transfer power to the communities and fanbases of football clubs, just from one set of greedy men to another. It's pointless, at best, and destructive to historical football cultures across Europe. We can do better, surely?

That is why there won't be a Super League. As long as the greedy bastards don't understand what it is about, they will be slaughtering each other, and the game will suffer ...

[Suareznumber7]

An ESL would not have changed any of those things though. It would be akin to jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

At least with the football authorities, there is a way to hold them to account. Handing the game over to A22 Perez, the Glazers and Kroenke at all ends that forever.

It would be like voting for a dictator because you don't like the party in power. At least with the likes of the Premier League, UEFA and FIFA etc there is a mechanism to vote them out.

Yes, it's great how they've punished City with those 115 charges isn't it?  Oh, wait......

[Eeyore]

Yes, it's great how they've punished City with those 115 charges isn't it?  Oh, wait......

The irony is that this season looks like it may well be really competitive because City are being forced to balance the books.

[Kopenhagen]

It’s us, isn’t it. 

[SamLad]

It’s us, isn’t it. 

why jump to that conclusion?  could be anyone, doesn't even say a PL team.

[Avens]

That is why there won't be a Super League. As long as the greedy bastards don't understand what it is about, they will be slaughtering each other, and the game will suffer ...

So Peter, on this basis you must understand that people who are anti-ESL aren't necessarily pro-UEFA/FIFA? The current system is fucked and needs fixing, doesn't mean we need something even worse.

[John C]

Don't really care either way anymore
The Premier League, Uefa, FIFA or whoever else runs football aren't actually arsed about the teams and supporters anyway so makes zero difference.

I know what you mean mate but I think there's three battles to be had.
Firstly those mentioned can't have a monopoly, I'm fucking delighted about that.
Secondly, the fans battle is yet to evolve. The entire (non Saudi) global football gig is yet to be challenged. Fans have never had a coordinated effort to kick sponsors in the bollocks with Choppers clown shoes. Nationally or internationally. Can you imagine a situation when nobody buys Heineken for a month, who'll fucking suddenly listen then?
Will fans support groups finally get a seat at the table. And if they don't a simple internationally coordinated effort to attack the next sponsor will do it.
Football fans are the largest and most powerful union on the planet, but that power is not going to be tapped for a long time yet. A relentless boycott of a sponsor would change the situation unrecognisably. If and when, but it could.
Thirdly, the players. They have little say in anything. The number of fixtures, KO times, and most of all the continuous changes of rules of the game they master. One day that sufferance will also explode. Players should/could also recognise their ability to clean the game that frustrates punters. Stop diving and being c*nts, leave the likes of Kane, Young and Grealish out on their own.

I know that's all a bit random. Football has survived everything over the last 30 years, particularly the 2008 crash and Covid. It now faces more riches from the Saudi input so that could delay desired change for 20 years. Or it could accelerate player greed within 5 years making the game unattractive to most of us but completely acceptable across the world.

[PeterTheRed ...]

So Peter, on this basis you must understand that people who are anti-ESL aren't necessarily pro-UEFA/FIFA? The current system is fucked and needs fixing, doesn't mean we need something even worse.

A proper NFL-style ESL, without UEFA, FIFA and the state owned clubs, is not something worse. It is something much better ...

[kavah]

You know what I'd do -
Revert Champions league to the current season format.

Start a new competition, lets call it Cup of Europe (Tentative name, copyright pending)

Across Europe, there are 730 top division teams including all countries.
Have a simple single legged knockout competition where every single top division team is qualified and invited.
The clubs playing in any of the 3 UEFA competitions get a bye to the 4th or 5th round. I'd guess you'd need maybe 10 or 11 rounds in total to finish the competition. You can even schedule the last 3 rounds (QF onwards) in a neutral city to take place in a European football celebration week. It'd be the most inclusive competition in all of european history with the possibility of seeing all sorts of fixtures that otherwise would never happen in a competitive space. It'll affect the season calendar no worse than any of the current proposals and it'll be a great competition for viewers.
These are the sort of ideas I'd love to get behind. You want more inclusivity and less gatekeeping.

that's a great idea

[Eeyore]

A proper NFL-style ESL, without UEFA, FIFA and the state owned clubs, is not something worse. It is something much better ...

So your idea of panacea is a 32 team league in which teams take their turn to win. Whilst the rest of the sport is subservient feeder teams who are just there to provide a way of making the league artificially competitive. 

[kesey]

Has the penny started to drop with youse yet ?  It's not just footie either . You mean absolutely fuck all to them !

[Avens]

A proper NFL-style ESL, without UEFA, FIFA and the state owned clubs, is not something worse. It is something much better ...

Is that what's being proposed with the ESL?

[Historical Fool]

Is that what's being proposed with the ESL?

I don’t think so Lobo, but it may ultimately be what it becomes in due course …

[Historical Fool]

You know what I'd do -
Revert Champions league to the current season format.

Start a new competition, lets call it Cup of Europe (Tentative name, copyright pending)

Across Europe, there are 730 top division teams including all countries.
Have a simple single legged knockout competition where every single top division team is qualified and invited.
The clubs playing in any of the 3 UEFA competitions get a bye to the 4th or 5th round. I'd guess you'd need maybe 10 or 11 rounds in total to finish the competition. You can even schedule the last 3 rounds (QF onwards) in a neutral city to take place in a European football celebration week. It'd be the most inclusive competition in all of european history with the possibility of seeing all sorts of fixtures that otherwise would never happen in a competitive space. It'll affect the season calendar no worse than any of the current proposals and it'll be a great competition for viewers.
These are the sort of ideas I'd love to get behind. You want more inclusivity and less gatekeeping.

You’d have to scrap the league cup, FA cup, or both. Players should not be expected to play upwards of 75 matches a season, that’s just not realistic …