Author Topic: Climate Emergency is already here. How much worse it gets is still up to us (?)  (Read 375074 times)

Offline Red-Soldier

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It's great to hear, too. This has got to be the way forward while vested interests get to dictate so much at the global, political level. Provide solutions locally, highlighting co-benefits, and I reckon most people will join in.

There are lots of good people and groups doing some fantastic work, at a local level.  This includes villages, towns and cities.  There's a group called C40 - leading the way on sustainable cities:

https://www.c40.org/

Until the Tories are binned, nothing will happen from national government.  However, that doesn't mean that it's all doom and gloom, and that there's no positive action being taken at the moment.

Positive change is happening from the bottom up.

Offline Nobby Reserve

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COP is a bit like FIFA these days, loads of overpaid people using millions of gallons of jet fuel to agree nothing


With the dirty, evil hand of the oil dictatorships using corrupt scumbag officials to get their own way.

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Offline BarryCrocker

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Sort of climate related as it's about how we keep shitting on this place we call home.

Quote
Netherlands warns children not to swallow sea foam over PFAS concerns
‘Forever chemicals’ at Dutch resorts comparable to high concentrations detected along Belgian coast, study finds

The Dutch government has warned people to stop children and pets swallowing foam at the seaside, after a study showed “forever chemicals” were concentrated in the spume.

After research into foam at the Belgian seaside showing a concentration of per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances (PFAS) – used widely for their waterproofing qualities but difficult to destroy – the Dutch public health institute RIVM measured the coast in Zeeland, north and south Holland in April and August.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/dec/13/netherlands-children-not-swallow-sea-foam-pfas-concerns

It found that, although not as marked as the “very high concentrations” discovered by the Flemish Institute for Technological Research in one sample from the Belgian resort of Knokke, sea foam at popular Dutch resorts including Egmond, Katwijk, Scheveningen, T
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Offline Ma Vie en Rouge

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Well yeah, it's not just a "climate emergency" (as if we could get warming below 1.5 degrees (or 2 or 3 or whatever insane measure they come up with next, and then things would be relatively fine). It's an ecosystem emergency, the Anthropocene, the collapse of biospheres all across the planet due to human activity. All the ways we are damaging the world around us (and therefore... us!) This is why the endless focus on carbon emissions and net zero and blah blah blah is not the right way forward. If we generate "clean" energy and carry on ripping the natural world apart as a result to get at resources for the machine economy so that everyone can pretend there's no end to said resources for a bit longer... well, it's hard to be excited about.

Offline GreatEx

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Let's face it, the only way the human race survives is if the next pandemic or a global conflict wipes out 90%+ of the world's human population. We've demonstrated with smallpox and COVID that we're ingenious enough to beat nature's defences, so war it is. I expect it'll happen when migration escalates from disorganised waves of individuals exploited by people smugglers, to large-scale movements organised by governments with no other choice. A few months ago Australia cut a deal with Tuvalu that gives everyone in that nation the right to claim asylum in Australia when their country sinks. That's feasible and a nice feel-good story for a nation of 30,000 or whatever it is, but what do we do when Bangladesh becomes uninhabitable (if it isn't already)? All your mini-Hitlers winning elections in Europe and South America (and maybe USA next year) right now aren't going to save you when entire nations with nothing to lose are on the move. Ironically, we'll probably wish we'd let COVID rip as the alt-right and libertarians demanded.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2023, 11:47:22 pm by GreatEx »

Offline Black Bull Nova

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Let's face it, the only way the human race survives is if the next pandemic or a global conflict wipes out 90%+ of the world's human population. We've demonstrated with smallpox and COVID that we're ingenious enough to beat nature's defences, so war it is. I expect it'll happen when migration escalates from disorganised waves of individuals exploited by people smugglers, to large-scale movements organised by governments with no other choice. A few months ago Australia cut a deal with Tuvalu that gives everyone in that nation the right to claim asylum in Australia when their country sinks. That's feasible and a nice feel-good story for a nation of 30,000 or whatever it is, but what do we do when Bangladesh becomes uninhabitable (if it isn't already)? All your mini-Hitlers winning elections in Europe and South America (and maybe USA next year) right now aren't going to save you when entire nations with nothing to lose are on the move. Ironically, we'll probably wish we'd let COVID rip as the alt-right and libertarians demanded.
Humanity will survive, just not in it's current form. People think of extinction or something dramatic, more likely is increasing migration, starvation, conflict and disease. There is a self stabilising mechanism built in to nature and this works through time rather than sudden seismic shifts.
If parts of the earth become uninhabitable others will prosper, those with money will buy their place on the life raft (that's why we cannot make progress, the rich and powerful do not face the same threat as those around the equator).

Warmth=Migration=Conflict, it's happening now.
aarf, aarf, aarf.

Offline GreatEx

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Agreed - rather than "the only way the human race survives" what I really meant was "the human population will probably plummet by 90%+ in the next century or two because..."

Offline jillcwhomever

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This report is an absolute disgrace to be honest the decline in flooding defences, not exactly a surprise when you consider whose in power but yet more evidence of how they have allowed vital issues to get worse.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/jan/01/growing-proportion-of-englands-flood-defences-in-disrepair-analysis-finds
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Offline thejbs

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Humanity will survive, just not in it's current form. People think of extinction or something dramatic, more likely is increasing migration, starvation, conflict and disease. There is a self stabilising mechanism built in to nature and this works through time rather than sudden seismic shifts.
If parts of the earth become uninhabitable others will prosper, those with money will buy their place on the life raft (that's why we cannot make progress, the rich and powerful do not face the same threat as those around the equator).

Warmth=Migration=Conflict, it's happening now.

The imagined mass migration because of climate may not be a given. Only those with means will be able to migrate. The vast majority will stay and suffer.

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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The imagined mass migration because of climate may not be a given. Only those with means will be able to migrate. The vast majority will stay and suffer.
... and die. I think most people just have no understanding (or desire to learn) that climate change will now almost certainly result in the deaths of hundreds of millions (or perhaps even billions) of people. The changes are coming even faster than the most dire of predictions. There is no time to adjust, and no space for those most affected to relocate.
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Offline Red-Soldier

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... and die. I think most people just have no understanding (or desire to learn) that climate change will now almost certainly result in the deaths of hundreds of millions (or perhaps even billions) of people. The changes are coming even faster than the most dire of predictions. There is no time to adjust, and no space for those most affected to relocate.

It's okay though, JC, as the rich and the powerful, will be fine  ;)

Offline Sudden Death Draft Loser

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The changes are coming even faster than the most dire of predictions. There is no time to adjust, and no space for those most affected to relocate.

This.

It's effectively all over, and we're deluded if we think driving a few less miles/not flying, recycling a bit more is going to save us.

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Offline thejbs

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Third wettest year ever recorded in NI. This is a sign of how things will be in my part of the world. Flooding rather than baking.

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Global warming my arse, we've just had a cold weather warning.
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Offline reddebs

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My sister visited on Thursday and was taking the piss about us just having the hottest "summer" on record despite me correcting her everytime she said it, that it was the highest average temperatures over the whole year, not the hottest summer!!


Offline GreatEx

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The predicted niño event this Aussie summer hasn't quite materialised (a few 38-42 degree days in Sydney in December with hot dry winds, but rainy over Xmas and only 25-30 degrees since then) so of course conservative commentators have concluded that climate change isn't happening and the UN fear campaign has been debunked. That's a relief.

Offline Indomitable_Carp

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This.

It's effectively all over, and we're deluded if we think driving a few less miles/not flying, recycling a bit more is going to save us.

I found this article a comforting read, from a climate data scientist.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/jan/02/hannah-ritchie-not-the-end-of-the-world-extract-climate-crisis


Third wettest year ever recorded in NI. This is a sign of how things will be in my part of the world. Flooding rather than baking.

Most likely a bit of both.


Offline jillcwhomever

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Third wettest year ever recorded in NI. This is a sign of how things will be in my part of the world. Flooding rather than baking.

Flooding will become a huge issue this year especially with the defences pretty much useless due to the usual reasons.
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Online Gili Gulu

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This.

It's effectively all over, and we're deluded if we think driving a few less miles/not flying, recycling a bit more is going to save us.



<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/pNYp6oc37ds" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/pNYp6oc37ds</a>

It's mind blowing to me that we are burning fossil fuels to transport items that consist mostly of water, to places where there already is water. Bottled water being the most egregious.

But fizzy drinks. Just manufacture them as a powder, have the customer add the water.
Guinness is (was?) transported internationally as a thick syrup and them diluted, almost no-one does this I think?
« Last Edit: January 7, 2024, 01:06:06 pm by Gili Gulu »
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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It's mind blowing to me that we are burning fossil fuels to transport items that consist mostly of water, to places where there already is water. Bottled water being the most egregious.

But fizzy drinks. Just manufacture them as a powder, have the customer add the water.
Guinness is (was?) transported internationally as a thick syrup and them diluted, almost no-one does this I think?
Yeah. Internationalisation has a lot to answer for. Where possible, raw materials should be sourced locally, and manufacturing should normally occur locally too. And useless products should be outlawed (or at least made prohibitively expensive through taxation - your bottled water example being one of the most obvious).
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Offline thejbs

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I found this article a comforting read, from a climate data scientist.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/jan/02/hannah-ritchie-not-the-end-of-the-world-extract-climate-crisis


Most likely a bit of both.

Ireland is unlikely to face drought and crippling heatwaves like many parts of Europe. But we will have an increase in rainfall which can be just as damaging. I’ve a mate who is a lecturer in climatology and he said that flooding will be an issue here along with the sea rise.

Online Gili Gulu

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Ireland is unlikely to face drought and crippling heatwaves like many parts of Europe. But we will have an increase in rainfall which can be just as damaging. I’ve a mate who is a lecturer in climatology and he said that flooding will be an issue here along with the sea rise.

It's the migration part that's going to be a massive issue to those like Ireland not hit by storms, wildfires etc.
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Offline thejbs

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At some point, yes. But it’ll be more to do with social unrest than Ireland being too full. The population is still lower today than pre-famine times. Still, the housing problems will be exacerbated by more immigration - not just from uninhabitable countries, but also the uk.

Offline BarryCrocker

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<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/pNYp6oc37ds" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/pNYp6oc37ds</a>

But fizzy drinks. Just manufacture them as a powder, have the customer add the water.
Guinness is (was?) transported internationally as a thick syrup and them diluted, almost no-one does this I think?

All Guinness Draft Stout is still made in Dublin. The syrup is only used for Foreign Extra Stout which is bottled in local markets around the world.
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Offline Mister Flip Flop

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Nothing to see here, move along move along

https://www.reuters.com/graphics/CLIMATE-UN/WEATHER-EXTREMES/zdvxrmeakvx/

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Soccer - let's face it, its not really about a game of ball anymore is it?

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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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would rather have a wank wearing a barb wire glove
If you're chasing thrills, try a bit of auto-asphyxiation with a poppers-soaked orange in your gob.

Offline thejbs

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Ironically, both those places will be among the first to experience the worse effects of Climate Change.

Offline jillcwhomever

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Offline thejbs

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Farmers protesting against environmental legislation across Europe. Funny how farmers are able to block roads but when climate protesters do it the police drag them away.

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Well. Sabine Hossenfelder has posted a new video on climate change. She's more from the school of 'it will be OK, don't worry about it'. However, she is now really worried because of some recent developments in modelling. I was already concerned about where the climate is heading. But if she is worried, I am worried. She's a physicist and very levelheaded in her reporting on science.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/4S9sDyooxf4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/4S9sDyooxf4</a>
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Offline Nobby Reserve

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Bitcoin (and other crypto) mining uses up to 2.3% of the entire amount of electricity generated in the US

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61364


Every ChatGPT query uses between 10x and 100x more energy than a standard Google search, and AI in general is a huge user of electricity.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2023/11/09/equinix-and-vertiv-stock-prices-could-rise-on-generative-ais-energy-use/?sh=28027a4a6685


BP have announced they are increasing fossil fuel (gas) production to cover the increased demand for electricity, and that this will be repeated across the globe as AI increases

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/02/06/bp-profits-halve-oil-prices-fall-energy/



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Online duvva 💅

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-68110310

A good day to row back on your environmental pledges…

Not sure tactical voting is gonna help with this. Voting Labour or Tory is just a waste of what little time there is left
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Offline jillcwhomever

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-68110310

A good day to row back on your environmental pledges…

Not sure tactical voting is gonna help with this. Voting Labour or Tory is just a waste of what little time there is left

Sadly none of the big parties are interested in doing anything about the planet, it's something which gets completed thrown to the back of queue, all the while it gets ever worse. In the years to come it will be a huge black mark against those in power, that this was ignored for as long as it has been.
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Sadly none of the big parties are interested in doing anything about the planet, it's something which gets completed thrown to the back of queue, all the while it gets ever worse. In the years to come it will be a huge black mark against those in power, that this was ignored for as long as it has been.
Thing is how many years to come are there for the majority of the human race? Can’t moan and point the finger at anyone if we’re all dead.

A vote for either party is like voting for our own death and the deaths of everyone we care about
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Offline jillcwhomever

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Thing is how many years to come are there for the majority of the human race? Can’t moan and point the finger at anyone if we’re all dead.

A vote for either party is like voting for our own death and the deaths of everyone we care about

I don't disagree, mate.
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I don't disagree, mate.
Depressing isn’t it
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Offline jillcwhomever

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Depressing isn’t it

Absolutely. It's been depressing since bloody Brexit watching endless protection being undone, when it had taken years to get there in the first place. The Government is now allowing farmers to spray their crops with pesticides that will wipe out thousands more bees, we're just walking to disaster at the moment.
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Sadly none of the big parties are interested in doing anything about the planet, it's something which gets completed thrown to the back of queue, all the while it gets ever worse. In the years to come it will be a huge black mark against those in power, that this was ignored for as long as it has been.

Why do people say 'the planet' when talking about the issues of climate change?

The planet and life overall is fine. We live in a goldilocks zone and once mankind has been dead and gone, the planet can survive anything - even if it got hit by something like Mars again, the past shows us that even being ripped to pieces like that had no effect on current life or 'the planet'

It should be posed as 'saving humanity' - although I think even parts of humanity will easily survive - it's just the other x billion that won't.
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Offline jillcwhomever

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Why do people say 'the planet' when talking about the issues of climate change?

The planet and life overall is fine. We live in a goldilocks zone and once mankind has been dead and gone, the planet can survive anything - even if it got hit by something like Mars again, the past shows us that even being ripped to pieces like that had no effect on current life or 'the planet'

You are talking tripe the planet is not fine and neither is wildlife in this country. We have one of the worst records for protecting wildlife in the entire world. Try reading other threads and learning about what is going on, rather than ranting endlessly about how everything is fine.
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