Topic: PL: Liverpool 0 v 1 Brighton Alzate 55’

[Bjornar]

There's not much difference between players in the premier League.
We talk about pace, passing, skills etc, but that's not really it.
The best players are those who respond positively to pressure.
And pressure in football, in sport, are crowds.
50,000 people in the last 15 minutes of that game urging us, howling at them, the game is different.
We pick players who respond to that crowd.

To put it another way, pick your best live bands, Led Zeppelin, The Clash, and put it on Zoom, are they as good? Could Chuck Berry be Chuck Berry on Zoom?
Centre Court, Wimbledon, take out the crowd, and do the same players win.

Without crowds football looks like practice matches. The extra bit just isn't there.

What's boxing like without a crowd? All those great fights don't happen. Not because the boxers are less good without a great. But because atmosphere is a real phenomenon, and the talents that respond to that phenomenon become those sportsmen we are in awe of, it's them we call legendary.

Without crowds you buy a whole different set of players.

Adding to that, think the difference even more is we have lost the advantage of being the best organized and well-drilled team this year because noone has had the time and we've had new injuries all the time anyway. Especially in an attacking sense, think lots of coaches can get teams get defensively organized, but Klopp and Guardiola are on their own in doing that when it comes to attacking play.

[NarutoReds]

Looked like Brighton's midfield line was being engineered to be a proper defensive wall shielding their back four.

Just my opinion though. Maybe I am wrong.

[idontknow]

Very true.

Also might sound mad but defences can be more organised because, simply put, they can hear each other

How many winners have we got where the full back couldnt hear his centre half screaming at him thatvsomeones over there shoulder or to stay in a certain position etc

Alvin Martin was distracted by 'an amusing family anecdote' aimed his way from the Kop at a late Liverpool corner when his West Ham team were drawing, and we scored to win. 

Not having Anfield and the traveling Kop is another major loss for this season.

[idontknow]

Adding to that, think the difference even more is we have lost the advantage of being the best organized and well-drilled team this year because noone has had the time and we've had new injuries all the time anyway. Especially in an attacking sense, think lots of coaches can get teams get defensively organized, but Klopp and Guardiola are on their own in doing that when it comes to attacking play.

That's a very good point. The reason some teams excel over others is being capable of playing right on the line of the laws.
Most teams are good.
But again like tennis, some players can consistently hit that ball right to the limits of the line, in by a fraction every time.
We call it genius.
But there's a lot of hard work behind that genius.
This season we have not had that time for the hard work.

[Kopenhagen]

Anyone arsed? Like really?

We made it easy for them, but Brighton were deserving of at least a point (not that they did anything revolutionary or unique). A win doesn't do them any disservice. The team has just been so wrecked with injuries that you really can't compare the patterns of play to 2018-19 or 2019-20. It's a shame, but as people have said here already, it started at The Pit. The mentality isn't there anymore either; the players seem resigned to our fate this season, and while it likely won't get as bad as missing CL, I don't think we have enough to talk about titles. A CL run may be on the cards, depending on the Leipzig games and favourable draws, etc. Otherwise, I can't see us doing much from now until the end of the season.

We might just have to shake things up and throw our new CBs into the mix with Fabinho pretty soon. It's horrible that Matip is down and Fabinho can't move back to midfield, because I don't think we can continue with the midfield balance as it currently is. It's a gamble we might have to take, if we're looking to get any sort of consistent form. And Thiago's role in the midfield now isn't what we bought him for either. The players are still adjusting to his style, but again, it's hard to adjust when there's so much chopping and changing because of injuries. You realistically can't develop consistent patterns of play in this scenario, and this is why the manager wants - and needs! - time on the training ground with the whole team.

Kelleher had a great game. I really didn't think he had these level of performances in him, and that's nice to see; he seems to be a genuinely reliable keeper and probably will have a good PL career somewhere. Phillips too will probably be sold at a profit after his recent performances. I know he doesn't fit our style but he's done as much as he realistically can do.

RE: the goal - the cross should never have been allowed in the first place. Whoever was marking the Brighton players - I think it was Bobby - deserves a bollocking for that one.

Also, no crowd is always going to kill us in these situations where we go down 0-1 at Anfield.

Anyway, those are my disparate thoughts. I can't really get particularly upset because I knew we'd have a few more of these in our locker, despite a couple good wins on the bounce. Overall, I'd suggest everyone temper their expectations.

[GreatEx]

Kelleher had a great game. I really didn't think he had these level of performances in him, and that's nice to see; he seems to be a genuinely reliable keeper and probably will have a good PL career somewhere.

Hopefully with us! I think we should endeavour to keep a reliable backup GK on our books, especially with Ali's attendance record possibly being the worst of all PL #1s the last couple of seasons - Caomhin must know he's going to get more experience here than any other top side, and he'd be unlikely to get a move to a top 6 club without starting at a lower level first. Best for all parties that he stays, in my completely objective and unbiased opinion.

Agreed on Nat, I think he's putting himself in the window for a PL career at one of the many teams that employ a deep line, and good for him. He'd have likely been lost to the lower leagues without this exposure.

[Gerry Attrick]

Used to be fun when we’d win football matches. I thought we were showing signs of a revival but that was an awful performance. Need to secure top 4 now.

[Cormack Snr]

I remember that one too. 

I was there too, remember they gave us a printed team sheet to make it legal because it was a Sunday. How things have changed,,

[MdArshad]

Title dreams are over.  Secure top 4 and go all out in Europe. 7th European Cup will be brilliant to end this extremely troubled season.

[killer-heels]

If there was one thing Klopp did wrong yesterday then that was not playing Jones. Milner looked tired and lethargic and whilst Jones doesnt equal a win, he did look fresh these past two games. Wijnaldum looked gone as well but I think people would have been annoyed if Thiago went back into the 6.

We needed our fringe players to step up and again we saw that whilst Shaqiri can provide some amazing moments, why he isnt trusted to play regularly for us. There was always this worry about the drop off in levels if certain players were out and this year its been quite apparent. I am not going to say that we have carried some players these past few years because those players contributed in some huge games but they are not good enough for an extended run.

Ultimately, the injuries are to blame for this season. We have lost far too many of our best players and yesterday was a classic example of these injuries preventing us from rotating effectively. Our centreback options were Van Dijk, Fabinho, Gomez and Matip and if anyone of those is available, Henderson is back in midfield and Wijnaldum gets a rest.  As it stands we are having to play Robertson, Trent, Wijnaldum, Henderson, Thiago and Salah every game and at some point one will break.

I fully believe that in the summer that we have to shift a lot of players. The market is going to be depressed for years so rather than losing players for free, lets start the work now. If anything we need to get to a smaller squad that Klopp trusts. We have players like Tsimikas available who isnt playing that Klopp doesnt yet trust. Id rather not have a left back cover and just play Milner there.

[Nick110581]

If there was one thing Klopp did wrong yesterday then that was not playing Jones. Milner looked tired and lethargic and whilst Jones doesnt equal a win, he did look fresh these past two games. Wijnaldum looked gone as well but I think people would have been annoyed if Thiago went back into the 6.

We needed our fringe players to step up and again we saw that whilst Shaqiri can provide some amazing moments, why he isnt trusted to play regularly for us. There was always this worry about the drop off in levels if certain players were out and this year its been quite apparent. I am not going to say that we have carried some players these past few years because those players contributed in some huge games but they are not good enough for an extended run.

Ultimately, the injuries are to blame for this season. We have lost far too many of our best players and yesterday was a classic example of these injuries preventing us from rotating effectively. Our centreback options were Van Dijk, Fabinho, Gomez and Matip and if anyone of those is available, Henderson is back in midfield and Wijnaldum gets a rest.

As it stands we are having to play Robertson, Trent, Wijnaldum, Henderson, Thiago and Salah every game and at some point one will break.

Jones should have started ahead of Milner.

The two FBs have to be in the red zone. It’s mad they keep playing every match.

Horrible result after two huge positives.

[killer-heels]

Jones should have started ahead of Milner.

The two FBs have to be in the red zone. It’s mad they keep playing every match.

Horrible result after two huge positives.

I dont think Klopp feels like he has a choice. I dont think he would be confident of resting Trent and Robertson when we have yet another defensive combination at the back and the fact that Tsimikas has been injured means he hasnt been allowed to build up some trust.

Also lets be honest if we rotated out any of them yesterday then the fan base would have lost their shit. I am all for rotating loads but when there are areas in the field that are just patched up then its difficult to rotate in others. Did we ever see a scenario where our centrebacks and keeper would be Kelleher, Henderson and Phillips?

[Nick110581]

I dont think Klopp feels like he has a choice. I dont think he would be confident of resting Trent and Robertson when we have yet another defensive combination at the back and the fact that Tsimikas has been injured means he hasnt been allowed to build up some trust.

Also lets be honest if we rotated out any of them yesterday then the fan base would have lost their shit. I am all for rotating loads but when there are areas in the field that are just patched up then its difficult to rotate in others. Did we ever see a scenario where our centrebacks and keeper would be Kelleher, Henderson and Phillips?

That’s a fair point on FBs but they must be close to burn out.

We had zero answers last night which is concerning ahead of a tough month.

[killer-heels]

That’s a fair point on FBs but they must be close to burn out.

We had zero answers last night which is concerning ahead of a tough month.

They probably are burnt out. Less so Trent but Robertson absolutely is as he is not affecting the play in an attacking sense at all. I dont think he has played well in a while and that whole left side has been decimated with rotating midfielders at centreback and Mane being off form.

I am already worried about Thiago and the minutes he is playing. Unfortunately it goes back to the point of injuries hampering our ability to rotate.

[Nick110581]

They probably are burnt out. Less so Trent but Robertson absolutely is as he is not affecting the play in an attacking sense at all. I dont think he has played well in a while and that whole left side has been decimated with rotating midfielders at centreback and Mane being off form.

I am already worried about Thiago and the minutes he is playing. Unfortunately it goes back to the point of injuries hampering our ability to rotate.

Zero reason not to start Jones yesterday though.

[killer-heels]

Zero reason not to start Jones yesterday though.

Yes i agree he should have started Jones but Klopp mentioned it yesterday that he is trying to keep a rhythm and if he makes too many changes that its difficult to do. We beat Spurs well and then in subsequent matches we lose Alisson and Mane. Clearly that has an affect on the players but that must scramble the managers head as well.

[Nick110581]

Yes i agree he should have started Jones but Klopp mentioned it yesterday that he is trying to keep a rhythm and if he makes too many changes that its difficult to do. We beat Spurs well and then in subsequent matches we lose Alisson and Mane. Clearly that has an affect on the players but that must scramble the managers head as well.

Jones offers more against a low block side especially when his driving run created the first on Sunday

He knew Mane was out ahead of last night and stand in GK was excellent

[killer-heels]

Jones offers more against a low block side especially when his driving run created the first on Sunday

He knew Mane was out ahead of last night and stand in GK was excellent

Yes but thats after the fact. Maybe Klopp is concerned about yet more change after Alisson is out that he feels he needs more of a solid base to work from. Maybe he thought Firmino, Trent and Salah would continue their form and their link up with Thiago would win them the game, therefore keep some leadership in there with Milner.

The problem is that we are nitpicking each game that one selection is possibly changing a result speaks volumes. We have very little options really available to us.

[Nick110581]

Yes but thats after the fact. Maybe Klopp is concerned about yet more change after Alisson is out that he feels he needs more of a solid base to work from. Maybe he thought Firmino, Trent and Salah would continue their form and their link up with Thiago would win them the game, therefore keep some leadership in there with Milner.

The problem is that we are nitpicking each game that one selection is possibly changing a result speaks volumes. We have very little options really available to us.

Yep. Decimated by injuries continually.

We may miss top 4 although we should have enough.

[jillcwhomever]

I actually think we will raise ourselves against City, it's against the low block teams that we have the problem with especially at Anfield with no crowd backing us. Teams that actually play football, don't really fear any of them.

[Nick110581]

I actually think we will raise ourselves against City, it's against the low block teams that we have the problem with especially at Anfield with no crowd backing us. Teams that actually play football, don't really fear any of them.

We might do if Fab and Mane are available but still a tough against a side that aren’t even given up chances.

Brighton throughly deserved the three points. They defended with ease bar the early Mo chance.

People dismissed them too easily. They have 10 from 12 points now and only one goal conceded in five now.

[MNAA]

I think there are a few factors at hand here:

1) The lack of fans in the ground for the players to feed off is definitely having an effect.

2) Injuries. Obviously.

3) Poor officiating of games going against us far too often.

4) The belief that if we keep going, we'll eventually find a way to break down these stubborn low block sides like we did last season has gone.

5) Fatigue/burn-out after going full pelt in the league for the past 3-4 years.

6) A little bit of the players feeling sorry for themselves with all this sickness and injury within the squad. I can imagine a lot of the players were quietly thinking " FFS, we just can't catch a break" or "FFS, not again" when they heard the news Alisson would not start yesterday, for instance.

This was brilliants summarized by Lycan. And all these factors are now impacting the team/players physically and mentally. And we are not even talking about the impact of the pandemic, new normal and the world is now a different place to the human beings in Klopp, the coaches and the players. Yes ... other teams are impacted too. But we are not other teams ... we are the defending champion and the expectations our fans are sky high

[RedKenWah]

Brighton had a game plan and it worked. They were more than happy for us to have the ball and they’d have everyone back but were very quick at breaking when they won the ball back either by good defending or by us gifting them the ball when we tried to put in a cross with their giants of defenders...

We as a side have to be a lot smarter when playing oppositions, I mean seriously we just throw crosses into the box when our tallest player comes to one of their defenders chest height... that’s the shit that annoys me. They have the tallest full back who has zero pace and we don’t use Salah nearly enough to exploit that more... pfft

Sarah’s chance he should have taken in all honesty but to just lay the blame on him is unfair, we had plenty of possession but were utterly shit at using it.

As for no crowds yes it does have an impact for sure but let’s be honest we have been playing footy for a fair while under these circumstances so not being funny but we need to be getting used to this until the world goes back to some form of normality.

[NarutoReds]

Might sound crazy, but watching the game alone last night in the living room, came out from my mouth, "We could win this if the sub is Minamino in the place of Origi"...

Hahahahaha!!! Yeah yeah, it's daft, but I miss him already.    Love all of our players. Hope Origi is going to score goal in the next game if he is on. I want him to succeed here as he is our hero though.

[FLRed67]

Beyond predictable, at this point. Defend deep, and try to nick goal. Everyone has the recipe.

We need midfielders who can dribble, and carry the ball into danger. Players who can shoot from outside the box, and trouble the goalkeeper. Draw fouls and score from free-kicks

We need wingers who can get to the bye-line, get the opposition facing their own goal.

We need a proper centre-forward who can get on the end of crosses, score with headers, hold up the ball with back to goal.

Major re-think and re-build needed.

[kezzy]

Poor showing all round last night.  Kelleher, Phillips and Henderson all had a go but I don’t think anyone else that started that game can be exempt from criticism.  Shaqiri was none existent throughout and Firmino was back to his frustrating best of constantly giving the ball away. 

Also I thought Jones deserved a start after his impact against West Ham so I thought it was bizarre bringing Origi and Ox on before him.  They have no impact whatsoever whenever they are brought on and I’d genuinely rather have Harvey Elliot back from Blackburn to use as an impact sub than either of them two. 

Looking forward we need to get Alisson, Fabinho, Keita, Mane and Jota fit for the Leipzig games and try and get Kabak up to speed as quickly as possible so that we can put Henderson and Fabinho back in midfield.  Anyway onwards and upwards I suppose. 

[yellsub66]

Very dissapointing result, but not a shock. Look at the league this season, it is all over the place. Look at Utd losing at home to a bottom of the table side with single figure points and then hammering Saints 9-0. Football is a spectator sport. They should just close it down until this pandemic is sorted.

[Lofty Ambitions]

Having slept on this, can't be arsed really, had the chances, did not make them count. Happens, especially as the tiredness kicks in. Onto next one. I guess top four is what we should aim this season, with a proper challenge for the CL crown.

[liverbloke]

i'm not going to knock the players because they tried their best but it was a piss poor performance

and before people say 'they had 10 behind the ball' or 'they played to defend'

well fuck me! a lower team struggling tos urvive playing the champions away what the fuck would you do!

and in layman's terms, if they put 10 behind the ball then we put 10 in front of it

the boss had plenty of time to sort tactics and play and positions etc so it's got to come to how the players gel together

they train with each other so i don't know why sometimes it just doesn't happen

and on that point - yes, sometimes it just doesn't happen but unfortunately that's happening too many times (it mightn't be a 'lot' but you only need to play poorly in so many games to fall behind in a title chase)

i think that it's glaringly obvious that it's the middle of the park that's seems to be unbalanced

as good as they are sometimes it looks disjointed and if nobody is feeding the forwards then we have to ask why

and again, i'm only addressing the poor games as it's these games that we need to win - fucking hell at home to brighton!

i think we need to bolster the squad in midfield

thiago is great but we need hendo and fab back in there and we also need players who are going to dazzle - gini has this in him but he doesn't do the final ball often enough for me and shaq looked like he didn't know where he was supposed to be playing last night (i don't think i knew where he was supposed to be playing) and i'll give curtis some slack because of his age

so overall - they tried their best but it just wasn't good enough in a game that we should have won and we should not excuse it because of injuries or the fact that they scored a fucking goal wha?

shit game so onto the next

[lukeb1981]

And United

But That’s not what we or FSG are. We either expect them to suddenly start dragging £70m for a player or we understand that’s how it is.

And we still won the league and champions league

It’s pretty mental when you think about it. We’ve completely embarrassed them both

We did but its not sustainable , you can have a few good seasons on a paper thin squad but when the wheels fall off and your fringe players are not good enough then you have a season like this.Shaq , OX and Origi offer us noting and need to be shipped out .For Klopps team to work you need hungry players what we are seeing now is players pulling out of 50/50 or making no impact when they come on ,one point yesterday summed it up last night when we were chasing the game Ox pass the ball to Henderson in our own half on a break then just stopped dead and let Henderson drive forward and he just stood there no driving on with him ,I heard Henderson a number of times shouting at Shaq to fucking move and Thaigo just looked bewildered when he hit a pass at pace and then see the ball coming straight back to him.With Jota and Mane coming back he needs to just play the two new lads at the back and get Henderson and Fabhino out of defense and try get a bit of rhythm going again. 

[slaphead]

Anyone arsed? Like really?

I am yes. With City coming on Sunday that was a golden chance to get confidence rocking and win 3 games on the bounce and cut their lead and we put in one of our worst performances in ages. That kind of shit frustrates the bullox out of me because we've done it so often now.
There are reasons of course but it's not nice to see a title defence fizzle out especially at the hands of poor teams
 

[Flaccido Dongingo]

Worst performance of the season?, and losing to a fluke goal that's the first goal if that players career?, could only happen to Liverpool this season, just relieved that no one else got injured, the spine of the team was essentially missing last night, desperately need an alternative to Firmino, I love him, but when he's bad, he's utterly horrendous.

[JRed]

It must be so hard playing without the fans at the moment, especially for Liverpool as we all know what Anfield is like when it’s packed. That said tho, it is obvious that some players need to be moved on and a bit of a rebuild is needed. Dare I say it but we need more skillfull players like City have. The low block is all teams need to do to nullify us, we need another way of playing now. The likes of Origi, Shaq, Chamberlain, Firmino have had dreadful seasons. Milner is probably in his last season as an effective player (amazing as he has been) . Gini has been great but I don’t mind him leaving as I think we need a different type of midfield now, one that’s not just about running and power. It’s certainly a challenge for Klopp and the club now.
The title has clearly gone, we ‘should’ still have enough to get top 4 and hopefully a good run in the CL.

[Stubbins]

FA Cup 5th Round, Feb 1983.

Prior to this match, Liverpool had gone 63 home cup matches unbeaten.

Result: Liverpool 1  Brighton 2.

At the time, Liverpool were top of the league and Brighton were bottom.

I remember it like yesterday. Well the final result anyway. Did Jimmy Case score for them? Oh to have midfielder like him in our ranks now who could weigh in with a goal or two.

[jepovic]

Our midfield needs an upgrade in the summer. We have been relying fully on the FBs and wingers to create goals, but it makes us predictable. Yesterday we saw more opening passes from the back four than from midfield. Milner has 2+3 goals and assist in the last season and a half, Gini has 6+0. They're great work horses, but we need more creative options. Everyone can see how a player with more quality on the ball, like Thiago or Jones, can create space and open up defenses. 

[Fordy]

Zero reason not to start Jones yesterday though.

Starting Milner was the right thing.

As for Jones. When he came on he did nothing unlike the other day. I can understand why he was on the bench. I am not convinced he is the answer. We need to decide how we want him to play and for me it would be like he played for the reserves.

[Fordy]

Our midfield needs an upgrade in the summer. We have been relying fully on the FBs and wingers to create goals, but it makes us predictable. Yesterday we saw more opening passes from the back four than from midfield. Milner has 2+3 goals and assist in the last season and a half, Gini has 6+0. They're great work horses, but we need more creative options. Everyone can see how a player with more quality on the ball, like Thiago or Jones, can create space and open up defenses. 

I agree our midfield does need a upgrade but we also need a forward that can beat a man.  A would be going all out for Jack Grealish

[deano2727]

After sleeping on it, nothing has really changed for me.

It is what it is. We have too many injuries , are too tired and are out of ideas for the most part.

Get Jota back and put a marker down on top 4.

[killer-heels]

One thing about no crowds is that you can hear the players talking and shouting and it was clear that Henderson was not too fond of Shaqiri.

[El Lobo]

Thats a new low point last night, which is impressive considering some of the results this season.

Burnley and West Brom, and certain others, happen even to the best teams. Bus parking teams getting a lucky breakaway or set piece as their keeper has a worldie. But last night the gaffer was outclassed by Graham Potter. Their midfield completely outclassed ours. Their defence completely outclassed our attack. Their attack completely outclassed our defence. Not only did they outclass us but they outfought us, outran us, out pressed us, were more creative, better set up. We can talk about them 'being in better form' but we've just had two superb wins in a row away from home against two good sides.

The young kid in goal didnt deserve that, he didnt put a foot wrong.

The captain and Phillips in defence did their best.

Trent and Robbo at the moment are being outshone by Luke fucking Shaw and Wan fucking Bissaka in terms of output and creativity.

The midfield was absolutely dire. Milner looked like a 34 year old in the twilight of his career, Gini looked like his head is elsewhere, Thiago most certainly didn't look like a CL winner and one of the best in the world, Shaqiri looked like someone we would have struggled to give away in the summer. Oxlade-Chamberlain when he came on didnt even look like a competition winner, that'd be far too polite.

We've got one reliable attacker right now, and I feel dreadful for Mo. He's on course for another incredible season and he's getting so little help from anywhere else. For so much of the season Bobby has not done enough and yesterday was maybe his worst. His first touch was often going further away than many adults could kick a ball. Origi was dreadful when he came on, as he usually seems to be. After his last couple of displays though, I really dont get why we'd not keep him in the team if we have no Mane or Jota. It was just so stagnant and by the time he was on they had a lead to sit on and the confidence of over an hour of very easily keeping us at arms length. The refusal to use Minamino since the 7-0 against Palace and subsequent loaning is starting to look stranger and stranger.

The injuries have been fucking outrageous this season make no mistake, but we shouldnt be putting in this sort of performance as often as we are doing even accounting for the injuries AND the officiating AND the lack of fans. The gaffer talked about mental fatigue, but we've got players on the bench who have barely played and players on the pitch who have played practically every game. Minamino was an obvious one, but Tsimikas too. Neco Williams hasn't been used at all. Ox is getting at most 15-20 minutes occasionally at the end of a game. Curtis for some reason has been taken out of the team just when we're really needing someone to provide something a little different. We cant keep using the exact same players but then complain about mental and physical fatigue when we're not using other players.

Its a fucking trainwreck of a season anyway but they're really not helping themselves right now. If the senior players cant be relied on, get some more kids in there.