Topic: Never mind 'Stop the Boats' - STOP THE TORIES

[TepidT2O]

They genuinely might not be the second party at the next election…

[Red Beret]

You are absolutely right but I didn't say that did I ...So you are wrong.

If you're saying there's no difference, then you're saying they're just as bad as each other.

[Red Beret]

They genuinely might not be the second party at the next election…

Their only hope now is that Reform is just a protest vote and that their core support bounces back when Tory voters see their party languishing on 80 seats.

[TepidT2O]

Their only hope now is that Reform is just a protest vote and that their core support bounces back when Tory voters see their party languishing on 80 seats.

Reform should outperform their by election vote share. They have almost no on the ground campaign team so struggle to get their vote out in by elections. In a general election it’s much easier to get people out to vote.

Any one labour was going to lose to reform went years ago, so the threat is really only to the tories.

The big big risk for them is if farrage comes back.  He really could destroy them.

What a sad state of affairs when this bunch of bigots is polling so highly …. But again, most of their vote is in the over 60s.

[Red Beret]

Reform should outperform their by election vote share. They have almost no on the ground campaign team so struggle to get their vote out in by elections. In a general election it’s much easier to get people out to vote.

Any one labour was going to lose to reform went years ago, so the threat is really only to the tories.

The big big risk for them is if farrage comes back.  He really could destroy them.

What a sad state of affairs when this bunch of bigots is polling so highly …. But again, most of their vote is in the over 60s.

I don't pretend to understand the dynamics of polling or political preference (plenty of other things I DO pretend to understand, but this isn't one of them ) 

The best comparison I can think of is from the early 80s. The SDP-Liberal Alliance forced Labour back to the centre ground, as they had no hope of regaining power as long as their vote was so badly splintered. That meant the hard left either walking away from Labour altogether, or remaining in the "broad church" so they could still at least have some kind of voice.

The Tories seem to be in a similar position right now, but they're doing the opposite - marching towards the hard right. Centrist Tories are likely going to switch to the Lib Dems if the trend continues into the long term.

The Tories' short term, reactionary mindset is their own worst enemy right now. They don't seem to realise that returning to the centre ground will be short term pain for long term gain. They won't regain power anytime soon; but once their hard right voters get bored of kicking their heels on the sidelines, watching Labour win elections, and being unable to influence the political agenda, they will abandon Reform.

As I see it, Reform aren't currently a threat to Labour, but I think they will try to make a play for the Labour vote at some point. We can see it with the defection of the Tories' Manchester mayoral candidate. I don't think they want to be in power, but they do want to influence the major parties by pulling the strings in the background. That way they don't have to worry about the consequences.

They're a hard right party who will try to dress themselves up in centrist clothing. We'll have to see how it plays out.

[Lusty]

I wouldn't expect people in that salary band to get too much sympathy, but to be fair it is a bit of a cliff edge for people with kids at that level. They immediately lose access to free and/or tax free childcare and the tax rate shoots up to 60%.

Not a priority obviously but in an ideal world they'd smooth that out a bit.

[Riquende]

They genuinely might not be the second party at the next election…

In 2016 people made a lot of parallels between Trump and Brexit, and then in the aftermath between Trump and Boris. But I think Reform here in 2024 is properly the UK equivalent of the 2016 MAGA movement. It's a wholly unserious* political movement with no track record of governance at any level, appeals mainly to men (that certain type of 'feeling left behind' middle-aged+ white bloke most strongly) and is making big polling splashes without specific commitments but instead just voicing a vague "Everything is broken, the existing institutions don't work any more but we can fix it" platform. Whereas MAGA was bred from previous movements like the Tea Party, Reform is a clear continuation of the UKIP platform - all of it wielding as a weapon the sense of resentment against a political establishment that is leaving increasing numbers behind and feeling forgotten.

* The whole thing is organised like a business with Frottage as the majority shareholder who cannot be removed from his 'presidency' position and can fire any of the leadership at will. People who 'join' the Reform Party pay a subscription but aren't considered to be members in a true sense and have no say in the direction of the party.

Now obviously a UK Parliamentary election is not similar to a US Presidential election and Reform isn't suddenly going to install a PM, no matter how well they poll or perform at the ballot box. Certainly worrying times for the more moderate Tories though, not just because of the vote share being split on the Right (for once!), but also because of how MAGA populism infected utterly mainstream Republicanism, which could be a harbinger for how Reform populism might dictate their direction in the years to come.

[PaulF]

So that's about 5.5k a month after tax. Pay a mortgage of £1k a month, student loans and bringing up kids. Let's say on one salary, with stay at home parter so no childcare costs. Should be manageable......

[Bobsackamano]

I don't pretend to understand the dynamics of polling or political preference (plenty of other things I DO pretend to understand, but this isn't one of them ) 

The best comparison I can think of is from the early 80s. The SDP-Liberal Alliance forced Labour back to the centre ground, as they had no hope of regaining power as long as their vote was so badly splintered. That meant the hard left either walking away from Labour altogether, or remaining in the "broad church" so they could still at least have some kind of voice.

The Tories seem to be in a similar position right now, but they're doing the opposite - marching towards the hard right. Centrist Tories are likely going to switch to the Lib Dems if the trend continues into the long term.

The Tories' short term, reactionary mindset is their own worst enemy right now. They don't seem to realise that returning to the centre ground will be short term pain for long term gain. They won't regain power anytime soon; but once their hard right voters get bored of kicking their heels on the sidelines, watching Labour win elections, and being unable to influence the political agenda, they will abandon Reform.

As I see it, Reform aren't currently a threat to Labour, but I think they will try to make a play for the Labour vote at some point. We can see it with the defection of the Tories' Manchester mayoral candidate. I don't think they want to be in power, but they do want to influence the major parties by pulling the strings in the background. That way they don't have to worry about the consequences.

They're a hard right party who will try to dress themselves up in centrist clothing. We'll have to see how it plays out.

It's going to be really interesting to see how this plays out, in many ways our electoral system has kept the fringes of the left and right out of parliament with the more ambitious of the fringes keeping themselves within the Labour and Tory parties to exert whatever influence they can over what are notionally broad church parties.

This looks like it could be breaking down and if Labour sweep the country and the Tory vote splits between 2 parties you could have a situation with Labour getting 80% of the seats on a mid 40's share of the vote.

As a long time advocate of PR this presents an opportunity as you could effectively have no official opposition in parliament to Labour. Our parliament cannot really function without an official opposition so this could in some ways break the system.

I doubt many people on here would mourn the end of the Tory party however the chain reaction that a collapse of the Tory party would set off could result in something far more extreme coming in it's place.

The soundings I'm getting from people on that side of politics are extremely grim for the Tories, I wouldn't bet against a complete implosion and Reform beating them in vote share by some margin.

[killer-heels]

So that's about 5.5k a month after tax. Pay a mortgage of £1k a month, student loans and bringing up kids. Let's say on one salary, with stay at home parter so no childcare costs. Should be manageable......

Mortgage will be well in excess of £1k. More like £1.5k-£2k. But yeah still manageable.

[Red Beret]

As

In 2016 people made a lot of parallels between Trump and Brexit, and then in the aftermath between Trump and Boris. But I think Reform here in 2024 is properly the UK equivalent of the 2016 MAGA movement. It's a wholly unserious* political movement with no track record of governance at any level, appeals mainly to men (that certain type of 'feeling left behind' middle-aged+ white bloke most strongly) and is making big polling splashes without specific commitments but instead just voicing a vague "Everything is broken, the existing institutions don't work any more but we can fix it" platform. Whereas MAGA was bred from previous movements like the Tea Party, Reform is a clear continuation of the UKIP platform - all of it wielding as a weapon the sense of resentment against a political establishment that is leaving increasing numbers behind and feeling forgotten.

* The whole thing is organised like a business with Frottage as the majority shareholder who cannot be removed from his 'presidency' position and can fire any of the leadership at will. People who 'join' the Reform Party pay a subscription but aren't considered to be members in a true sense and have no say in the direction of the party.

Now obviously a UK Parliamentary election is not similar to a US Presidential election and Reform isn't suddenly going to install a PM, no matter how well they poll or perform at the ballot box. Certainly worrying times for the more moderate Tories though, not just because of the vote share being split on the Right (for once!), but also because of how MAGA populism infected utterly mainstream Republicanism, which could be a harbinger for how Reform populism might dictate their direction in the years to come.

As with MAGA and the Republicans, Reform only have as much power over the Tories as they are willing to give it. And as with Republicans, the Tories are refusing to make those hard choices. So in both cases, the tail ends up wagging the dog.

[ianburns252]

According to Rightmove the average sale price in the last year in that area was about £950k for a property.

Even dropping down to a mortgage of £750k on a 25 year mortgage the monthly repayment is £4.3k at 4.5% interest.

I get the sentiment that people on £100k aren't going to be the ones who are suffering generally but with how screwed up the property market is these days it isn't going to be an easy ride so it is a good tactical play by Hunt to get people in the local area onside as it shows he understands the pressures they will be feeling.

We definitely shouldn't be moving mountains and changing policies for these people but dismissing it won't do any favours.

For reference - per Listentotaxman.com someone on £100k who is making 5% pension contrib and is Plan 1 for Student Loans (the £3k era) would get £4.8k pm after tax so for the example above they would have £500 pm left after mortgage.

Looking at more reasonable properties I found a 2 bed semi for £500k which is about 2.7k mortgage so leaves £2k pm before council tax, bills, car payments etc etc - not exactly backs to the wall but to support a partner and child it will be expensive around there (nursey is looking at £1k pm)

Shows how messed up the country is that someone on £100k can claim to not have it easy but I can see how someone living in Surrey could make the claim that they don't have it easy and why Hunt is pandering to it

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

The average house price isn't really a fair reflection as the multi-million pound houses will distort it. Only the mega rich are buying those. If the household income is £100k then you shouldn't be able to get a mortgage for much more than £500k, and that's assuming no other debts. The £750k example is therefore pretty irrelevant.

This issue is also based on only one individual earning over £100k so doesn't account for a partner earning a salary too. And if they're not, then there will be no need to be paying nursery fees anyway (obviously unless the partner isn't involved).

[ianburns252]

The average house price isn't really a fair reflection as the multi-million pound houses will distort it. Only the mega rich are buying those. If the household income is £100k then you shouldn't be able to get a mortgage for much more than £500k, and that's assuming no other debts. The £750k example is therefore pretty irrelevant.

This issue is also based on only one individual earning over £100k so doesn't account for a partner earning a salary too. And if they're not, then there will be no need to be paying nursery fees anyway (obviously unless the partner isn't involved).

Thats why I dropped in the scaled down version at £500k and acknowledged that it wasn't going to be necessarily applicable.

The point isn't to try and go "oh the poor dears only on £100k" it is to show how fucked the country is that it could reasonably be latched on to.

[thaddeus]

Sick people leaving workforce at record highs

The number of people leaving the workforce due to long term sickness is at its highest since the 1990s, a report suggests.

Adults economically inactive due to ill-health rose from 2.1m in July 2019 to a peak of 2.8m in October 2023, said the Resolution Foundation.

It is the "longest sustained rise" since 1994-1998, when records began.

A long run of Tory governments ending with a failing health service and a burnt out workforce.  History repeating.

[west_london_red]

As

As with MAGA and the Republicans, Reform only have as much power over the Tories as they are willing to give it. And as with Republicans, the Tories are refusing to make those hard choices. So in both cases, the tail ends up wagging the dog.

The difference here is we have a third party, and where as some Republicans who don’t like Trump but hate the Democrats will still vote Republican, we do have a third party with the Lib Dems that disaffected centrist Tories can vote for over here.

[Red Beret]

The difference here is we have a third party, and where as some Republicans who don’t like Trump but hate the Democrats will still vote Republican, we do have a third party with the Lib Dems that disaffected centrist Tories can vote for over here.

Correct. The Tories, will find them squeezed on the left by the Lib Dems and the right by Reform. But if they fight for the centre ground, their lunatic fringe will eventually abandon Reform and return. But if the Tories keep moving to the right, the centrist voters will go LD and stay there until the Tories get off the crack and move back to the centre.

Re the Republicans, in 2020, may GOP voters did indeed vote Republican all the way down their ticket, but didn't vote for either Trump or Biden, so they do at least get to register a protest at their party without necessarily abandoning it altogether.

If the Republicans fought for the centre ground, their lunatics would end up coming back to them. They wouldn't be able to stomach Democrats winning. It's why Trump's threat to set up a third party to cleave the GOP's vote is a hollow one in the long term. Indeed, it would just be another grift. They would suffer for an election cycle or two, but if they toughed it out things would balance out. They just won't do it though.

In both cases, the Tories and the GOP are catering towards their extreme minority. They can't win an election without them, but they won't win an election by pandering towards them either.

[Red Beret]

A long run of Tory governments ending with a failing health service and a burnt out workforce.  History repeating.

I hate that term, "economically inactive". It's bs. If they're receiving disability, then their spending it. Where does that money go? Into the fucking economy, that's where.

Maybe they pay for a carer, or for someone to come clean their home because they can't do it themselves; or to do the shopping for them; or maybe they're paying for private therapy because NHS waiting times are ridiculous? Perhaps they eat out a lot, because it's easier than cooking. Or they travel, so they're not stuck indoors. Or maybe they manage a few hours a week doing unpaid volunteer work? Maybe they work at a soup kitchen, helping the homeless?

"Economically inactive" is the most disingenuous bullshit description of someone struggling with their health that I can imagine. It's a fucking insult.

This unspoken implication that if you are not somehow generating or creating something then you are somehow a fucking burden or not contributing really boils my piss.

[Jiminy Cricket]

I hate that term, "economically inactive". It's bs. If they're receiving disability, then their spending it. Where does that money go? Into the fucking economy, that's where.

Maybe they pay for a carer, or for someone to come clean their home because they can't do it themselves; or to do the shopping for them; or maybe they're paying for private therapy because NHS waiting times are ridiculous? Perhaps they eat out a lot, because it's easier than cooking. Or they travel, so they're not stuck indoors. Or maybe they manage a few hours a week doing unpaid volunteer work? Maybe they work at a soup kitchen, helping the homeless?

"Economically inactive" is the most disingenuous bullshit description of someone struggling with their health that I can imagine. It's a fucking insult.

This unspoken implication that if you are not somehow generating or creating something then you are somehow a fucking burden or not contributing really boils my piss.

[Riquende]

I don't tend to dwell much on what actual Tories are thinking at the moment. Not the MPs, not even maybe the party members, but those out there that just consider themselves natural Tory voters. I don't know any amongst the people I talk politics with either in real life or online. And so whilst we revel in the polling numbers and warning each other away from daring to dream about wipeouts, I have no idea how 'the other side' are taking all this.

Periodically I check out articles on ConservativeHome and today saw this peach: https://conservativehome.com/2024/03/24/what-if-the-polls-are-right/ written by some little squit Tory youth whse bio picture looks like a Harry Enfield character. If you can't be bothered to parse through his doom mongering I won't blame you, I'm posting the link more for the comments section than his writings themselves.

Whilst there do seem to be some sensible voices in there lamenting the direction their party is going, some commenters are still going on lockdowns and how they're the main reason the economy is wrecked, how the 'Liberal Wets' have taken over the party and ruined everything (this would be after Johnson kicked them all out of course), how we're seeing 'Soft Socialism' running amok, some GRT stuff about how "we" are all being replaced (90% of young people are either African or Asian now according to one poster).

I chortled a little as I went through, some of these people are lunatics and with any luck they'll be smashed harder than they were in '97, squabble amongst themselves for a generation and not threaten for even longer.

[Red Beret]

I don't tend to dwell much on what actual Tories are thinking at the moment. Not the MPs, not even maybe the party members, but those out there that just consider themselves natural Tory voters. I don't know any amongst the people I talk politics with either in real life or online. And so whilst we revel in the polling numbers and warning each other away from daring to dream about wipeouts, I have no idea how 'the other side' are taking all this.

Periodically I check out articles on ConservativeHome and today saw this peach: https://conservativehome.com/2024/03/24/what-if-the-polls-are-right/ written by some little squit Tory youth whse bio picture looks like a Harry Enfield character. If you can't be bothered to parse through his doom mongering I won't blame you, I'm posting the link more for the comments section than his writings themselves.

Whilst there do seem to be some sensible voices in there lamenting the direction their party is going, some commenters are still going on lockdowns and how they're the main reason the economy is wrecked, how the 'Liberal Wets' have taken over the party and ruined everything (this would be after Johnson kicked them all out of course), how we're seeing 'Soft Socialism' running amok, some GRT stuff about how "we" are all being replaced (90% of young people are either African or Asian now according to one poster).

I chortled a little as I went through, some of these people are lunatics and with any luck they'll be smashed harder than they were in '97, squabble amongst themselves for a generation and not threaten for even longer.

Sounds a lot like GOT to be honest. They're just in an echo chamber.

[TepidT2O]

Rather enjoyed reading that

The Daily Telegraph’s ‘mysterious’ MRP poll was designed to spook Tory MPs by showing Sunak leading them to a 1997-style defeat. But it was too kind: a shellacking on John Major’s scale currently looks like an excellent result.

Mind you, I suspect a labour majority of over 350 is unlikely.

But many commentators are still not ruling out a hung parliament of a small labour majority. I suspect labour will have a very labour majority, but perhaps nowhere near the apocalypse possible. 
Tories have a way of doing better than expected.  They are like cockroaches

[Sangria]

Rather enjoyed reading that

Mind you, I suspect a labour majority of over 350 is unlikely.

But many commentators are still not ruling out a hung parliament of a small labour majority. I suspect labour will have a very labour majority, but perhaps nowhere near the apocalypse possible. 

That's optimistic of you. There are many naysayers saying that Labour would have a very Tory majority.

[Red Beret]

The one thing driving everyone in 1997 was "no complacency". People felt that had undone them in 1992, and were determined not to let it happen again. in 1997, Labour targeted 90 seats to flip in order to secure a majority. I expect someone as methodical as Starmer to be equally cautious. He lacks Blair's charisma certainly, but he comes across as a man who knows how to get things done. I'm not sure Sunak even knows how to get out of bed first thing of a morning.

[Sangria]

The one thing driving everyone in 1997 was "no complacency". People felt that had undone them in 1992, and were determined not to let it happen again. in 1997, Labour targeted 90 seats to flip in order to secure a majority. I expect someone as methodical as Starmer to be equally cautious. He lacks Blair's charisma certainly, but he comes across as a man who knows how to get things done. I'm not sure Sunak even knows how to get out of bed first thing of a morning.

See the complaints about how it's a foregone conclusion, so Labour should push to promise more in the first term, etc. The same people who complain that the last Labour government didn't do enough, are little different fundamentally from the Tories, and so on. Someone asked how Labour are different from the Tories. After the last 14 years of Tory government.

[John C]

The one thing driving everyone in 1997 was "no complacency". People felt that had undone them in 1992, and were determined not to let it happen again. in 1997, Labour targeted 90 seats to flip in order to secure a majority. I expect someone as methodical as Starmer to be equally cautious. He lacks Blair's charisma certainly, but he comes across as a man who knows how to get things done. I'm not sure Sunak even knows how to get out of bed first thing of a morning.

Yep, indeed mate.
On the rest is politics pod we have Rory Stewart predicting a landslide yet Alistair Campbell is not prepared to accept it's possibility until it's sealed. I'm the same, no complacency means exactly that and coercing the doubters in to understanding the dangers of continuity.
And we've well establish there's many that still need to understand that thought process.

The football analogy is you'd take any clear win right now.

[oldfordie]

One of the campaign aims I believe should be sent is if people want to see a end to the selfish corrupt incompetent Torys then a message has to be sent to them by the Public, that message is Annihilation at the election, I don't care of your center left or far left if you really want to see change for the good then destroying the far right populists has to be a part of that goal. I obviously want Labour to win the election but a small Labour majority wont force the Torys to change course. they will be back again at the next election, they need to be taught a lesson they will never forget. A small majority will not be a game changer for me.
Everyone has to get out and vote to send this message.

[killer-heels]

One of the campaign aims I believe should be sent is if people want to see a end to the selfish corrupt incompetent Torys then a message has to be sent to them by the Public, that message is Annihilation at the election, I don't care of your center left or far left if you really want to see change for the good then destroying the far right populists has to be a part of that goal. I obviously want Labour to win the election but a small Labour majority wont force the Torys to change course. they will be back again at the next election, they need to be taught a lesson they will never forget. A small majority will not be a game changer for me.
Everyone has to get out and vote to send this message.

What makes you think the Tories changing will be for the better? If they get destroyed then its more likely that they pivot further right.

[oldfordie]

What makes you think the Tories changing will be for the better? If they get destroyed then its more likely that they pivot further right.

Moving towards the center would be a change for the better,  the change will come when the following election comes along and it's time to pick new candidates so we are talking a year or 2 before the election after next. going back to being Pro EU.
We will have to disagree over moving further to the right, that's never added up for me. now Reforms come along it makes it even more unlikely. out promising Reform is impossible.

[killer-heels]

Moving towards the center would be a change for the better,  the change will come when the following election comes along and it's time to pick new candidates so we are talking a year or 2 before the election after next. going back to being Pro EU.
We will have to disagree over moving further to the right, that's never added up for me. now Reforms come along it makes it even more unlikely. out promising Reform is impossible.

But by your logic they already are in the centre are they not? If Reform are there and they are the proper right then Tories are left of that. I dont see how in the next election cycle they go back to a supposed centrist platform.

People may not like to hear this but they are not wildly different than Labour when it comes to policy are they? If you think they are then what are these policies? Its more likely that they shift to the right and shift back again when they lose the election after this one.

[bigbonedrawky]

Don’t know who that guy is or if he also called for folk to be shot.

Just another racist donating to politicians except Starmer knew about his racism beforehand and turned a blind eye. A bit like some of his fans
I reckon youll hear more about him nearer the election along with Petie Mandelson visits to Epteins home, island and cell...Lets face it Milliband tripped on a stage,ate some bacon and we ended up with Spameron.   

[oldfordie]

But by your logic they already are in the centre are they not? If Reform are there and they are the proper right then Tories are left of that. I dont see how in the next election cycle they go back to a supposed centrist platform.

People may not like to hear this but they are not wildly different than Labour when it comes to policy are they? If you think they are then what are these policies? Its more likely that they shift to the right and shift back again when they lose the election after this one.

No idea how you thought that. ive been calling these Torys far right lying populists, they have to get rid of those MPs or at least relegate them to the backbenches. Braverman and Patel have been a disaster for the Torys, Liz Truss shouldn't be anywhere near power. Sunaks compromised himself being in a right wing straight jacket. 
Yes, that's exactly what am saying, the Torys wont move to the center before the next election, it's impossible before as they haven't got the credibility to do it, the MPs with power know no other way, they are talentless populists. assuming they are hammered then the change will come when they look at what went wrong. they see the reaction to the lies all the time, the public laugh at them , they mock them, they are hardly going to say the problem was we weren't too extreme, we needed to lie and con voters with more populists policys.

[TSC]

Just another racist donating to politicians except Starmer knew about his racism beforehand and turned a blind eye. A bit like some of his fans
I reckon youll hear more about him nearer the election along with Petie Mandelson visits to Epteins home, island and cell...Lets face it Milliband tripped on a stage,ate some bacon and we ended up with Spameron.   

Out of courtesy I googled the guy you referred to.  Google returned 2 results as follows.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Abrahams_(computer_programmer)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Abrahams_(businessman)

I assume it’s the second one you refer to.  Only content there re race is when he accused the Labour Party of antisemitism back in the day.

[Riquende]

I assume it’s the second one you refer to.  Only content there re race is when he accused the Labour Party of antisemitism back in the day.

Seems to have made some Islamophobic tweets back in the day. I haven't found an itemised list but a Guardian article from late 2020 reads thus (the links in the article to the specific tweets suggest they are all now deleted):

However, Muslim groups, pointing to online comments by Abrahams, have raised the alarm over his renewed links to the Labour leadership. Abrahams’ tweets included suggestions that Muslims have “mixed loyalties”, that conservative Muslim culture is inherently violent, and that Muslim youth have a propensity for suicide.

“Don’t think I know how to divide political Islam from moderates and fundamentalists,” Abrahams posted in 2013. “It is the very nature of the beast!”

As recently as this January, he tweeted the claim that while Israel was a “brand new hi-tech state with new inventions to benefit mankind” its “close neighbours chose terrorism and invented suicide bombers”.

It's not clear from this article how he's "renewed links to the Labour leadership" apart from confirming that he stopped donating in 2016 and had started donating again after Starmer became leader.

[TSC]

Zombie government sits infrequently this year

https://www.politics.co.uk/news/2024/03/15/zombie-parliament-house-of-commons-sitting-hours-fall-to-25-year-low/

But they’re in line for a pay rise quite soon

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68563795.amp

Meanwhile they’re off from tomorrow until 15th April

https://www.parliament.uk/about/faqs/house-of-commons-faqs/business-faq-page/recess-dates/

[killer-heels]

Zombie government sits infrequently this year

https://www.politics.co.uk/news/2024/03/15/zombie-parliament-house-of-commons-sitting-hours-fall-to-25-year-low/

But they’re in line for a pay rise quite soon

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68563795.amp

Meanwhile they’re off from tomorrow until 15th April

https://www.parliament.uk/about/faqs/house-of-commons-faqs/business-faq-page/recess-dates/

15th April? Laughable.

[thaddeus]

The BBC with a welcome hatchet job on the Tories and migration:

Say one thing, do another? The government’s record rise in net migration

Think back to the 2019 election campaign. Quite reasonably, you may not remember every detail of the Conservatives' manifesto - but perhaps you do recall one promise: to reduce immigration.

Think back further, to 2016 and the Brexit referendum. Then there was a promise to "take back control" of the UK immigration system. And since it left the EU in 2020, the UK does have more control.

But the numbers of people who've moved here didn't go down, they went up.

Since the Brexit vote and the Conservatives' victory in 2019, the 12 months to June 2022 saw the fastest population growth since the 1960s. Current projections from the Office for National Statistics put the UK on course for 74 million people by 2036 - six million more than there are today.

You'd be well within your rights to ask how that could be? The answer, according to the ONS, is largely immigration.

And one aspect of immigration has received huge amounts of attention from the government and the media. Statement after statement, story after story, has focused on migrants crossing the Channel in small boats - and the government's efforts to stop them.

Indeed you'd be forgiven for thinking small boats are a major part of why immigration is up. But they aren't.

No doubt, small boats are an important issue - on a human and national level. Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has made "stopping the boats" one of his five priorities.

His government's flagship Rwanda plan aims to send some asylum seekers who arrive on small boats there - and Mr Sunak is still trying to get the bill through parliament.

But it's not small boats that are driving an increase in immigration - it's choices made by the government.

The article continues but I've copied and pasted enough already.

For what it's worth I don't think it's a simple case of net migration bad but it winds me up when the Tories pretend they're hard-line on this to appease a section of the voter base when they're evidently not.

[killer-heels]

This election cant come quick enough just so we can learn Labour policy. Sick of having a Labour politician say the Tories are shite but then say we agree with lots of their policy choices

[oldfordie]

This election cant come quick enough just so we can learn Labour policy. Sick of having a Labour politician say the Tories are shite but then say we agree with lots of their policy choices

What Tory policys have Labour said they agree with.
One things certain to happen when Labour come to power, they will be criticised for what they don't do rather than praised for what they do.
We also know Labour have made no secret of what they will be able to do when they come to power, they will not be able to reverse many of the Tory policys in the first few yrs due to the country being in sh,, street economically.
Now this can be twisted to mean if Labour don't reverse these policys then they must agree with them, that's absolute bullshit.  they have many things to repair and change, anyone who wants them to repair everything in their first term isn't being realistic. we expect lies/promises like this from the Populist Reform party not the Labour party.

[Red Beret]

With the tax burden so high, it's important that Labour find out where the money is going and plug those leaks. Then they can redirect money into restoring public services.