Topic: UAPs over America: real or balloons??

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

As I wrote before, I have seen very little of West's output. I think, just that Tic Tac video Alan linked. I found West's analysis convincing. I have not double-checked his methodology, but it would seem rather unlikely that he just made it all up. On the other hand, I have seen nothing from Nolan - the biologist* - except vague promises to release proof at some point.

It seems prevalent these days to promote experts in one one field as experts in another unrelated area. We saw it all the time with COVID, 9/11 etc., and we see it here again with UFOs.

You don’t seems very well researched on the topic and that’s perhaps because you find it ridiculous and fair enough. But to suggest it’s unlikely one person, a professional debunker who gets paid for debunking would make it up? Yet I suppose what must be millions of people around the world, with no motive other than to be laughed at over the last 70 years and further back are all making it up? I’m not drawing any real conclusions to what the phenomena is apart from it seems real and there’s something there and it’s something no one understands.

I don’t think you can put up COVID and 9/11 with the UFO/UAP phenomena

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

It's a long term interest for me Doc. I'm fascinated by conspiritorial thinking, perception and also enjoy the process of investigation. That bit of work I did on the Mosul orb was fascinating. I learned a load of stuff I didn't know before and there was real satisfaction in being able to model the whole thing and show to my own satisfaction my hypothesis held up.

It's really difficult to explain to people that they are looking at an image taken from 5km away at 5km altitude. If someone can't grasp that and the incredibly narrow field of view they aren't going to understand how a floating balloon can seem to speed over the ground.

If you don't understand or accept that motion blur will turn an object like a bird, a plane or a bug into an elongated shape that will be either saucer or 'tic-tac' shape then the debunking seems ridiculous and easy to dismiss. Its actually straightforward to demonstrate but it requires a willingness to let go of the idea that Tic Tacs are proof of alien craft with impossible properties.

I’m off for my motorcycle test now, but on your last point, I’m guessing your holding your final conclusion until they release the actual radar and sensor data and not giving any value to the accounts of the people who operated the radars? That would be fair enough for a person who wants to see hard evidence.

[Riquende]

I don’t enjoy confrontation, but do enjoy debate

The disconnect you're having is that you don't understand how to debate or the rules of logic, and when someone challenges a point you consider it a confrontational attack, and then also insinuate your interlocutor must be angry or otherwise emotional, just because they don't want to have the same sort of discussion you do (the fun one where we all speculate wildly about which movie's aliens the UFO pilots most look like).

Ok at this point then, you believe Mick West over Nobel nominated Stanford Professor Garry Nolan.

See, this is your problem. It's not "believe one or the other", because what we do here is look at the original claim, which is Nolan's. We aren't bothered about 'believing' Mick West at this point, in fact his point about a lack of evidence could have been made by serial untruther Donald Trump (no doubt that's another person you worldy open-minded folk have never heard of) and it would still be just as relevant. The burden of proof doesn't lie with the responder to the claim to have to disprove anything, if there isn't anything supporting it in the first place.

Clearly there are people listening to this Nolan and his ilk and believing them. But if your best reasons are "I can't see why he'd put his reputation on the line if he didn't think it was true" and "Nobody can think of a mundane explanation so this could be something", then neither of those are steps towards determining the truth of any particular claim made for whatever these objects may be.

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

The disconnect you're having is that you don't understand how to debate or the rules of logic, and when someone challenges a point you consider it a confrontational attack, and then also insinuate your interlocutor must be angry or otherwise emotional, just because they don't want to have the same sort of discussion you do (the fun one where we all speculate wildly about which movie's aliens the UFO pilots most look like).

See, this is your problem. It's not "believe one or the other", because what we do here is look at the original claim, which is Nolan's. We aren't bothered about 'believing' Mick West at this point, in fact his point about a lack of evidence could have been made by serial untruther Donald Trump (no doubt that's another person you worldy open-minded folk have never heard of) and it would still be just as relevant. The burden of proof doesn't lie with the responder to the claim to have to disprove anything, if there isn't anything supporting it in the first place.

Clearly there are people listening to this Nolan and his ilk and believing them. But if your best reasons are "I can't see why he'd put his reputation on the line if he didn't think it was true" and "Nobody can think of a mundane explanation so this could be something", then neither of those are steps towards determining the truth of any particular claim made for whatever these objects may be.

Bah you’re wrong mate, I assume someone’s angry if they are swearing. And then people such as yourself randomly jump in with snide remarks accusing me of only wanting to discuss what movie aliens are in UAPs? Bollocks mate, I’m out of here not worth wasting my time in trying to have a reasonable discussion.

[Elmo!]

Bah you’re wrong mate, I assume someone’s angry if they are swearing.

Fucking hell, I must be furious all the time.

[Riquende]

Bah you’re wrong mate, I assume someone’s angry if they are swearing. And then people such as yourself randomly jump in with snide remarks accusing me of only wanting to discuss what movie aliens are in UAPs? Bollocks mate, I’m out of here not worth wasting my time in trying to have a reasonable discussion.

Probably for the best as you seem to be getting a bit worked up now, which won't help your focus. So long, and good luck on the motorcycle test!

[Jiminy Cricket]

Fucking hell, I must be furious all the time.

Like New Yorkers, I use 'fucking' in place of 'very'.

[lionel_messias]

Well, well I am pleased this thread is properly raging now.


So I have an open mind and I have been listening intently to people talking on this subject, not just this year but for many years. But intensively reading and listening to folk these past few months.

In a nutshell, I have said it over and over again: proof is in data. Data has be evaluated, then peer reviewed by scientists. Even then we are potentially talking about something well beyond the paradigm most people are comfortable with.

Skepticism vs Believing. Is that all we have? I appreciate honest debate on all of this. I don't appreciate trying to knock down any individual whose comments do not meet your POV. Let's take Gary Nolan. A couple of exerpts from his Stanford profile:


"Dr. Nolan is the Rachford and Carlota A. Harris Professor in the Department of Pathology at Stanford University School of Medicine. He trained with Leonard Herzenberg (for his Ph.D.) and Nobelist Dr. David Baltimore (for postdoctoral work for the first cloning/characterization of NF-κB p65/ RelA and the development of rapid retroviral production systems). He has published over 300 research articles and is the holder of 40 US patents, and has been honored as one of the top 25 inventors at Stanford University.

Dr. Nolan is the first recipient of the Teal Innovator Award (2012) from the Department of Defense (a $3.3 million grant for advanced studies in ovarian cancer), the first recipient of an FDA BAAA, for “Bio-agent protection” grant, $3million, from the FDA for a “Cross-Species Immune System Reference”, and received the award for “Outstanding Research Achievement in 2011” from the Nature Publishing Group for his development of CyTOF applications in the immune system. Dr. Nolan has new efforts in the study of Ebola, having developed instrument platforms to deploy in the field in Africa to study Ebola samples safely with the need to transport them to overseas labs (funded by a new $3.5 million grant from the FDA) and another grant to study the effects of Zika and Ebola viruses on humans (also from the FDA)."

Does not sound like a crazed fantasist to me.

Wonder if he's toss it all away for some podcasts and a big of a who-haa on Twitter:


"His areas of research include hematopoiesis, cancer and leukemia, autoimmunity and inflammation, and computational approaches for network and systems immunology. Dr. Nolan’s recent efforts are focused on a single cell analysis advance using a mass spectrometry-flow cytometry hybrid device, the so- call “CyTOF” and the “Multiparameter Ion Beam Imager” (MIBI) developed by Dr. Mike Angelo in his lab (Dr. Angelo is now an Assistant Professor in the Dept of Pathology at Stanford). The approaches use an advanced ion plasma source to determine the levels of tagged reagents bound to cells—enabling a vast increase in the number of parameters that can be measured per cell—either as flow cytometry devices (CyTOF) or imaging platforms for cancer (MIBI). Further efforts with another imaging platform termed CODEX (Akoya, Inc.) that inexpensively converts fluorescence scopes to high dimensional imaging platforms."

Would not have thought so.

In the area of studying and thinking about objects we have not seen before or studied before, are you going to find a scientist with that as their job title? No, you are not. But someone serious, who understands research and has a grounding in the paradigms of human science and research? You'd have to have an agenda to discount Doctor Gary Nolan.

So I would invite some of you to read between the lines here. There was a UAP hearing last month by AARO. The director said, "no evidence of ETs" but this is how we are going to collect data. We expect another hearing with Pilot testimonies this month and we just heard NASA have their own event on May 31st. Now, NASA too will no doubt say, "this is how we are going to collect data." They are not bringing out alien bodies, or Will Smith!

Biden passed Whistleblow protection specifically on this topic in December 2022, which means anyone who worked on a small government programs, with or without "materials" can come forward and be protected by law. It is said these people exist.

You either believe all of this is based on lies and kabloue or you believe - as I do - that we are seeing a process here. That within the beaurocracy of the United States resides enough evidence to nail this topic to the wall. And what you will hear is three simple letters:


NHI.

Non-human intelligence.



Now Alan X might be right about something, we may all shrug our shoulders and get back to normal life, trying to earn a buck in this crap economy but plenty of us will be transformed by this. A removal of just us from the centre of the narrative.

[lobsterboy]

Bah you’re wrong mate, I assume someone’s angry if they are swearing. And then people such as yourself randomly jump in with snide remarks accusing me of only wanting to discuss what movie aliens are in UAPs? Bollocks mate, I’m out of here not worth wasting my time in trying to have a reasonable discussion.

Nah in the UK its quite common to use swear words as adjectives, especially among us common types.
And sarcasm as humour. Try not to take it personally its just how we roll!

[So… Howard Philips]

This is all as pointless as arguing about religion. Why don't you all take a break for a year. If real evidence emerges it will smack the whole world right in the mush, you will not have to go looking for it. If nothing emerges then it's jam tomorrow again for those who want it.

Talking of religion maybe the UAPs are actually angels?

It seems a bit strange that the vast majority of these sightings are around the US. Don’t aliens have any interest in Russia or China?

[lobsterboy]

Talking of religion maybe the UAPs are actually angels?

It seems a bit strange that the vast majority of these sightings are around the US. Don’t aliens have any interest in Russia or China?

Isn't that the whole premise of almost every show on the History Channel now?
Stuff like Ancient Aliens and Hancock's bilge?

[lobsterboy]

Gary Nolan; an impressive resume but is there really anything there to make him an authority on ET?
Its a mistake to assume that because he is an expert in one field, he must also be an expert in another completely unrelated one.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Gary Nolan; an impressive resume but is there really anything there to make him an authority on ET?
Its a mistake to assume that because he is an expert in one field, he must also be an expert in another completely unrelated one.

I made a similar comment a couple of hours ago. It seems to carry no weight.

As I wrote before, I have seen very little of West's output. I think, just that Tic Tac video Alan linked. I found West's analysis convincing. I have not double-checked his methodology, but it would seem rather unlikely that he just made it all up. On the other hand, I have seen nothing from Nolan - the biologist* - except vague promises to release proof at some point.

* It seems prevalent these days to promote experts in one one field as experts in another unrelated area. We saw it all the time with COVID, 9/11 etc., and we see it here again with UFOs.

[Alan_X]

Talking of religion maybe the UAPs are actually angels?

It seems a bit strange that the vast majority of these sightings are around the US. Don’t aliens have any interest in Russia or China?

It's a fact that many of the people associated with Skinwalker ranch are Mormons and they believe in multiple universes.

[lobsterboy]

It's a fact that many of the people associated with Skinwalker ranch are Mormons and they believe in multiple universes.

Multiple universes are theoretically possible but interacting or travelling between them very likely impossible.

There is the man from Taured story for example, but its simply a fake.  A bit like Joseph Smith's nonsense.

[lobsterboy]

I made a similar comment a couple of hours ago. It seems to carry no weight.

It won't.
Conspiracy types will ignore all the scientific investigation by those working in much more closely related fields because they don't like what they say.
Usually prefacing it with "mainstream" somewhere.
Like how Hancock's acolytes will cry "mainstream archaeology (like there is any other type??) says this but we actually found out on youtube it was ghost aliens from Sirius and they made us mine for gold to power their space Ford Fiestas."

Its equally disturbing and insulting to see people casually tossing aside years of work and research from dedicated scholars in favour of a quack on Joe Rogan who has no qualifications in the field they are lying about.

Space, the universe and our reality is far crazier than any of them can ever imagine. You actually don't need the conspiracy theories to "open or blow your mind" the actual science can do that just fine.

[Dr. Beaker]

"If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don't understand quantum mechanics"

[thejbs]

You don’t seems very well researched on the topic and that’s perhaps because you find it ridiculous and fair enough. But to suggest it’s unlikely one person, a professional debunker who gets paid for debunking would make it up? Yet I suppose what must be millions of people around the world, with no motive other than to be laughed at over the last 70 years and further back are all making it up? I’m not drawing any real conclusions to what the phenomena is apart from it seems real and there’s something there and it’s something no one understands.

I don’t think you can put up COVID and 9/11 with the UFO/UAP phenomena

Just to clarify. Are you suggesting there's money to be made in debunking UFOs but no money to be made in pushing UFOlogy and sightings?  That's as bold a claim as many of the UFO sightings themselves.

[lionel_messias]

Gary Nolan; an impressive resume but is there really anything there to make him an authority on ET?
Its a mistake to assume that because he is an expert in one field, he must also be an expert in another completely unrelated one.

Who would you go on on this planet who is an authority on ET? What field would they be in? I saw Avi Loeb's was criticised in this thread as well, so Harvard Chair of Astrophysics is also not good enough.


"He must be an expert," no, that is not quite what I or anyone else here is saying. Nolan has been invited to look into various aspects of UAP over the last few years. He has had some access and, according to him, he was close to some even better access. Again, just to repeat, this is a guy who works on Leukemia and cancer research for a day job; so I'm holding strong that he isn't some crazed fantasist.

The intangible: he has access to people who are talking and they are saying some revelatory things have been briefed to Congress. The DoD has these things called SKIFs, essentially self-contained areas where you can discuss classified information - without a phone etc. Ross Coulthart and others have said these are being used. But of course something has to come out into the public, it is not enough to hint at things going on. We have to see some output.

[Jiminy Cricket]

"He must be an expert," no, that is not quite what I or anyone else here is saying. Nolan has been invited to look into various aspects of UAP over the last few years. He has had some access and, according to him, he was close to some even better access. Again, just to repeat, this is a guy who works on Leukemia and cancer research for a day job; so I'm holding strong that he isn't some crazed fantasist.

So. When the US military capture a Grey and it is suffering from leukemia, Nolan might be just the guy to call. And he also would be the same guy to call when they have some unidentifiable metallic material from an unidentifiable crashed aircraft. It doesn't pass the smell test, does it.

[lionel_messias]

So. When the US military capture a Grey and it is suffering from leukemia, Nolan might be just the guy to call. And he also would be the same guy to call when they have some unidentifiable metallic material from an unidentifiable crashed aircraft. It doesn't pass the smell test, does it.

Yeah, it does, because Gary Nolan has not come out and said he has proof of X, Y, or Z. The point is, he is a scientist who understands data collection, peer review
and what you have to go to prove a hypothesis. After that, I'm talking about his credibility as an individual and the key question of why he would make outrageous claims when his career probably requires the opposite of that.

Should some "exotic" materials exist then I'm guessing a whole range of scientists might be the best people to call. Their exact job titles and positions I don't know as I'm not a scientist and I'm guessing you are not either so.....

[thejbs]

Who would you go on on this planet who is an authority on ET? What field would they be in? I saw Avi Loeb's was criticised in this thread as well, so Harvard Chair of Astrophysics is also not good enough.


"He must be an expert," no, that is not quite what I or anyone else here is saying. Nolan has been invited to look into various aspects of UAP over the last few years. He has had some access and, according to him, he was close to some even better access. Again, just to repeat, this is a guy who works on Leukemia and cancer research for a day job; so I'm holding strong that he isn't some crazed fantasist.

The intangible: he has access to people who are talking and they are saying some revelatory things have been briefed to Congress. The DoD has these things called SKIFs, essentially self-contained areas where you can discuss classified information - without a phone etc. Ross Coulthart and others have said these are being used. But of course something has to come out into the public, it is not enough to hint at things going on. We have to see some output.

I'd say in lieu of actual evidence, a psychologist would be the expert I'd turn to with regard to belief in ET life visiting earth - especially in claims of actual alien contact. I don't mean that flippantly or dismissively - I think it's a psychological phenomenon. Of particular interest is the inverse relationship with religion.

Psychological aspects of the alien contact experience

Christopher C French  1 , Julia Santomauro, Victoria Hamilton, Rachel Fox, Michael A Thalbourne
Affiliations  expand
PMID: 18635162  DOI: 10.1016/j.cortex.2007.11.011
Abstract

Previous research has shown that people reporting contact with aliens, known as "experiencers", appear to have a different psychological profile compared to control participants. They show higher levels of dissociativity, absorption, paranormal belief and experience, and possibly fantasy proneness. They also appear to show greater susceptibility to false memories as assessed using the Deese/Roediger-McDermott technique. The present study reports an attempt to replicate these previous findings as well as assessing tendency to hallucinate and self-reported incidence of sleep paralysis in a sample of 19 UK-based experiencers and a control sample matched on age and gender. Experiencers were found to show higher levels of dissociativity, absorption, paranormal belief, paranormal experience, self-reported psychic ability, fantasy proneness, tendency to hallucinate, and self-reported incidence of sleep paralysis. No significant differences were found between the groups in terms of susceptibility to false memories. Implications of the results are discussed and suggestions are made for future avenues of research.

Belief in extraterrestrial life, UFO-related beliefs, and schizotypal personality

Author links open overlay panelJames Chequers, Stephen Joseph, Debbie Diduca

An 8-item scale was devised to assess belief in extraterrestrial life and UFO-related beliefs. Cross sectional data are reported on 276 young adults who completed the scale along with several measures of schizotypal personality. These data provide evidence that UFO-related beliefs are associated with higher schizotypy scores, but that the belief in extraterrestrial life per se is not.

https://www.psypost.org/2017/04/study-finds-belief-aliens-religious-belief-share-similar-psychological-motivation-48675
https://westminsterresearch.westminster.ac.uk/item/8zv4v/alien-psychology-associations-between-extraterrestrial-beliefs-and-paranormal-ideation-superstitious-beliefs-schizotypy-and-the-big-five-personality-factors
https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/why-we-want-to-believe-in-aliens/

[Jiminy Cricket]

Yeah, it does, because Gary Nolan has not come out and said he has proof of X, Y, or Z. The point is, he is a scientist who understands data collection, peer review
and what you have to go to prove a hypothesis. After that, I'm talking about his credibility as an individual and the key question of why he would make outrageous claims when his career probably requires the opposite of that.

Should some "exotic" materials exist then I'm guessing a whole range of scientists might be the best people to call. Their exact job titles and positions I don't know as I'm not a scientist and I'm guessing you are not either so.....

There are untold material engineers, physicists and chemists who might be called upon to analyse and identify exotic materials. But instead they chose Garry, a biologist specialising in leukemia.

[lionel_messias]

Interesting, for sure.

But I think the current focus will be on moving 'craft', actual materials and/or entry and exit from the Earth's atmosphere.

[lionel_messias]

There are untold material engineers, physicists and chemists who might be called upon to analyse and identify exotic materials. But instead they chose Garry, a biologist specialising in leukemia.

Sorry, who chose him again?

[Jiminy Cricket]

Sorry, who chose him again?

Whoever supplied him with the exotic materials to analyse is the logical answer.

[lobsterboy]

Interesting, for sure.

But I think the current focus will be on moving 'craft', actual materials and/or entry and exit from the Earth's atmosphere.

Again why would a cancer doctor be of any use with this?

Sorry, who chose him again?

I thought it would be the same serious folks who are about to reveal all to congress?

[Jiminy Cricket]

Again why would a cancer doctor be of any use with this?

Because he's 'an expert'. Do try to keep up, Lobster!

[WhereAngelsPlay]

You only have to be able to talk to qualify as an expert on that Ancient Aliens horseshit.

[Jiminy Cricket]

You only have to be able to talk to qualify as an expert on that Ancient Aliens horseshit.

And you need only to possess a medical specialty to be considered 'an expert' in it.

[lionel_messias]

As I wrote before, I have seen very little of West's output. I think, just that Tic Tac video Alan linked. I found West's analysis convincing. I have not double-checked his methodology, but it would seem rather unlikely that he just made it all up. On the other hand, I have seen nothing from Nolan - the biologist* - except vague promises to release proof at some point.

* It seems prevalent these days to promote experts in one one field as experts in another unrelated area. We saw it all the time with COVID, 9/11 etc., and we see it here again with UFOs.

This is extremely disingenuous and you just love to slip in demeaning conspiracy buzzwords like "9/11".

Inaccurate as well, Gary Nolan has not promised to reveal something himself, nor that he is an expert in ET.

By definition and where are in history, there are no experts in ET on the planet. Someone would have to make a claim for NHI first and then
assign some scientists to study it first.

Bit of a chicken and egg situation I guess. No doubt infuriating the Debunker Crew.

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

Well, well I am pleased this thread is properly raging now.


So I have an open mind and I have been listening intently to people talking on this subject, not just this year but for many years. But intensively reading and listening to folk these past few months.

In a nutshell, I have said it over and over again: proof is in data. Data has be evaluated, then peer reviewed by scientists. Even then we are potentially talking about something well beyond the paradigm most people are comfortable with.

Skepticism vs Believing. Is that all we have? I appreciate honest debate on all of this. I don't appreciate trying to knock down any individual whose comments do not meet your POV. Let's take Gary Nolan. A couple of exerpts from his Stanford profile:


"Dr. Nolan is the Rachford and Carlota A. Harris Professor in the Department of Pathology at Stanford University School of Medicine. He trained with Leonard Herzenberg (for his Ph.D.) and Nobelist Dr. David Baltimore (for postdoctoral work for the first cloning/characterization of NF-κB p65/ RelA and the development of rapid retroviral production systems). He has published over 300 research articles and is the holder of 40 US patents, and has been honored as one of the top 25 inventors at Stanford University.

Dr. Nolan is the first recipient of the Teal Innovator Award (2012) from the Department of Defense (a $3.3 million grant for advanced studies in ovarian cancer), the first recipient of an FDA BAAA, for “Bio-agent protection” grant, $3million, from the FDA for a “Cross-Species Immune System Reference”, and received the award for “Outstanding Research Achievement in 2011” from the Nature Publishing Group for his development of CyTOF applications in the immune system. Dr. Nolan has new efforts in the study of Ebola, having developed instrument platforms to deploy in the field in Africa to study Ebola samples safely with the need to transport them to overseas labs (funded by a new $3.5 million grant from the FDA) and another grant to study the effects of Zika and Ebola viruses on humans (also from the FDA)."

Does not sound like a crazed fantasist to me.

Wonder if he's toss it all away for some podcasts and a big of a who-haa on Twitter:


"His areas of research include hematopoiesis, cancer and leukemia, autoimmunity and inflammation, and computational approaches for network and systems immunology. Dr. Nolan’s recent efforts are focused on a single cell analysis advance using a mass spectrometry-flow cytometry hybrid device, the so- call “CyTOF” and the “Multiparameter Ion Beam Imager” (MIBI) developed by Dr. Mike Angelo in his lab (Dr. Angelo is now an Assistant Professor in the Dept of Pathology at Stanford). The approaches use an advanced ion plasma source to determine the levels of tagged reagents bound to cells—enabling a vast increase in the number of parameters that can be measured per cell—either as flow cytometry devices (CyTOF) or imaging platforms for cancer (MIBI). Further efforts with another imaging platform termed CODEX (Akoya, Inc.) that inexpensively converts fluorescence scopes to high dimensional imaging platforms."

Would not have thought so.

In the area of studying and thinking about objects we have not seen before or studied before, are you going to find a scientist with that as their job title? No, you are not. But someone serious, who understands research and has a grounding in the paradigms of human science and research? You'd have to have an agenda to discount Doctor Gary Nolan.

So I would invite some of you to read between the lines here. There was a UAP hearing last month by AARO. The director said, "no evidence of ETs" but this is how we are going to collect data. We expect another hearing with Pilot testimonies this month and we just heard NASA have their own event on May 31st. Now, NASA too will no doubt say, "this is how we are going to collect data." They are not bringing out alien bodies, or Will Smith!

Biden passed Whistleblow protection specifically on this topic in December 2022, which means anyone who worked on a small government programs, with or without "materials" can come forward and be protected by law. It is said these people exist.

You either believe all of this is based on lies and kabloue or you believe - as I do - that we are seeing a process here. That within the beaurocracy of the United States resides enough evidence to nail this topic to the wall. And what you will hear is three simple letters:


NHI.

Non-human intelligence.



Now Alan X might be right about something, we may all shrug our shoulders and get back to normal life, trying to earn a buck in this crap economy but plenty of us will be transformed by this. A removal of just us from the centre of the narrative.

Put my thoughts on it better than I could. And sorry to the septics, I ended up getting a bit ratty earlier.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Put my thoughts on it better than I could. And sorry to the septics, I ended up getting a bit ratty earlier.

Never mind that. Did you pass your test?

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

Never mind that. Did you pass your test?

Nope, but thanks for asking. I failed MOD 1. Was perfect up until the last manoeuvre - hazard avoidance and clipped the cone with my toe. Try again in 3 weeks

[Jiminy Cricket]

Nope, but thanks for asking. I failed MOD 1. Was perfect up until the last manoeuvre - hazard avoidance and clipped the cone with my toe. Try again in 3 weeks

Well, the good news is that it was a small mistake you know how to avoid next time. Good luck for your test in three weeks.

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

Well, the good news is that it was a small mistake you know how to avoid next time. Good luck for your test in three weeks.

Cheers Jiminy, I’m going to have a couple of large Baileys to mellow out. Hope you have a good evening

[Jiminy Cricket]

Cheers Jiminy, I’m going to have a couple of large Baileys to mellow out. Hope you have a good evening

I rarely drink these days, but in the past, I'd have the occasional Bailey's over ice. Dammit! I now have a hankering.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I rarely drink these days, but in the past, I'd have the occasional Bailey's over ice. Dammit! I now have a hankering.

Baileys is like Pringles 

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

I rarely drink these days, but in the past, I'd have the occasional Bailey's over ice. Dammit! I now have a hankering.

I don’t drink much at all either, but I am partial to a Baileys, it’s when you sip it and let it roll over your tongue

[Riquende]

I think I've had one Baileys in my entire life, and it was because I was doing this: