Topic: UK GE and Local Elections, plus polls, and policy.

[Lisan Al Gaib]

The Japanese budget deficit is of very little interest to UK voters.  Id be surprised if any British party had a stance on it.

It may have very little interest but it has just as much relevance especially in local council elections when the issues are potholes on the road, bin collections, policing, fire safety, etc

[Kenny's Jacket]

It was a very tongue in cheek response to Sheffield Greens becoming obsessed with Gaza for the local elections, rather than pot holes, bin collections etc.

I know and I gave a deadpan response on why parties might have a stance on one issue and not on the other.

[Lisan Al Gaib]

The rumours seem to be coming from Hall's camp, they were the ones saying they were confident she had won, maybe setting herself up for a Trump style whinge fest if she doesn't

Ah well that gives a bit of clearer impression then, fingers crossed its what you're saying!

[filopastry]

To be honest I think these are basically dire results for the Tories, the mayorals will help them feel a bit better, but I'm not sure they should be, council elections and the by-election in Blackpool are I think far stronger indicators of where the mood of the country is on national politics

[cornishscouser92]

I know and I gave a deadpan response on why parties might have a stance on one issue and not on the other.

Ah apologies, hard to pick up tone via wifi. Greens probably couldn't care less about Gaza as they have zero influence to actually change anything but it gets them Muslim votes.

[Kenny's Jacket]

It may have very little interest but it has just as much relevance especially in local council elections when the issues are potholes on the road, bin collections, policing, fire safety, etc

I agree Japanese economics are not relevant

[Lisan Al Gaib]

I agree Japanese economics are not relevant

Neither is Gaza

[cornishscouser92]

To be honest I think these are basically dire results for the Tories, the mayorals will help them feel a bit better, but I'm not sure they should be, council elections and the by-election in Blackpool are I think far stronger indicators of where the mood of the country is on national politics

The country is ready for change from the Tories. They should've called the election and gone yesterday, but they think they can improve things still. All the data says it's only getting worse. They're going to be even more unpopular come the autumn as the mood is they're going to get battered and they look desperate/like squatters.

Street and Houchen have distanced themselves from Sunak and the Tories. They've dropped the blue colour in any campagin material & Houchen wasn't even wearing the blue rosette at the count.

[Circa1892]

The takeover of the Greens and switch from being a progressive, environmentally focussed party into a weird mixture of NIMBYism and Corbynism is sad.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Ah apologies, hard to pick up tone via wifi. Greens probably couldn't care less about Gaza as they have zero influence to actually change anything but it gets them Muslim votes.

Its complete guess to suggest they dont care and probably incorrect.  But its an issue that the parts of the  electorate care about, unlike Japan, so not a surprise that it gets a mention.

btw "matter of factly" would have been a better word than deadpan. Deadpan suggests the use of humour.

[filopastry]

Ah well that gives a bit of clearer impression then, fingers crossed its what you're saying!

Don't get me wrong I do think it could be closer than some people expect as well.

To be brutally honest I don't think there is that much "soft" Tory vote to go after in a lot of areas of London, you are getting down to a resilient hardcore, so less swing there than elsewhere, plus its no great secret that Labour has an issue with voters very much on the Left and the muslim vote at present, and both those groups are significantly represented in London.

The move to FPTP hurts Khan as well, he wasn't massively ahead on first preferences last time, and that Tory base/Khan hating vote will turn up very reliably, there is a bit of an enthusiasm gap there, so low turnout would be a problem.

I was surprised the polling looked quite so good for him and I think this one could be closer than people expect

[Kenny's Jacket]

Neither is Gaza

One issue can effect votes and its not the Japanese one

[filopastry]

The takeover of the Greens and switch from being a progressive, environmentally focussed party into a weird mixture of NIMBYism and Corbynism is sad.

The weird thing on the Greens is that their average supporter is to the right of the average Labour voter but I guess that is the NIMBY section dragging things rightward

[Lisan Al Gaib]

One issue can effect votes and its not the Japanese one

If people are using Gaza to effect how their fire and police services are run, how their schools are governed, whether their roads are safe for use and whether their bins are collecting then they are bellends. If they care more about that than they do about how the lives of everyone in their area is then the selfish idiots are the perfect example of horseshoe theory.

[cornishscouser92]

Looks like Ben Bradley has been beaten in the East Midlands Mayor race, the independent (Big corbynite) Jamie Driscoll looks to have lost against Labour’s Kim McGuinness in the North East

[Kenny's Jacket]

If people are using Gaza to effect how their fire and police services are run, how their schools are governed, whether their roads are safe for use and whether their bins are collecting then they are bellends. If they care more about that than they do about how the lives of everyone in their area is then the selfish idiots are the perfect example of horseshoe theory.

Its your prerogative to call them idiots and bellends, but the electorate are more likely to be swayed by that than Japanese economics.  This shouldn't be difficult to grasp for someone smart enough to go calling people idiots.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Its your prerogative to call them idiots and bellends, but the electorate are more likely to be swayed by that than Japanese economics.  This shouldn't be difficult to grasp for someone smart enough to go calling people idiots.

If you are helping the Tories to get in to cause more damage to this already fucked country then you are an idiot aren't you?

Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.

[Lisan Al Gaib]

Its your prerogative to call them idiots and bellends, but the electorate are more likely to be swayed by that than Japanese economics.  This shouldn't be difficult to grasp for someone smart enough to go calling people idiots.

And it shouldn't need someone equally smart enough to grasp why either of those issues are absolutely irrelevant to local council and therefore no need for any argument on it.

[RedSince86]

 

https://x.com/OliDugmore/status/1786336051897770495

[Yorkykopite]

Its your prerogative to call them idiots and bellends, but the electorate are more likely to be swayed by that than Japanese economics.  This shouldn't be difficult to grasp for someone smart enough to go calling people idiots.

It's a protest vote isn't it? But a protest not against the Government but the Opposition, which is an odd one. And a protest over something which is completely irrelevant to local government and beyond anything any council can do. In this sense it fits right in with the self-indulgent identity politics which is all the rage at the moment.

[Lisan Al Gaib]

Looks like Ben Bradley has been beaten in the East Midlands Mayor race, the independent (Big corbynite) Jamie Driscoll looks to have lost against Labour’s Kim McGuinness in the North East

This would be beautiful *chefs kiss*

[oldfordie]

If people are using Gaza to effect how their fire and police services are run, how their schools are governed, whether their roads are safe for use and whether their bins are collecting then they are bellends. If they care more about that than they do about how the lives of everyone in their area is then the selfish idiots are the perfect example of horseshoe theory.

If they've had no problem with Starmers Labour until Gaza then I can accept it's all about Gaza to them, I will disagree but I will at least put it all down to Gaza, if they've been slagging Labour off for not supporting the strikes, NHS etc then they are just using Gaza as a stick to beat Labour with. ive no respect for that.
You see it all the time on Twitter, same people moving from one issue to the next trying to stop people voting Labour.

[Kenny's Jacket]

If you are helping the Tories to get in to cause more damage to this already fucked country then you are an idiot aren't you?

Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.

If I was to simplify the point mate  , the issue in question effects votes.  The Japanese economy doesn't so the smart arse reply on twitter is a poor one.

[Lisan Al Gaib]

If I was to simplify the point mate  , the issue in question effects votes.  The Japanese economy doesn't so the smart arse reply on twitter is a poor one.

Are you always this obtuse?

[Kenny's Jacket]

Are you always this obtuse?

That would be for others to judge

Do you disagree with anything Ive said?

[cornishscouser92]

This would be beautiful *chefs kiss*

British politics shocker - If you go too far to the left or right, you lose.

[classycarra]

The takeover of the Greens and switch from being a progressive, environmentally focussed party into a weird mixture of NIMBYism and Corbynism is sad.

its always been the way. always attracts fringe cranks. we all probably know lots of the very well meaning nice local people who have green priorities (which are now thankfully mostly pretty mainstream), but they've always been led by people who have either no clue or a willful desire to lie to get the results they need. they also seem to hate humans, and things that might help them.

thinking for example of anti nuclear power nonsense here, and the catastrophic german enterprise (now shown to be built on lies from greens) to move away from nuclear. then you have scummy organisations like Greenpeace, doing things to promote childhood blindness and poverty and destitution for farmers in the developing world (source https://twitter.com/mark_lynas/status/1783077984213070316 )

just a week or so ago the greens leader (no idea her name) was on the news lying about the housing crisis, making up lies that empty homes are the problem in the UK not supply (amusingly shown up in response from the statistically and politically literate online)

[Andy @ Allerton!]

If I was to simplify the point mate  , the issue in question effects votes.  The Japanese economy doesn't so the smart arse reply on twitter is a poor one.

What impact can the council have on Gaza? If you are voting for anything outside of local issues in a local election then you're an idiot aren't you?

[Stockholm Syndrome]

its always been the way. always attracts fringe cranks. we all probably know lots of the very well meaning nice local people who have green priorities (which are now thankfully mostly pretty mainstream), but they've always been led by people who have either no clue or a willful desire to lie to get the results they need. they also seem to hate humans, and things that might help them.

thinking for example of anti nuclear power nonsense here, and the catastrophic german enterprise (now shown to be built on lies from greens) to move away from nuclear. then you have scummy organisations like Greenpeace, doing things to promote childhood blindness and poverty and destitution for farmers in the developing world (source https://twitter.com/mark_lynas/status/1783077984213070316 )

just a week or so ago the greens leader (no idea her name) was on the news lying about the housing crisis, making up lies that empty homes are the problem in the UK not supply (amusingly shown up in response from the statistically and politically literate online)

Reminds me of PETA and how they supposedly kidnap pets, and kill more animals than they save because euthanasia is preferable to being domesticated apparently

[koptommy93]

The Japanese budget deficit is of very little interest to UK voters.  Id be surprised if any British party had a stance on it.

Yeah it was a joke, mate.

[Kenny's Jacket]

What impact can the council have on Gaza? If you are voting for anything outside of local issues in a local election then you're an idiot aren't you?

Ive not commented on that. If you think they are idiots thats your prerogative.
However idiots have a vote

Its why Starmer isnt talking about reversing Brexit, because idiots want to stay out and those idiots have a vote. (this statement could be stronger but I will keep it at that)

So again the reply about Japan was a poor one and if anyone disagrees with any of my points they can contest them.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Yeah it was a joke, mate.

I was explaining why the joke doesnt work.

[LuverlyRita]

its always been the way. always attracts fringe cranks. we all probably know lots of the very well meaning nice local people who have green priorities (which are now thankfully mostly pretty mainstream), but they've always been led by people who have either no clue or a willful desire to lie to get the results they need. they also seem to hate humans, and things that might help them.

Caroline Lucas has routinely been one of the few politicians to talk sense on most issues. Climate change is going to have a massive impact on humanity and the suggestion that Greens hate humans is bizarre

thinking for example of anti nuclear power nonsense here, and the catastrophic german enterprise (now shown to be built on lies from greens) to move away from nuclear.

I think that Three Mile Island and Chernobyl had more of an effect on thinking than so-called lies from Greens. Nuclear power has lots of issues  - it's catastophic when it goes wrong and it's extremely expensive, especially when you factor in the cost of dealing with waste

then you have scummy organisations like Greenpeace,

I think there are better examples of "groups" that have created poverty, destroyed land and children's lives on a large scale. No idea how anyone could regard Greenpeace as scummy.

just a week or so ago the greens leader (no idea her name) was on the news lying about the housing crisis, making up lies that empty homes are the problem in the UK not supply (amusingly shown up in response from the statistically and politically literate online)

I doubt she was suggesting that it's the whole problem but it certainly contributes - along with second homes, AirBnBs

[Sangria]

I doubt she was suggesting that it's the whole problem but it certainly contributes - along with second homes, AirBnBs

Or the globe trotting of the likes of Greta Thunberg. It's the very antithesis of what we should be doing.

[LuverlyRita]

Or the globe trotting of the likes of Greta Thunberg. It's the very antithesis of what we should be doing.

To be fair, she's been trying to travel by boat. I have no problem with Thunberg. Her generation is going to be the first to have to deal with the selfishness of those who went before.

[classycarra]

Yeah it was a joke, mate.

trying to work out which of KJ's near dozen posts on this to reply to with the 'thats the joke' simpsons meme

[cornishscouser92]

McGuinness has beaten Driscoll in the NE mayoral election, beaten him comfortably really.

[classycarra]

Caroline Lucas has routinely been one of the few politicians to talk sense on most issues. Climate change is going to have a massive impact on humanity and the suggestion that Greens hate humans is bizarre
I think that Three Mile Island and Chernobyl had more of an effect on thinking than so-called lies from Greens. Nuclear power has lots of issues  - it's catastophic when it goes wrong and it's extremely expensive, especially when you factor in the cost of dealing with waste
I think there are better example of "groups" that have created poverty, destroyed land and children's lives on a large scale. No idea how anyone could regard Greenpeace as scummy.
I doubt she was suggesting that it's the whole problem but it certainly contributes - along with second homes, AirBnBs

you seem to be basing a lot of your response on feelings. have you tried looking into the things you're saying?

you can look at her interview if you'd like - https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1779444472297685441 - she can't handle the slightest of softball questioning of her suggestion that the current (2010-2019) level of new housing avaiability will solve everything (along with her getting community noted because the UK has the lowest proportion of empty homes in Europe)

oh no, is nuclear expensive? ok fine, lets keep going with the fossil fuels! your view there's a prime example of the problems with the greens.

and Caroline Lucas has shown her ignorance and lack of pragmatism on this exact topic multiple times (such as when she complained about a new plant being invensted in). not to mention her party and peers being hugely responsible for many of the delay related costs due to deliberate delaying/sabotaging tactics wrapped up as 'concern'.

if you can't understand how I can believe greenpeace to be scummy then you definitely didn't read the link I provided, and evidently aren't too aware of the organisation. you might feel they have good vibes, but their actions in this century are regularly extremely scummy (as most recently proven in Phillipines. hooray for the childhood blindness they don't want to help prevent - progress!

[RedDeadRejection]

Wait. Is Greta bad in here now? This place boggles me sometimes.

[LuverlyRita]

Don't get me wrong I do think it could be closer than some people expect as well.

To be brutally honest I don't think there is that much "soft" Tory vote to go after in a lot of areas of London, you are getting down to a resilient hardcore, so less swing there than elsewhere, plus its no great secret that Labour has an issue with voters very much on the Left and the muslim vote at present, and both those groups are significantly represented in London.

The move to FPTP hurts Khan as well, he wasn't massively ahead on first preferences last time, and that Tory base/Khan hating vote will turn up very reliably, there is a bit of an enthusiasm gap there, so low turnout would be a problem.

I was surprised the polling looked quite so good for him and I think this one could be closer than people expect

I noticed on Twitter that "VoteTory" and "VoteSusanHall" type hashtags were trending so they've obviously been employing social media in a big way. The women is an abomination so I have no idea why any decent person would consider voting for her but then I thought the same about Ben Houchen (what is wrong with the people of TeeTeeside?)