Topic: Lucas’ critical role for Liverpool

[IndianKopite]

So you are saying mascherano was a more attacking passer of the two under Benitez? If so, that is just blatantly untrue.

Oh new red!
Nope I didn't say this.I said didn't the Benitez instruction to centre-mids holding back which inhibited Lucas also inhibit Mascherano.
A simple yes or no would suffice to this question.Right?

So you all the words you wrote in that huge post which were made on this assumption which is wrong to begin with.Shame really 

I can see rojo isn't even trying now,just trolling around in his last two posts.Its kool,whatever floats your boat

[RojoLeón]

We can all read here. At least some can if they choose to. Maybe its the nitrous...

[redtrev]

LUCAS IS SHITE!!

[J-Mc-]

LUCAS IS SHITE!!

I hope you're hiding because he's just let Skrtel off the leash and is now hunting you down.

[redtrev]

Skrtel IS A PUSSY CAT WITH TATTOOS TO MAKE HIM LOOK TOUGH.. iN REALITY I WOULD THINK REINA WOULD DESTROY BIG MARTIN..

[The 5th Benitle]

LUCAS IS SHITE!!

I'm glad I viewed your previous posts before responding to this
Difficult to tell who is serious and who isn't these days.

[new-red]

Oh new red!
Nope I didn't say this.I said didn't the Benitez instruction to centre-mids holding back which inhibited Lucas also inhibit Mascherano.
A simple yes or no would suffice to this question.Right?

So you all the words you wrote in that huge post which were made on this assumption which is wrong to begin with.Shame really 

I can see rojo isn't even trying now,just trolling around in his last two posts.Its kool,whatever floats your boat

Well I wanted to write that post to show how the movement of the side affected the passing effectiveness of both masch and lucas.

[mulhergremista]

Well most people outside of these Lucas threads consider Mascherano to be world class, and Lucas makes that guy look like a Sunday league player.  So I think we need another level again to describe Lucas.  Galaxy class perhaps?  Universe class?  What's that Jet Li film that goes on about a multiverse or something?

Mascherano is best in the world as the most cheating ,diving, dirty player, he really knows how to get away with it most of the time.  Well, to be fair, Pepe from Real Madrid is a competitor, but he is not as cunny as Mascherano, yet.

I know that some fans in liverpool loved him for that, I received some replies in the Xtratime forum saying that.  Not my cup of tea, neither is Drogba of course... But I don't blame them, it is the referees fault, allowing it /falling for it.
Furthermore, Mascherano plays primarily for Mascherano..  Maybe in Barcelona he did less of these things, I am not sure, I do not follow him very closely. 

Lucas is just the opposite, he is a TEAM PLAYER , always to tackle without injuring the opponent, does not dive, those are qualitities I andmire in a football player.  It is a pity that some referees ignore you if you do not execute a spectacular fall.  Lucas does it when he really hurts. I hope he stay that way, it is frustrating sometimes.   

[Aggie Red]

Mascherano is best in the world as the most cheating ,diving, dirty player, he really knows how to get away with it most of the time.     

You really don't need to call Mascherano a dirty, diving, cheat just because you like Lucas more. I don't know any Liverpool fan who liked Mascherano because they thought he was a cheat, a diver and a dirty player. 

[Mashy-rawr!nooo]

Lucas and Masch comparisions are annoying in a lucas thread. Just be glad we have who we have.

[Prof]

Did anyone else notice two seperate moments when he was crowded in possession and pulled out a couple of tricks to buy space and keep possession?  Very Brazilian of him ;-)

If anyone can find the clips, I'd be grateful.

lucas' trick vs chelsea

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Dd8h4j99LeA

Thanks.

There was another one in the second half if anyone has that?

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

wouldnt call mascherano a pub layer but he is a pub team passer.

his understanding is minimal and thats why he wont be playing for barca int he holding role in a hurry

[IndianKopite]

Well I wanted to write that post to show how the movement of the side affected the passing effectiveness of both masch and lucas.

It was a good post,which is generally true for most of your posts.But in context of discussion in wasn't relevant.

wouldnt call mascherano a pub layer but he is a pub team passer.

his understanding is minimal and thats why he wont be playing for barca int he holding role in a hurry

All I can say is there must be some crazy good players in your local pub team :p

[Vidocq]

Mascherano is best in the world as the most cheating ,diving, dirty player, he really knows how to get away with it most of the time.  Well, to be fair, Pepe from Real Madrid is a competitor, but he is not as cunny as Mascherano, yet.

I know that some fans in liverpool loved him for that, I received some replies in the Xtratime forum saying that.  Not my cup of tea, neither is Drogba of course... But I don't blame them, it is the referees fault, allowing it /falling for it.
Furthermore, Mascherano plays primarily for Mascherano..  Maybe in Barcelona he did less of these things, I am not sure, I do not follow him very closely. 

Lucas is just the opposite, he is a TEAM PLAYER , always to tackle without injuring the opponent, does not dive, those are qualitities I andmire in a football player.  It is a pity that some referees ignore you if you do not execute a spectacular fall.  Lucas does it when he really hurts. I hope he stay that way, it is frustrating sometimes.   

Mourinho, is that you? 

[Sammy5IsAlive]

wouldnt call mascherano a pub layer but he is a pub team passer.

his understanding is minimal and thats why he wont be playing for barca int he holding role in a hurry

Think this is incredibly harsh. When he was playing in that Argie team in 2006 he was exceptional at keeping the ball moving and recycling possession back into the attack. He played a similar role for us under Benitez. Whilst I wouldn't make any claims for him being a 'playmaker' like Alonso or even Lucas, he certainly isn't a 'pub team passer' and for me has showed a very good awareness of the kinds of passes his roles have required.

[mulhergremista]

You really don't need to call Mascherano a dirty, diving, cheat just because you like Lucas more. I don't know any Liverpool fan who liked Mascherano because they thought he was a cheat, a diver and a dirty player. 

I disliked Masch long before I even knew Lucas existed. When he was in Liverpool I did not post against him of course, but after he left I had the right to tell my opinion about him without restrain.  I would not even mention his name in this thread unless those  often comparations posted here which is not relevant IMHO because they are 2 different players and different characters.  About some Liverpool fans who said they liked him the way he was, I did not invent it.  I did not mentioned names, but they are real.  They thought that such a player is positive as long he plays for the club we support, and one moderator in that forum, a well known Liverpool fan wote  even that "we will be happy if Lucas also learn to play like that"   THis can be an issue for another thread, maybe. Do we like a player only for his results on the pitch or we also admire the ones (Too few , unfortunately) that try to play fair, and are positive men also outside the pitch , people who can be real roll model for the kids who watch football.  Sorry, but that is really my opinion,  Again I would like to say that they judges has a lot to do with it, allowing such play. We have seen many injuries but if such players belong to a "great" club (Mancs, Real madrid for example)  The are getting away with that.  Pepe is really annoying.  Lucas on the other hand is punished sometimes with yellow card even when he is practically the victim, just because he stays on his feet and the other one, viewing that he lost the ball , falls down, and miracullousy jumps to his feet after the yellow is given.  Of course Lucas does some fouls himself, he is no angel, and he is sometimes provoked by a rival for a long time, like in the red card in the defeat against Stock Sity..

With these words i hope i explained my opinion on this issue and let us return to Lucas which is the issue of this thread, and speak about Alonso and Mascherano in a thread of "ex players" or whatever you like.
 

 

[Sammy5IsAlive]

I disliked Masch long before I even knew Lucas existed. When he was in Liverpool I did not post against him of course, but after he left I had the right to tell my opinion about him without restrain.  I would not even mention his name in this thread unless those  often comparations posted here which is not relevant IMHO because they are 2 different players and different characters.  About some Liverpool fans who said they liked him the way he was, I did not invent it.  I did not mentioned names, but they are real.  They thought that such a player is positive as long he plays for the club we support, and one moderator in that forum, a well known Liverpool fan wote  even that "we will be happy if Lucas also learn to play like that"   THis can be an issue for another thread, maybe. Do we like a player only for his results on the pitch or we also admire the ones (Too few , unfortunately) that try to play fair, and are positive men also outside the pitch , people who can be real roll model for the kids who watch football.  Sorry, but that is really my opinion,  Again I would like to say that they judges has a lot to do with it, allowing such play. We have seen many injuries but if such players belong to a "great" club (Mancs, Real madrid for example)  The are getting away with that.  Pepe is really annoying.  Lucas on the other hand is punished sometimes with yellow card even when he is practically the victim, just because he stays on his feet and the other one, viewing that he lost the ball , falls down, and miracullousy jumps to his feet after the yellow is given.  Of course Lucas does some fouls himself, he is no angel, and he is sometimes provoked by a rival for a long time, like in the red card in the defeat against Stock Sity..

With these words i hope i explained my opinion on this issue and let us return to Lucas which is the issue of this thread, and speak about Alonso and Mascherano in a thread of "ex players" or whatever you like.
 

 

To be honest mate I think you are looking at things through yellow and green tinted spectacles. It's no bad thing to be fair, I'd imagine that if you were to ask people on here what they think of various Manc players you are unlikely to get particularly balanced opinions.

If I was to use a Liverpool player from my own memory as an example to young players of the type of attitude you should take onto a football pitch it would be Masch.

If I was to do the same thing to illustrate the type of attitude it takes off the pitch to succeed it would be Lucas.

[GrkStav]

Yep I didn't put it together, just re-posted it from anfieldindex.com website. They have some good articles on there.

Agree especially the bit in bold. He's just going to get so much better.

Some peeps were giving you some light grief about the use of the pie-chart. Of course, they really meant the author of the piece.

 

[Nin]

wouldnt call mascherano a pub layer but he is a pub team passer.

his understanding is minimal and thats why he wont be playing for barca int he holding role in a hurry

don't think he'd be playing for barca fullstop if his passing was that crap, a team that is based on possession like they are can't have to anyone that's bad on the ball

[new-red]

It was a good post,which is generally true for most of your posts.But in context of discussion in wasn't relevant.


All I can say is there must be some crazy good players in your local pub team :p

fine, maybe i was being a little self-indulgent. I like writing those posts. I am get bored and frustrated with reiterating several different points in one paragraph posts. I like to collect them all in one post so I can just lay it all out in one post and create the right context for points I want to express so they can't be misinterpreted. but they are anyway, so why do i bother, right ?

[RojoLeón]

fine, maybe i was being a little self-indulgent. I like writing those posts. I am get bored and frustrated with reiterating several different points in one paragraph posts. I like to collect them all in one post so I can just lay it all out in one post and create the right context for points I want to express so they can't be misinterpreted. but they are anyway, so why do i bother, right ?

I wouldn't bother to be honest: most of his posts are snarky over-reactions to things that were never said. He either casts up a strawman of his own design to attack, or completely mis-reads the intent (which is fair enough if English isn't his first language - by the same token, the snides and snarks make me doubt that he has this issue with English in the first place). 

On the topic of this thread and the post I made and you responded to.originally, I think that there is much more freedom being displayed and that we are reaping the rewards. Hopefully we can tighten down some loose areas at the back while upgrading our personnel - we have the guy in Lucas to link up and control the pace of what could he a very exciting team to emerge.

[IndianKopite]

I can just lay it all out in one post and create the right context for points I want to express so they can't be misinterpreted. but they are anyway, so why do i bother, right ?

Wait are you saying I misinterpreted it ?Or others?

[new-red]

Wait are you saying I misinterpreted it ?Or others?

you not a repeat offender. But there are many posters on here who don't read posts completely and respond only to one point without the entire context. There is a reason posts like that are so long. I want to say everything exactly right. You can't let people assume things on the internet because there is no inflection or tone in written text and so they will add their own context and meaning if sentences are vague.

[subroc]

Think this is incredibly harsh. When he was playing in that Argie team in 2006 he was exceptional at keeping the ball moving and recycling possession back into the attack. He played a similar role for us under Benitez. Whilst I wouldn't make any claims for him being a 'playmaker' like Alonso or even Lucas, he certainly isn't a 'pub team passer' and for me has showed a very good awareness of the kinds of passes his roles have required.

Even in Barcelona, Mascherano does not look like a pub player. He obviously has international class skills and the fact that he cannot pass like Alonso or Lucas can does not negate what he can do. At winning the ball and tackling, he may be the only defensive midfielder player in Europe who may be arguably better than Lucas.

[IndianKopite]

you not a repeat offender.

Glad to know that.Can you atleast tell me my offense so that I can explain my side before you sentence me :p

[Liverbird 2010]

The issue that make me react the way i reacted was the following quote, and if this is your English humor, it is in a very bad taste.
That, one of the other pearls that ar there. 

Anywhere, I did not understand what the expression "fo sizzle" means, and also what have I to do with the Bulgarian president, apparently some relative with Lucas moldavian parents

Fo shizzle means "for surë" its not an english thing its an American Rapper thing, I have no idea why you are talking about the Bulgarian president 

Mascherano is best in the world as the most cheating ,diving, dirty player, he really knows how to get away with it most of the time.

This statement is complete bullshit with one agenda or another attached one because he's Arentinian or you have your rose tinted glasses on with all things Lucas Leiva and get jealous of people praising world class midfielders, Mascherano would walk straight back into our team and every top team going and is currently playing for the best team in the world.

[Vidocq]

Fo shizzle means "for surë" its not an english thing its an American Rapper thing, I have no idea why you are talking about the Bulgarian president 

Mascherano is best in the world as the most cheating ,diving, dirty player, he really knows how to get away with it most of the time.

This statement is complete bullshit with one agenda or another attached one because he's Arentinian or you have your rose tinted glasses on with all things Lucas Leiva and get jealous of people praising world class midfielders, Mascherano would walk straight back into our team and every top team going and is currently playing for the best team in the world of all times

fixed

[Sangria]

Fo shizzle means "for surë" its not an english thing its an American Rapper thing, I have no idea why you are talking about the Bulgarian president 

Mascherano is best in the world as the most cheating ,diving, dirty player, he really knows how to get away with it most of the time.

This statement is complete bullshit with one agenda or another attached one because he's Arentinian or you have your rose tinted glasses on with all things Lucas Leiva and get jealous of people praising world class midfielders, Mascherano would walk straight back into our team and every top team going and is currently playing for the best team in the world.

To be fair to mulhergremista, there's not much point in accusing her of having an agenda, as she's always made it clear. She's a Lucas and Brazil fan, therefore Mascherano getting Lucas sent off in the Olympics is as worthy of abuse as any Man Utd player getting our respective favourite Liverpool player sent off. It's not some hidden agenda, it's just the way she swings.

Hm, reading her post on the last page, I guess I'm wrong on that one.

[Sangria]

Think this is incredibly harsh. When he was playing in that Argie team in 2006 he was exceptional at keeping the ball moving and recycling possession back into the attack. He played a similar role for us under Benitez. Whilst I wouldn't make any claims for him being a 'playmaker' like Alonso or even Lucas, he certainly isn't a 'pub team passer' and for me has showed a very good awareness of the kinds of passes his roles have required.

I'd say Mascherano passes extremely well for a CB, which in CM terms is competent. He's reasonable at recycling possession, but there is scope for improvement. I've said before that Spearing is far inferior to Mascherano in almost every way but one, but he moves the ball on a little quicker. The marginal improvement in this area can, if it fits into the rest of the team set up around that quality, can be quite significant overall. A lot of it is having an idea in your head what you want to do with the ball before it reaches you. Spearing has it. I'm not sure Mascherano has it to the same level.

[scatman]

I want match highlights of Lucas please.

[The 5th Benitle]

I want to match the highlights of Lucas please.

Go to a hair salon then

[itsgunnabebarnes!]

I'd say Mascherano passes extremely well for a CB, which in CM terms is competent. He's reasonable at recycling possession, but there is scope for improvement. I've said before that Spearing is far inferior to Mascherano in almost every way but one, but he moves the ball on a little quicker. The marginal improvement in this area can, if it fits into the rest of the team set up around that quality, can be quite significant overall. A lot of it is having an idea in your head what you want to do with the ball before it reaches you. Spearing has it. I'm not sure Mascherano has it to the same level.

Very good post

[Matt8Pie]

It was seemingly a master stroke by Rafa to transition lucas from an attacking midfielder, or attacking minded midfielder, into a holding midfielder. It was a long, hard process for him but he's playing as if it's been his position for years and it shows what an eye Rafa has for talent. When Lucas started playing this role, he was far from great at it but he's been brilliant for the past two seasons now.

I hope he's here with us for the rest of his career. I love the guy.

[scatman]

dammit I meant watch, not even a typo that  haha

[Prof]

dammit I meant watch, not even a typo that  haha

Don't give us that one... we all know you like the way the light catches his locks!!!

 

[kaz1983]

Lucas was never an attacking midfielder though... he did/does have attacking instincts though.

[Matt8Pie]

Lucas was never an attacking midfielder though... the did have attacking instincts though.

I never saw him at Gremio but it's widely acknowledged he was a lot more attacking minded which is why I hesitated to call him an attacking midfielder.

[kaz1983]

I never saw him at Gremio but it's widely acknowledged he was a lot more attacking minded which is why I hesitated to call him an attacking midfielder.

Fair enough, his attacking instincts showed more when he was in Brazil.....

Rafa could have turned him into an attacking midfielder that for sure -he had the qualities needed.

[Aristotle]

The amount of horse the Mancs that is peddled by some of the Lucas-detractors in this forum could fertilize the Sahara.

 

[drpepe]

I never saw him at Gremio but it's widely acknowledged he was a lot more attacking minded which is why I hesitated to call him an attacking midfielder.

Fair enough, his attacking instincts showed more when he was in Brazil.....

Rafa could have turned him into an attacking midfielder that for sure -he had the qualities needed.

over the years he has always looked to be nailed on as a defensive-minded player for me - seems to favour the short passing game and to like the tackle and a bit of rough housing 

I didn't seem him playing in brazil either, tbf he was only playing there for a couple of seasons and scored less than a handful of league goals

but he does his current job very well and is well suited to it , imo.