Topic: Lawless Liverpool?

[Son of Spion]

I’m down the waterfront multiple times a day both with and without the dog. Have been for last 4 years (not all that time with the dog like!) and never seen a bit of trouble down there.

It gets busy later on a Fri and Sat, esp when the weather is nicer, but been and sat down there with drinks and for drunken walks and not seen a thing.

That’s not to say it’s not happening, of course it is, but they are sporadic occurrences rather than the norm IMO.

I'd agree with that.

When we consider the amount of people that are out and about in the city centre, then look at the amount of actual incidents, then incidents are relatively rare.

Those who are victim to them or witness them will find no consolation in that, of course, but I'd certainly agree that they are sporadic.

Also, with social media and local media websites, virtually everything that goes on gets reported now, so it gives the perception that it's absolutely horrible out there all of the time, which isn't really the case.

In my purely anecdotal experience, town used to be a whole lot worse in the 70s and 80s than it is now. Again, no consolation to those who have run into trouble through no fault of their own whilst in town in recent times, though.

[Son of Spion]

I live in what is pretty well off area, missus thinks its really safe, yet over the years there has been two shootings in our street, one two doors away when shots were fired through a bedroom window, one about 70yds away were a fella was shot in the legs with a shotgun and a drive by on the main road where a shot went through a window and killed someone. There was also a shooting/murder in the town centre. All were related to the drug gangs out of Stretford.

The shotgun one was like you describe, she thought it was fireworks, I rang her as I walked to work to tell her the road was corderned off and Plod were there.

I threw back her "You're not in Liverpool" line she uses when I'm security conscious with "No its safer in Liverpool"

Liverpool is definitely safer than Manchester. I say that through anecdotal experience, but also because my cousin married a Manc copper who has policed in both cities. Even he said Liverpool is far safer. I think official stats back this up too.

When it comes to shootings, I don't think there is any such thing as 'safe areas' anymore. The overwhelming majority are organised crime / drugs motivated, and an awful lot of the people involved in such things tend to move out to nice areas. Coming from North Liverpool I'd see this with many of them moving to places like Maghull, Crosby, Formby etc.. When these people tread on each others toes, windows get shot out or worse. Really nice areas have seen fire bombings, shootings and even Kenny Dalglish's road in Birkdale saw an attack where a hand grenade was to be used but, thankfully, got discarded on Kenny's garden wall instead. That attack was on a 'local businessman' who lived in the house Raheem Sterling went on to buy when at Liverpool. I know of similar attacks in Maghull, the exclusive Moor Park in Crosby and a few in the mega exclusive Caldy on the Wirral.

[Indomitable_Carp]

In my purely anecdotal experience, town used to be a whole lot worse in the 70s and 80s than it is now. Again, no consolation to those who have run into trouble through no fault of their own whilst in town in recent times, though.

I couldn´t comment on town specifically in the 70s and 80s, but to add to your anecdotal experience there is plenty of cold hard data that shows Britain was a far more violent place right across the board in the 80s (harder to find data from the 70s) - and it is only makes sense that this seeped into town.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingseptember2019

Number of violent crimes in 1981 : 2,063,000
Number of violent crimes in 1995 : 4,465,000 (Peak)
Number of violent crimes in 2019 : 1,285,000

Number of murders in 2003 : 1,047
Number of murders in 2019 : 617

What unfortunately does seem to have risen over the last decade (harder to find data for 70s and 80s) is gun and knife crime.

I think you are probably spot on that perceptions of crime are enhanced by the 24/7 news cycle. More locally the fact our only source of local news is an absolute gutter rag that revels in crime stories doesn´t help.

All that said I have definitely seem some crazy stuff in Liverpool in my time, and/or know of it. And if you do live in areas where a lot of crimes do happen or are on the increase, of course you are going to come out with a different opinion as ultimately lived experience trumps statistics if you are on the recieving end.

[redbyrdz]

I think the perception of violence has also changed, and the classification of what is a "crime". Children were regulalry beaten, women were beaten, and both was seen as normal. Arguments in pubs were "taken outside". Womem who were raped were probably laughed at and told it was their own fault, when reported to the police.

Or technological advancements have changed things - cars are faster, and safer for those inside. That made speeding both easier and feeling less dangerous. In my perception, driving standards have dropped, for example stopping at red lights or giving way at junctions - but maybe that is just because there are now more cars.

[rob1966]

I think the perception of violence has also changed, and the classification of what is a "crime". Children were regulalry beaten, women were beaten, and both was seen as normal. Arguments in pubs were "taken outside". Womem who were raped were probably laughed at and told it was their own fault, when reported to the police.

Or technological advancements have changed things - cars are faster, and safer for those inside. That made speeding both easier and feeling less dangerous. In my perception, driving standards have dropped, for example stopping at red lights or giving way at junctions - but maybe that is just because there are now more cars.

This has definitely got worse over the past 10 years, red lights are like an option these days. I started driving professionally (ha!) in 1988 and I used to do 35 - 40k a year and red lights were respected, but in the last 5 years especially I see someone go through nearly every set of red lights I get too, there were temp lights by me this week, we were trying to cross, but the one set went green and 4 cars were still coming through the roadworks from the set that had gone red. Last night I saw a car just totally ignore a red, Taxi coming the other way missed it by an inch.

[Mumm-Ra]

Rob has an alert that goes off whenever anyone mentions driving standards 

[Son of Spion]

Rob has an alert that goes off whenever anyone mentions driving standards 

Rob --> 

[Son of Spion]

I couldn´t comment on town specifically in the 70s and 80s, but to add to your anecdotal experience there is plenty of cold hard data that shows Britain was a far more violent place right across the board in the 80s (harder to find data from the 70s) - and it is only makes sense that this seeped into town.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingseptember2019

Number of violent crimes in 1981 : 2,063,000
Number of violent crimes in 1995 : 4,465,000 (Peak)
Number of violent crimes in 2019 : 1,285,000

Number of murders in 2003 : 1,047
Number of murders in 2019 : 617

What unfortunately does seem to have risen over the last decade (harder to find data for 70s and 80s) is gun and knife crime.

I think you are probably spot on that perceptions of crime are enhanced by the 24/7 news cycle. More locally the fact our only source of local news is an absolute gutter rag that revels in crime stories doesn´t help.

All that said I have definitely seem some crazy stuff in Liverpool in my time, and/or know of it. And if you do live in areas where a lot of crimes do happen or are on the increase, of course you are going to come out with a different opinion as ultimately lived experience trumps statistics if you are on the recieving end.

I think the 80s were often quite brutal. That was my perception of it anyway. Where I lived seemed quite lawless too, whereas the same area today feels much safer.

Having said that, gun and knife crime has risen dramatically. Guns were pretty much unheard of locally back then, but any Tom, Dick or Harry can get hold of one now.

Crime has always been there, but I suppose the nature of it changes with the years. Perceptions of it too.

Talking of knife crime. The Echo has reported another stabbing in town last night. A man stabbed twice in the legs on Wood Street near Concert Square. A 24 year-old Liverpool man was arrested. He also bit one copper on the hand and another on the shoulder. This is the third reported stabbing in town within a week.

[rob1966]

Rob has an alert that goes off whenever anyone mentions driving standards 

If I could have gone straight into traffic, I'd have been a plod. I'd be a right c*nt too, licences would be going through the shredder left right and centre

[red annie]

I think the perception of violence has also changed, and the classification of what is a "crime". Children were regulalry beaten, women were beaten, and both was seen as normal. Arguments in pubs were "taken outside". Womem who were raped were probably laughed at and told it was their own fault, when reported to the police.

Or technological advancements have changed things - cars are faster, and safer for those inside. That made speeding both easier and feeling less dangerous. In my perception, driving standards have dropped, for example stopping at red lights or giving way at junctions - but maybe that is just because there are now more cars.

And your point is?

All of the above behaviours are criminal and by the letter of the law were 20 years ago

[redbyrdz]

And your point is?

All of the above behaviours are criminal and by the letter of the law were 20 years ago

20 years ago was 2001, we're talking 40-50 years ago.

Society was more used to violence then, but it wasn't registered as violence. Our perception has changed.

[B0151?]

Pretty sure gun violence was much higher in 90s early 00s no? A lot of high profile underworld shootings then wasn't there. I'm sure I saw a stat of gun violence being considerably higher across the UK back then too. Although it has been going up the past few years

[rob1966]

Pretty sure gun violence was much higher in 90s early 00s no? A lot of high profile underworld shootings then wasn't there. I'm sure I saw a stat of gun violence being considerably higher across the UK back then too. Although it has been going up the past few years

Yeah, even after the handgun ban, it went up. Then in about 2004, they reclassified the offences to remove fakes and air guns out of the stats which allowed them to fall. Illegal Guns never went away though and it has been raising again. Eastern Europe provides a lot of handguns now, the get imported in components so are hard to detect. Still one of the lowest firearm use rates in Europe though.

[So… Howard Philips]

One less criminal, albeit an extremely stupid one, to worry about;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-57531646

[Son of Spion]

Yet another homophobic attack in town in the early hours of Thursday morning. Near the cesspit that is Concert Square. Some clown from Bolton arrested for it.

[Huytonian]

20 years ago was 2001, we're talking 40-50 years ago.

Society was more used to violence then, but it wasn't registered as violence. Our perception has changed.

Absolutely…you might find this interesting

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000vsdx

[redbyrdz]

Looks good, thanks! This made me laugh though:

Psychologist Steven Pinker believes we may be living in the most peaceful period in human existence. He explores the reasons why this might be and whether it could be prevented altogether.

 

[So… Howard Philips]

Yet another homophobic attack in town in the early hours of Thursday morning. Near the cesspit that is Concert Square. Some clown from Bolton arrested for it.

Even more reason to quarantine the fuckers! Covid on top of Fat Sam - Lord help and save us.

[AndyMuller]

Yet another homophobic attack in town in the early hours of Thursday morning. Near the cesspit that is Concert Square. Some clown from Bolton arrested for it.

Need to close the borders to stop the wools coming in.

[Snail]

Need to close the borders to stop the wools coming in.

Was walking down Bold Street yesterday early evening and got accosted by some chicken-legged roid monsters from this side of Manchester demanding I told them how to get to Concert Square

[AndyMuller]

Was walking down Bold Street yesterday early evening and got accosted by some chicken-legged roid monsters from this side of Manchester demanding I told them how to get to Concert Square

Annoying! I remember over Christmas last year because of the stupid tier system the government had in place, every bastard decided to come to Liverpool!

Should just put all the OOTers in Concert Square with a cage around it 

[ianburns252]

Annoying! I remember over Christmas last year because of the stupid tier system the government had in place, every bastard decided to come to Liverpool!

Should just put all the OOTers in Concert Square with a cage around it 

Could be the inaugural "UFC Liverpool" event. 1000 OOTs enter, only 1 will survive...

[Mumm-Ra]

Was walking down Bold Street yesterday early evening and got accosted by some chicken-legged roid monsters from this side of Manchester demanding I told them how to get to Concert Square

They asked you directions? Nerve of the bastards

[rob1966]

They asked you directions? Nerve of the bastards

No-one from Greater Manchester is supposed to travel outside the area unless it is necessary, due to the high levels of the Delta variant in the area - going on the piss in Liverpool is not necessary travel.

[Tesco tearaway]

Was walking down Bold Street yesterday early evening and got accosted by some chicken-legged roid monsters from this side of Manchester demanding I told them how to get to Concert Square

They asked you directions? Nerve of the bastards

They didn't ask.

[Son of Spion]

Yet another homophobic assault in town to add to appalling tally in recent weeks. This time a female has been hospitalised after being assaulted on Upper Newington. Ten men involved and a 34 year-old Toxteth 'man' arrested.

[Son of Spion]

There's a march in town this afternoon in protest at the current string of homophobic assaults in the city centre. Organisers reporting death threats against them.

[So… Howard Philips]

There's a march in town this afternoon in protest at the current string of homophobic assaults in the city centre. Organisers reporting death threats against them.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-57568691

What's going on?

[So… Howard Philips]

Scrambler bike arsehole jailed for killing a woman in Court Hey Park.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-57561877

I used to take the kids there when they were little. In fact I've a photo of my son's third birthday present - a pedal police car - taken a few days before the big day as I was leaving to start the drive to Rome 1977 (not to be confused with 1984) the next morning.

[Tesco tearaway]

Scrambler bike arsehole jailed for killing a woman in Court Hey Park.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-57561877

I used to take the kids there when they were little. In fact I've a photo of my son's third birthday present - a pedal police car - taken a few days before the big day as I was leaving to start the drive to Rome 1977 (not to be confused with 1984) the next morning.

I hope he gets the living shit kicked out of him every single day he's inside 

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Scrambler bike arsehole jailed for killing a woman in Court Hey Park.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-57561877

I used to take the kids there when they were little. In fact I've a photo of my son's third birthday present - a pedal police car - taken a few days before the big day as I was leaving to start the drive to Rome 1977 (not to be confused with 1984) the next morning.

She was just out taking a walk on her lunch break and this dickhead came from nowhere and killed her. She was a work colleague of my wife. The family are devastated, she was their only child. Heartbreaking.

[So… Howard Philips]

She was just out taking a walk on her lunch break and this dickhead came from nowhere and killed her. She was a work colleague of my wife. The family are devastated, she was their only child. Heartbreaking.

Yet another example of the entitled  irresponsible arseholes on their bikes, e scooters etc making life miserable for those just trying to get on with their lives.

[AlphaDelta]

She was just out taking a walk on her lunch break and this dickhead came from nowhere and killed her. She was a work colleague of my wife. The family are devastated, she was their only child. Heartbreaking.

I live in Huyton and on the day that happened I was working from home, much like this poor girl who was killed. I remember vividly hearing a scrambler go up my road twice, proper gunning it, to the point of me looking out the window to see if I could see the twat. The next day I heard what had happened on the news, the girl had been hit about 30 minutes after I heard the bike.
I phoned 101 and reported it to the police, the original call handler wasn't arsed in the slightest and pretty took my number then binned me off. A few days later a traffic cop called me and asked a lot of questions.

He'll do half his sentence, yet that girl was cut down in the prime of her life by simply going for a stroll on her dinner, it makes me sick.

[Indomitable_Carp]

I live in Huyton and on the day that happened I was working from home, much like this poor girl who was killed. I remember vividly hearing a scrambler go up my road twice, proper gunning it, to the point of me looking out the window to see if I could see the twat. The next day I heard what had happened on the news, the girl had been hit about 30 minutes after I heard the bike.
I phoned 101 and reported it to the police, the original call handler wasn't arsed in the slightest and pretty took my number then binned me off. A few days later a traffic cop called me and asked a lot of questions.

He'll do half his sentence, yet that girl was cut down in the prime of her life by simply going for a stroll on her dinner, it makes me sick.

The other thing that strikes me about the sentence is the fact he is only banned from driving for 8 years (which is the length of his supposed sentence anyway). People like that should never be allowed on the roads again.

Yet another example of the entitled  irresponsible arseholes on their bikes, e scooters etc making life miserable for those just trying to get on with their lives.

I wouldn´t be lumping e-scooters in with these reckless dick´eds who fly around on their scramblers and quad bikes. Anyone who has seen groups of the latter bombing around knows they are a world apart.

I´ve seen these c*nts tearing through childrens playgrounds.

[John C]

Is anyone a member of your local Next Door forum?
The amount of reports I'm seeing about attempted break-ins and people scoping property around our area is worrying.

[redbyrdz]

Is anyone a member of your local Next Door forum?
The amount of reports I'm seeing about attempted break-ins and people scoping property around our area is worrying.

Yeah. Not sure how many are real, and how many are people overreacting. I'm a bit uneasy about it - I saw a post this morning with a picture of a couple that apparently had "acted suspiciously". Imagine they are innocent? I'm as cynic as you can get with the whole justice system, but I wish people would report it to the police, and not pronounce someone guilty by social media. That doesn't mean you shouldn't keep your wits about you, of course.

[rob1966]

Yeah. Not sure how many are real, and how many are people overreacting. I'm a bit uneasy about it - I saw a post this morning with a picture of a couple that apparently had "acted suspiciously". Imagine they are innocent? I'm as cynic as you can get with the whole justice system, but I wish people would report it to the police, and not pronounce someone guilty by social media. That doesn't mean you shouldn't keep your wits about you, of course.

Social media is full of uneducated spreaders of nonsense. There was a spate of warnings on the local postcode group about paint markings on the floor, burglars marking you out/dog thieves etc.



Its the fucking utility companies marking the streets for works, cables, pipes, drains etc

[AndyMuller]

Horrible about the 23 year old lad from Kirkby dying off getting punched in town.

All over a taxi aswell apparently.

[rob1966]

Horrible about the 23 year old lad from Kirkby dying off getting punched in town.

All over a taxi aswell apparently.

Absolute twats.

A workmate of mine was killed in the same way in Bolton years ago, one punch and hit his head as he fell and died. Never caught his killer as far as I can remember. Just a waste of a life.

[Millie]

My brother in law was killed by one punch, fell backward out of train and hit his head on the platform.  Died about 12 days later.  Left two young kids and a devastated family.