Author Topic: Youth and Under 23 Thread  (Read 12332372 times)

Offline ouestlereferee

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #400 on: February 10, 2008, 09:19:25 pm »
I seriously don't think Rafa would sign a 17-year old in order to make money of him. Especially a totally unknown one.

so that means he signed him with the hope of playing for the first team, knowing that he doesn't have a lot of pace.  given that lack of pace appears to be the biggest chink in his armour based on his displays so far, you have to wonder why he loaned him out?

i'm not having a go, i'm just trying to make sense of the whole situation (it's not as if rafa hasn't baffled me before, gonzalez's departure, for example)

Offline suede lady

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #401 on: February 12, 2008, 08:46:17 am »
so that means he signed him with the hope of playing for the first team, knowing that he doesn't have a lot of pace.  given that lack of pace appears to be the biggest chink in his armour based on his displays so far, you have to wonder why he loaned him out?

i'm not having a go, i'm just trying to make sense of the whole situation (it's not as if rafa hasn't baffled me before, gonzalez's departure, for example)

when you sign players that young it is usually always about hoping they will be good enough. They may have qualities which makes you think they will make it, but it is a bit of a lottery to be honest.

Hobbs lack of pace (is he really that much slower than Carra?) means that he does not have the recovery options available to say Richards at Man City, who can mess up rather badly but does have the pace to get back and correct the situation. Instead Hobbs needs to know were to be in what situations, he needs to read the game better. In this case there is no substitute for experience. No amount of technical training can teach you this. And that is way Hobbs is on loan - purely to get gametime, more experience and more matches under his belt. With Skrtel brought in and Agger nearing a return (it looked like that then at least) there were limited chances for Hobbs to get a game. Rafa wisely thought it better for him to go on loan and play regularly rather than be stuck in the reserves. It would also suggest that his passing was deemed to be up to scratch - he had learnt to play more cultivated while training with first team. He was much improved according to several players, apparently to the level were it was deemed better for his development to go get matches.

Offline rocco

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #402 on: February 12, 2008, 08:49:07 am »
You can't have hard and fast rules, I agree.

But Guthrie is playing a reasonable number of PL games and getting a bit of European experience too.  Obviously, LFC has decided that is beneficial, and it would be hard to argue.  The matches are much more skillful (as well as more competitive) than the Reserver League.  Maybe LFC's coaching is superior, but it is a worthwhile trade off for a 20 year old.

But Antwi and Hobbs are both younger.  Antwi is playing in the middle of Tier 3, and Hobbs at the bottom of Tier 2.  They will play in matches that are more competitive, but less skillful, than the reserve league.  At their age, I'd like to see them work on technical ability.  And just being around the Liverpool team ought to breed competitive instinct.  The coaching at Liverpool is bound to be superior, and it is a shame that two 19 year olds are missing out on it.

HOWEVER, I keep coming back to the point that what I'm saying about Antwi and Hobbs applies if and only if LFC sees them as long term prospects.  If we already think that they will not make it here, then we've done the right thing by farming them out.



Some of our best players used to come from the lower leagues..

Offline Sarge

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #403 on: February 12, 2008, 10:15:28 am »
Pace in the back 4, what pace? Sami is not Jesse Owens and Henchoz is as quick as Sami. Carragher is not the quickest either. So all in all we have not had tht pace in our back 4.

Hyypia, Henchoz, Carragher, Ruddock, Wright. All lacking decent pace. So if Hobbs is not quick he is just joining a very good bunch of slow arses.

when you sign players that young it is usually always about hoping they will be good enough. They may have qualities which makes you think they will make it, but it is a bit of a lottery to be honest.

Yes.
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Offline Sarge

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #404 on: February 12, 2008, 10:18:29 am »
Some of our best players used to come from the lower leagues..

Who was the last player we signed from a lower League team that made it? I agree with your comment it is just a question of an answer i do not know.
Y.N.W.A.

Offline Sarge

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #405 on: February 12, 2008, 12:07:03 pm »
Hopefully with the 7 subs we will see alot more of the Youth/Reserve players feature on the bench in the Cups.
Y.N.W.A.

Offline ouestlereferee

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #406 on: February 12, 2008, 12:18:55 pm »
Who was the last player we signed from a lower League team that made it? I agree with your comment it is just a question of an answer i do not know.

Any of the youngsters we took from Everton ;)

Offline ouestlereferee

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #407 on: February 12, 2008, 12:22:34 pm »
Pace in the back 4, what pace? Sami is not Jesse Owens and Henchoz is as quick as Sami. Carragher is not the quickest either. So all in all we have not had tht pace in our back 4.

Hyypia, Henchoz, Carragher, Ruddock, Wright. All lacking decent pace. So if Hobbs is not quick he is just joining a very good bunch of slow arses.

Yes.

Well it depends what you define as good, Sarge.  I love Carra, defensively, and I think he's better at the tackling etc than either of Arsenal's CBs, for example.  However Arsenal have only conceded one more goal this season than us, and for the on-the-ball ability that Toure-and-Gallas offer, which I'm sure is well worth more than one goal scored per season, I'd prefer to see us moving in that direction.   Realistically you need Centre-Halves with pace to do this - not just ability on the ball......

Offline Sarge

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #408 on: February 12, 2008, 12:27:20 pm »
Well it depends what you define as good, Sarge.  I love Carra, defensively, and I think he's better at the tackling etc than either of Arsenal's CBs, for example.  However Arsenal have only conceded one more goal this season than us, and for the on-the-ball ability that Toure-and-Gallas offer, which I'm sure is well worth more than one goal scored per season, I'd prefer to see us moving in that direction.   Realistically you need Centre-Halves with pace to do this - not just ability on the ball......

It's a fair argument but i feel quality defenders with excellent positional awareness do not need to be sprinters.
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Offline ouestlereferee

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #409 on: February 12, 2008, 12:30:33 pm »
It's a fair argument but i feel quality defenders with excellent positional awareness do not need to be sprinters.

For the defending component, yes.  Is there a good ball-player around who has no pace?

Offline suede lady

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #410 on: February 12, 2008, 12:34:05 pm »
For the defending component, yes.  Is there a good ball-player around who has no pace?

well Alonso is not the fastest is he?

Offline ouestlereferee

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #411 on: February 12, 2008, 12:39:03 pm »
well Alonso is not the fastest is he?

I was talking about centre-halves, specifically.

Offline Sarge

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #412 on: February 12, 2008, 12:40:04 pm »
For the defending component, yes.  Is there a good ball-player around who has no pace?

I'm sure their is. But if you ask me would i prefer Carra/Agger too Gallas/Toure i would say yes. Our CB's are not the squad problem n my book.
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Offline ouestlereferee

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #413 on: February 12, 2008, 12:43:03 pm »
I'm sure their is. But if you ask me would i prefer Carra/Agger too Gallas/Toure i would say yes. Our CB's are not the squad problem n my book.

If Skrtel can perform like he did against Chelsea regularly, I'd rather have Skrtel-Agger at the back.  Solid defensively and able to play the ball out from the back...

Offline Sarge

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #414 on: February 12, 2008, 12:45:10 pm »
If Skrtel can perform like he did against Chelsea regularly, I'd rather have Skrtel-Agger at the back.  Solid defensively and able to play the ball out from the back...

I have no problem with that, the best for the team is always going to get my support even if it means Carragher is dropped to the bench.
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Offline ouestlereferee

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #415 on: February 12, 2008, 12:49:00 pm »
I have no problem with that, the best for the team is always going to get my support even if it means Carragher is dropped to the bench.

Agree.  I love him as a defender, and I don't know if anyone's better than him at it, but I do get the impression he costs us a few goals over the season, by not being able to help us build attacks from the back....   and probably that's more goals than he prevents over and above what a Skrtel / Toure / Gallas may offer...

Offline Sarge

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #416 on: February 12, 2008, 12:56:06 pm »
Are Hobbs, Huth, San Jose and other CB's we have at Youth/Reserve Level any use?
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Offline Crazyhorse7778

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #417 on: February 12, 2008, 12:57:44 pm »
Are Hobbs, Huth, San Jose and other CB's we have at Youth/Reserve Level any use?

Huth and San Jose have formed a very solid partnership in the reserves from what I've seen. San Jose is obviously rated higher than Huth though, judging by his appearance on the bench on sunday.
anyone know what actually happened to ribery's face?
Just a routine tackle by Skrtel

Offline Sarge

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #418 on: February 12, 2008, 01:04:33 pm »
Huth and San Jose have formed a very solid partnership in the reserves from what I've seen. San Jose is obviously rated higher than Huth though, judging by his appearance on the bench on sunday.

Does not say much for Hobbs.
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Offline AussieG

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #419 on: February 12, 2008, 01:08:00 pm »
Does not say much for Hobbs.

Hobbs is on loan otherwise he would have been there

Offline Crazyhorse7778

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #420 on: February 12, 2008, 01:09:44 pm »
Does not say much for Hobbs.

Well, hes on loan now, but when he was in the reserves he looked comfortable and impressive, thats why he was given a chance in the first team.

He did reasonably well in the first team which you probably saw for yourself.
anyone know what actually happened to ribery's face?
Just a routine tackle by Skrtel

Offline i_wun_bite

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #421 on: February 12, 2008, 01:12:19 pm »
I've not been following the youth/reserve matches, but for those who have, can u guys kindly share who are the top 3 talents in the youth/reserve side and why are they tops? What are they good in and stuff! Would really appreciate it! Thanks mates!

Offline Sarge

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #422 on: February 12, 2008, 01:12:52 pm »
Hobbs is on loan otherwise he would have been there


Well, hes on loan now, but when he was in the reserves he looked comfortable and impressive, thats why he was given a chance in the first team.

He did reasonably well in the first team which you probably saw for yourself.

Of course i forgot about that.
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Offline Sarge

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #423 on: February 12, 2008, 01:13:47 pm »
I've not been following the youth/reserve matches, but for those who have, can u guys kindly share who are the top 3 talents in the youth/reserve side and why are they tops? What are they good in and stuff! Would really appreciate it! Thanks mates!

Read this thread, some great reading in it.
Y.N.W.A.

Offline bushy2812

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #424 on: February 12, 2008, 01:16:27 pm »
Does not say much for Hobbs.

How do you figure that? Hobbs is out on loan, if he wasn't he would have been on the bench as he was earlier in the season.


Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #425 on: February 12, 2008, 01:16:57 pm »
Can anyone translate Finnish or knows something about Santeri Mäkinen??

Offline Crazyhorse7778

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #426 on: February 12, 2008, 01:17:19 pm »
How do you figure that? Hobbs is out on loan, if he wasn't he would have been on the bench as he was earlier in the season.



He forgot Hobbs was on loan.
anyone know what actually happened to ribery's face?
Just a routine tackle by Skrtel

Offline Sarge

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #427 on: February 12, 2008, 01:21:43 pm »
'World's best' targets Liverpool place
by Adam Marshall, 12 February 2008
 
Rookie Liverpool keeper Dean Bouzanis has targeted a place in the first team squad within the next couple of years as his stock continues to rise.

The Australian media have dubbed him 'the next Mark Bosnich' and Rafa Benitez has already described the Sydney-born goalie as the best Under-20 keeper in the world.

Bouzanis is also the subject of a tug-o-war between Australia and Greece after playing for Greece at Under-17 level.

"It's true that Benitez told me when I signed my contract that he regards me as the best under-20 keeper in the world," he told The Australian.

"He really believes in me.

"I've signed a professional contract and I believe that within two or three years I'll make the Liverpool firsts squad."

Bouzanis is Liverpool's FA Youth Cup number one after returning from a loan spell at Sydney FC and is clearly a man in demand.

"I haven't decided yet for which national team I'm going to play," he added.

"I went to Greece to see the facilities, to talk to the trainer, to play in these friendlies, and I'll speak to my agent to finally decide.

"I've been a part of junior Australian teams, but I'm still at an age that I have time to choose between Greece and Australia.

"There are three reasons to choose Greece.

"First, due to my origin; second, because it's the European champion; and third, because the trips won't be too far.

"But I must confess that I'm still in direct touch with the authorities back home because they are obviously keen for me to choose Australia."
Y.N.W.A.

Offline ouestlereferee

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #428 on: February 12, 2008, 01:32:40 pm »
I've not been following the youth/reserve matches, but for those who have, can u guys kindly share who are the top 3 talents in the youth/reserve side and why are they tops? What are they good in and stuff! Would really appreciate it! Thanks mates!

Depends what you mean!

Ressies:
Pacheco for me is the best, he's quick, got great touch, and close control, always seems like he has lots of time on the ball - got loads of vision for playing others through.  In terms of comparable players you'd be looking at somewhere around Messi, Aguero, Luis Garcia, or Owen.  Aguero is probably the closest comparison as he's happy to finish, create & finish, or creat & assist.  I list all those players because of the areas he likes to pick the ball up in, and what he does with it whilst he's on it.  I'm not saying he's as good as any of them, but that would give you an idea.   Bruna is supposed to be very similar but I've seen hardly anything of him as he hasn't played that many minutes.

Insua is the most likely to be a first-team replacement the soonest, a young Argenine left-back, he's quick but not lightning, very good at getting forward, and passing the ball.  Many believe he is presently better than Riise & Aurelio and are frustrated why he's not in the first team.

Spearing & Nemeth are actually possibly the two most important players to the ressies, but whether they'll make the step up or not is not clear - Spearing is good enough for the PL, IMO, but possibly not for Liverpool, as he's not better than the 4 CMs ahead of him.   Nemeth probably will ultimately be better than Kuyt & Voronin.  I would guess he is at the moment too, and try him out, sooner rather than later, but I could also imagine he may struggle with the step up.  Fowler-like in style, he doesn't have great pace, and whilst he scores at this level, like Kuyt has found, he may he doesn't have enough ability to get as many scoring chances at the higher level.

Youths:
Ajdarevic is the man here.  He's basically a Riquelme type player who looks like Leto, Patrick Berger, or Paletta...   he pulls all the strings for the youths.  A wonderful player - like Pacheco will definitely get a run in the first team at some point - could end up being as good as Riquelme, but as with a lot of these youths, you never know.

Nathan Ecclestone is a striker who has just made his debut for the ressies and scored from the penalty spot.  He's got a lot of pace, but great close control, and first touch.  Bags of confidence.  I'd be surprised if he didn't get to at least the fringes of the first team at some point...

David Amoo is another - he was U14 100m champion for London and the South East a few years back, I think.  He looks like a smaller version of Babel, playing on the right wing, as he's a striker and we have a lot of strikers in the youths.  I'm not sure about his first touch, if it's good enough for the PL, he'll be a dangerous player to have because he really is proper-quick i.e. like Agbonlahor.   That said, against the Arsenal youths (who had 3 PL players) he looked highly effective and caused lots of problems

Lauri Dalla Valle is a young Finn who just signed a couple of months back.  He's only 15/16 so it'll probably be a long time before you see much of him.  I would imagine he becomes the U18s playmaker when Ajdarevic moves to the ressies...   Whilst Ajdarevic is an attacking midfielder (always faces the goal), Dalla Valle is more of a 2nd striker - reminds me of a younger, quicker Bergkamp.   Hopefully he'll be good, but it's very very very early days for him.

Offline bushy2812

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #429 on: February 12, 2008, 01:47:24 pm »
He forgot Hobbs was on loan.

Yeah I am having a slow day............sorry about that ;)


Offline Sarge

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #430 on: February 12, 2008, 01:53:06 pm »
Yes ok then, going by what i have read on this thread our best XI at present in development is,

                                             Bouzanis

Irwin                Hobbs                               San Jose             Insua

Anderson         Plessiss                             Gutrie                 Leto

                Nemeth                                                Pacheco

Ajdarevic, Ecclestone, Amoo, Huth and Spearing all making a name for themselves.
Y.N.W.A.

Offline Sarge

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #431 on: February 12, 2008, 01:56:50 pm »
Adding to my post above i feel Brouwer, El Zair, Guthrie, Anderson, Leto could all see the door come the summer. How much will we get for them i cannot say.
Y.N.W.A.

Offline rossipersempre

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #432 on: February 12, 2008, 01:58:41 pm »
The Australian media have dubbed him 'the next Mark Bosnich'
Aye let's hope so eh? ;)
My scouse, the often busted but seldom battered Mr Flabby Whore Alien. Who will not send in cottoned wool, bubbled rap, shiny sliver spaced blanket and sum beefy Bovril to keep it warm and safe and snag as bag in a rag? Oh Whore yours is a sweeter leftish peg

Offline rossipersempre

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #433 on: February 12, 2008, 02:00:38 pm »
Adding to my post above i feel Brouwer, El Zair, Guthrie, Anderson, Leto could all see the door come the summer. How much will we get for them i cannot say.
Anderson is going nowhere. Neither is Leto I would imagine depends on the Kewell situation probably.
My scouse, the often busted but seldom battered Mr Flabby Whore Alien. Who will not send in cottoned wool, bubbled rap, shiny sliver spaced blanket and sum beefy Bovril to keep it warm and safe and snag as bag in a rag? Oh Whore yours is a sweeter leftish peg

Offline Crazyhorse7778

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #434 on: February 12, 2008, 02:02:05 pm »
Yes ok then, going by what i have read on this thread our best XI at present in development is,

                                             Bouzanis

Irwin                Hobbs                               San Jose             Insua

Anderson         Plessiss                             Gutrie                 Leto

                Nemeth                                                Pacheco

Ajdarevic, Ecclestone, Amoo, Huth and Spearing all making a name for themselves.

Alot of people would have Steven Derby ahead of Steven Irwin.
anyone know what actually happened to ribery's face?
Just a routine tackle by Skrtel

Offline I_hate_Mancs!

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #435 on: February 12, 2008, 02:03:55 pm »
Hansen... I always wait for it to say Alan not Martin ;D ;D
"Oh Manchester is full of shit, oh Manchester is full of shit, oh shit, shit and bullshit, oh Manchester is full of SHIT!
Der der der der der der der derrrrrrrrr
der der der der der der der derrrrrrrrr
They donīt care about Rafa, they donīt care about fans, Liverpool Football club is in the wrong hands!
Amen

Offline ouestlereferee

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #436 on: February 12, 2008, 02:07:01 pm »
Yes ok then, going by what i have read on this thread our best XI at present in development is,

                                             Bouzanis

Irwin                Hobbs                               San Jose             Insua

Anderson         Plessiss                             Gutrie                 Leto

                Nemeth                                                Pacheco

Ajdarevic, Ecclestone, Amoo, Huth and Spearing all making a name for themselves.

Sorry Sarge but how you can build such a team without Ajdarevic is beyond me.  He's the main man for the U18s and he's stated to play now for the ressies...

Look at this on 45 secs - how long is it since you've seen as good a delivery even in the first team?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyzgQBnM37I

Offline ouestlereferee

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #437 on: February 12, 2008, 02:07:50 pm »
Hansen... I always wait for it to say Alan not Martin ;D ;D

I feel that way about Ayala & Huth too....

Offline Crazyhorse7778

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #438 on: February 12, 2008, 02:10:20 pm »
Sorry Sarge but how you can build such a team without Ajdarevic is beyond me.  He's the main man for the U18s and he's stated to play now for the ressies...

Look at this on 45 secs - how long is it since you've seen as good a delivery even in the first team?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyzgQBnM37I

Hes put Guthrie in there because he is further along in his development, has played quite a few games in the premiership, and arguably been one of bolton's best players this year.
anyone know what actually happened to ribery's face?
Just a routine tackle by Skrtel

Offline ouestlereferee

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #439 on: February 12, 2008, 02:12:57 pm »
Hes put Guthrie in there because he is further along in his development, has played quite a few games in the Premier League, and arguably been one of bolton's best players this year.

not going to argue with that  but i think Ajdarevic has more natural ability that the other CMs and as such, he'd be the first i'd have put on that teamsheet.  I'd have him there over Plessis.