Author Topic: The Klopp Template  (Read 1086590 times)

Offline afc tukrish

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1760 on: October 30, 2018, 04:36:07 pm »
If you don't know gegenpressing by now....

Hopefully, Zeljko will sell more than 150 copies...
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Offline Straw hat pirate

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1761 on: October 30, 2018, 04:46:04 pm »
Was there any reason given behind buvac anyway?

Offline El Lobo

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1762 on: October 30, 2018, 04:49:56 pm »
Was there any reason given behind buvac anyway?

Got pissed off being an assistant I think. Someone could have gone to him 'Zeljko, you’ve been in the business twelve years. Can you spare us a moment to tell us how to run a team? How to keep them task-orientated as well as happy.' But they didn’t. That’s the tragedy.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1763 on: October 30, 2018, 04:58:27 pm »
Was there any reason given behind buvac anyway?

No, Monkey D. Luffy

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Offline christofu

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1764 on: October 30, 2018, 05:35:45 pm »
Hopefully, Zeljko will sell more than 150 copies...

he goes by the pseudonym T.C.F.K.A.B. these days

Offline afc tukrish

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1765 on: October 30, 2018, 06:01:04 pm »
he goes by the pseudonym T.C.F.K.A.B. these days

Better than ZelBu...
Since haste quite Schorsch, but Liverpool are genuine fight pigs...

Offline afc tukrish

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1766 on: October 30, 2018, 06:01:34 pm »
Was there any reason given behind buvac anyway?

There will never be a Zeljko than can swim faster than a shark...
Since haste quite Schorsch, but Liverpool are genuine fight pigs...

Offline Austin Powers

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1767 on: October 30, 2018, 06:26:35 pm »
Was there any reason given behind buvac anyway?

Not happy with the change in dressing room culture.
He'd created an atmosphere where he was a friend first, boss second. Probably an entertainer, third.

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1768 on: October 30, 2018, 06:48:04 pm »
Was there any reason given behind buvac anyway?

I heard it was because they stopped him having his mid morning cigar and coffee

Offline Straw hat pirate

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1769 on: October 31, 2018, 12:42:17 am »
I heard it was because they stopped him having his mid morning cigar and coffee

dammit jurgen

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1770 on: October 31, 2018, 06:35:01 am »
Not happy with the change in dressing room culture.
He'd created an atmosphere where he was a friend first, boss second. Probably an entertainer, third.

Is right.

I could show you a graph of people versus task and where does the line go.
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Offline El Lobo

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1771 on: October 31, 2018, 08:46:25 am »
Anyway, I wouldn't worry about him. He's been doing his walks for MENCAP.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Zlen

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1772 on: November 13, 2018, 11:22:10 am »
Loving these numbers that are comparing the points total of teams at this stage of last season.
Obviously, this is influenced by the draw, injuries, away games, european games and so on - but the trajectory is clear.

This is important to remember, the level of improvement from one season to the other under Klopp is unprecedented.

Burnley: -13pts
Huddersfield: -8pts
Manchester United: -6pts
Southampton: -5pts
Newcastle: -5pts
Brighton: -2pts
Arsenal: +2pts
Watford: +2pts
Manchester City: +2pts
West Ham: +3pts
Crystal Palace: +3pts
Chelsea: +3pts
Leicester: +4pts
Tottenham: +4pts
Everton: +7pts
Bournemouth: +7pts
Liverpool: +8pts

Online RedForeverTT

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1773 on: November 13, 2018, 11:40:43 am »
In terms of points and games won, there is no argument that we are improving.

So is our defence. At this point last year we were celebrating any clean sheets. These days we find it weird if we didn't walk away from the game with a clean sheet. We were lavishing praises on Matip last year. Now we are debating if he should be first choice partner to VVD. The improvement in our defensive department has been enormous.

We also do not run out of gas in the second half. Where we were blowing teams away in the first 45mins and then struggle as soon as any of our front 3 went off, Salah especially. Maybe that put a little break on the scintillating football we could have played but once we are a goal up, we are hard to beat.

I am greedy, I wished there were more goals. I feel our full backs even though were up the scale in the assist side of things could have put a few more into the net. We haven't scored from corners for a long time enough. But for now there is no question that we had improved, by a pretty wide margin too. This team has already surpassed Klopp's best Dortmund side.


Offline CraigDS

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1774 on: November 13, 2018, 11:51:41 am »
We scored 30 goals in the same games we played last year, and 17 this season. This is minus the Cardiff and Fulham games seems they have just been promoted, which would be a further 6 goals. Included a few mad games last year like the 3-3 vs Arsenal and the 4-3 vs City.

Although in the same games we conceded 12 last season and it's just 4 this year.

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1775 on: November 13, 2018, 11:56:56 am »
We scored 30 goals in the same games we played last year, and 17 this season. This is minus the Cardiff and Fulham games seems they have just been promoted, which would be a further 6 goals. Included a few mad games last year like the 3-3 vs Arsenal and the 4-3 vs City.

Although in the same games we conceded 12 last season and it's just 4 this year.

Are you talking about the league Craig? Because we've score 23 goals in the league so far, and 32 overall.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1776 on: November 13, 2018, 11:58:27 am »
Are you talking about the league Craig? Because we've score 23 goals in the league so far, and 32 overall.

As said, I've taken off the 6 goals scored against Cardiff and Fulham as they weren't in the league last year (as well as the 1 conceded) - so I've compared the 10 remaining fixtures we've played this season with the 10 results last season.

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1777 on: November 13, 2018, 11:59:28 am »
As said, I've taken off the 6 goals scored against Cardiff and Fulham as they weren't in the league last year (as well as the 1 conceded) - so I've compared the 10 remaining fixtures we've played this season with the 10 results last season.

Ah cheers misunderstood you

Offline redk84

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1778 on: November 13, 2018, 12:55:33 pm »
This team has already surpassed Klopp's best Dortmund side.

You see....
I get why you would say this. I mean i think our first 11 vs that first 11 could probably win the game 6/7 times out of ten.

But they won their league. Twice. They were as good as they had to be....mission accomplished for that "template"

This team/squad NEEDS something to hang their hat on, a league or a CL....I would take an FA cup or League cup as I think it would help fuel that mentality to win the bigger cups...and yknow. Just to win something.

I mean in terms of getting to Klopp's template for Liverpool you could argue that this is it. We are what he wanted, he's built the team for 3 years...most managers never get exactly what they want but now we can see how it develops/is tweaked to ultimately accomplish something more than getting us back competing at the highest levels (which is a success in itself but no prizes for this unfortunately)

The sour mood over the team right now is probably coming from the fact that finally we are where we are, or close to what we hoped for under Klopp - that team capable of fighting for top honours, and STILL there is something in our way. Its frustrating but we just gotta keep it up and stay on point...and thats not just for one season. This template of Klopp's needs to be there for a few seasons and it will win things or be extremely lucky not to as we've already seen lesser versions of this squad get to finals already

The 2008/2009 Rafa team, the 2013/2014 rodgers team....did almost get a league. Then fell of a cliff.

This team can't make the same mistake even if we are not going to win it this year
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Offline Zlen

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1779 on: November 13, 2018, 01:13:51 pm »
In terms of points and games won, there is no argument that we are improving.

So is our defence. At this point last year we were celebrating any clean sheets. These days we find it weird if we didn't walk away from the game with a clean sheet. We were lavishing praises on Matip last year. Now we are debating if he should be first choice partner to VVD. The improvement in our defensive department has been enormous.

We also do not run out of gas in the second half. Where we were blowing teams away in the first 45mins and then struggle as soon as any of our front 3 went off, Salah especially. Maybe that put a little break on the scintillating football we could have played but once we are a goal up, we are hard to beat.

I am greedy, I wished there were more goals. I feel our full backs even though were up the scale in the assist side of things could have put a few more into the net. We haven't scored from corners for a long time enough. But for now there is no question that we had improved, by a pretty wide margin too. This team has already surpassed Klopp's best Dortmund side.

Definite improvement, and just a casual glance at what is there in terms of players (Fabinho and Keita to completely integrate, who the hell knows what is Shaqiri's potential level, Oxlade Chamberlain to come back) says to me that we have significant room for better results, better football, more control and more goals - all within this season. If we are even moderately lucky with injuries and catch a few good waves of form - who knows where it might end up. What is absolutely certain is that we do look well prepared to tackle this season, probably as prepared as any Liverpool team going back decades.

I agree about the goals and some parts of the squad not contributing enough goals (considering how we play), but there is a sense for me that Klopp is bedding in the midfield while relying on the defence for control. We don't go out to steamroll teams and run out of steam - because we don't have to. It's a luxury we haven't had before and I'm glad he is using it. Sure, it may backfire sometime with a sluggish performance against a motivated side, like against Red Star, but considering the long game it's absolutely the right move to make. When we supplement the midfield with a bit of creative spark (already visible in some of Shaqiri's cameos) we'll make teams work even harder against us and this is where the gaps start to show - those sweet, sweet pockets of dangerous space our front three thrive in.


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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1780 on: November 13, 2018, 01:34:54 pm »
comparing his Dormtund teams to these teams is pretty pointless, to me anyway. Two clubs where at very differing financial junctures, 2 teams built in completly different ways, 2 clubs with completly different job remits at the time. They are so far removed.  There is little to compare to how he's having to build here to how he had to build there. 

Offline wemmick

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1781 on: November 13, 2018, 02:21:22 pm »
We scored 30 goals in the same games we played last year, and 17 this season. This is minus the Cardiff and Fulham games seems they have just been promoted, which would be a further 6 goals. Included a few mad games last year like the 3-3 vs Arsenal and the 4-3 vs City.
Although in the same games we conceded 12 last season and it's just 4 this year.

The goals conceded is most important to me. I haven't run the odds, but I would guess we have a better chance of winning if the opposition does not score than if we score 2+.


Offline El Lobo

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1782 on: November 13, 2018, 02:31:21 pm »
How did we do in terms of results from the same games this season vs last?
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1783 on: November 13, 2018, 02:38:06 pm »
How did we do in terms of results from the same games this season vs last?

v West ham [same]
v Leicester [same]
v Brighton [same]
v Huddersfield [same]
v Palace [same]
v Tottenham [+3]
v Soton [same]
v Chelsea [+1]
v City [-2]
v Arsenal [same]

did not include Cardiff and Fullham

Offline Zlen

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1784 on: November 13, 2018, 02:42:15 pm »
We lost away to Chelsea and Spurs, won and drew this season.
Same results against Palace, Arsenal, Leicester, West Ham, Southampton, Huddersfield and Brighton.
We beat City at home, but drew this season.

Cardiff and Fulham weren't in the League last season.

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1785 on: November 13, 2018, 03:37:57 pm »
We scored 30 goals in the same games we played last year, and 17 this season. This is minus the Cardiff and Fulham games seems they have just been promoted, which would be a further 6 goals. Included a few mad games last year like the 3-3 vs Arsenal and the 4-3 vs City.

Although in the same games we conceded 12 last season and it's just 4 this year.
Goals scored and goals conceded are not independent. If we concede more goals, we are forced to attack to score more goals. This season we have mostly been in the lead (or equal against some top teams), and we haven't had the same need to attack. Thus, a poor defence leads to a more desperate attack and more goals scored.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1786 on: November 13, 2018, 03:40:38 pm »
Goals scored and goals conceded are not independent. If we concede more goals, we are forced to attack to score more goals. This season we have mostly been in the lead (or equal against some top teams), and we haven't had the same need to attack. Thus, a poor defence leads to a more desperate attack and more goals scored.

Whilst I mostly agree, the biggest difference IMO is we are noticeably stepping off the gas and not going hell for leather for 90 odd minutes to score a load of goals. When we've got a load we've been content with protecting it, and our fitness, by defending well rather than looking to score a 3rd, 4th or 5th.

Offline rocco

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1787 on: November 13, 2018, 03:49:03 pm »
Quote from: RedForeverTT on Today at 11:40:43 AM
This team has already surpassed Klopp's best Dortmund side.


WTF

Offline Suareznumber7

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1788 on: November 13, 2018, 10:30:48 pm »
I have no stats to back this up, but, it seems we are playing much more direct this year then last.  Last year we had midfielders getting into the box on a regular basis but this year we seem to try and get it to the front 3 much quicker.  Am I imagining things or are others seeing this as well?

Offline Paul1611

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1789 on: November 13, 2018, 11:07:28 pm »
Something is different.  Think about this.... last season we set out to entertain, this season we set out to win.

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1790 on: November 14, 2018, 03:58:40 am »
I have no stats to back this up, but, it seems we are playing much more direct this year then last.  Last year we had midfielders getting into the box on a regular basis but this year we seem to try and get it to the front 3 much quicker.  Am I imagining things or are others seeing this as well?

Well we played more long balls per game last year, so perhaps it's not really that we're more direct, but that we're supporting less and taking less midfield risks
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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1791 on: November 14, 2018, 04:20:26 am »
So proud and satisfied for the team's improvement this year. City is so dominaint but we are just two points behind them clearly shows this.
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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1792 on: November 14, 2018, 01:11:24 pm »






Fantastic thread here @PhaseOfPlay. I havent read it all, but I get the jist of the template and how it relates to what we have now, and possibly what he wants to finally implement.

I wonder if the template is the same as what he has in mind for Liverpool though. He's bought Keita, Fabinho recently with the latter starting to find his feet in the team, the former not really knowing where to play. Often very wide left in the middle 3.

Its hard to map the template to the current 11, as of November 2018. roles seem to be doubled up.

Alisson - Sweeper keeper, reads the game well, quick witted, obvious drive to win.

Robertson - Work horse wing-back, crosses, tackling.

VVD - Sweeper, Heading, distribution, organiser.
Gomez - Ball playing centre-back. (is he the covering defender? I'm not so sure).

TAA - Immature attacking fullback.

Milner - Box-to-box, in narrow-wide (attacking?) area's. Pressing/Runner.
Wijnaldum - box-to-box in defensive wide area, pressing, tackling.
Henderson/Fabinho - Defensive midfielder, play-maker. Tackling, turning defence to attack.

Mane - Left forward - Dribbling, shots. covering fullback in defensive situation.
Firmino - Roaming forward. 9+1/2. Presses from the front, holds ball up, shots*. Break through lines with skill.
Salah - Narrow right forward. Dribbling, shots, penetrating back line.


Now I haven't really seen Klopp's dortmund play, but it does seem like the players such as Gundogan, Reus, Lewandowski, were all capable of scoring and being a threat, 3 completely different roles. 2 of which, I don't think we have. If we substitute Lewandowski for Salah, its those clever positions where we need to improve. Is Keita meant to be Gundogan? Or Reus?

I think thats why this season is intriguing. I know a lot of the fans want a title push this year. But there is a massive transition occurring in the middle of the park, we'll probably see the fruits of this next year rather than this season. Klopp has superior players at the top end and the back end of the pitch than he had at Dortmund, but that dortmund team had goals everywhere. Subotic/Hummels would quite often score too.

This is where we are at the moment. Nullify the front three, you've nullified Liverpool. Thank God for Shaqiri, who may become our unexpected Reus. Whats very evident is shots and dribbling from the centre of the park is lacking in this Liverpool side. I wonder though, that in the premier league he's sacrificing the 10 for the 8 because we're lacking control in the midfield, hence the reason we havent seen Shaqiri very much.

One thing I am seeing quite often though is the defence bypassing the midfield and searching out the attacking players with one pass. Very aggressive passing. We didnt see that too often in the past.

Who'd be a manager eh. I'm sure there is loads going on that we're not aware of. We're definitely not that far off.
did you know that 10 x 2 and 11 x 2 have the same answer?

Offline Suareznumber7

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1793 on: November 14, 2018, 01:36:22 pm »
Well we played more long balls per game last year, so perhaps it's not really that we're more direct, but that we're supporting less and taking less midfield risks

Interesting.  As you say, there definitely has been a change in the midfield which has obviously made us more solid defensively. 

Offline BrandoLFC

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1794 on: November 15, 2018, 12:52:50 am »
LFC data analyst (or Head data guy?) presented at the Barca Innovation Hub.  Second pic mentions one of the things they track internally which is interesting.




Edit: Found him - William Spearman is the Lead Data Scientist for LFC.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2018, 01:15:35 am by BrandoLFC »

Offline FlashGordon

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1795 on: November 15, 2018, 01:36:30 am »
Why do we go to this thing and give away our secrets? Remember an article written about this a year ago I think basically saying we're the golden ticket at this event.
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1796 on: November 15, 2018, 01:58:14 am »
Why do we go to this thing and give away our secrets? Remember an article written about this a year ago I think basically saying we're the golden ticket at this event.
I was wondering that as well

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1797 on: November 15, 2018, 08:03:41 am »
We won't be giving our our biggest secrets. That looks similair to stuff he's talked about before he came here/is already public.

https://twitter.com/the_spearman/status/966750560530595843?s=19

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1798 on: November 15, 2018, 10:57:35 am »
The only thing we're missing imo is a Steven Gerrard. If a prime Stevie was here we'd be as good if not better than City. 
Thank Fowler we're not getting Caulker

Offline CraigDS

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Re: The Klopp Template - Are we getting closer?
« Reply #1799 on: November 15, 2018, 11:22:14 am »
The only thing we're missing imo is a Steven Gerrard. If a prime Stevie was here we'd be as good if not better than City.

So all we need is basically one of the best midfielders ever? Easy.