Topic: The NFL Thread

[redwillow]

that was an incredible battle between the two best teams in the NFL & the 2 best Quarterbacks.

For me, Mahomes has just shown again why he is the best in the league. He was written off in week 5/6 but when it matters he is sensational. He might not be the biggest arm, or the most powerful runner, or the fastest elusive QB, but he is one of the best ever in nearly every category & this tough season has just made him even better.

[RedSince86]

Allen and Mahomes is hopefully going to turn out like the playoff rivalry of the Pats and Colts with Payton and Brady of the 00's.

The last 2 mins is just utterly ridiculous, so glad i saw that unfolding before my eyes, i woke up and was still pissed off at the Bills Defense and i'm not even a Bills fan.

Roger Goddell will be grinning like a Cheshire Cat this morning, what a great advert for the NFL that weekend was.

[bryanod]

utter carnage yday, Sat had two walkoff wins but nothing like the mentalness of last night.

OT rules, if brought in possession each you'd elect to kickoff and go second and go for 2 right? Or not allow EP/2P conversions and just trade TD/FG?

[redwillow]

utter carnage yday, Sat had two walkoff wins but nothing like the mentalness of last night.

OT rules, if brought in possession each you'd elect to kickoff and go second and go for 2 right? Or not allow EP/2P conversions and just trade TD/FG?

I don't get the hate for the OT rules. Bills were meant to have the best defence in the league, they needed to stop Mahomes just once & then had the luxury to go kick a field goal to win right? It's not as though Mahomes scored on every drive in the game, the Bill's defence were more than capable of being able to stop him, but they didn't.

[Statto Red]

The OT rules are unfair as the game is often decided by a coin toss, with defences being gassed by OT, at least for the playoffs & super bowl the NFL should go with the college football OT rules, which are quite fun, or at least the other team is guaranteed possession regardless if a TD is scored.

 

[John_P]

In the playoffs both sides should get a possession. Amazed they didn't change the rules after the Pats won the Super Bowl on the first possession in over time.

[redwillow]

but it is still fair? The defense has the opportunity to stop them. Its not a case of Mahomes stands on the 15 yard line and just throws to a receiver and tests his accuracy. I know its a coin toss to see who starts but the greatest ever team sports saying explains it perfectly 'offence wins games, defence wins championships'

[Ray K]

I really wish people would stop suggesting the college overtime rules. It's the worst, most cartoonish farce of a system. Plus it gives the team going 2nd a huge advantage knowing what it needs to do to win.

I'd suggest starting the sudden death period after the first possession - so the Bills would have a chance to match the Chiefs TD yesterday. If they do, and the Chiefs got the ball and scored again, then fair enough. If your defense can't stop your opponents twice in OT, you deserve to lose.

[Statto Red]

I really wish people would stop suggesting the college overtime rules. It's the worst, most cartoonish farce of a system. Plus it gives the team going 2nd a huge advantage knowing what it needs to do to win.

I'd suggest starting the sudden death period after the first possession - so the Bills would have a chance to match the Chiefs TD yesterday. If they do, and the Chiefs got the ball and scored again, then fair enough. If your defense can't stop your opponents twice in OT, you deserve to lose.

That's a better idea.

I still can't get over that last 2 minutes, Chiefs lead 26-21 at the 2 minute warning, & it's tied at 36 just 2 minutes later.

[FlashGordon]

That's a better idea.

I still can't get over that last 2 minutes, Chiefs lead 26-21 at the 2 minute warning, & it's tied at 36 just 2 minutes later.

Watching the highlights this morning already knowing the score I was thinking at the 2 minute warning where the fuck both sides would find the time to score that amount of points from  Madness, a cracker of a game.

[scatman]

but it is still fair? The defense has the opportunity to stop them. Its not a case of Mahomes stands on the 15 yard line and just throws to a receiver and tests his accuracy. I know its a coin toss to see who starts but the greatest ever team sports saying explains it perfectly 'offence wins games, defence wins championships'

Would hold true if that saying wasn't a load of bollocks but i agree the defence has a chance to stop them, why pay that defence all that money if they don't do their job.

[Statto Red]

OT rule changes or not, Bills defensive coordinator be lucky to stay in a job, how do you blow a lead with 13 seconds left, with the Chiefs starting from there own 25, then give up a couple big plays that the Chiefs get in FG range to tie the game up.

[Red Cactii]

Allen and Mahomes is hopefully going to turn out like the playoff rivalry of the Pats and Colts with Payton and Brady of the 00's.

The last 2 mins is just utterly ridiculous, so glad i saw that unfolding before my eyes, i woke up and was still pissed off at the Bills Defense and i'm not even a Bills fan.

Roger Goddell will be grinning like a Cheshire Cat this morning, what a great advert for the NFL that weekend was.

25 points in the 114 seconds of clock time - it was the best match I’ve ever seen. Gotta feel for Josh Allen, has absolutely tore it up in the playoffs with 11 passing TDs and still ends up going home. 13 seconds with Mahomes should’ve been easy enough to contain but it wasn’t - and that’s why he’s the best.

[redwillow]

Both of these teams will focus on improving D once again in the off season you would imagine too

[stoa]

but it is still fair? The defense has the opportunity to stop them. Its not a case of Mahomes stands on the 15 yard line and just throws to a receiver and tests his accuracy. I know its a coin toss to see who starts but the greatest ever team sports saying explains it perfectly 'offence wins games, defence wins championships'

It's not really fair though, is it? Because if the team, that gets the ball first scores a TD, half of the other team never even gets onto the field. It's like saying Team A in a penalty shootout in football takes their five penalties first and if they score all of them, they've won the game. You brought up the saying about defences winning championships, yet with current rules, if the team scores a TD on their first possession their defence never even has to show what it can do. Just give each team at least one possession in overtime and if they're still level after that, first score wins...

[Libertine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyXnCPbK6NI last 2 minutes and overtime was posted by nfl

Amazing, thanks for posting that.

OT was a bit of an anti-climax after that. Feel for Allen, but what Mahomes achieved there was incredible.

[Drinks Sangria]

I must say I reckon last night is the closest feeling to a big Liverpool goal or win I've had since I've watched the NFL, it was fantastic. I'd lost all hope with that last Bills score but an incredible last few plays.

I do think that the OT rules are inherently unfair though, yes the defence has the opportunity to stop the opposing offence, but if they don't the offence has been given a chance that isn't extended to the opposing team. It's not a level or fair system and I say that as a Chiefs fan who's benefited from that coin toss last night.

Burrows v Mahomes for the AFC, it could be another shootout.

[filopastry]

but it is still fair? The defense has the opportunity to stop them. Its not a case of Mahomes stands on the 15 yard line and just throws to a receiver and tests his accuracy. I know its a coin toss to see who starts but the greatest ever team sports saying explains it perfectly 'offence wins games, defence wins championships'

If it was "fair" you would see a mix of teams choosing to kick and receive the ball when they win the toss. I would imagine the team that wins the toss nearly always elects to receive.

[skipper757]

If it was "fair" you would see a mix of teams choosing to kick and receive the ball when they win the toss. I would imagine the team that wins the toss nearly always elects to receive.

Almost always.  Very rare to not receive.  If a team chose not to receive, it was almost always due to the conditions (e.g. very windy days).  Kickers in the old days were less reliable as well.  It became almost non-existent (a team winning the toss and not receiving) for a while until the OT rule changes.

Here's a list I saw recently on choose not to receive that was kind of fun to read through.  Incidentally, a huge number of the teams that chose not to receive were calls made by legendary coaches (probably because they can take the heat if it goes wrong).  Marty Morninwheg's decision was panned (it didn't work) but also he was struggling badly as a coach.

http://www.quirkyresearch.com/football-lists/winning-ot-coin-toss-kicking/

For college rules, the end results are in general similarly "fair" (or "unfair") for teams winning the toss (something between 50-55% depending on the period of study).  In college, you always go second, so you know exactly what you need in the first OT (and then it switches).  The coin toss definitely matters, but because there's no sudden death element, it seems more fair.

College OTs are more fun (before the whole 2-point conversion only thing implemented after 2019), but player safety, TV game length, etc are a different set of considerations.  NFL OTs have always been big hot topics.  It's possible if the owners feel that ratings/support would be better in a different set of rules, especially for the playoffs, maybe further changes would come.  The NFL is far more pass-happy and a given it's a QB league and the best are often in the playoffs, the % of teams winning with a first-drive TD may be higher (would have to look into this).  So even though the OT rules overall may not overwhelming favor the coin toss winners, it may be more favorable in the playoffs with the generally high-level QB play.  The NFL allowed challenges to pass interference for a year (which I thought would've never been implemented) after the Rams-Saints game, so maybe the owners will consider something different for the playoffs after the uproar over this epic game.

[Linudden]

I think the top seed should get the ball automatically to make the regular season mean more. In that sense, the Chiefs got the ball in a sense of poetic justice but in a cartoonishly ridiculous way.

Still yet to catch my breath from the re-run and speeding back to work on the bicycle to cover the extra minutes lost over the break Two supermen playing QB there although both defences were clownish at the end. Chiefs should've wrapped it up yet left half a dozen yards twice and then the Bills didn't look like trying to prevent the Hill TD and the play towards the FG. Maybe Mahomes and Allen are just that good that both defences had spaghetti legs towards the end but come on!

[Crosby Nick]

Tyree Hill’s touchdown was incredible. The pace of him!

The really long one the Bills scored was superb as well. Looks like a rivalry for the ages.

[redwillow]

It's not really fair though, is it? Because if the team, that gets the ball first scores a TD, half of the other team never even gets onto the field. It's like saying Team A in a penalty shootout in football takes their five penalties first and if they score all of them, they've won the game. You brought up the saying about defences winning championships, yet with current rules, if the team scores a TD on their first possession their defence never even has to show what it can do. Just give each team at least one possession in overtime and if they're still level after that, first score wins...

I do understand where your coming from, and i know im in the minority for not disliking the current set up. I just see it like its offence v defence 1 more time in the match - who is better

[Red Star]

Fantastic game in KC. What a finish. 13 seconds left and manage 44 yards!

Hope for Chiefs-Rams in SB. That has the makings of a classic.

[Darkness]

Didn't want to play the Rams law of averages say eventually they are gonna beat us even though we do match up well against them.

Bengals will make things interesting against the Chiefs and Joe Burrow will put on a show but Kansas have got this now can't see anyone stopping them from here.

[Ray K]

The route Kelce ran for the catch before the FG wasn't planned. He told Mahomes he was going to get open down the seam, and Mahomes looked at the pre-snap coverage and told him 'Do it Do it Kelce' in his cadence.
Listen closely:  https://twitter.com/jessenewell/status/1485472007328354308?s=20

Romo recognises it too - casually drawing it on screen before the snap 

[voodoo ray]

Didn't want to play the Rams law of averages say eventually they are gonna beat us even though we do match up well against them.

Bengals will make things interesting against the Chiefs and Joe Burrow will put on a show but Kansas have got this now can't see anyone stopping them from here.

I'm sure the old line about it being hard to beat a team 3 times in a season wil be trotted out quite a bit this week.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

If it was "fair" you would see a mix of teams choosing to kick and receive the ball when they win the toss. I would imagine the team that wins the toss nearly always elects to receive.

Yeah, the team celebrating winning the coin toss like they've scored a touchdown is very telling.

[Skeeve]

I do think that the OT rules are inherently unfair though, yes the defence has the opportunity to stop the opposing offence, but if they don't the offence has been given a chance that isn't extended to the opposing team. It's not a level or fair system and I say that as a Chiefs fan who's benefited from that coin toss last night.

Burrows v Mahomes for the AFC, it could be another shootout.

You could look at it the other way though, if you start on defence, you are obviously at risk of that first drive td, but if you can avoid that then you have a clearer picture when you get the ball, such as knowing you can win with a fg if you have kept the other team out.

The current rule was first implemented in the 2010 playoffs, but was extended to regular season games in 2012. Under these rules, there have been a total of 118 overtime games. This includes regular season and playoffs, and includes yesterday's games.

• Wins by team that possesses the ball first: 59 (50%) (Of these wins, 23 were on an opening drive TD (39.0% of team with first possession wins, 19.5% overall overtime games))
• Wins by team that possesses the ball second: 52 (44.1%)
• Ties: 7 (5.9%)

If you just look at the regular season games where a tie is possible the breakdown is 47.3% to 46.4% for the team with the first possession to win the game.

[Pradan]

Unreal weekend of action. Surely the greatest weekend in playoff history.

Personally don't think there is anything that compares to the NFL playoffs when it comes to professional sport.

[newterp]

I've missed if we discussed the Bills decision to kick it into the endzone. The should have gone for a low line driver that potentially hits someone and starts running clock.

[voodoo ray]

You could look at it the other way though, if you start on defence, you are obviously at risk of that first drive td, but if you can avoid that then you have a clearer picture when you get the ball, such as knowing you can win with a fg if you have kept the other team out.

The current rule was first implemented in the 2010 playoffs, but was extended to regular season games in 2012. Under these rules, there have been a total of 118 overtime games. This includes regular season and playoffs, and includes yesterday's games.

• Wins by team that possesses the ball first: 59 (50%) (Of these wins, 23 were on an opening drive TD (39.0% of team with first possession wins, 19.5% overall overtime games))
• Wins by team that possesses the ball second: 52 (44.1%)
• Ties: 7 (5.9%)

If you just look at the regular season games where a tie is possible the breakdown is 47.3% to 46.4% for the team with the first possession to win the game.

in playoff games teams that win the coin toss (and obviously choose to receive the ball) are 10-1.

[Linudden]

I've missed if we discussed the Bills decision to kick it into the endzone. The should have gone for a low line driver that potentially hits someone and starts running clock.

My guess is they were real scared of Hardman's return. That guy can run straight into field goal range by himself.

[ArcticRed]

It's such a shame these two teams will never face off in a Superbowl (unless I've completely misunderstood). Last nights game was definitely worthy of being just that.
Stoked about Bengals @ Chiefs having a somewhat sensible KO-time for us living on CET

[Linudden]

It's such a shame these two teams will never face off in a Superbowl (unless I've completely misunderstood). Last nights game was definitely worthy of being just that.
Stoked about Bengals @ Chiefs having a somewhat sensible KO-time for us living on CET

Correct. Historical affiliations before mergers are what set the AFC and NFC today. Was all a bit random to me at first before I understood where it came from. The funny thing is that if you'd go full East-West many divisions could still be completely intact though!

AFC East, AFC North (east), AFC West
NFC North (west), NFC South (east), NFC West

The only team a bit out of place within their division are the Dallas Cowboys. It really only is through tradition and their brutal rivalries with the other three in the East that they and Carolina haven't traded places.

[KillieRed]

The Colts? Hardly the south.

[voodoo ray]

The Colts? Hardly the south.

a lot of teams could quite easily be in another division.

[Armand9]

rodgers aint ever going back to a superbowl with greenbay, they've never supported him in the drafts so i hope he just moves on to a team that's ready to win or something and hopefully one i can get behind

i've no dogs in this fight now, i'd be quite happy to see the 49s go all the way but dont think they have enough to win it all, tho dangerous (they should've won it two years back and would've with a better qb)

there's two teams i dont like and if neither win it, i'll settle with that

[Statto Red]

I think Rodgers will be on a different team next season, his contract runs out next year, but can see the Packers wanting to trade him for some value, & not leave as a free agent, Packers have cap issues too.

 Maybe Niners if they decide to move on from Garoppolo, & that's even if the Niners win the super bowl, Bucs could be one if Brady decides to retire.

Another could be the Colts, looking for a qb i think they're moving on from Wentz, play in a dome so doesn't have to worry about the weather, & divisional opponents are in the South, but in the AFC so will have to face dynamic qbs such as, Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, & Jackson

[FlashGordon]

rodgers aint ever going back to a superbowl with greenbay, they've never supported him in the drafts so i hope he just moves on to a team that's ready to win or something and hopefully one i can get behind

i've no dogs in this fight now, i'd be quite happy to see the 49s go all the way but dont think they have enough to win it all, tho dangerous (they should've won it two years back and would've with a better qb)

there's two teams i dont like and if neither win it, i'll settle with that

I used to think this, but the more I look at it we're actually pretty great at drafting. Up until recently we never made moves in  free agency but even that has changed in the last few years. What we did do wrong though is waste his prime years with fucking Mike McCarthy as head coach.

[redwillow]

Yeah, the team celebrating winning the coin toss like they've scored a touchdown is very telling.

You would imagine thats because Mahomes is their QB. i dont think you would see the Jags celebrating like that if they won the coin toss knowing that means they have to move 75 yards down the field & score.