Topic: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!

[Eeyore]

As I say it's far better to look at the moving footage. If the referee had seen the video of the Curtis Jones incident rather than the still image he wouldn't have sent Jones off. The same applies to Casemiro.

This 'tackle' didn't get a red card - or a yellow one - and it's a bit scruffier than the other two. Andy would say he was 'learning to fly'. The Cup Final might have been a bit trickier if the referees had been as anti-Liverpool as you guys think they all are:

https://twitter.com/LiamFlood17/status/1525528973001859073

Well done to Mason Mount by the way. It's rare to see a footballer these days not milk the opportunity to get someone sent off.

Reds fans have long been critical of the way Thiago threw himself into challenges. It was a running joke on here. I think many people made a decent living betting on Thiago to be booked.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

[Redley]

Keith Lard?

[KillieRed]

On top of the “unfavourable” foul stat discrepancies, I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that refs made the difference in our two most important league games this season. But “these things even themselves out”. Maybe next season, eh?

[redtel]

On top of the “unfavourable” foul stat discrepancies, I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that refs made the difference in our two most important league games this season. But “these things even themselves out”. Maybe next season, eh?

I would say it’s three important games as our defeat at Spurs was when we were unbeaten and the fact that the two red cards made it harder for us to maintain our challenge at the top, not to mention the lost points.

If anyone doubts England didn’t want us to win that day after his cock up over the Diaz goal then consider how he manipulated the Jones red card. I was shocked when our tv showed us the big screen at Spurs showing a huge still of Jones foot placed on his opponent’s ankle. Never have I seen this before, nor since that day, as it’s not allowed. It influenced the crowd and of course Hooper who was sent to the screen. England’s agenda was set early on in that game and nothing can convince me otherwise.

As regards our Manchester mate Anthony Taylor. He let everything go last Sunday with a view that keeping 11v 11 in a big audience tv match. No reason to think he will do it differently this Sunday.
He’s safe in the knowledge that he will be backed up by var and Webb if necessary.

[Eeyore]

As regards our Manchester mate Anthony Taylor. He let everything go last Sunday with a view that keeping 11v 11 in a big audience tv match. No reason to think he will do it differently this Sunday.
He’s safe in the knowledge that he will be backed up by var and Webb if necessary.

Casemiro warming up fo Sunday.



Neville will liken it to Hannibal showing passion. Webb will say "They have both come in high, Casemiro would have won the ball if it was there and the Liverpool player has come into his space". Mike Dean will say "I didn't see the game but for me the referee has got that right". Owen will say "I think it's a difficult one, I am not sure"

Yorky will say "just a poor Ref and nobody loves them-
He's just a poor Ref from a United family
Spare him his job from his Manctrosity"

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I would say it’s three important games as our defeat at Spurs was when we were unbeaten and the fact that the two red cards made it harder for us to maintain our challenge at the top, not to mention the lost points.

If anyone doubts England didn’t want us to win that day after his cock up over the Diaz goal then consider how he manipulated the Jones red card. I was shocked when our tv showed us the big screen at Spurs showing a huge still of Jones foot placed on his opponent’s ankle. Never have I seen this before, nor since that day, as it’s not allowed. It influenced the crowd and of course Hooper who was sent to the screen. England’s agenda was set early on in that game and nothing can convince me otherwise.

As regards our Manchester mate Anthony Taylor. He let everything go last Sunday with a view that keeping 11v 11 in a big audience tv match. No reason to think he will do it differently this Sunday.
He’s safe in the knowledge that he will be backed up by var and Webb if necessary.

Four..


Chelsea (Handball in the area - given as a corner, dodgy lines for disallowed goal)
Arsenal (Harlem globetrotters - ignored)
Spurs (Legal goal disallowed, Jones sent off questionably, Jota sent off for first not touching their player and then kicking the ball away after being fouled which was ignored)
City (Player booted in the chest, in the area - ignored)


I'm sure that all these top of the table results will be evened out. Er. Oh. No they won't will they?

[Goalposts for Jumpers]

Four..


Chelsea (Handball in the area - given as a corner, dodgy lines for disallowed goal)
Arsenal (Harlem globetrotters - ignored)
Spurs (Legal goal disallowed, Jones sent off questionably, Jota sent off for first not touching their player and then kicking the ball away after being fouled which was ignored)
City (Player booted in the chest, in the area - ignored)


I'm sure that all these top of the table results will be evened out. Er. Oh. No they won't will they?

You missed the clear pen on Gomez in the first 25mins against Spurs. It's amazing how such a clear cock up gets completely overlooked, just because there were so many other more serious cock ups

[redtel]

I have been watching Liverpool right through the sixties, seventies and eighties up to now and can barely remember the name of a ref from those days, and have no memory of a ref that I or we thought was against us. But now!!!

Edit; That could just be a comment about my memory to be honest.

One referee I do remember was Phil Don whose name appeared in the programme as Mr P Don

My lad always pointed this out and say We’re gonna get peed on today, much to his amusement.

He eventually reffed our ‘92 FAC Final against Sunderland.

I did a search on Phil Don and was surprised that today The Fail had just regurgitated an old article by him about how bribes were common in the 90s when working at international matches. I’m not sure why it has resurfaced.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1280552/Former-boss-England-referees-lifts-lid-culture-gifts.html

[Andy @ Allerton!]

A referee not fucking us up the arse for 90 minutes makes me feel like we are the most honoured team in the league.

[Yorkykopite]

A referee not fucking us up the arse for 90 minutes makes me feel like we are the most honoured team in the league.

We are most honoured team. 19-6-8-3-9-4-1.

[amir87]

A referee not fucking us up the arse for 90 minutes makes me feel like we are the most honoured team in the league.

Hate to burst your bubble but he completely missed Konate being scissored and then only gave a yellow for a blatant forearm smash.

[Red_Mist]

Hate to burst your bubble but he completely missed Konate being scissored and then only gave a yellow for a blatant forearm smash.

My thoughts exactly. He was fuckin shite.

[Red_Mist]

One referee I do remember was Phil Don whose name appeared in the programme as Mr P Don

My lad always pointed this out and say We’re gonna get peed on today, much to his amusement.

He eventually reffed our ‘92 FAC Final against Sunderland.

I did a search on Phil Don and was surprised that today The Fail had just regurgitated an old article by him about how bribes were common in the 90s when working at international matches. I’m not sure why it has resurfaced.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1280552/Former-boss-England-referees-lifts-lid-culture-gifts.html

Haha, I remember Mr Peed On.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Hate to burst your bubble but he completely missed Konate being scissored and then only gave a yellow for a blatant forearm smash.

Did wonder about the Konate foul - but too far away for me to comment and not seen anything back yet.

Missed the forearam smash, but did notice he gave fuck all for Nunez getting fouled, then gave us a soft one about 5 minutes later.

I think he heard me call him a cheating c*nt after the Nunez one

[amir87]

Watch it back when you get the chance. I genuinely thought Konate done his ACL after I watched the replay. It was a horrible challenge from their shithouse. And to compound the poor guys day, he got caught square on the jaw right in front of the ref. That McBurnie has previous for that the fake thug.

[edge]

Watch it back when you get the chance. I genuinely thought Konate done his ACL after I watched the replay. It was a horrible challenge from their shithouse. And to compound the poor guys day, he got caught square on the jaw right in front of the ref. That McBurnie has previous for that the fake thug.

https://x.com/MatthewScarb/status/1775987965992292410

Tried to do what Pickford did, the nasty c*nt

[Egyptian36]

It's like the PGMOl showed him a reply of the Everton game and told him that's how you get away with injuring a Liverpool player. He went for Konate knee intentionally.

[Egyptian36]

and btw if we don't win the EPL it's because of the PGMOl. We should be far ahead if not for them. Seems the only one talking about it is Goldbridge , they already influenced the title race massively like they did before.

[spider-neil]

Four..


Chelsea (Handball in the area - given as a corner, dodgy lines for disallowed goal)
Arsenal (Harlem globetrotters - ignored)
Spurs (Legal goal disallowed, Jones sent off questionably, Jota sent off for first not touching their player and then kicking the ball away after being fouled which was ignored)
City (Player booted in the chest, in the area - ignored)


I'm sure that all these top of the table results will be evened out. Er. Oh. No they won't will they?

Konate should have been sent off vs Everton so we're due 4 more decision. And no, a fucking dropball doesn't count.

[alonsoisared]

Any thoughts on Virgil grabbing their bloke by the neck and shoving him to the ground? There'd be a few pages on that if it was the other way round. Mac Allister hit the bar from a very harsh handball as well, although i only saw the one replay.

Not that I care, obviously. It's great when decisions go our way.

[rob1966]

Fucking hell Andy, are you psychic? That's not far off the assault on Ibou that Atwell totally ignored

[rob1966]

Did wonder about the Konate foul - but too far away for me to comment and not seen anything back yet.

Missed the forearam smash, but did notice he gave fuck all for Nunez getting fouled, then gave us a soft one about 5 minutes later.

I think he heard me call him a cheating c*nt after the Nunez one

Only just seen it properly myself, its fucking shocking

Osula’s two footed scissor tackle on Konate on 67' - https://twitter.com/matthewscarb/status/1775987965992292410? (40 second video; best angles at the end)

^ referee Atwell seemed to only interested in letting people know it wasn't a penalty... and nothing on the Osula's lunge at Konate. No VAR review it seems, either.

[Son of Spion]

Any thoughts on Virgil grabbing their bloke by the neck and shoving him to the ground? There'd be a few pages on that if it was the other way round. Mac Allister hit the bar from a very harsh handball as well, although i only saw the one replay.

Not that I care, obviously. It's great when decisions go our way.

I thought Virgil was really stupid there. Their man made a meal of it, of course, but on another day Virgil could have walked for that.

[Redley]

Any thoughts on Virgil grabbing their bloke by the neck and shoving him to the ground? There'd be a few pages on that if it was the other way round. Mac Allister hit the bar from a very harsh handball as well, although i only saw the one replay.

Not that I care, obviously. It's great when decisions go our way.

In all honesty this thread just needs to die now, let it seep back into match threads when we get a bad call.

Because we've now got posters like yourself and Yorky actively trying to find really innocuous nonsense as evidence that we've had some big favourable decision. We had a load of it with the infamous dropball, we've had Yorky showing a tackle from Thiago which literally didn't even touch an opposition player, and now these two. Nothing about the assault on Ibou which should have been a red, or the other assault on Ibou which should have been a red. Just so entrenched that you're literally digging for the tiniest thing AGAINST Liverpool, which isn't a great look for you chaps. And I'm sure thats not the intention.

[Son of Spion]

^
They should have had two straight reds last night, but both were ignored.

[Egyptian36]

Any thoughts on Virgil grabbing their bloke by the neck and shoving him to the ground? There'd be a few pages on that if it was the other way round. Mac Allister hit the bar from a very harsh handball as well, although i only saw the one replay.

Not that I care, obviously. It's great when decisions go our way.

You make it sound like he strangled him with both hands and tried to choke him. Should be a foul , maybe a yellow too and that's it. He pushed him, that's why the player fell down.  Not even close to what other players did.

[Son of Spion]

^
I've definitely seen a lot worse, but in the current climate where we get hammered for everything we do, I thought Virgil was reckless there. It gave the officials/VAR an excuse but, thankfully, they didn't take it on this occasion.

[Andy82lfc]

Not that I care, obviously. It's great when decisions go our way.

 

^
I've definitely seen a lot worse, but in the current climate where we get hammered for everything we do, I thought Virgil was reckless there. It gave the officials/VAR an excuse but, thankfully, they didn't take it on this occasion.

I don't think he was reckless for me. He was pushing him away from a very awkward position as the other guy was literally trying to bear hug him. I agree though you don't need to give VAR any excuses as even with something so innocuous as that they are always ready with an awful decision. Just look at that 2 minutes Coote gave last night in awarding the final Chelsea pen, frightening, and why with them being so incredibly bad the waters are always so muddied when it comes to deciphering bias from incompetence.

The scissor challenge on Konate was the worst one of the night by far that didn't go punished. However overall I felt is was incredibly nice to watch a match for once where, for the vast majority, you forgot about the ref being there.

[KillieRed]

^
They should have had two straight reds last night, but both were ignored.

The commentators barely mentioned it. No endless replays, nothing at half time.

[Eeyore]

Any thoughts on Virgil grabbing their bloke by the neck and shoving him to the ground? There'd be a few pages on that if it was the other way round. Mac Allister hit the bar from a very harsh handball as well, although i only saw the one replay.

Not that I care, obviously. It's great when decisions go our way.

The thing is there wouldn't because our defenders don't defend in the way the Sheffield United defender did all night. At every set piece his job was to not even look at the ball but to just grab hold of Virgil and attempt to stop him moving towards the ball. Even in the incident in which Virgil grabs him and pushes him away it is the Sheffield United defender who is the aggressor. Granted Virg shouldn't have grabbed him where he did but it was a clearly a case of the Sheffield United defender trying to stop Virg competing for the ball.

It is not as if Virgil ignored the ball ran ten yards and smashed an opponent in the face with their forearm. It is not as if he scissor kicked an opponent and endangered his safety and it is not as if our goals came about by pushing a full back under the flight of the ball so your mate can win a header.

Attwell has been a referee that doesn't give decisions ever since he was demoted from the select group for making a series of really poor decisions early in his career. He doesn't really suit being a referee that for me is why he is perfect as a VAR patsy.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Look how long VAR takes with our penno calls compared to how long they take when their beloved United are going to concede.

Was in the pub after the game yesterday with the Manc game on and it seemed that Coote took five minutes desperately replaying the foul trying not to give it. Again and again and again..

[paisley1977]

Hate to burst your bubble but he completely missed Konate being scissored and then only gave a yellow for a blatant forearm smash.

And the same incident Curtis was been assaulted too. 
Then Darwin had his legs taken outside the penalty area. A free kick first half waved on they get one exact place free kick given straight away.

[rob1966]

Look how long VAR takes with our penno calls compared to how long they take when their beloved United are going to concede.

Was in the pub after the game yesterday with the Manc game on and it seemed that Coote took five minutes desperately replaying the foul trying not to give it. Again and again and again..

Like I said, heard that live on the radio and the comms were going nuts, asking what the hell they were expecting to find.

And the same incident Curtis was been assaulted too. 
Then Darwin had his legs taken outside the penalty area. A free kick first half waved on they get one exact place free kick given straight away.

Had a great view of that, blatant foul and the ref was having none of it. There was also a clear corner when he had them under the cosh that he gave as a goal kick. Said to my lad, that's how they work, nothing blatant, but distrupts our flow and lets Sheff Utd off the hook.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Any thoughts on Virgil grabbing their bloke by the neck and shoving him to the ground? There'd be a few pages on that if it was the other way round. Mac Allister hit the bar from a very harsh handball as well, although i only saw the one replay.

Not that I care, obviously. It's great when decisions go our way.

At no point did he squeeze his neck.

[Avens]

Look how long VAR takes with our penno calls compared to how long they take when their beloved United are going to concede.

Was in the pub after the game yesterday with the Manc game on and it seemed that Coote took five minutes desperately replaying the foul trying not to give it. Again and again and again..

Again though, if those penalties had been given against us we'd have pages and pages of posts from you and Al showing us all how it's part of the corruption. But on these occasions, because it's Utd, they're clearly penalties that don't even deserve the time of a review. It's absolutely fine to think like that, we're fans. But we should probably recognise that we're not impartial - some things that are objective truths to us, simply aren't. All part of being a fan. Also probably why we need to leave this thread to die (recognising the life support I'm offering it by posting in it.)

[Avens]

In all honesty this thread just needs to die now, let it seep back into match threads when we get a bad call.

Because we've now got posters like yourself and Yorky actively trying to find really innocuous nonsense as evidence that we've had some big favourable decision. We had a load of it with the infamous dropball, we've had Yorky showing a tackle from Thiago which literally didn't even touch an opposition player, and now these two. Nothing about the assault on Ibou which should have been a red, or the other assault on Ibou which should have been a red. Just so entrenched that you're literally digging for the tiniest thing AGAINST Liverpool, which isn't a great look for you chaps. And I'm sure thats not the intention.

That's a touch disingenuous. AIR isn't arguing against Liverpool, he's arguing against the idea of a deep rooted anti-Liverpool agenda. The Virgil incident was absolutely nothing IMO, but it's fair to say that if there was some sort of agenda, a referee could have argued the case that the incident deserved further action. Would've been ludicrous, but I'm sure if it was Sheff Utd player doing that to one of ours we'd have all felt the same. Maybe.

[Eeyore]

Again though, if those penalties had been given against us we'd have pages and pages of posts from you and Al showing us all how it's part of the corruption. But on these occasions, because it's Utd, they're clearly penalties that don't even deserve the time of a review. It's absolutely fine to think like that, we're fans. But we should probably recognise that we're not impartial - some things that are objective truths to us, simply aren't. All part of being a fan. Also probably why we need to leave this thread to die (recognising the life support I'm offering it by posting in it.)

For me Jarred Gillet a Liverpool fan shouldn't be doing United games end off. Yes if That first penalty was given against us I would be fuming and saying Gillet's bias may well have affected his judgement there.

So why not have neutral referees?

[Eeyore]

That's a touch disingenuous. AIR isn't arguing against Liverpool, he's arguing against the idea of a deep rooted anti-Liverpool agenda. The Virgil incident was absolutely nothing IMO, but it's fair to say that if there was some sort of agenda, a referee could have argued the case that the incident deserved further action. Would've been ludicrous, but I'm sure if it was Sheff Utd player doing that to one of ours we'd have all felt the same. Maybe.

Attwell though doesn't give contentious decisions he avoids them after being demoted from the select group early in his career. That was Attwell being Atwell and why he doesn't get the big games as Referee but is VAR a ridiculous number of times in our games.

I mean listen to the audio of Doku's challenge on Macca. He is reinventing history there just so he doesn't have to tell Oliver he has made a mistake.

[Avens]

For me Jarred Gillet a Liverpool fan shouldn't be doing United games end off. Yes if That first penalty was given against us I would be fuming and saying Gillet's bias may well have affected his judgement there.

So why not have neutral referees?

I'd love countries to do a ref swap because, I agree, the optics can be problematic regardless of whether or not there is actual bias. I don't think anyone is arguing that there aren't better ways of doing things, or that PGMOL is a functioning organisation - it's a shambles and needs fixing. Neutral referees are hard to prove, but perhaps easier to believe if they aren't English... or Australian