Topic: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!

[Andy @ Allerton!]

And just like that, troll number 2 shows up. A village somewhere is missing its idiot.

And you say, (Checks notes) that you aren't a dickhead.

Fair enough mate. Fair enough.

I honestly think that you and everyone else on this thread are good reds.

Is there any need for that shite mate? Really?

[Egyptian36]

I will change my mind about the PGMOL being corrupt if someone can show me the same situations like the beach ball or Diaz goal not given because the VAR official and his assistant thought it was given happening to any other team other than Liverpool.

Surely not that difficult with more than 300 game played every season all these years.

[Egyptian36]

I've replied to Redley a couple of times directly, and to you as well, but neither of you are interested in a debate. Both of you just go with the whole shtick of talking about me but not to me which is what I find very high school.

Think at one point or another everyone has said they're done with this thread only to end up returning, to be fair. But yeah, probably has run its course. I'll bow out of the thread properly now, I'm sure you'll be back to trolling me elsewhere. Bonjour del ya big weirdo.

Good for you. I encourage you to learn more about football during this time so you can understand what fouls are a red and what are not.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

Agree with that.

It isn't about being more or less of a Liverpool supporter. It is about whether non-scouse supporters understand how much hatred and prejudice exists against people from Liverpool. That is magnified in Manchester and is why for me Mancunian referees should not be taking charge of Liverpool games, especially games involving Manchester and Liverpool based teams.

This is a key, and often overlooked point which equally applies to the tragedy chanting thread.
There is huge anti scouse bias in and around Manchester. Anyone from here, who has worked or lived there will have experienced it for themselves. Personally I believe it is impossible for some of this not to seep through to even the most professional of refs.

But what do I know.

[Red Beret]

This is a key, and often overlooked point which equally applies to the tragedy chanting thread.
There is huge anti scouse bias in and around Manchester. Anyone from here, who has worked or lived there will have experienced it for themselves. Personally I believe it is impossible for some of this not to seep through to even the most professional of refs.

But what do I know.

There is huge anti-scouse bias all over the country. Maybe not in day to day life, but once the football starts everybody can hate on Liverpool guilt free, because it's a socially acceptable prejudice. And the minute we complain about it, it's all "where's the famous scouse sense of humour?"

It's one of the things I've been saying from the off. It is really just like the tragedy chanting, and it's from the same shitty source. People want someone else to look down on, so they can feel better about themselves. So they chant bs about the city that hasn't been true since the fucking 80s. (Crap about poverty and unemployment, when it's likely Liverpool is in marginally better shape than the places lobbing the insults.)

It's not banter. It's not "just football". And if people can't see how that attitude can bleed into the officiating - especially from the manc refs, then just close the thread. There's nothing left to discuss.

[Yorkykopite]

This is a key, and often overlooked point which equally applies to the tragedy chanting thread.
There is huge anti scouse bias in and around Manchester. Anyone from here, who has worked or lived there will have experienced it for themselves. Personally I believe it is impossible for some of this not to seep through to even the most professional of refs.

But what do I know.

They'd never vote for a scouser in Manchester. They certainly wouldn't make him Mayor of the city. 

[FlashGordon]

They'd never vote for a scouser in Manchester. They certainly wouldn't make him Mayor of the city. 

They'd vote for a potato with a Red rosette in Manchester.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

They'd never vote for a scouser in Manchester. They certainly wouldn't make him Mayor of the city. 

Are you a Scouser and have you worked in Manchester?

I'm not originally from Liverpool, but have worked in and around Manchester/Greater Manchester for around 30 years on and off. There is a huge bias against Liverpudlians, The City and the Club. There are, of course, also plenty of nice people in and around Manchester and there are some absolute weapons (The same in Liverpool and any other City or even town or place, obviously)

I've also seen anti-Scouse shite (Some directed at me) in the five or so years I've worked down South - again - the majority of people are nice, but some absolute weapons.

The stereotype of Scousers being lazy, thieving, cowardly shithouses is very evident. If you have a Scouse accent or people see you as Scouse then you'll see it. I've had some physical issues around some of these events, but luckily managed to deal with them in an appropriate way. The thing I like is that for every knuckle-dragging inbred Yorkshire or Southern or Manc shithouse, most of their mates are fine. Usually just one gobby fucker kicking it off.


You see an escalation of most things - an amplification - when you are in a crowd situation - as you know if you've been to the match - that's why we have a problem with the shithouse poverty and tragedy chanting that is very evident when we play certain clubs.

If you haven't seen it or you aren't a Scouser or you don't Live in Liverpool then it's probably not something you can comment on one way or the other I'd say. It does seem odd to me that you don't seem to believe it's even a thing? Do you not have any Scouse mates?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

They'd vote for a potato with a Red rosette in Manchester.

Potatoes are too clever for them.

[Andy82lfc]

They'd never vote for a scouser in Manchester. They certainly wouldn't make him Mayor of the city. 

United also had a Scouser as there top forward for the best part of a decade, so with that child’s logic I guess you are saying all those anti-scouse and abhorrent Hillsborough chants are just playful banter.

[Kloppage Time]

VVD cudda shudda been sent off V Sheffield, he wasn't, bullshit to say it was the exception that proves the rule (the normal out when things go in our favour) Sending VVD off and forcing him to miss Utd, Palace and Fulham (violent conduct ... strangling an opponent) would have severely lessened our chances in those games and wouldn't have been passed up by the overlords.

[Jm55]

Are you a Scouser and have you worked in Manchester?

I'm not originally from Liverpool, but have worked in and around Manchester/Greater Manchester for around 30 years on and off. There is a huge bias against Liverpudlians, The City and the Club. There are, of course, also plenty of nice people in and around Manchester and there are some absolute weapons (The same in Liverpool and any other City or even town or place, obviously)

I've also seen anti-Scouse shite (Some directed at me) in the five or so years I've worked down South - again - the majority of people are nice, but some absolute weapons.

The stereotype of Scousers being lazy, thieving, cowardly shithouses is very evident. If you have a Scouse accent or people see you as Scouse then you'll see it. I've had some physical issues around some of these events, but luckily managed to deal with them in an appropriate way. The thing I like is that for every knuckle-dragging inbred Yorkshire or Southern or Manc shithouse, most of their mates are fine. Usually just one gobby fucker kicking it off.


You see an escalation of most things - an amplification - when you are in a crowd situation - as you know if you've been to the match - that's why we have a problem with the shithouse poverty and tragedy chanting that is very evident when we play certain clubs.

If you haven't seen it or you aren't a Scouser or you don't Live in Liverpool then it's probably not something you can comment on one way or the other I'd say. It does seem odd to me that you don't seem to believe it's even a thing? Do you not have any Scouse mates?

As much as I disagree with a lot of what you say in this topic, I'm not really sure how anyone can make an argument against any of this.

Having dealt with Mancs ad infinitum myself it’s as clear as day, absolutely baffling to say anything else and it’s one of the reasons that Manchester based referees should be no where near our matches, from an optics perspective as much as anything else.

[Draex]

Are you a Scouser and have you worked in Manchester?

I'm not originally from Liverpool, but have worked in and around Manchester/Greater Manchester for around 30 years on and off. There is a huge bias against Liverpudlians, The City and the Club. There are, of course, also plenty of nice people in and around Manchester and there are some absolute weapons (The same in Liverpool and any other City or even town or place, obviously)

I've also seen anti-Scouse shite (Some directed at me) in the five or so years I've worked down South - again - the majority of people are nice, but some absolute weapons.

The stereotype of Scousers being lazy, thieving, cowardly shithouses is very evident. If you have a Scouse accent or people see you as Scouse then you'll see it. I've had some physical issues around some of these events, but luckily managed to deal with them in an appropriate way. The thing I like is that for every knuckle-dragging inbred Yorkshire or Southern or Manc shithouse, most of their mates are fine. Usually just one gobby fucker kicking it off.


You see an escalation of most things - an amplification - when you are in a crowd situation - as you know if you've been to the match - that's why we have a problem with the shithouse poverty and tragedy chanting that is very evident when we play certain clubs.

If you haven't seen it or you aren't a Scouser or you don't Live in Liverpool then it's probably not something you can comment on one way or the other I'd say. It does seem odd to me that you don't seem to believe it's even a thing? Do you not have any Scouse mates?

I’m from Manchester and live here Andy, I guess you never see the utter hypocrisy of you calling us all manc c*nts every day eh.. hatred is such a strong word and it’s wrong as a general sentiment.

“It isn't about being more or less of a Liverpool supporter. It is about whether non-scouse supporters understand how much hatred and prejudice exists against people from Liverpool. That is magnified in Manchester and is why for me Mancunian referees should not be taking charge of Liverpool games, especially games involving Manchester and Liverpool based teams.”

This especially is utter rubbish, I appreciate you didn’t post this.

[Dr. Beaker]

I'd love countries to do a ref swap because, I agree, the optics can be problematic regardless of whether or not there is actual bias. I don't think anyone is arguing that there aren't better ways of doing things, or that PGMOL is a functioning organisation - it's a shambles and needs fixing. Neutral referees are hard to prove, but perhaps easier to believe if they aren't English... or Australian 

Who is going to want ours?

[Draex]

Who is going to want ours?

Dubai?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I’m from Manchester and live here Andy, I guess you never see the utter hypocrisy of you calling us all manc c*nts every day eh.. hatred is such a strong word and it’s wrong as a general sentiment.

“It isn't about being more or less of a Liverpool supporter. It is about whether non-scouse supporters understand how much hatred and prejudice exists against people from Liverpool. That is magnified in Manchester and is why for me Mancunian referees should not be taking charge of Liverpool games, especially games involving Manchester and Liverpool based teams.”

This especially is utter rubbish, I appreciate you didn’t post this.

"The City and the Club. There are, of course, also plenty of nice people in and around Manchester"


I take people as they come in 'real life' - on a message board I sometimes talk some shite - especially after having a few pints.

For instance, although I don't have any Manc mates (I have several friends who Live in Manchester who are great - but none of them are from Manchester) - when I go on holiday, I've ended up sitting with and enjoying the company of Mancs and even (gasp!) Manchester United fans.  If people are decent then they are decent, doesn't matter where they come from.

But what I'm saying (if you bother to read my post above) - is that even though I'm not a Scouser, I've seen plenty of absolute shithouse stuff when I've worked in and around Manchester about Scousers.

I've worked in Liverpool as well and I haven't seen that the other way there isn't a 'thing' about Mancs in the workplace in Liverpool like there is about Scousers in Manchester.

I'd be interested to see why that is.

[Pistolero]

It isn't about being more or less of a Liverpool supporter. It is about whether non-scouse supporters understand how much hatred and prejudice exists against people from Liverpool. That is magnified in Manchester and is why for me Mancunian referees should not be taking charge of Liverpool games, especially games involving Manchester and Liverpool based teams. 

Spot on.

[Eeyore]

VVD cudda shudda been sent off V Sheffield, he wasn't, bullshit to say it was the exception that proves the rule (the normal out when things go in our favour) Sending VVD off and forcing him to miss Utd, Palace and Fulham (violent conduct ... strangling an opponent) would have severely lessened our chances in those games and wouldn't have been passed up by the overlords.

Can you please show us all the red cards for grappling prior to a set piece. Should Wissa have been sent off against Brighton mid week when he grappled Dunk to the floor. You know the one where Andy Madley decided it wasn't even a foul because Dunk initiated contact.

At every set piece the Sheffield United defender completely ignored the ball and grappled With van Dijk to stop him challenging for the ball. If you go down that route we should have had multiple penalties.

[DelTrotter]

Top stuff from Al and Andy in here!

[DelTrotter]

(violent conduct ... strangling an opponent)

  Potentially attempted murder too? He's very lucky.

[FlashGordon]

Yeah anyone calling that Van Dijk situation a red card and saying he strangled the opponent is an absolute wet wipe.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Can you please show us all the red cards for grappling prior to a set piece. Should Wissa have been sent off against Brighton mid week when he grappled Dunk to the floor. You know the one where Andy Madley decided it wasn't even a foul because Dunk initiated contact.

At every set piece the Sheffield United defender completely ignored the ball and grappled With van Dijk to stop him challenging for the ball. If you go down that route we should have had multiple penalties.

I would actually like to see pens for every grapple. It's gone out of control now.

Would be a bit 'meh' for a few weeks but then as more pens are given, people would settle down. It's football, not rugby. You can challenge in the air fairly for the ball without having to try and wrestle someone to the floor.

The game has changed and I often think that the rule book isn't fit for purpose. And to be fair (!!!) to the officials - pretty much all of it is entirely subjective - which allows 'concious' or 'unconcious' bias to be allowed.

If the Rule book was clear and said "IF THIS HAPPENS THEN THIS IS THE RESULT" - then all this arguing about how random refs can judge randomly would become less. I've said from the start all I want to see is that if A happens then B is always the outcome. We haven't got anything remotely like that now and it's ruined the game. No one knows what the fuck is going on most of the time.

[DelTrotter]

Nope utter rubbish, mypoian vitriol actually.

Nope, just you talking shit again.

[Eeyore]

I’m from Manchester and live here Andy, I guess you never see the utter hypocrisy of you calling us all manc c*nts every day eh.. hatred is such a strong word and it’s wrong as a general sentiment.

“It isn't about being more or less of a Liverpool supporter. It is about whether non-scouse supporters understand how much hatred and prejudice exists against people from Liverpool. That is magnified in Manchester and is why for me Mancunian referees should not be taking charge of Liverpool games, especially games involving Manchester and Liverpool based teams.”

This especially is utter rubbish, I appreciate you didn’t post this.

Do you have your fingers in your fucking ears when United go through their full reportoire of poverty chanting, tragedy chanting and anti scouse bile?

Rooney was probably their most loved player but they still sang anti scouse songs for 90 minutes. It is hate and prejudice and it needs addressing before we get another Sean Cox situation. Why do you think Manchester police have brought the kick off forward. In case the love in overflows.

[Jm55]

If the Rule book was clear and said "IF THIS HAPPENS THEN THIS IS THE RESULT" - then all this arguing about how random refs can judge randomly would become less. I've said from the start all I want to see is that if A happens then B is always the outcome. We haven't got anything remotely like that now and it's ruined the game. No one knows what the fuck is going on most of the time.

People say this all the time but in practice it doesn’t work.

Define a grapple? Unless you’re going to give a penalty for any contact in the box, the definition of what constitutes a grapple will always be subjective because somewhere it goes from being ‘touching’ to ‘grappling’.

I would absolutely do away with the clear and obvious stuff, if it was up to me I’d do away with VAR entirely but I appreciate that isn’t going to happen, but I don’t think you can get a definite rule book of what does and doesn’t constitute an offence as there will always be subjectivity in it.

[Draex]

Do you have your fingers in your fucking ears when United go through their full reportoire of poverty chanting, tragedy chanting and anti scouse bile?

Rooney was probably their most loved player but they still sang anti scouse songs for 90 minutes. It is hate and prejudice and it needs addressing before we get another Sean Cox situation. Why do you think Manchester police have brought the kick off forward. In case the love in overflows.

Thats a small portion of an entire city, thats the problem, you are using sweeping statements incorrectly.

[Draex]

"The City and the Club. There are, of course, also plenty of nice people in and around Manchester"


I take people as they come in 'real life' - on a message board I sometimes talk some shite - especially after having a few pints.

For instance, although I don't have any Manc mates (I have several friends who Live in Manchester who are great - but none of them are from Manchester) - when I go on holiday, I've ended up sitting with and enjoying the company of Mancs and even (gasp!) Manchester United fans.  If people are decent then they are decent, doesn't matter where they come from.

But what I'm saying (if you bother to read my post above) - is that even though I'm not a Scouser, I've seen plenty of absolute shithouse stuff when I've worked in and around Manchester about Scousers.

I've worked in Liverpool as well and I haven't seen that the other way there isn't a 'thing' about Mancs in the workplace in Liverpool like there is about Scousers in Manchester.

I'd be interested to see why that is.

This is what I put in the Utd thread awhile back, there are twats in every city, some more than others.

"I'm from and lived in Greater Manchester all my life and over the years I've heard Hillsborough slurs and come to blows with friends over their drunk insults. This dramatically shifted when the verdict came out to discussion and understanding around how badly wronged the fans were and it was ignorance driven by our media to perpetuate the lies. So there was a definite shift within the circle of people I know, and pre-verdict I'd say it was used with ignorance and no understanding of the actual impact of what happened, not that that was right and I made my feelings known at the time.

My point above is that for the "normal" fan I do believe there is better understanding and I think what we are now seeing are the marginals of fans getting greater voice as a reflection of society as a whole.

Since Brexit there is a shift in politics to this cesspit of Trumpism lies leading to hate rippling through society as a whole. Fueled by the right wing media and delivered by the most corrupt and self serving bunch of bastards in power. This has lead to the marginals of society feeling emboldened to speak out on their core nasty and hate spewing beliefs. You can see this in the amount of trouble happening in football, "away day yobs" getting coked up and fighting, it's not about football it's about being a c*nt, and c*nts then push on with the weak sheep following their lead. There is no consequence, they will blame someone else and it will just get worse as it's left unchecked.

The fix has always needed to come from above but I don't see any appetite for it in the current climate, it's why I can never ever understand a Liverpool fan being a tory."

[DelTrotter]

Bore off troll.

Says the shithouse trying to imply there's no hatred of scousers in Manchester, your football posts are dumb enough, in here you've reached an even bigger low.

You'll see how stupid your post is by 3.31pm tomorrow.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

People say this all the time but in practice it doesn’t work.

Define a grapple? Unless you’re going to give a penalty for any contact in the box, the definition of what constitutes a grapple will always be subjective because somewhere it goes from being ‘touching’ to ‘grappling’.

I would absolutely do away with the clear and obvious stuff, if it was up to me I’d do away with VAR entirely but I appreciate that isn’t going to happen, but I don’t think you can get a definite rule book of what does and doesn’t constitute an offence as there will always be subjectivity in it.

It's a really tricky one mate, agreed, one idea I had was that if something 'controversial' happened in the season then PGMOL should officially come out and say if the decision is right or wrong.

If it's right then every time it happens, it's dealt with in the same way. If it's wrong - then it's dealt with differently.


Reading the rules of the game, it looks like it was written by a chimp on acid. The wording, the directives and the tone is childish and so wooly that it's worse than useless.

I'm happy to go along with the idea that this crap document, written by a dickhead is not fit for purpose. Surely there could be a way that it could be binned and rewritten well by someone that knew what they were doing? The whole tone seems to be the idea of the way the game was supposedly thought to exist years ago. That game has gone. Things have moved on, but the rules appear to be stuck in the past.


What would be your opinion on the way we could address the randomness?  The differing outcome for the same situation is what drives most fans round the bend, I think we can agree?

[DangerScouse]

They'd never vote for a scouser in Manchester. They certainly wouldn't make him Mayor of the city. 

I can't be racist, I've a black friend.

[Kloppage Time]

Can you please show us all the red cards for grappling prior to a set piece. Should Wissa have been sent off against Brighton mid week when he grappled Dunk to the floor. You know the one where Andy Madley decided it wasn't even a foul because Dunk initiated contact.

At every set piece the Sheffield United defender completely ignored the ball and grappled With van Dijk to stop him challenging for the ball. If you go down that route we should have had multiple penalties.

I'm not saying it was a red card offence, but if as you say corruption is at play then VVD clearly putting his hand around an opponents neck is an ideal opportunity to rid LFC of it's captain for 3 games, the fact they didn't would suggest there is no corruption

[Eeyore]

Thats a small portion of an entire city, thats the problem, you are using sweeping statements incorrectly.

It isn't. Are you suggesting that if you go into a pub in a staunch United area you wouldn't hear the same things.

The kick-off off times for both City and United games against Liverpool have both been moved forward on Police advice there is a clear issue.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

This is what I put in the Utd thread awhile back, there are twats in every city, some more than others.

"I'm from and lived in Greater Manchester all my life and over the years I've heard Hillsborough slurs and come to blows with friends over their drunk insults. This dramatically shifted when the verdict came out to discussion and understanding around how badly wronged the fans were and it was ignorance driven by our media to perpetuate the lies. So there was a definite shift within the circle of people I know, and pre-verdict I'd say it was used with ignorance and no understanding of the actual impact of what happened, not that that was right and I made my feelings known at the time.

My point above is that for the "normal" fan I do believe there is better understanding and I think what we are now seeing are the marginals of fans getting greater voice as a reflection of society as a whole.

Since Brexit there is a shift in politics to this cesspit of Trumpism lies leading to hate rippling through society as a whole. Fueled by the right wing media and delivered by the most corrupt and self serving bunch of bastards in power. This has lead to the marginals of society feeling emboldened to speak out on their core nasty and hate spewing beliefs. You can see this in the amount of trouble happening in football, "away day yobs" getting coked up and fighting, it's not about football it's about being a c*nt, and c*nts then push on with the weak sheep following their lead. There is no consequence, they will blame someone else and it will just get worse as it's left unchecked.

The fix has always needed to come from above but I don't see any appetite for it in the current climate, it's why I can never ever understand a Liverpool fan being a tory."

I haven't worked in Manchester for a few years now, so hopefully you're right and there is less of the anti-Scouse shite that went on (And as I said - it's never been the other way around in Liveprool that I've seen - though I accept there will be low-lifes and scallies that may think different - same in every place you live)

The chants at Old Trafford in the last game was something else. I've been to Old Trafford probably twenty times and if you've been (I guess you have) then every time there has a been a large band of their fans singing shite - years ago - there would be a sizeable number of ours that after getting abuse for x amount of time would 'crack' and then sing shite back. That seems to have stopped and when someone 'cracks' - it's individuals rather than loads - from what my mates that went ( I don't go there any more - it pissed me off more and more and now I can't be arsed after a particularly unpleasant trip back home and issues at the train station and on the train) they said that it was individuals on our side, but pretty much the entire ground - and you could hear that on the telly very, very clearly for much of the game.

Is it Brexit that's caused this? Is it the Tories?  For me it's disappointing if Manchester (Which voted Remain) is being swayed by right-wing knobheads and the like - then that's disappointing - I've always thought of Manchestrer being very similar to Liverpool in many ways and to be pretty left-leaning.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I'm not saying it was a red card offence, but if as you say corruption is at play then VVD clearly putting his hand around an opponents neck is an ideal opportunity to rid LFC of it's captain for 3 games, the fact they didn't would suggest there is no corruption

So you are 100% 'corrupt' or you are 100% 'pure and saintly and glow faintly in the dark with your sainted goodness'

I think you'll find every aspect of life is full of shades of grey in every situation.

[Eeyore]

I'm not saying it was a red card offence, but if as you say corruption is at play then VVD clearly putting his hand around an opponents neck is an ideal opportunity to rid LFC of it's captain for 3 games, the fact they didn't would suggest there is no corruption

That is so wrong it's untrue. You are using something that even you don't think is Red Card offence as proof that there isn't corruption. It is very simple the corruption is allowing the bias to continue. What next no one from the PGMOL has tried to assassinate Kloppo. I mean imagine how much harm that would do to our title challenge. The fact they haven't suggests there is no corruption.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

It isn't. Are you suggesting that if you go into a pub in a staunch United area you wouldn't hear the same things.

The kick-off off times for both City and United games against Liverpool have both been moved forward on Police advice there is a clear issue.

It's always, always gone on with them - if you've walked down that 'Mancunian Way' then all I've every heard down there is 99% of them singing all sorts of shite trying to get Liverpool fans to react so a mob can kick fuck out of you. I always went through there in neutral colours and my head down.

Not heard it as clearly on the telly as the last game - though in the ground, they were always singing shite - just not as many of them as there is now.

No way the club or the police or the stewards will get a grip on it. The only way it'll get sorted is if the decent Manchester United fans say 'This is shite. This needs to stop'

Like our fans - we used to sing some shite and now we don't because if you tried to do an aeroplane or sing about Munich then you'd either get told to fuck off, lamped or blown up to a Steward or Copper.

Saw one lad a few years back being a twat and everyone cheered when he got dragged out. Just no place for it now.

Saying that, I would hazard a guess that if I were on a Happy Als on an away (Don't do aways much any more) then you'd still hear shite - which is poor, but not much you can do if a dickhead is being a dickhead on a bus. The one time I asked someone to stop being an arsehole, I spent the entire journey back having empty cans lobbed a the back of my head, so tend to keep my gob shut thesedays in those situations..

[CHOPPER]

It isn't. Are you suggesting that if you go into a pub in a staunch United area you wouldn't hear the same things.

The kick-off off times for both City and United games against Liverpool have both been moved forward on Police advice there is a clear issue.

No they weren’t, the city game was moved by request of city.

[DangerScouse]

I'm not saying it was a red card offence, but if as you say corruption is at play then VVD clearly putting his hand around an opponents neck is an ideal opportunity to rid LFC of it's captain for 3 games, the fact they didn't would suggest there is no corruption

So convserely, the numerous incidents in the Spurs game, the non penalties against both title rivals suggests there is corruption?

[DangerScouse]

No they weren’t, the city game was moved by request of city.

The reasoning behind said change is due to fan safety. Merseyside Police called for the earlier kick-off following issues in previous meetings between two increasingly bitter rivals. City's team-bus was damaged by fans on its way out of Anfield in October 2022, while Liverpool supporters were subject to chants relating to Heysel and Hillsbrough tragedies from the City section. The earlier kick-off has been granted as part of the police's attempts to lower the risk of fan altercation before the match

[Andy @ Allerton!]

No they weren’t, the city game was moved by request of city.

Probably trying to help their fans that had 'traffic problems' - hard to drive a car when you're dressed up like a blue seat.