Topic: Stevie G and Saudi Arabia

[rscanderlech]

You can dislike his subsequent decisions, but there is no denying that he forewent obvious titles and a higher salary at Chelsea, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, AC Milan and elsewhere, only out of loyalty to his local club. He did both those things despite clearly being a very ambitious personality. I have been watching football since 2001 and the only other truly top player I can think of who did this is Totti. Hence, I think it warrants a degree of acknowledgement in this thread.

The world isn't black-and-white: people are full of contradictions, and you can disagree strongly with one aspect/decision of a person while still appreciating others.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Fuck him, I'd have done the same right up until he decided that learning from the Boss wasn't for him, downhill in every aspect from there.

[rscanderlech]

Fuck him, I'd have done the same right up until he decided that learning from the Boss wasn't for him, downhill in every aspect from there.

In practice, I think the only other actual player at that level to do that since 2001 is Totti. So it's clearly very rare.

[Red Beret]

I'm sure plenty of good - even legendary - players of the club have been complete dickheads off the pitch. Gerrard is just the latest to taint his legacy. And he'll have zero regrets for it.

Will be interesting to see if he becomes a pundit after this and shits all over the club like so many others are only too happy to do.

[Kashinoda]

One slight defense I'd give for Gerrard, Hendo and the like is that they live in a completely different bubble to us.

It's a bit like Robertson flogging NFTs, I doubt he knows anything about them and how they're used.

[Pistolero]

Scouse Legend.

[Fromola]

You can dislike his subsequent decisions, but there is no denying that he forewent obvious titles and a higher salary at Chelsea, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, AC Milan and elsewhere, only out of loyalty to his local club. He did both those things despite clearly being a very ambitious personality. I have been watching football since 2001 and the only other truly top player I can think of who did this is Totti. Hence, I think it warrants a degree of acknowledgement in this thread.

The world isn't black-and-white: people are full of contradictions, and you can disagree strongly with one aspect/decision of a person while still appreciating others.

He'd all but gone to Chelsea in 2004 and had to be massively talked out of it and reluctantly gave us another year. The club really dug in over that as he'd been tapped up to go there. He'd have gone in 2005 had we not won the CL and still nearly left that summer.

He'd also threatened to leave in 2010 had he not got his own way (Rafa sacked, Hodgson coming in). He then fucked off the minute he was told his minutes were getting managed when his legs had gone about 3 years before.

The bottom line is he stayed, and he's a club legend, but I wouldn't hold him as the bastion of one-club loyalty.

[rscanderlech]

He'd all but gone to Chelsea in 2004 and had to be massively talked out of it and reluctantly gave us another year. The club really dug in over that as he'd been tapped up to go there. He'd have gone in 2005 had we not won the CL and still nearly left that summer.

He'd also threatened to leave in 2010 had he not got his own way (Rafa sacked, Hodgson coming in). He then fucked off the minute he was told his minutes were getting managed when his legs had gone about 3 years before.

The bottom line is he stayed, and he's a club legend, but I wouldn't hold him as the bastion of one-club loyalty.

The bottom line is, all of those times you mention where you feel his conduct was questionable or he nearly left, he stayed. He didn't go anywhre. When he finally left, it was when he was washed up, and it's completely normal for a player to leave at that point. It frankly helps with respect to wages and new leadership in the team etc. He gave us his best years and took painkilling injections to perform for Liverpool.

I'm not suggesting Gerrard is an angel (or a demon for that matter). I'm one of the ones trying to add nuance in the thread and remember the world isn't black and white. Show me how many generational talents of the last 20 years stayed at their club even despite never winning a league title, winning less overall than their talent warranted, and taking an effective career-long paycut, relative to their peers at Europe's other elite clubs. Overall, irrespective of individual low moments in his relationship with the club, his loyalty is the one thing that is clearly hard to deny.

Memories are so short.

[Fromola]

The bottom line is, all of those times you mention where you feel his conduct was questionable or he nearly left, he stayed. He didn't go anywhre. When he finally left, it was when he was washed up, and it's completely normal for a player to leave at that point. It frankly helps with respect to wages and new leadership in the team etc. He gave us his best years and took painkilling injections to perform for Liverpool.

I'm not suggesting Gerrard is an angel (or a demon for that matter). I'm one of the ones trying to add nuance in the thread and remember the world isn't black and white. Show me how many generational talents of the last 20 years stayed at their club even despite never winning a league title, winning less overall than their talent warranted, and taking an effective career-long paycut, relative to their peers at Europe's other elite clubs. Overall, irrespective of individual low moments in his relationship with the club, his loyalty is the one thing that is clearly hard to deny.

Memories are so short.

He was unfortunate not to win more but between 2005 and 2009 he was playing for one of the best teams in Europe under a manager who knew how to get the best out of him (none of his internationals managers did). Should have won at least one more CL and a league title just in that period. It's not like he was Le Tissier at Southampton or Shearer at Newcastle and never going to win anything.

Always thought for his own sake he should have gone in 2010 when Real were interested, the Hicks and Gllett era had caught up with us by then and Hodgson was only taking us backwards, but he had a hand in getting him here.

[Red Beret]

Wonder how he'll manage with his mate Hendo heading for the exit? He's not exactly covered himself in glory in this farmers league.

[paulrazor]

Wonder how he'll manage with his mate Hendo heading for the exit? He's not exactly covered himself in glory in this farmers league.

well we will find out because he has seemingly agreed a two year extension

[classycarra]

Wonder how he'll manage with his mate Hendo heading for the exit? He's not exactly covered himself in glory in this farmers league.

he's just been given a contract extension. maybe a reward for helping rid them of Henderson

[paulrazor]

he's just been given a contract extension. maybe a reward for helping rid them of Henderson

seemingly promised funds, probably all of Hendo's salary

[Bread]

Evrery time this thread gets bumped, I expect the news of Gerrard's imminent sacking. The 2 year extension seems baffling to me. Maybe they're more arsed about Gerrard's profile than his actual ability to get results.

[Libertine]

Maybe they're more arsed about Gerrard's profile than his actual ability to get results.

Pretty sure that's all they were ever arsed about. For Gerrard and all the others.

[classycarra]

Pretty sure that's all they were ever arsed about. For Gerrard and all the others.

given they signed our worst player and hired multiple of our lower quality ex-players (especially Fowler!) I think you're right

[Lynx the saucy mynx]

Evrery time this thread gets bumped, I expect the news of Gerrard's imminent sacking. The 2 year extension seems baffling to me. Maybe they're more arsed about Gerrard's profile than his actual ability to get results.

I know there is always jokes online about if Eddie Howe keeps losing matches he would be beheaded etc. But it wouldn’t surprise me after the bad look of Henderson leaving so quickly, that he felt pressured into signing a new contract.

Not the best comparison, but it seems very Man City getting a hearing date, on the same day as Richard Masters Government hearing levels of coincidence to me.

[thaddeus]

Evrery time this thread gets bumped, I expect the news of Gerrard's imminent sacking. The 2 year extension seems baffling to me. Maybe they're more arsed about Gerrard's profile than his actual ability to get results.

Surely they weren't worried about Gerrard walking out on them.  As Wayne Rooney has shown a name opens doors but Gerrard is only in the running for jobs at basket case clubs unless he turns things around considerably.

Assuming they haven't already done so there must be plans to get a photo of all the high profile Saudi league recruits together at some point.  That's PR which they can live off for a long time.

[Keith Lard]

I’d never want Stevie managing us, but I do think some need to tone down the vitriol in here against him a bit. I understand it but you know …

[Too early for flapjacks?]

I think I read in the summer that the President of Ettifaq is a Liverpool fan? If true, not surprised he can't see what a poor manager Gerrard is. Hopefully they'll pick up more players we need to move on.

[Samie]

2 year extension. He's going to be filthy rich.

https://twitter.com/David_Ornstein/status/1747938234728907256

EXCL: Steven Gerrard agrees 2yr contract extension as Al Ettifaq head coach. Existing deal runs until 2025 - new terms to expire in 2027. Club hierarchy will continue commitment to provide funds for signing players + developing #AlEttifaq @TheAthleticFC

[Redley]

Fair play to him, if you're going to sell out you might as well go 100%.

Completely tapped out of being any sort of top level manager at the age of 43.

[Yorkykopite]

2 year extension. He's going to be filthy rich.

https://twitter.com/David_Ornstein/status/1747938234728907256

From Outer Space to Beyond the Event Horizon.

He can have that as the title for his follow-up autobiography.

[rossipersempre]

£15m a year, tax free. Absolute fraud of a manager being paid that.

Ancelotti is on 6m euro net.

[Too early for flapjacks?]

£15m a year, tax free. Absolute fraud of a manager being paid that.

Ancelotti is on 6m euro net.

Klopp is rumoured to be on £15m a year. But of course he's paying 45% to the tax man. So Gerrard is taking home around twice as much. Crazy world we live in.

[Keith Lard]

He’s not a shit manager. He led Rangers to a title and was competent in the Villa job. Most definitely not up to snuff for a top job, but let’s not sway from a truthful analysis.

His big name makes him valuable in countries that need to raise their profile.

And I think when the Al ettifaq gig is up, he’d still be considered for lower half prem jobs and championship jobs. He’s well spoken, well presented and still commands respect in the game. Don’t take this to mean I’d want him near the Liverpool job ever.

[Koplass]

Completely tapped out of being any sort of top level manager at the age of 43.

Really is odd considering his profile as a player. Desperate to win things at the highest level, swayed by glory and principle rather than money. As a manager, he's the total opposite.

[Redley]

He’s not a shit manager. He led Rangers to a title and was competent in the Villa job. Most definitely not up to snuff for a top job, but let’s not sway from a truthful analysis.

His big name makes him valuable in countries that need to raise their profile.

And I think when the Al ettifaq gig is up, he’d still be considered for lower half prem jobs and championship jobs. He’s well spoken, well presented and still commands respect in the game. Don’t take this to mean I’d want him near the Liverpool job ever.

Neil Lennon won loads of Scottish titles and I'm not sure how else you'd describe him

He might not be a completely shit manager but he's clearly woefully unambitious, and doesnt have much confidence in his ability. He's had one job which ended badly and instead of regrouping and starting again a little lower down, he's completely sold out to a retirement league.

[classycarra]

Really is odd considering his profile as a player. Desperate to win things at the highest level, swayed by glory and principle rather than money. As a manager, he's the total opposite.

'd have to have a proper search, but I remember PhaseOfPlay wrote a great little summary of the coaches perspective of ex-players who go straight into quite senior coaching jobs without the prior experience of lower profile specialists (rather that ex players).

feel like one of the things he mentioned was that they tend to burn brightly, but lack staying power. definitely seems to cover the likes of Gerrard, who's almost immediately called in quits at the first sign of struggle (in senior job number 2)

[Koplass]

feel like one of the things he mentioned was that they tend to burn brightly, but lack staying power. definitely seems to cover the likes of Gerrard, who's almost immediately called in quits at the first sign of struggle (in senior job number 2)

Interesting you should say that, I was listening to a podcast recently with an ex-navy seal talking about how they'd often get former athletes applying for the role and when it came to the really tough parts of the training course, they'd quit.

His theory was that they'd been told they're amazing their whole lives and then when they suddenly weren't amazing at something, they didn't have much resilience. Whereas the people who were school drop outs, for example, were used to criticism so they'd stick with it and be more likely to pass. 

[Samie]

If he buys players from us who we deem not up to it any more by all means Stevie. 

[Red Beret]

You could put a chicken in charge of Rangers or Celtic and still have a 50/50 chance of winning the league. Especially with the right backroom staff, as Gerrard had. He did well in Scotland, no denying it, but its a low bar.

The Saudi league is arguably much worse and Gerrard is doing crud. Six wins and 28 points behind the leaders. He's basically the Saudi version of Hodgson at Palace. You only have to look at where Emery has Villa to see how much Gerrard underachieved there.

I don't know what kind of profile he is giving to Al Ettifaq in particular, or the Saudi League in general. The only reason we talk about him is because he's ex-LFC. It would probably just look even more comically bad for them if they fucked Gerrard off as well as Henderson after a matter of months. They'll be expecting a big improvement from him.

[Samie]

The owner of Ettifaq is a self confessed Liverpool fan. 

[JP!]

He’s not a shit manager. He led Rangers to a title and was competent in the Villa job.

He is, and he was not even slightly competent at Villa, let's be honest.

Leading Rangers to a title is famously difficult, only a luminary like Alex McLeish could achieve that.

[Too early for flapjacks?]

Gerrard impressed at Rangers. The total of 102 points his title winning team achieved has only been bettered twice since the SPL was formed in 1998. That team also set the SPL record of the least goals conceded in an SPL season with 13. He also did consistently well in the Europa League by getting them out of the group and being competitive in the knockout stage against decent sides.

But after a bright start at Villa, it went downhill quite sharply and he didn't seem to have the tools to deal with it. Called out one or two players publically. Also seems to be a bit of a cheque manager in that he consistently mentions the need to bring in players.

My guess is his ego is too big to take a job at the top end of the Championship and with the Liverpool job now just a distant dream he doesn't have much motivation.

[Fromola]

Neil Lennon won loads of Scottish titles and I'm not sure how else you'd describe him

He might not be a completely shit manager but he's clearly woefully unambitious, and doesnt have much confidence in his ability. He's had one job which ended badly and instead of regrouping and starting again a little lower down, he's completely sold out to a retirement league.

His Scottish stint can be looked at two ways.

The good:
They were much improved in Europe during his time there
He won the league, stopping Celtic win 10 in a row

The bad:
He was there 4 seasons and won only one trophy. That's not good enough for Rangers, even if they were struggling when he took over. Although he left half way through his last season, Celtic had sorted themselves out and were back on top again
St Johnstone won both domestic cups the year Rangers won the league. His domestic cup record was particularly poor.
Celtic were woeful the season Rangers won it (in a 2 horse race) and it was the behind closed doors season.
Gerrard was on the brink of the sack when Covid kicked off and then the pause for lockdowns saved his job and then after the break they won the league the next year
By all accounts Mick Beale did all the tactical work (Villa fell to pieces after he left Villa for a manager job)

But his spell at Rangers didn't warrant a big Premier League job. He's done as a manager in England and his ego would never let him try and rebuild his reputation at a level that might get him a job (League One/League Two). Plus the salary would be miniscule compared to what he's on now.

[rob1966]

He’s not a shit manager. He led Rangers to a title and was competent in the Villa job. Most definitely not up to snuff for a top job, but let’s not sway from a truthful analysis.

His big name makes him valuable in countries that need to raise their profile.

And I think when the Al ettifaq gig is up, he’d still be considered for lower half prem jobs and championship jobs. He’s well spoken, well presented and still commands respect in the game. Don’t take this to mean I’d want him near the Liverpool job ever.

Yes, he's a useful idiot to be used as a tool for the sportswashing of a barbaric regime, who put people to death for the hell of it, execute gay people, murder journalists.

That's why he's getting shit on here

[rob1966]

The owner of Ettifaq is a self confessed Liverpool fan. 

Wearing goggles and airpods while playing togger? 

[Keith Lard]

Yes, he's a useful idiot to be used as a tool for the sportswashing of a barbaric regime, who put people to death for the hell of it, execute gay people, murder journalists.

That's why he's getting shit on here

I can't argue with it to be honest ... I just try and temper my feelings out of respect for some of the great moments he gave us on the field.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

He isn't being paid to manage a football team, he's being paid to con idiots into attending the WC.