Topic: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD - 2023 (FSG posts = get muted)

[Knight]

Yep, 'roles' are much more important than nominal starting positions. Was it phaseofplay who used to talk about that? So for example in theory Salah has been our right sided wide forward since 2017 but when Firmino was first choice he was, in reality, our main goalscoring threat. He may not have played in the 'no 9' position or worn that shirt number, but it was his role.

[killer-heels]

There is a question of what players you get on the field. Right now we go with a front three and at least one attacking midfielder, maybe 2. City play with a front three and even they have supported that with De Bruyne and Silva. Arsenal too with a front three, Havertz and Odegaard have made the field.

Basically the league is set up to get a lot of attacking players on the field.

[Knight]

There is a question of what players you get on the field. Right now we go with a front three and at least one attacking midfielder, maybe 2. City play with a front three and even they have supported that with De Bruyne and Silva. Arsenal too with a front three, Havertz and Odegaard have made the field.

Basically the league is set up to get a lot of attacking players on the field.

interesting. Is everyone is basically finding ways of having 5 more defensive players and 5 more offensive players?  City play 4 defenders who only really defend and Rodri.  In the 343 system the wingbacks become more offensive. Whether that works depends on their quality I guess.

[killer-heels]

interesting. Is everyone is basically finding ways of having 5 more defensive players and 5 more offensive players?  City play 4 defenders who only really defend and Rodri.  In the 343 system the wingbacks become more offensive. Whether that works depends on their quality I guess.

Maybe, does give you a level of assurance that you have enough to stop counters. City and Arsenal do it different ours but what we can say is that its changed even compared to a few years ago.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Yes they should be. The only thing is I have read that he is insistent on playing 3 at the back. I dont fully believe that but we will see. Like I said if any manager comes in with that mindset then it could be a problem.

He might be insistent with his current players, but he'll be moving to a club with Van Dijk and Konate. They don't need the added protection and I'm sure any competent manager will see that.

[rawcusk8]

BRING US KUDUS!!!!

[MonsLibpool]

BRING US KUDUS!!!!

We should be buying players like that earlier.

[Garlic Red]

BRING US KUDUS!!!!

How we could have done with Paqueta during that summer they signed him. Guessing he didn’t pass the background checks

[Schmidt]

A West Ham player with 5 years left on his contract? Should be gettable for a reasonable fee.

[rawcusk8]

How we could have done with Paqueta during that summer they signed him. Guessing he didn’t pass the background checks

Yep, isn’t there some pending charges? He should move to City, their lawyers can just add his case to their 115.

[Barefoot Doctor]

How we could have done with Paqueta during that summer they signed him. Guessing he didn’t pass the background checks

Paqueta looked a stats unicorn, I reckon we’d have gone for him if Edwards was still around at the point we moved. Kudus too, but he was in a weaker league.

[Asam]

Paqueta looked a stats unicorn, I reckon we’d have gone for him if Edwards was still around at the point we moved. Kudus too, but he was in a weaker league.

No point in crying over spilled milk now, hopefully Hughes and Edwards will be much more proactive and less risk averse

[red mongoose]

If it's Amorim, maybe he'll go get Ugarte and bring him back into his fold.

[Drinks Sangria]

If it's Amorim, maybe he'll go get Ugarte and bring him back into his fold.

That would be a very cultured move.

[Sangria]

If it's Amorim, maybe he'll go get Ugarte and bring him back into his fold.

Ugarte will need to get into the groove if the boy's getting his move.

[Draex]

Ugarte will need to get into the groove if the boy's getting his move.

Lots of talk we're scouting Morten Frendrup who is very similar to Ugarte.

[Sangria]

Lots of talk we're scouting Morten Frendrup who is very similar to Ugarte.

Is this a Madonna reference that I don't recognise?

[Barefoot Doctor]

Amorim certainly likes a classic DM doesn’t he. Palhinha, Ugarte… would he just go with Endo or would he want someone else in that position?

[killer-heels]

Amorim certainly likes a classic DM doesn’t he. Palhinha, Ugarte… would he just go with Endo or would he want someone else in that position?

Depends on what you want your system to be. If he wants to play 3 at the back then we absolutely need another centreback as well. We have four at the moment hut that seems light. I also would question whether we need a left wing back as well. If he then wants another midfielder then thats three players right there and we then havent discussed whether the front three is of the right balance he wants.

Its why I believe he will look to keep 4 at the back and that gives him scope to focus on maybe the additional qualities he wants rather than to boost numbers in positions. Our squad is not geared to 3-4-3.

[5-times-Phill]

3 at the back and a new manager might mean that Sepp Van den Berg gets a chance next season.
By all accounts he’s had a really strong season so far. Would still need another one, especially if Matip goes, but a back three would give a 6th choice centre half plenty of game time.

[DelTrotter]

Need a million cb's if the new guy wants 3 at the back, Ibou pretty much only counts as half a player due to the amount of rest, injury, managing minutes etc required

[Knight]

Maybe, does give you a level of assurance that you have enough to stop counters. City and Arsenal do it different ours but what we can say is that its changed even compared to a few years ago.

Well not today City aren’t! 4 attacking players and 6 defensive. So negative.

[Chris~]

Any manager wanting/needing multiple centre backs and specialist wing backs shouldn't be considered. Would be a bad way to build the squad

[Phineus]

Any chances we can nab Adingra in summer? Looks a real talent.

[MonsLibpool]

Any chances we can nab Adingra in summer? Looks a real talent.

He reminds me of a young Sadio Mane. Would have been perfect for us and he can play on both wings. Brighton got him for a very decent price due to their MCO and he was ready after a year out on loan.

He'll be too expensive now.

[red mongoose]

He reminds me of a young Sadio Mane. Would have been perfect for us and he can play on both wings. Brighton got him for a very decent price due to their MCO and he was ready after a year out on loan.

He'll be too expensive now.

The exciting thing is that we'll be identifying several of our own Adingra types and putting them into our MCO. It's going to be fun.

[Hazell]

He reminds me of a young Sadio Mane. Would have been perfect for us and he can play on both wings. Brighton got him for a very decent price due to their MCO and he was ready after a year out on loan.

He'll be too expensive now.

This is why FSG want another club, Tony Bloom style.

[Phineus]

He reminds me of a young Sadio Mane. Would have been perfect for us and he can play on both wings. Brighton got him for a very decent price due to their MCO and he was ready after a year out on loan.

He'll be too expensive now.

It would be a high fee sure but I think the wages would be very modest within our model, so the overall package is probably one we can afford. I don’t think they’ll be getting caicedo level fees for any of their players anytime soon again.

[lionel_messias]

He reminds me of a young Sadio Mane. Would have been perfect for us and he can play on both wings. Brighton got him for a very decent price due to their MCO and he was ready after a year out on loan.

He'll be too expensive now.

Fish-SLAP to the face for using the term MCO buddy!

😂

[MonsLibpool]

Fish-SLAP to the face for using the term MCO buddy!

😂

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[spider-neil]

If you're going to get anyone from Brighton then get their scouting team as they seem to have a conveyor belt of talent they pick up for peanuts.

[spider-neil]

Amorim certainly likes a classic DM doesn’t he. Palhinha, Ugarte… would he just go with Endo or would he want someone else in that position?

Baj shouldn't be ignored.

[Garlic Red]

If you're going to get anyone from Brighton then get their scouting team as they seem to have a conveyor belt of talent they pick up for peanuts.

Think we have a data team that’s probably just as advanced as theirs although we’ll never quite know.

I think yesterday’s game was a good example of why we couldn’t do what Brighton do in the market. I can remember quite a lot of fans wanting us to sign that Baleba as they all said he’ll be the next Caicedo. He might well be. But, he’s nowhere near it yet and that’s the difference. We need to sign players who are nearly there with a little bit to go, they can sign players that can take 12-36 months to come along and develop them in the Premier League or at their other clubs. I always hark back to Solanke when people suggest we sign top teenagers, he was a good example of someone who needed years of playing to develop and he was never getting that here. Someone like Evan Ferguson was probably well advised when he decided to go to Brighton over us as he’s started far more games there than he would have here in the same time.

FSG are probably going to get a second club which should open the possibility to signing more 17-20 year olds with a view to them being future Liverpool players. I think we’ve done the right thing targeting u-17 players for the academy like Baj, Doak, Clark etc but even that is ordinarily quite a difficult thing to consistently manage players from academy to senior level. It’s a testament to the players and the coaching staff that it looks like we’ve found a winning formula.

It feels like Chelsea have tried the Brighton approach but spent much vaster sums. I wouldn’t say it’s worked out yet although it’s obviously a medium to long term strategy, it’ll be interesting to see how the likes of Andrey Santos, Casadei, Ugochukwu, Washington etc. get along as Chelsea players or if they all end up going out on loan and being sold for profit. I think we’re the type of club that would rather sign them to actually play for the first team rather than it be a strategy to make profit, with the sale kind of being a last resort when we conclude they aren’t good enough.

[Redley]

There’s levels.

Adringa looks a good player. This season he’s got a G/A every 215 minutes. That’s a lot, lot worse than our ‘poorest’ performing attacker in that respect. If we had one of our attackers with those stats we’d be talking about replacing him. Considering how most of Brightons big sales have gone on to perform elsewhere I’d say there’s a fair chance their set-up is making players look a lot better than they actually are, which is testament to the manager but maybe not something we need to pine for.

[Chris~]

Yeah I think I've made this point before, but it's not just the scouting, it's the contacts in the area and being able to sell a pathway that gets them some of these players. It's why Dortmund were able to bring in players like Sancho, Bellingham, Haaland as a higher level example. They weren't unknowns but players knew they could give them a platform and wouldn't stand in there way. I am massively sceptical of a multi-club model having any real benefit for us that you wouldn't get by just doubling the acadmey budget, which would cost a lot less overall. Brighton can take risks on say Mitoma and Caicedo and making them starters, giving the talent the platform+minutes which we can't. And if you aren't giving them chances the better talents will go to places like Brighton/Dortmund/Red Bull where they will have a clear pathway. You're also probably taking away chances for the acadmey by doing this which I think after this season you'd say is a massive mistake.

[Fromola]

Think we have a data team that’s probably just as advanced as theirs although we’ll never quite know.

I think yesterday’s game was a good example of why we couldn’t do what Brighton do in the market. I can remember quite a lot of fans wanting us to sign that Baleba as they all said he’ll be the next Caicedo. He might well be. But, he’s nowhere near it yet and that’s the difference. We need to sign players who are nearly there with a little bit to go, they can sign players that can take 12-36 months to come along and develop them in the Premier League or at their other clubs. I always hark back to Solanke when people suggest we sign top teenagers, he was a good example of someone who needed years of playing to develop and he was never getting that here. Someone like Evan Ferguson was probably well advised when he decided to go to Brighton over us as he’s started far more games there than he would have here in the same time.

FSG are probably going to get a second club which should open the possibility to signing more 17-20 year olds with a view to them being future Liverpool players. I think we’ve done the right thing targeting u-17 players for the academy like Baj, Doak, Clark etc but even that is ordinarily quite a difficult thing to consistently manage players from academy to senior level. It’s a testament to the players and the coaching staff that it looks like we’ve found a winning formula.

It feels like Chelsea have tried the Brighton approach but spent much vaster sums. I wouldn’t say it’s worked out yet although it’s obviously a medium to long term strategy, it’ll be interesting to see how the likes of Andrey Santos, Casadei, Ugochukwu, Washington etc. get along as Chelsea players or if they all end up going out on loan and being sold for profit. I think we’re the type of club that would rather sign them to actually play for the first team rather than it be a strategy to make profit, with the sale kind of being a last resort when we conclude they aren’t good enough.

Chelsea's model for a while has been to sign a shitload of good young players and either get them into their team or sell them for a profit. They've always had an army of players out on loan. It's worked for them in the sense that they've made a ton of money in sales for years. It's not worked in the sense that some of those sales have been the likes of Salah and De Bruyne because at least under Abramavich there was never any patience beyond the last result and a constant churn of managers is preventative to team building. And Boelhy is a nutcase himself.

[classycarra]

Yeah I think I've made this point before, but it's not just the scouting, it's the contacts in the area and being able to sell a pathway that gets them some of these players. It's why Dortmund were able to bring in players like Sancho, Bellingham, Haaland as a higher level example. They weren't unknowns but players knew they could give them a platform and wouldn't stand in there way. I am massively sceptical of a multi-club model having any real benefit for us that you wouldn't get by just doubling the acadmey budget, which would cost a lot less overall. Brighton can take risks on say Mitoma and Caicedo and making them starters, giving the talent the platform+minutes which we can't. And if you aren't giving them chances the better talents will go to places like Brighton/Dortmund/Red Bull where they will have a clear pathway. You're also probably taking away chances for the acadmey by doing this which I think after this season you'd say is a massive mistake.

think that's a really rational post, which sets out the most like outcome of the multi club model.

ultimately it feels to me that it's more of a model to keep the executives entertained with a more interesting project than 'business as usual' (and possibly that was the only avenue to getting Edwards in), but I wouldn't expect it to be much more of a success over the alternatives you mention.

Don't think it'd be anything like as unsuccessful or pernicious as Boehly entertaining himself LARPing as a director of football at chelsea, but I think it's a similar premise anyway (without the financial risk of Boehly's spending and long contract gamble - unless footballing adminstrators threaten severe punshments for multi club owners, as I hope, but that's not likely)

[Garlic Red]

Way I see it is it’s a chance to operate more closely in another country that’s known for producing talent (Portugal). On the flip side of that, it’s also a great place to recruit developing talent from South America for them to make their first steps in European football.

You have a team in Portugal set up with some of Portugal’s best operators. You start to recruit talent, invest in facilities at the club etc so talents want to go there and play for that club. You then approach 16-18 year old South Americans and get them over as soon as they can, playing in a country where they can speak the language (Brazilians) and probably be with other Spanish speaking South Americans. They begin to play if they’re ready and they move on when they’re ready. Some could be to us, some could just be sales or some could stay if their aim is to win with that club.

I’m not sure that’s something we could really look to do by investing in our academy. I think we’ve got our academy spot on at the moment with recruitment. The second club thing means they could almost have two academies in different countries trying to produce and develop talent from other parts of the world.

I’m against MCO, but the benefits seem really good if you’ve got intelligent operators setting the clubs up and investing in them to develop facilities and coaching staff.

[Barefoot Doctor]

Reckon Edwards and co will be intrigued by Summerville at Leeds.

[classycarra]

I’m against MCO, but the benefits seem really good if you’ve got intelligent operators setting the clubs up and investing in them to develop facilities and coaching staff.

don't forget the price fixing. and using super agents to sell the project to the kids who are gonna be attempted to be funneled through the assembly line