Topic: UAPs over America: real or balloons??

[PROPER crazyemlyn72]

Listening to the interview, I find out hard to believe he's lying? I can't see anything today suggests that. Seen a few major attempts at smearing him. But it's not sticking. The man is a boy scout.

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

And when this - yet again - amounts to nothing, how long will it take before there is a new 'controlled disclosure' is just around the corner? How many times will this need to occur before you begin to suspect that it will never happen and it is just one giant grift?

Hey up Jiminy

No point bringing up the same old tiresome arguments on here, let’s just see what happens over the near future. I doubt it’s a giant grift, but that’s not to say there aren’t grifters, there's plenty about.

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

Listening to the interview, I find out hard to believe he's lying? I can't see anything today suggests that. Seen a few major attempts at smearing him. But it's not sticking. The man is a boy scout.

Yeah, the attempts to smear him were disgusting, using his autism and PTSD. I could be a poor judge of character, but totally agree with you on him.

If he is not lying and is indeed telling the truth as he believes it to be, then for me the only alternative, which is that he has been used as some kind of elaborate disinformation psyop stooge just doesn’t make any sense and is way to far fetched.

[thejbs]

Hey up Jiminy

No point bringing up the same old tiresome arguments on here, let’s just see what happens over the near future. I doubt it’s a giant grift, but that’s not to say there aren’t grifters, there's plenty about.

But it’s the same old tiresome ‘just around the corner’ stuff. Jiminy’s argument is maybe only tiresome because he’s had so many opportunities to use the retort. When is the near future? How far away is that corner?

[PROPER crazyemlyn72]

But it’s the same old tiresome ‘just around the corner’ stuff. Jiminy’s argument is maybe only tiresome because he’s had so many opportunities to use the retort. When is the near future? How far away is that corner?

Really feels different now. So many people coming forward, the likes of Lacatski, an insider, saying they have stuff. Obama a few years ago saying they have stuff flying around that can't be explained, and now grusch and his Co workers all coming forward, including people that have given first hand testimony on official record. It's really a bigger stretch to say a psyop is more believable than NHI. But it's starting to become a flood of info l leaking out. No one has shown Grusch to be a liar, and good knows they tried.

[Alan_X]

Lacatski wrote Skinwalkers at the Pentagon with Kelleher and George Knapp. Do you think poltergeists and dino- beavers are credible too?

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

But it’s the same old tiresome ‘just around the corner’ stuff. Jiminy’s argument is maybe only tiresome because he’s had so many opportunities to use the retort. When is the near future? How far away is that corner?

That’s your perception and fair enough. I don’t think it’s correct based on current happenings. People say what happens in the near future (my guess next is the 6 months) will depend a lot on as to what form the Schumer UAP amendment passes and whether it keeps its teeth. So there still seems to be some variables at the moment.

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

Lacatski wrote Skinwalkers at the Pentagon with Kelleher and George Knapp. Do you think poltergeists and dino- beavers are credible too?

It’s a shame that this kind of tone and ridicule is used to shut down genuine talk on the topic. It’s why I have stayed away from this thread. Seems nothing has changed.

*Edit
It would have been nice to have caught up on current events with people who had an interest in focusing on them.

[BarryCrocker]

But it’s the same old tiresome ‘just around the corner’ stuff. Jiminy’s argument is maybe only tiresome because he’s had so many opportunities to use the retort. When is the near future? How far away is that corner?

Sounds almost cultish.

Social scientists have found that while some group members will leave after the date for a doomsday prediction by the leader has passed uneventfully, others actually feel their belief and commitment to the group strengthened. Often when a group's doomsday prophecies or predictions fail to come true, the group leader will simply set a new date for impending doom, or predict a different type of catastrophe on a different date. Niederhoffer and Kenner say: "When you have gone far out on a limb and so many people have followed you, and there is much 'sunk cost,' as economists would say, it is difficult to admit you have been wrong."

[lionel_messias]

Away from any woo woo, Majority leader Chuck Schumer wrote his amendment to the NDAA. Worth looking up.

It either passes or gets blocked/diluted by the Houses. How soon?
By Christmas they say.

If it passes there is a framework (and timetable) for the release of UAP information to the public next year.

That's it really.

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

Away from any woo woo, Majority leader Chuck Schumer wrote his amendment to the NDAA. Worth looking up.

It either passes or gets blocked/diluted by the Houses. How soon?
By Christmas they say.

If it passes there is a framework (and timetable) for the release of UAP information to the public next year.

That's it really.

Yeah that is the current situation from a legislative perspective. Interesting that Grusch said that Schumer would not have written and proposed an amendment of this significance without the go ahead/blessing of the White House  particularly Jake Sullivan. Which stands to reason. And it seems that Karl Nell was a large contributor to the amendment.

I’m fairly positive the amendment will pass without being diluted too much. There seems to be some parallel aim of the Schumer amendment with the purpose of the Sol Foundation, the Schumer amendment has a focus on releasing over classified documentation and the Sol Foundation focusing on the future implications of UAP, but both efforts bringing folks from academia together to build policy.

[TheShanklyGates]

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ysz0ZBVU1yQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ysz0ZBVU1yQ</a>

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

This topic is just mad. Trying to thnk about this in a neutral and unbiased way, which I always try to and in light of lack of undisputable proof, it’s so hard to come to any firm conclusion what the hell is going on.

You have to virtually weigh up what I think is most likely based on probabilities or least unlikeliests and making an assessment based off that. In the cold light of day, all options seems so far fetched whether that’s the claims the US has NHI craft and biologics or the alternative that this has been some elaborate 80 year psyop of some kind.

Latest word is the Schumer UAP amendment is about to hit the rocks. If the private contractors and MIC have nothing to hide then what are they scared of by this legislation to torpedo it? Then some people say it doesn’t matter whether this legislation passes or not, because one way or another the secrecy is coming to an end. It’s all fecking crazy.

[thejbs]

This topic is just mad. Trying to thnk about this in a neutral and unbiased way, which I always try to and in light of lack of undisputable proof, it’s so hard to come to any firm conclusion what the hell is going on.

You have to virtually weigh up what I think is most likely based on probabilities or least unlikeliests and making an assessment based off that. In the cold light of day, all options seems so far fetched whether that’s the claims the US has NHI craft and biologics or the alternative that this has been some elaborate 80 year psyop of some kind.

Latest word is the Schumer UAP amendment is about to hit the rocks. If the private contractors and MIC have nothing to hide then what are they scared of by this legislation to torpedo it? Then some people say it doesn’t matter whether this legislation passes or not, because one way or another the secrecy is coming to an end. It’s all fecking crazy.

Highlighted the important bits

[Elmo!]

This topic is just mad.

You're not wrong. 

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

Highlighted the important bits

  You’ll never have me saying otherwise on this whichever way it turns out, if it ever turns out at all 

[Jiminy Cricket]

This topic is just mad. Trying to thnk about this in a neutral and unbiased way, which I always try to and in light of lack of undisputable proof, it’s so hard to come to any firm conclusion what the hell is going on.

You have to virtually weigh up what I think is most likely based on probabilities or least unlikeliests and making an assessment based off that. In the cold light of day, all options seems so far fetched whether that’s the claims the US has NHI craft and biologics or the alternative that this has been some elaborate 80 year psyop of some kind.

Latest word is the Schumer UAP amendment is about to hit the rocks. If the private contractors and MIC have nothing to hide then what are they scared of by this legislation to torpedo it? Then some people say it doesn’t matter whether this legislation passes or not, because one way or another the secrecy is coming to an end. It’s all fecking crazy.

So, the backtracking has already begun. Bloody hell.

As per:

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ysz0ZBVU1yQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ysz0ZBVU1yQ</a>

How long before a new date/timeline is set? And then revised/scrapped again?

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

So, the backtracking has already begun. Bloody hell.

As per:How long before a new date/timeline is set? And then revised/scrapped again?

No idea to be honest, it might mean something, it may mean nowt! But this was sort of foreseen last weekend, when Karl Nell said not to be too concerned if the Schumer amendment hits snags as there are parallel efforts besides that. His lecture will be released soon, so more on that to come. Of course there is a bit of Twitter meltdown in some quarters, overreaction always happens.

So no denying, a lot of hopes and interest has been pinned on this, but it’s up for debate what it really means in the bigger picture. Some say if it gets watered down too far, then these other 40 whistleblowers who have gone to the IC but not gone public yet, may go public if it fails. It’s all kinda speculation at this point. My gut feeling is it doesn’t matter what happens regarding the amendment, there’s too much momentum, but could be totally wrong. I’m personally not jumping to any conclusions on what’s gonna unfold between now and Q1 2024, seems to be too many moving pieces.

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

This looks like one of the more weird videos. Supposedly filmed by a Boeing pilot at 37k feet on 19th December. Looks like 5 objects taking it in turns to dance around. Could of course be something ordinary.

https://x.com/528vibes/status/1728001818435743978?s=46&t=Gbx7GQaiYVBpRpdP0GKC5g

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

No idea to be honest, it might mean something, it may mean nowt! But this was sort of foreseen last weekend, when Karl Nell said not to be too concerned if the Schumer amendment hits snags as there are parallel efforts besides that. His lecture will be released soon, so more on that to come. Of course there is a bit of Twitter meltdown in some quarters, overreaction always happens.

So no denying, a lot of hopes and interest has been pinned on this, but it’s up for debate what it really means in the bigger picture. Some say if it gets watered down too far, then these other 40 whistleblowers who have gone to the IC but not gone public yet, may go public if it fails. It’s all kinda speculation at this point. My gut feeling is it doesn’t matter what happens regarding the amendment, there’s too much momentum, but could be totally wrong. I’m personally not jumping to any conclusions on what’s gonna unfold between now and Q1 2024, seems to be too many moving pieces.

Just one other thing to add. No one knows yet what part of the amendment is being snagged. There has always been resistance to the “eminent domain” section which is about where the government gives aerospace contractors several months to come clean and hand over whatever technology of unknown origin that they have in their possession or the government will seek to take it by force. This was always expected to be heavily revised, because why should contractors who have invested billions in research just hand these materials over. A compromise was hoped to be reached.

Or are there attempts to torpedo the amendment completely and is this likely to succeed as things stand?

Edit. It’s like a soap opera.

[thejbs]

No idea to be honest, it might mean something, it may mean nowt! But this was sort of foreseen last weekend, when Karl Nell said not to be too concerned if the Schumer amendment hits snags as there are parallel efforts besides that. His lecture will be released soon, so more on that to come. Of course there is a bit of Twitter meltdown in some quarters, overreaction always happens.

So no denying, a lot of hopes and interest has been pinned on this, but it’s up for debate what it really means in the bigger picture. Some say if it gets watered down too far, then these other 40 whistleblowers who have gone to the IC but not gone public yet, may go public if it fails. It’s all kinda speculation at this point. My gut feeling is it doesn’t matter what happens regarding the amendment, there’s too much momentum, but could be totally wrong. I’m personally not jumping to any conclusions on what’s gonna unfold between now and Q1 2024, seems to be too many moving pieces.

I would say that it's not hard to foresee it hitting the rocks when you know that there's no truth in it.  Like, I'll confidently state now that no evidence of intelligent extraterrestrial life will be discovered within my lifetime.

That a proponent of UAPs is saying to temper expectations ahead of an announcement reeks of snake oil.

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

I would say that it's not hard to foresee it hitting the rocks when you know that there's no truth in it.  Like, I'll confidently state now that no evidence of intelligent extraterrestrial life will be discovered within my lifetime.

That a proponent of UAPs is saying to temper expectations ahead of an announcement reeks of snake oil.

I accept that will be the take of some, it’s understandable. Only thing I know, is there’s sure to be many twists and turns ahead. There will probably be times when feel more bombastic about it and other times where think it’s gonna come to nowt. I think it’s been a remarkable year for the topic so far all in all.

I probably don’t intend to be on here too heavily going forwards as I’m really more of a reader than a writer by nature and it also becomes a bit too consuming for me, so have to regulate against that.

[lionel_messias]

Just one other thing to add. No one knows yet what part of the amendment is being snagged. There has always been resistance to the “eminent domain” section which is about where the government gives aerospace contractors several months to come clean and hand over whatever technology of unknown origin that they have in their possession or the government will seek to take it by force. This was always expected to be heavily revised, because why should contractors who have invested billions in research just hand these materials over. A compromise was hoped to be reached.

Or are there attempts to torpedo the amendment completely and is this likely to succeed as things stand?

Edit. It’s like a soap opera.

Not just a soap opera, it is a political thriller.

The allegation is special access groups having been spending Millions of US tax payers money on certain programmes. Grusch and others have said these are "crash retrieval programmes". He further said he's referred 30-40 people to the Inspector General who can confirm this account.

Schumer amendment was to compel these SAPs to fess up and contractors, like Lockheed Martin and Raytheon to not only admit but also to present physical material to Congress.

Now senior Republicans are working overtime to block this amendment...


WHY?

It's just all so odd. People always say, "this is all nothing, there is nothing to see and nothing to reveal."

If that was the case, why not allow Congress to see what they have? If the Tic-Tac is some advanced craft the US has, then cool, very very cool (I mean, they'll let conflicts go on around the world but not intervene with magical craft but still): show this to Congress and someone will stand up and say, "Yeah, there is nothing non-human about all this, this is a US project and it is classified. Thanks folks."

The Sol Foundation had around 300 attendees. What is the probability every single one of those is deranged or mentally ill?

Must be very very low.

No one has been able to make a solid prediction on this topic for 75 years, and while there has been fairly remarkable progress when you think about it, bit hard to foresee where we go next.

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

Not just a soap opera, it is a political thriller.

The allegation is special access groups having been spending Millions of US tax payers money on certain programmes. Grusch and others have said these are "crash retrieval programmes". He further said he's referred 30-40 people to the Inspector General who can confirm this account.

Schumer amendment was to compel these SAPs to fess up and contractors, like Lockheed Martin and Raytheon to not only admit but also to present physical material to Congress.

Now senior Republicans are working overtime to block this amendment...


WHY?

It's just all so odd. People always say, "this is all nothing, there is nothing to see and nothing to reveal."

If that was the case, why not allow Congress to see what they have? If the Tic-Tac is some advanced craft the US has, then cool, very very cool (I mean, they'll let conflicts go on around the world but not intervene with magical craft but still): show this to Congress and someone will stand up and say, "Yeah, there is nothing non-human about all this, this is a US project and it is classified. Thanks folks."

The Sol Foundation had around 300 attendees. What is the probability every single one of those is deranged or mentally ill?

Must be very very low.

No one has been able to make a solid prediction on this topic for 75 years, and while there has been fairly remarkable progress when you think about it, bit hard to foresee where we go next.

The eminent domain legislation is a contentious subject even for the pro disclosure folks. Jacques Vallee even brought it up in a question to Nell at the weekend, concerned of the implications for private citizens and academic researchers being ordered to give up these materials in their possession.

My prediction is that is 12 months time, there will have been proper official confirmation of possession of either NHI materials or biologics or both. I also thought we were deffo gonna win the title in 2014 btw.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Yeah, it does seem like we are in the midst of the early stages of a controlled disclosure. Christopher Melons new article is really good

And when this - yet again - amounts to nothing, how long will it take before there is a new 'controlled disclosure' is just around the corner? How many times will this need to occur before you begin to suspect that it will never happen and it is just one giant grift?

Hey up Jiminy

No point bringing up the same old tiresome arguments on here, let’s just see what happens over the near future. I doubt it’s a giant grift, but that’s not to say there aren’t grifters, there's plenty about.

But it’s the same old tiresome ‘just around the corner’ stuff. Jiminy’s argument is maybe only tiresome because he’s had so many opportunities to use the retort. When is the near future? How far away is that corner?

That’s your perception and fair enough. I don’t think it’s correct based on current happenings. People say what happens in the near future (my guess next is the 6 months) will depend a lot on as to what form the Schumer UAP amendment passes and whether it keeps its teeth. So there still seems to be some variables at the moment.

The eminent domain legislation is a contentious subject even for the pro disclosure folks. Jacques Vallee even brought it up in a question to Nell at the weekend, concerned of the implications for private citizens and academic researchers being ordered to give up these materials in their possession.

My prediction is that is 12 months time, there will have been proper official confirmation of possession of either NHI materials or biologics or both. I also thought we were deffo gonna win the title in 2014 btw.

Just 24 hours to push it back by six months. And another 24 hours to push it back to 12 months. That did not take long. I predict there will be further pushing back in 6 months and 12 months (and probably a lot sooner).

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

Just 24 hours to push it back by six months. And another 24 hours to push it back to 12 months. That did not take long. I predict there will be further pushing back in 6 months and 12 months (and probably a lot sooner).

Nothing has changed in 24 hours.

I get where your cynicism is coming from, it’s obviously long been the running joke and probably with some good reason, that disclosure is just always around the corner. It’s a quick win to dismiss it all. But I didn’t say the President was going to announce we are not alone before the end of this year!

I ain’t been following topic that long, only since around late 2020. But I do think a process started in 2017 that is going to come to a conclusion within the next 12 months. Let’s hope so as it’s going to get very boring before too long.

[thejbs]

I accept that will be the take of some, it’s understandable. Only thing I know, is there’s sure to be many twists and turns ahead. There will probably be times when feel more bombastic about it and other times where think it’s gonna come to nowt. I think it’s been a remarkable year for the topic so far all in all.

I probably don’t intend to be on here too heavily going forwards as I’m really more of a reader than a writer by nature and it also becomes a bit too consuming for me, so have to regulate against that.

It may twist and turn like a rollercoaster, but ultimately we'll end up with the same conclusion. UAPs are not extraterrestrial visitors. And that will never be accepted by those who want to believe the opposite.

And, as I've said before, I would absolutely love to find out that we're being visited by advanced interstellar (or, hell, inter-dimensional) beings, but subjective wishing and hoping doesn't get in the way of objective reality.

[Alan_X]

It’s a shame that this kind of tone and ridicule is used to shut down genuine talk on the topic. It’s why I have stayed away from this thread. Seems nothing has changed.

*Edit
It would have been nice to have caught up on current events with people who had an interest in focusing on them.

Are you saying Lakatski is ridiculous? That's not very nice...

Really feels different now. So many people coming forward, the likes of Lacatski, an insider, saying they have stuff...

[lionel_messias]

As a reminder, Chuck Schumer sponsored NDAA legislation after having classified briefings on UAP in 2022.
He is a 'Gang of 8' member with top security clearance.

I don't think anyone doubts the House Majority Leader is one of most serious politicians around. This is what he put his name to, in legislation:

"Unveiled publicly in July 2023 by Senate Majority Leader and Democrat Chuck Schumer, the UAP Disclosure Act proposes the creation of a Review Board dedicated to disclosing information and materials related to UAP.

The Review Board would be composed of nine U.S. citizens nominated by President Biden and would have had the authority to assess and advise on the release of UAP information and records. Additionally, any potential biological evidence indicating non-human intelligence and the craft they operate would be disclosed to the public.

Under the plan, any materials or biological evidence of unknown origin or non-human origin would be subject to the power of eminent domain exercised by the U.S. Federal Government, meaning Lockheed Martin or any other aerospace company that might be in possession would be required to surrender them to the Government."

If it does not pass after strenuous opposition by key Republicans, it will interesting and illuminating to ask the question.....Why?

[Alan_X]

We already know that politicians can believe the most ridiculous shite. A lot of the current nonsense traces back to Schumer’s mentor (his phrase) Sen Harry Reid who was introduced to Bigelow (Skinwalker Ranch) by George Knapp. Sadly for me, Schumer being sucked in doesn’t add credence to the UFO nonsense. It just highlights the persuasive power of conspiracies and story-telling about hidden secrets.

No one wants to be the child who climbs into a wardrobe and just feels the wooden panel at the back. We all want to be the child who push through the coats and finds Narnia. Of course anyone with a spark of wonder would love the alien visitors to be real but there’s simply nothing there. When you investigate, all there is is the back of the wardrobe.

[PROPER crazyemlyn72]

An awful lot of effort to block that legislation. When you add in what Grusch is saying, youd have to be curious.

[thejbs]

That someone is a US senator doesn't make them not prone to the odd bout of stupidity. I thought that would've been clear by now with even a cursory glance at US politics. That a good whack of them are creationists and a couple of dozen politicians across both chambers believe in QAnon.

The most damning thing of all, though, is that Donald Trump hasn't said anything of note on the subject. If there was evidence of alien contact at Schumer's level of clearance, then Trump would know of it too. And if Trump knew, it would've been on Truth Social by now.

[Jiminy Cricket]

That someone is a US senator doesn't make them not prone to the odd bout of stupidity. I thought that would've been clear by now with even a cursory glance at US politics. That a good whack of them are creationists and a couple of dozen politicians across both chambers believe in QAnon.

The most damning thing of all, though, is that Donald Trump hasn't said anything of note on the subject. If there was evidence of alien contact at Schumer's level of clearance, then Trump would know of it too. And if Trump knew, it would've been on Truth Social by now.

Are you suggesting that belief in drunk alien visitors who keep crashing spaceships on Earth, and that there is World-wide cover up by all Governments is too nuts of a conspiracy theory for Trump? That there are limits, even to his lunacy!?

[BER]

Just imagining where this thread would be without all the healthy scepticism. 

[lionel_messias]

We already know that politicians can believe the most ridiculous shite. A lot of the current nonsense traces back to Schumer’s mentor (his phrase) Sen Harry Reid who was introduced to Bigelow (Skinwalker Ranch) by George Knapp. Sadly for me, Schumer being sucked in doesn’t add credence to the UFO nonsense. It just highlights the persuasive power of conspiracies and story-telling about hidden secrets.

No one wants to be the child who climbs into a wardrobe and just feels the wooden panel at the back. We all want to be the child who push through the coats and finds Narnia. Of course anyone with a spark of wonder would love the alien visitors to be real but there’s simply nothing there. When you investigate, all there is is the back of the wardrobe.

I know you love to repeat and rehearse that all roads lead to Skinwalker Ranch but I'll say again, Schumer is briefed and this is a man who will
not put into legislation something he had not had cause to stand behind.

It remains very interesting that senior Republicans got very very agitated and mobilised to block Schumer's NDAA amendment. Even Mitch McConnell became involved and by all accounts he is not a well man.

The Schumer amendment has not been confirmed but it sounds like it will be today.

If there is nothing in this and it is hearsay and bunkum, then you let the amendment pass, and see what's in those SAPs, surely.





I get scepticism right. It is natural and we should all have it. What I don't understand is when sensible folk, who have nothing to gain by discussing a topic which is still pretty "Woo Woo", tell you they have seen data and collected information over years and decades, they get dismissed out of hand because it doesn't fit a narrative.


I go back to Christopher Mellon. The guy does not need all this shit! He is not selling books, he's from one of the wealthiest families in America; meaning he ain't on no grift. If he is saying there is something in this, me personally, I listen to what he says and why he's saying it. Norad pretty much tracks everything around the globe, coming in and out of the atmosphere, you're telling me they don't have data worth opening up to more scientists?


Not a chance.


When a group of people tell you it's Swamp gas, it's balloons, it's optical illusions, it's weather, it's the Chinese. It's the British, it's the Belgians!


Eventually I say, okay but "Why the long face." "And why is Mitch McConnell sweating?"

[Jiminy Cricket]

I go back to Christopher Mellon. The guy does not need all this shit! He is not selling books, he's from one of the wealthiest families in America. If he is saying there is something in this, me personally, I listen. Norad pretty much tracks everything around the globe, coming in and out of the atmosphere, you're telling me they don't have data worth opening up to more scientists?

So, it comes down to forelock tugging for you. Now I understand.

[PROPER crazyemlyn72]

So, it comes down to forelock tugging for you. Now I understand.

thats a childish reply, we all knew what he meant.

[Jiminy Cricket]

thats a childish reply, we all knew what he meant.

It was an 'appeal to authority'. But when 'authority' is bestowed upon the wealthy simply for being wealthy, what else is it if not forelock tugging? The reasoning given for 'listening to Mellon' was specious at best.

[Alan_X]

thats a childish reply, we all knew what he meant.

Not really. Instead of actual evidence we’re just told we have to believe all of these people because… reasons. Schumer this, Mellon that, Grusch the other.

It’s interesting that since I’ve binned Twitter this is the only place I hear those names (Grusch, Mellon, Knapp etc). The story that was going to shake the world to its foundations is of no interest to anyone but the 0.01% who are UFO believers and a few active skeptics like West.

I’m listening to the audiobook of Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan and Ann Druyan. Written 30 years ago it covers alien visitation and abductions and nothings changed. Mellon, Grusch, Knapp and the rest are just re-hashing the same old stories. It points out just how unimaginative the descriptions of the spaceships and aliens are and how they change with the times.

[thejbs]

they get dismissed out of hand because it doesn't fit a narrative.

No. They get dismissed out of hand because it doesn’t fit objective reality. Let’s call it what it is, rather than conjuring up some ‘narrative’ bollocks.

If you are positing something that defies the laws of physics, you’d better present concrete, observable evidence.