Topic: A time to reflect honestly or nothing to worry about ?

[LifelongRed, Sussex]

This is the crux of the problem for me, especially in midfield.  We've prided ourselves on being great in the transfer market (and we are), but we couldn't move on any of midfielders on high wages with little future here nor did we strengthen at all.

It's like:
-Tchouameni:  top choice, prefers Real, exorbitant price tag, what can we do?
-Bellingham:  won't move this summer, probably too expensive anyway
-Camavinga (last year) and Gravenberch (this year):  two of the most talented young midfielders in the world, both with only 1 year left on their contracts and very affordable; the former preferred Real and the latter preferred Bayern; ah well
-Caicedo:  too raw to sign directly from South America; too expensive to sign this summer
-Laimer:  prefers Bayern on a free; no can do

We can't sign our first choices because of price/preference.  We can't sign affordable talented players because they prefer other clubs.  We can't sign other young players because they're too inexperienced.  We can't sign players like Tielemans because he doesn't fit our system (but we'll get Arthur?).

Can we sign anyone?  The best club in the world at transfers can't find a midfielder aged 22-28 that's physically and technically gifted?

I'd imagine Klopp and co thought we had the numbers at least to make a go of it this year and address next year, so it's not like the owners blatantly screwed him or something (we had a ton of senior midfielders), but towards the end of the summer, when it was clear we should make a move, the best we did was an injury-prone player on loan.

It's weirdly deflating because after we've won everything, we aren't any better at signing players than before.  We get some really good deals done, but we leave ourselves short at inopportune times.  It's also just strange for a club of this size and success to have everyone feel like:  "Nah, we don't have the money for him.  He doesn't want to come here.  His agent is too difficult to deal with.  His girlfriend prefers London, etc."  We really should be focused on building a squad with Klopp to win, not consoling ourselves and reasoning why we can't sign anyone.  It's a strange mentality.  I don't like the FM/FIFA-type thinking ("Why didn't we sign Haaland?") as it's all fanciful nonsense, but at the same time, how are we a club of this magnitude in the middle of a successful period and literally we don't think we're capable of signing players.

I agree.

FSG, with a lot of indirect help from Klopp, has turned us into a £500m annual income club, that’s at the very top table.

Yet non-CL Arsenal and no-CL-money-yet Spurs outspend us on transfer fees by a huge margin.  The latter whilst paying for a £1b stadium and they took out huge pandemic bank loans.

The only major fly in the Liverpool ointment is a big player wage commitment, the club are generous payers to multiple trophy winners.  Mane’s agent post exit revealed that Mane had been on far greater wages at Liverpool, than the media (and guessing websites) had thought.

The club missed a trick in making the most of having the services of a managerial great, by enhancing the centre midfield with real quality of a younger age.

Whilst an array of clubs with similar or far inferior income are increasingly ruthless in transfer windows, with a laser focus on building great squads of an athletic age band.

I hope FSG with the advice of Klopp and Ward are quick learners.  I hope that Klopp and Ward are communicating the deficiencies to the owners in very clear terms.

[Dim Glas]

Dont care about Bellingham. He is a symptom of somehow the bar to be signed for Liverpool becoming far, far too high.

Do we even sign a Wijnaldum type signing now, or a Matip?

it’s like they jumped a step in recruitment. Gone form getting players who where good but still a ‘project’ with a good bit of room to improve, to wanting absolute top of the pile (as in touchemi) and Bellingham (cost wise). I know they pushed the narrative of it being hard to improve this team over the past couple years, but you can't always stand still, and it is possible to improve without just getting that high echelon player. This waiting for players thing is biting them in the arse too.

[RedBec1993]

Wasn’t Diaz 37 million? Absolute bargain for a player of his quality. Michael Edwards last signing as well.

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

Wasn’t Diaz 37 million? Absolute bargain for a player of his quality. Michael Edwards last signing as well.

We apparently also moved for him after discovering Spurs agreed a fee and we hoped to actually buy him this past summer instead of January 22.

[Samie]

Wasn’t Diaz 37 million? Absolute bargain for a player of his quality. Michael Edwards last signing as well.

Julian Ward's first. He was negotiating that transfer. 

[RedBec1993]

Julian Ward's first. He was negotiating that transfer. 

Edwards would have had a key role to play no doubt. Maybe overseen it.

[RedBec1993]

We apparently also moved for him after discovering Spurs agreed a fee and we hoped to actually buy him this past summer instead of January 22.

The correct way to do things 😁

[Shaneee.]

We easily need 2 or 3 players to go straight into the starting 11 and a few more to strengthen the bench. Standing still while all those around us strengthen is my biggest gripe with FSG

[Coolie High]

FSG have failed us.

[LifelongRed, Sussex]

FSG have failed us.

They lucked out with Klopp.  His genius covered transfer net spend stinginess.

[JerseyKloppite]

The worry with this is that the players look shattered. It's hard to envision any significant turnaround this season when our game is so structured around fitness and pressing and we're almost bottom of the league for sprints (having never been lower than 2nd before). It impacts the whole side - if the forwards and midfielders don't press, it's easier for teams to take their time and play through our defence, which is having its own issues.

I agree we should have signed another player or two this summer, but frankly getting Tchouameni in doesn't resolve this mess. The combination of last season's exertions, a short summer due to the WC and an apparently hugely intensive pre-season (leading to injuries to a number of players) and the failure to bring in a couple of fresh faces is a clusterfuck that makes top 4 look an enormous challenge right now.

Stuck this in the Klopp Template thread but seems equally applicable here. To me it seems like a failing on all fronts which has combined to really kick us:
- Last season. On the back of several long, intense seasons which took a lot out of the players, we had the longest season possible, the culmination of which was hugely physically and mentally draining.
- The WC. This pushed the start of the season back so the players barely got any time off, all the more significant after the season we've had. We've also had to fit all our PL and CL games into a reduced timeframe with no let up at all.
- Preseason. Players have gone on record as saying it was one of the most intense they've done, and we've lost various players to injury (which is undoubtedly in conjunction with the above).
- Recruitment. Few were calling for more defenders or forwards this summer after Nunez came in. But midfield has been a quagmire of an issue. Coming into the season with our first choice players the wrong side of 30 (and Thiago with various injury issues), Fabinho's form dipping, Jones and Elliot still relatively inexperienced, Keita a seemingly endless enigma of form and fitness, and Ox crocked and plainly on the wane, everyone wanted a new midfielder. But we didn't sign one.
- Performances. Again it's linked to the above, but some of the individual performances from players simply haven't been good enough, particularly given the consistent quality we'd seen in previous years. Trent, Robbo, Virgil, Fabinho, Mo all wobbling badly. And so much expected from Nunez given the fanfare and the price tag.

So there's no one quick fix that would have solved everything, frankly. As others have said, we've sleepwalked into the issue with our midfield to an extent by failing to replace/upgrade the likes of Milner, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Keita. But one or two more signings don't for me sort all of this out. This is a collective burnout, mental and physical, which probably meant that a real dip in performances this season was almost unavoidable. The worry is just how big this dip proves to be, and the long term implications of a possible failure to secure a CL place for next season.

[mrantarctica]

Stuck this in the Klopp Template thread but seems equally applicable here. To me it seems like a failing on all fronts which has combined to really kick us:
- Last season. On the back of several long, intense seasons which took a lot out of the players, we had the longest season possible, the culmination of which was hugely physically and mentally draining.
- The WC. This pushed the start of the season back so the players barely got any time off, all the more significant after the season we've had. We've also had to fit all our PL and CL games into a reduced timeframe with no let up at all.
- Preseason. Players have gone on record as saying it was one of the most intense they've done, and we've lost various players to injury (which is undoubtedly in conjunction with the above).
- Recruitment. Few were calling for more defenders or forwards this summer after Nunez came in. But midfield has been a quagmire of an issue. Coming into the season with our first choice players the wrong side of 30 (and Thiago with various injury issues), Fabinho's form dipping, Jones and Elliot still relatively inexperienced, Keita a seemingly endless enigma of form and fitness, and Ox crocked and plainly on the wane, everyone wanted a new midfielder. But we didn't sign one.
- Performances. Again it's linked to the above, but some of the individual performances from players simply haven't been good enough, particularly given the consistent quality we'd seen in previous years. Trent, Robbo, Virgil, Fabinho, Mo all wobbling badly. And so much expected from Nunez given the fanfare and the price tag.

So there's no one quick fix that would have solved everything, frankly. As others have said, we've sleepwalked into the issue with our midfield to an extent by failing to replace/upgrade the likes of Milner, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Keita. But one or two more signings don't for me sort all of this out. This is a collective burnout, mental and physical, which probably meant that a real dip in performances this season was almost unavoidable. The worry is just how big this dip proves to be, and the long term implications of a possible failure to secure a CL place for next season.

I think if we see a major upturn in form after the World Cup, then that is perhaps further evidence to support this. We aren't sending a great deal to the cup compared to our rivals.

[JackWard33]

- Preseason. Players have gone on record as saying it was one of the most intense they've done, and we've lost various players to injury (which is undoubtedly in conjunction with the above).

Would be great if Linders or Klopp were asked about this - it seems an incredibly strange decision to opt for an intense preseason given the restricted time and calendar and obviously the unprecedented work load of the previous season. Looks like a horrible mistake at this point

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

Would be great if Linders or Klopp were asked about this - it seems an incredibly strange decision to opt for an intense preseason given the restricted time and calendar and obviously the unprecedented work load of the previous season. Looks like a horrible mistake at this point

We played something like 7 games, compared to City's 3 which is mental.

[Dim Glas]

Would be great if Linders or Klopp were asked about this - it seems an incredibly strange decision to opt for an intense preseason given the restricted time and calendar and obviously the unprecedented work load of the previous season. Looks like a horrible mistake at this point

which would be all the more baffling, as Klopp has said over and over that they (coaches) always listen to the sports scientists / medical people, they always take advice from those with the backgrounds they don’t have. So if they got the get-go, who’s giving the green light for it. There seems to have been a few ins and outs with the medical staff over the last couple years too I think? Maybe some friction about stuff going on (and yes, speculating!).

[kcbworth]

They lucked out with Klopp.  His genius covered transfer net spend stinginess.

Strange that their successful recruitment of Klopp which should be lauded is used a stick to beat them with

[markmywords]

Strange that their successful recruitment of Klopp which should be lauded is used a stick to beat them with

FSG are like a striker that scores a spectacular goal in the 1st minute, then spends the rest of the games getting caught offside and  failing to hold the ball up, before getting sent off for violent conduct against his own team mate

[Coolie High]

Strange that their successful recruitment of Klopp which should be lauded is used a stick to beat them with

Mate Klopp was the obvious choice you’d had to be a fool not to go for him when he was available.

[newterp]

Mate Klopp was the obvious choice you’d had to be a fool not to go for him when he was available.

Ancelotti was also a choice.

[Coolie High]

Ancelotti was also a choice.

Two good choices but Klopp was most people’s favourite even on here, had more experience making teams actually punch above their weight.

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

Two good choices but Klopp was most people’s favourite even on here, had more experience making teams actually punch above their weight.

And by the guy who wrote Klopp's biography, in the book it is mentioned that the main reason they went for Klopp is that he said the squad would need minor tweaks to go for top four whereas Ancelotti at the time (straight after being let go by Real Madrid) wanted a complete overhaul of the squad which FSG were not willing to do.

The third choice was Frank de Boer.

[RideTheWalrus]

Strange that their successful recruitment of Klopp which should be lauded is used a stick to beat them with

They've not been all bad, but the choice was between Ancelotti and Klopp. Ancelotti would have been better in the short term, Klopp in the long term, and considering that has always been FSG's favourite line 'long term success' etc, it was an obvious choice for them, and honestly don't know a single person who would have rather Ancelotti.

It was an obvious decision.

FSG couldn't lose, really, because after what H&G did, they will always have defenders. Super league, Ticket prices, furlough, lack of investment & transparency etc.

We'll win a lot of net spend trophies, that's for sure

[TwitterJayy]

Get to January in top 4 and still in the cups will do me.
FSG have to invest and not let this season go to waste.
Still pissed off they sabotaged our season in 2021… criminal how they got away with that, we was top of the league with no center backs in January and they penny pinched again

[TwitterJayy]

Two good choices but Klopp was most people’s favourite even on here, had more experience making teams actually punch above their weight.

Klopp was eyed up even before Rodger’s was sacked. Always remember dortmund beating Bayern in the semi finals of there cup and we all knew he was going to be our next manager

[liverbloke]

there are gonna be some seasons where we're going for every trophy

there are gonna be some seasons where we win nowt - same for the best teams throughout our history

by all means it causes debate because we care - but the season ain't over 'yet'

got to keep behind the club

[killer-heels]

Its going to be exciting seeing Klopp build another new side. I think he will find it as exciting as well and probably the challenge he needs. The guy may be loyal but he is a people person and in the past about it not being exciting signing players he already knows.

[GreatEx]

FSG are like a striker that scores a spectacular goal in the 1st minute, then spends the rest of the games getting caught offside and  failing to hold the ball up, before getting sent off for violent conduct against his own team mate

I disagree with the comparison, but it gave me a good laugh

[James...]

Its going to be exciting seeing Klopp build another new side. I think he will find it as exciting as well and probably the challenge he needs. The guy may be loyal but he is a people person and in the past about it not being exciting signing players he already knows.

Is it? Don't see what's exciting about getting to the top of the game only to then need to spend another 2 seasons of the best manager we'll ever have's final 3 seasons building a brand new team and in transition.

If he had been backed properly we'd have had another 4 years of being a proper title contender. Instead this season the title is gone and it will take a miracle to challenge next season - which he is capable of pulling out his arse - because we'll presumably be trying to bed in 3 or 4 players. And it won't be 3 or 4 ready made plug and play world class players either because that's not what FSG will provide him with. It will be younger players he'll need to develop.

[keyop]

Stuck this in the Klopp Template thread but seems equally applicable here. To me it seems like a failing on all fronts which has combined to really kick us:
- Last season. On the back of several long, intense seasons which took a lot out of the players, we had the longest season possible, the culmination of which was hugely physically and mentally draining.
- The WC. This pushed the start of the season back so the players barely got any time off, all the more significant after the season we've had. We've also had to fit all our PL and CL games into a reduced timeframe with no let up at all.
- Preseason. Players have gone on record as saying it was one of the most intense they've done, and we've lost various players to injury (which is undoubtedly in conjunction with the above).
- Recruitment. Few were calling for more defenders or forwards this summer after Nunez came in. But midfield has been a quagmire of an issue. Coming into the season with our first choice players the wrong side of 30 (and Thiago with various injury issues), Fabinho's form dipping, Jones and Elliot still relatively inexperienced, Keita a seemingly endless enigma of form and fitness, and Ox crocked and plainly on the wane, everyone wanted a new midfielder. But we didn't sign one.
- Performances. Again it's linked to the above, but some of the individual performances from players simply haven't been good enough, particularly given the consistent quality we'd seen in previous years. Trent, Robbo, Virgil, Fabinho, Mo all wobbling badly. And so much expected from Nunez given the fanfare and the price tag.

So there's no one quick fix that would have solved everything, frankly. As others have said, we've sleepwalked into the issue with our midfield to an extent by failing to replace/upgrade the likes of Milner, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Keita. But one or two more signings don't for me sort all of this out. This is a collective burnout, mental and physical, which probably meant that a real dip in performances this season was almost unavoidable. The worry is just how big this dip proves to be, and the long term implications of a possible failure to secure a CL place for next season.

That's a great summary JK, and highlights just how many factors are actually at play here, and the domino effect its had.

Our bench was often threadbare during August/September, which meant players were being played out of necessity, regardless of form or fitness. It also meant we had little options to impact the game if changes were needed.

I understand the club has commercial obligations (and fans had bought tickets), but I wonder if we should've acted to reduce/postpone the pre season tour once we knew we'd be going deep in all competitions? It was clear as early as March we were going all in for the quadruple , which was a physical and mental marathon of herculean proportions that no club has ever managed.

Surely the 63 games we played also meant that an intense pre season was unwise, and that rest/recovery was vital to prevent muscle injuries.

One small mercy is the WC where we only have a few players likely to get much game time. But that's what makes the preseason, injuries and our stuttering start so frustrating, as this season was an ideal leveller with City having about 14 players likely to be slogging it out in the desert for 6 weeks.

Hopefully we can get a reinforcement or two in January, but as you say - no players would've miraculously made Virgil, Robbo, Trent, Fabinho, Henderson and Mo back to their best overnight. Nunez's slow start and Melo's signing/injury would've been minor footnotes had half our team not seemingly forgotten how to do the basics consistently.

I still maintain hope we can turn this around into a decent season with a trophy, top 4, and some form/momentum to carry into next season. Onwards and upwards.

[ScubaSteve]

there are gonna be some seasons where we're going for every trophy

there are gonna be some seasons where we win nowt - same for the best teams throughout our history

by all means it causes debate because we care - but the season ain't over 'yet'

got to keep behind the club

Yeah I’m in agreement here. The title has been long gone but we can still win a trophy. Use the league as experimentation and to rest players and go for the CL. We can still get top 4 coz this league is poor

[killer-heels]

Is it? Don't see what's exciting about getting to the top of the game only to then need to spend another 2 seasons of the best manager we'll ever have's final 3 seasons building a brand new team and in transition.

If he had been backed properly we'd have had another 4 years of being a proper title contender. Instead this season the title is gone and it will take a miracle to challenge next season - which he is capable of pulling out his arse - because we'll presumably be trying to bed in 3 or 4 players. And it won't be 3 or 4 ready made plug and play world class players either because that's not what FSG will provide him with. It will be younger players he'll need to develop.

This side was always going to need changing an the idea that the transition would be seamless is kidding themselves. Not every transfer is a success and can set you back.

Also I dont see why we need to be rock bottom. We have some amazing footballers and they are not all old.

[James...]

This side was always going to need changing an the idea that the transition would be seamless is kidding themselves. Not every transfer is a success and can set you back.

Also I dont see why we need to be rock bottom. We have some amazing footballers and they are not all old.

Right… and there is a difference between seamless transition and what we’re going to have to do. Real Madrid had Casemiro/Kroos/Modric being the best in the world for years and already before those 3 are done have Tchouameni/Camavinga/Valverde waiting to take over. It’s absolutely possible to get as close as you can to seamless and we didn’t even try. If we’re as well run as claimed an attempt at seamless transition is exactly what should have been happening so we didn’t get in to this position where so much needs doing all at once.

And we do have some amazing footballers, but who are the best ones now? The ones the success was built on the back of? Mo Salah and Virgil Van Dijk. Both in their 30s. Both showing signs of decline. Our younger ‘stars’ have yet to establish themselves in ‘worlds best’ conversations the way the likes of Mo and Virg had. So having to integrate more newer potential stars before the current newer stars have finished establishing themselves as bonafide nailed on world elite isn’t ideal really. I still feel like we’re waiting to see whether Diaz is Jota level for example or if he can make the jump to peak Salah/Mane level.

It’s just frustrating. I enjoyed the journey between 2016-2018 of Klopp building a great side. The frustration now is he did that. He climbed that mountain. He shouldn’t have been pushed off it by his own bosses and told ok now climb it again.

[T.Mills]

This side was always going to need changing an the idea that the transition would be seamless is kidding themselves. Not every transfer is a success and can set you back.

Also I dont see why we need to be rock bottom. We have some amazing footballers and they are not all old.

We haven't really changed anything, so how can it be a transition season? If we was bedding a few new players in i think the majority of us would be understanding of this shit show.

[killer-heels]

We haven't really changed anything, so how can it be a transition season? If we was bedding a few new players in i think the majority of us would be understanding of this shit show.

I am not saying its a transition season. Next season will have to be the transition season. This is the ‘probably-one-season-too-far’ season.

[killer-heels]

Right… and there is a difference between seamless transition and what we’re going to have to do. Real Madrid had Casemiro/Kroos/Modric being the best in the world for years and already before those 3 are done have Tchouameni/Camavinga/Valverde waiting to take over. It’s absolutely possible to get as close as you can to seamless and we didn’t even try. If we’re as well run as claimed an attempt at seamless transition is exactly what should have been happening so we didn’t get in to this position where so much needs doing all at once.

And we do have some amazing footballers, but who are the best ones now? The ones the success was built on the back of? Mo Salah and Virgil Van Dijk. Both in their 30s. Both showing signs of decline. Our younger ‘stars’ have yet to establish themselves in ‘worlds best’ conversations the way the likes of Mo and Virg had. So having to integrate more newer potential stars before the current newer stars have finished establishing themselves as bonafide nailed on world elite isn’t ideal really. I still feel like we’re waiting to see whether Diaz is Jota level for example or if he can make the jump to peak Salah/Mane level.

It’s just frustrating. I enjoyed the journey between 2016-2018 of Klopp building a great side. The frustration now is he did that. He climbed that mountain. He shouldn’t have been pushed off it by his own bosses and told ok now climb it again.

Alisson is still a good age for a keeper, Trent, Konate, Jota, Diaz are all top players and thats without factoring the likes of Gomez who have been a part of this success, Nunez who is a new signing. You cant write off players like Virgil, Mo and Robertson either, not yet.

There are a lot of players there who still walk into Arsenal, Spurs’ sides. Lets not go overboard, we still have some good players. We definitely have shit the bed with transfers, but we can get it back.

[Crosby Nick]

Alisson is still a good age for a keeper, Trent, Konate, Jota, Diaz are all top players and thats without factoring the likes of Gomez who have been a part of this success, Nunez who is a new signing. You cant write off players like Virgil, Mo and Robertson either, not yet.

There are a lot of players there who still walk into Arsenal, Spurs’ sides. Lets not go overboard, we still have some good players. We definitely have shit the bed with transfers, but we can get it back.

I agree. Some of those 30 (or approaching it) are absolutely fine. We don’t need to throw the baby out with the bathwater (not sure I’ve ever used that expression before!).

[killer-heels]

I agree. Some of those 30 (or approaching it) are absolutely fine. We don’t need to throw the baby out with the bathwater (not sure I’ve ever used that expression before!).

On the flip side I think Fabinho has run his race at the grand old age of 28!

[James...]

Alisson is still a good age for a keeper, Trent, Konate, Jota, Diaz are all top players and thats without factoring the likes of Gomez who have been a part of this success, Nunez who is a new signing. You cant write off players like Virgil, Mo and Robertson either, not yet.

There are a lot of players there who still walk into Arsenal, Spurs’ sides. Lets not go overboard, we still have some good players. We definitely have shit the bed with transfers, but we can get it back.

There is a difference between world elite and Jota level players.

Players like Jota absolutely have a HUGE role to play because at top clubs that’s exactly what you need. Genuinely brilliant depth. But we have saw what true world class forwards look like. The kind that win you the biggest biggest trophies. That’s what Salah and Mane were at their best. And it feels like we don’t have that right now. That’s what i’m waiting to see from Diaz. Does he have that jump in him. Trent and Konate i’m relaxed on because I’ve saw Trent be the best RB in the world. He can get back there. Konate has all the tools to be elite.

But again, this is the issue now. We need these players like Konate and Diaz to take that step up whilst the players who were at that top tier table - Virg and Mo - are on the decline. We should have been easing these players in whilst those 2 were still at their best. Diaz should have been eased in. Instead he’s basically our go to player up top these days and he is still developing and isn’t at that peak Mo/Mane level yet.

I think we can get back to being title contenders. It’s just frustrating to watch it be such a difficult challenge when we were already there and solid investment and squad planning would have kept us there.

[kcbworth]

Real Madrid ... have Tchouameni/Camavinga/Valverde waiting to take over.

Our younger ‘stars’ have yet to establish themselves in ‘worlds best’ conversations the way the likes of Mo and Virg hadit again.

Have the RM players you are mentioning either? Anymore than Diaz/Nunez/Konate?

[killer-heels]

There is a difference between world elite and Jota level players.

Players like Jota absolutely have a HUGE role to play because at top clubs that’s exactly what you need. Genuinely brilliant depth. But we have saw what true world class forwards look like. The kind that win you the biggest biggest trophies. That’s what Salah and Mane were at their best. And it feels like we don’t have that right now. That’s what i’m waiting to see from Diaz. Does he have that jump in him. Trent and Konate i’m relaxed on because I’ve saw Trent be the best RB in the world. He can get back there. Konate has all the tools to be elite.

But again, this is the issue now. We need these players like Konate and Diaz to take that step up whilst the players who were at that top tier table - Virg and Mo - are on the decline. We should have been easing these players in whilst those 2 were still at their best. Diaz should have been eased in. Instead he’s basically our go to player up top these days and he is still developing and isn’t at that peak Mo/Mane level yet.

I think we can get back to being title contenders. It’s just frustrating to watch it be such a difficult challenge when we were already there and solid investment and squad planning would have kept us there.

Which of the Arsenal or Spurs players are on their way to being world class?