Poll

What are your views on Kier Starmer's leadership of the Labour party to date?

Excellent
5 (1.9%)
Good
33 (12.7%)
Average
88 (34%)
Poor
46 (17.8%)
Awful
69 (26.6%)
Too early to say
18 (6.9%)

Total Members Voted: 259

Author Topic: Keir Starmer: your views?  (Read 94078 times)

Online Yorkykopite

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1320 on: September 30, 2021, 10:53:57 pm »
Because they are Jew haters? Pretending to support Palestinians gives them a fig leaf for a bit of good old fashioned Jew baiting.

That's true. There is a long tradition of left-wing anti-semitism. It wasn't polite to mention this for many years. It also lay dormant for a long time - roughly from 1933 to 1967. But the strain has always been there and can be traced back to bits of Karl Marx's writings.

The Israel-Palestine conflict has certainly afforded an opportunity for these left-wing anti-semites to show themselves. Many obviously latch on to the Palestinian cause because they detest Jews. The Labour party became a fairly hospitable place for these demented souls during the Corbyn years.

Fortunately most people on the Left genuinely hate and fear anti-semitism (as well they should). And the idea of Palestine is strong enough to survive the Jew-haters who rally to its flag.   
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1321 on: September 30, 2021, 11:02:04 pm »
I think it will be next time. Combination of rule changes and additional provisos (must have a female candidate). Those wishing Starmer gone should hold off on it though, Yvette Cooper is where the membership is at right now.

It was in jest that. The labour leader needs to be someone who can win an election.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1322 on: September 30, 2021, 11:04:46 pm »
Is this the case that Bastani tweeted this about?

https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1443613585968705549


About time anyone stop listening to that awful grifter.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1323 on: September 30, 2021, 11:06:25 pm »
Burnham will be the next leader as it stands.

IMHO

Almost certainly. Would imagine him replacing a north west MP who stands down around the next election. He’ll then either be a shoe-in for the next leader or, in the dream scenario, Home Sec in a shock Labour government.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1324 on: September 30, 2021, 11:06:50 pm »
The Labour leader should be a woman.

The labour leader should be a vegan

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1325 on: September 30, 2021, 11:11:29 pm »
It was in jest that. The labour leader needs to be someone who can win an election.

Sorry KH, went well over my head that, as you saw. It's an actual serious discussion within the groups I'm in.
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1326 on: September 30, 2021, 11:14:12 pm »
Almost certainly. Would imagine him replacing a north west MP who stands down around the next election. He’ll then either be a shoe-in for the next leader or, in the dream scenario, Home Sec in a shock Labour government.

Not sure. He's relying on nominations from the Campaign Group and he looks really, really bad for flirting with them during conference, not a few locally have commented on how the GMP could use just a bit more of his free time if he's time spare to play prince over the water. I'd wonder he'd get c.50 nominations to make the ballot after the next election, although if Labour bomb then who knows?
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1327 on: September 30, 2021, 11:22:12 pm »
Is this the case that Bastani tweeted this about?

https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1443613585968705549

God some of the replies and hashtags, calling Starmer the leader of Apartheid Israel. What the fuck is wrong with these people?

On another note, the Mail is worried that Starmer is a serious politician.
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1328 on: September 30, 2021, 11:22:36 pm »
Can't we just stick with Starmer.
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1329 on: September 30, 2021, 11:47:06 pm »

Oh, do fuck off

Totally uncalled for, but unsurprising. You are one angry man.
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1330 on: September 30, 2021, 11:49:08 pm »
God some of the replies and hashtags, calling Starmer the leader of Apartheid Israel. What the fuck is wrong with these people?

On another note, the Mail is worried that Starmer is a serious politician.


Among the replies to Bastani's tweet.

Quote
George Galloway
@georgegalloway
·
5h
Replying to
@AaronBastani
In another era they would’ve been shot
Quote
Ronald Bryant #PLM #BDS #Canvass4Corbyn
@RonaldB84959738
·
1h
When George says it as it is, it's because it's the truth! And all backed by history.  Bloody love our brilliant GG
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http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1331 on: September 30, 2021, 11:54:08 pm »
This is a well-written and illuminating look at the Labour conference fringe. By Tanya Gold

Richard Burgon MP, who depends on repetition for all his oratory, and manages to sound both stupid and convinced, shouts: “The Labour left is alive! The Labour left is winning on the Conference floor! The Labour left is winning in the streets, and it will one day win a leadership election!” Lloyd Russell-Moyle MP makes the mistake of calling Starmer, “a nice man”. There are jeers: “Keir Out!” Then: “Keith, Keith, Keith!” It sounds quite chilling when they shout it in unison; I have never been afraid anywhere as a journalist except with the far-Left. Again, they must not leave: “When the phoenix rises again,” says Russell-Moyle, “we will be here, and we will win the General Election.” But they won’t – not by screaming, “Keith” in circus tents. Do they know that? They go back to shouting, “Keith! Keith! Keith!” which I believe is the real purpose of this rally. I do not know why they think this taunt is so deadly, but it does expose their classism and ageism: taunting the lower-middle class Boomer who really is called Keith.

Starmer’s strategy is to ignore them, while taunting them with policy: during his speech to Conference — calm, appropriate, and thrillingly Blairite — he speaks through them. Still, they heckle and hold red cards up — it’s a football metaphor, which they planned: Show Starmer the Red Card. Except they aren’t the referee, not this time. They shout, “It was your fault!” during a Brexit section and “£15 an hour!” — which is the minimum wage they seek. One holds up a sign that says, “No purge”. Another shouts, “Free Julian Assange,” as if Starmer has Assange in his possession, and can hand him over. Mostly they seem confused: when another shouts, “Where is Peter Mandelson?” he sounds as if he genuinely wants to know.

Then — calmly, appropriately, thrillingly – Starmer says words to give them pain, all of which are a warm bath to the Red Wall voters Corbyn lost: police; patriots: NATO; patriots; NATO; police. I wished he had kissed a model of a nuclear submarine; or put a judge’s black cap on his head; or toasted The Queen.

The far-Left hated it. But the far-Left has lost. When it recovers, perhaps it will come to love it. Because the struggle is everything, and the struggle lives on.



Plenty more here, including Corbyn speaking into his best friend, the megaphone. Good stuff.

https://unherd.com/2021/09/corbyn-still-haunts-labour/
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1332 on: October 1, 2021, 12:29:11 am »
This is a well-written and illuminating look at the Labour conference fringe. By Tanya Gold

Richard Burgon MP, who depends on repetition for all his oratory, and manages to sound both stupid and convinced, shouts: “The Labour left is alive! The Labour left is winning on the Conference floor! The Labour left is winning in the streets, and it will one day win a leadership election!” Lloyd Russell-Moyle MP makes the mistake of calling Starmer, “a nice man”. There are jeers: “Keir Out!” Then: “Keith, Keith, Keith!” It sounds quite chilling when they shout it in unison; I have never been afraid anywhere as a journalist except with the far-Left. Again, they must not leave: “When the phoenix rises again,” says Russell-Moyle, “we will be here, and we will win the General Election.” But they won’t – not by screaming, “Keith” in circus tents. Do they know that? They go back to shouting, “Keith! Keith! Keith!” which I believe is the real purpose of this rally. I do not know why they think this taunt is so deadly, but it does expose their classism and ageism: taunting the lower-middle class Boomer who really is called Keith.

Starmer’s strategy is to ignore them, while taunting them with policy: during his speech to Conference — calm, appropriate, and thrillingly Blairite — he speaks through them. Still, they heckle and hold red cards up — it’s a football metaphor, which they planned: Show Starmer the Red Card. Except they aren’t the referee, not this time. They shout, “It was your fault!” during a Brexit section and “£15 an hour!” — which is the minimum wage they seek. One holds up a sign that says, “No purge”. Another shouts, “Free Julian Assange,” as if Starmer has Assange in his possession, and can hand him over. Mostly they seem confused: when another shouts, “Where is Peter Mandelson?” he sounds as if he genuinely wants to know.

Then — calmly, appropriately, thrillingly – Starmer says words to give them pain, all of which are a warm bath to the Red Wall voters Corbyn lost: police; patriots: NATO; patriots; NATO; police. I wished he had kissed a model of a nuclear submarine; or put a judge’s black cap on his head; or toasted The Queen.

The far-Left hated it. But the far-Left has lost. When it recovers, perhaps it will come to love it. Because the struggle is everything, and the struggle lives on.



Plenty more here, including Corbyn speaking into his best friend, the megaphone. Good stuff.

https://unherd.com/2021/09/corbyn-still-haunts-labour/
:)
Somethings going on between Piers and Jeremy.
Think he may have tried to bum a few bob off him now he's skint and Jeremy gave him the elbow so he's hustling him.
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1333 on: October 1, 2021, 07:30:41 am »


Well. No. The whole point of stuff like TV and Film is that you invest yourselves in these characters. Or you don't. In the case of Doctor Who and James Bond - these series have been running for over 50 years.

If you are into stuff then canon matters. Obviously if you don't give a shiny shite then it doesn't.

I'm sure that there are things that you are invested in - shite bands, shite TV shows or shite bollocks no one else gives a fuck about - but that's your choice, You only have to look at how heated some dickheads get about something as trivial as music to see that.
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1334 on: October 1, 2021, 07:44:49 am »
This is a well-written and illuminating look at the Labour conference fringe. By Tanya Gold

Richard Burgon MP, who depends on repetition for all his oratory, and manages to sound both stupid and convinced, shouts: “The Labour left is alive! The Labour left is winning on the Conference floor! The Labour left is winning in the streets, and it will one day win a leadership election!” Lloyd Russell-Moyle MP makes the mistake of calling Starmer, “a nice man”. There are jeers: “Keir Out!” Then: “Keith, Keith, Keith!” It sounds quite chilling when they shout it in unison; I have never been afraid anywhere as a journalist except with the far-Left. Again, they must not leave: “When the phoenix rises again,” says Russell-Moyle, “we will be here, and we will win the General Election.” But they won’t – not by screaming, “Keith” in circus tents. Do they know that? They go back to shouting, “Keith! Keith! Keith!” which I believe is the real purpose of this rally. I do not know why they think this taunt is so deadly, but it does expose their classism and ageism: taunting the lower-middle class Boomer who really is called Keith.

Starmer’s strategy is to ignore them, while taunting them with policy: during his speech to Conference — calm, appropriate, and thrillingly Blairite — he speaks through them. Still, they heckle and hold red cards up — it’s a football metaphor, which they planned: Show Starmer the Red Card. Except they aren’t the referee, not this time. They shout, “It was your fault!” during a Brexit section and “£15 an hour!” — which is the minimum wage they seek. One holds up a sign that says, “No purge”. Another shouts, “Free Julian Assange,” as if Starmer has Assange in his possession, and can hand him over. Mostly they seem confused: when another shouts, “Where is Peter Mandelson?” he sounds as if he genuinely wants to know.

Then — calmly, appropriately, thrillingly – Starmer says words to give them pain, all of which are a warm bath to the Red Wall voters Corbyn lost: police; patriots: NATO; patriots; NATO; police. I wished he had kissed a model of a nuclear submarine; or put a judge’s black cap on his head; or toasted The Queen.

The far-Left hated it. But the far-Left has lost. When it recovers, perhaps it will come to love it. Because the struggle is everything, and the struggle lives on.



Plenty more here, including Corbyn speaking into his best friend, the megaphone. Good stuff.

https://unherd.com/2021/09/corbyn-still-haunts-labour/

It was actually Piers that was mentioned, not Jeremy
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1335 on: October 1, 2021, 10:44:57 am »
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1336 on: October 1, 2021, 11:19:48 am »
It was actually Piers that was mentioned, not Jeremy

The megaphone bit was Piers, you're right.
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1337 on: October 1, 2021, 11:41:00 am »
It was actually Piers that was mentioned, not Jeremy

You're right. I actually have great difficulty in thinking of them as two different people. I'm sure that is massively unfair......On which one I don't know.
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1338 on: October 1, 2021, 11:57:49 am »
You're right. I actually have great difficulty in thinking of them as two different people. I'm sure that is massively unfair......On which one I don't know.
On the anti vax antisemitic one I imagine…
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1339 on: October 1, 2021, 12:54:37 pm »
On the anti vax antisemitic one I imagine…

Is that the climate change denying one as well?

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1340 on: October 1, 2021, 05:29:26 pm »
Is that the climate change denying one as well?
Sorry, didn’t narrow the options enough ;D
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1341 on: October 1, 2021, 05:45:22 pm »

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1342 on: October 1, 2021, 06:30:05 pm »
And he who hijacks the Sarah everard trial

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/piers-corbyn-exploits-everard-trial-to-protest-covid-laws-outside-court-293121/

In another universe that might have been the Prime Minister's brother!
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1343 on: October 1, 2021, 08:15:18 pm »
Were the crank left moon howlers aware of just how preposterous they looked ranting away in their circus tent clown show the other night? Support for antisemites and extremists, barracking the leader, topped off by the Jezziah (architect of an 80 seat Tory majority) assuring his adoring disciples "we will win", as if he fucking knows anything about that. Burgon, Sultana, Begum, Moyle - just utterly ridiculous idiots who should have the whip removed.
DAMMIT!

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1344 on: October 2, 2021, 12:05:47 am »
you can feel the anger as you typed this, fuckin hell mate, get a grip.

Except s/he seems to be right, some pretty appalling people seem to be falling out of labour, anti-irish, jewish and others, massively needs to be corrected. Plus Hoey needs to be put down.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1345 on: October 2, 2021, 07:15:46 am »
The part I really don't understand, and possibly why I've never understood their politics, is the refusal to take the offer of many of the policies they say they wanted to instead chase after the support/'solidarity' of people who should be nowhere near a political party seeking to win elections. One old hand said to me it's like going to a demo about the closure of a local school and thinking everyone there agrees with you about everything and proceeding in your politics on that basis. Some of the MPs should perhaps be grateful for the rule changes with direction membership is taking.

I suppose though that this is just a resolution of a seeming paradox in what Starmer was saying while running for leader. Nandy was more explicit about it. That it can also be used to demonstrate to a wider audience that the party is changing makes it fairly cost free - "why don't you unite us?" is only an honest shout when you've not spent 18 months demonstrating you want anything but. Other part of that is Miliband used New Labour as his contrast, and trashed them to do it, and Starmer is picking up on the achievements to begin the slow building of a case that Labour in government can do good things. I can understand Starmer wanting to shift the message to looking forward, optimism, and successes and winning elections. It's kind of important for Labour not to be constantly having a pity party about its failure to win, and not falling into the trap of blaming the electorate. At the same time, the internal stuff will continue to be noisy because establishing boundaries (and this doesn't just go for the hard left - if you're turning up to chat with eg Linnehan then you've questions about your judgement to answer too) is going to be important as part of demonstrating that things won't return to where they had fallen to.
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1346 on: October 2, 2021, 04:49:31 pm »
Clive Lewis MP was on the Oh God What Now podcast yesterday, He said he couldn't think of a suitable female future leadership candidate!
Er..... Yvette Cooper?

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1347 on: October 2, 2021, 09:52:51 pm »
I see he has an article in the rag tomorrow morning.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1348 on: October 2, 2021, 11:00:17 pm »
I see he has an article in the rag tomorrow morning.

Of course he does.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1349 on: October 2, 2021, 11:26:49 pm »
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1350 on: October 2, 2021, 11:45:39 pm »
Meaning?

It means whatever you take it to mean.

I think the bloke’s a massively out of date, vanilla, wanker stuck in the 1990s, and this furthers that opinion. You?

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1351 on: October 2, 2021, 11:53:20 pm »
It means whatever you take it to mean.

I think the bloke’s a massively out of date, vanilla, wanker stuck in the 1990s, and this furthers that opinion. You?

Would you rather Labour politicians not write in the scum? What do you think of politicians who read it?
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http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline bornandbRED

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1352 on: October 3, 2021, 12:12:33 am »
Would you rather Labour politicians not write in the scum? What do you think of politicians who read it?

1) I don’t support any mainstream political party, so I have no preference. Though as an outside observer of the Labour Party, I must say I’m torn between hilarity and confusion considering this paper is deemed untouchable by the vast majority of the party membership and is literally banned in one of the party’s few remaining strongholds. What’s next - dinner evening at the Britain First AGM?

2) I sincerely hope no politician gets their views from a paper that is designed to mislead, deceive and indulges in the practices that paper has (although wouldn’t be surprised). What do I think of a politician who might? I’m sure you can guess, although I’m struggling to see how that’s a relevant question here. That paper is for bellends is an easier response.

What about you? Do you want Labour MPs writing in the sun?


Offline Sangria

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1353 on: October 3, 2021, 12:17:19 am »
1) I don’t support any mainstream political party, so I have no preference. Though as an outside observer of the Labour Party, I must say I’m torn between hilarity and confusion considering this paper is deemed untouchable by the vast majority of the party membership and is literally banned in one of the party’s few remaining strongholds. What’s next - dinner evening at the Britain First AGM?

2) I sincerely hope no politician gets their views from a paper that is designed to mislead, deceive and indulges in the practices that paper has (although wouldn’t be surprised). What do I think of a politician who might? I’m sure you can guess, although I’m struggling to see how that’s a relevant question here. That paper is for bellends is an easier response.

What about you? Do you want Labour MPs writing in the sun?

I begrudge it, but I recognise that left wing politicians have to reach out to non-left winger voters in order to get the Tories out. I don't like it, but I accept it.

I ask about politicians reading the paper, as opposed to writing in it, because the latter has to be done to try and persuade people, whereas the former is done out of choice.


"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1354 on: October 3, 2021, 12:19:40 am »
yeah but that's Saint Jeremy, he's above criticism from his cult.
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Offline bornandbRED

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1355 on: October 3, 2021, 12:35:40 am »
I begrudge it, but I recognise that left wing politicians have to reach out to non-left winger voters in order to get the Tories out. I don't like it, but I accept it.

I ask about politicians reading the paper, as opposed to writing in it, because the latter has to be done to try and persuade people, whereas the former is done out of choice.



 
I acknowledge you’ve been hovering over the send button for about ten minutes there, a shame as Corbyn is utterly irrelevant in this conversation (my bellendry point applies to all and any MP including Corbyn, who I do not give two farts about) - what point are you attempting to make there? Odd whataboutery.

Now let’s stay on topic:

Quote from: Sangria link=topic=348915.msg17977796#msg17977796 date= I ask about politicians reading the paper, as opposed to writing in it, because[b
[/b] the latter has to be done to try and persuade people, whereas the former is done out of choice.

He absolutely, definitively, definitely does not have to. This is clearly disingenuous - it’s tantamount to suggesting Liverpool fans should start buying it to prove they did nothing wrong at Hillsborough. Or Nigel Frottage should start attending the Durham Miners Gala and editing the Mirror.

In fact, two of the last three election winners (Cameron and May) did not write direct addresses in this paper.








Offline Zeb

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1356 on: October 3, 2021, 12:36:52 am »
It's done because there's few other ways to reach the audience that rag has. Could whatabout the media appearances of various politicians but it's not really comparable. Some things are done because there's little alternative, not because people enjoy it. Someone on here once said that no-one with a life watches PMQs, and it's true - politics outside elections is for obsessives. This is the logical endpoint for those not boycotting the rag, of trying to reach non-graduate working age people who have barely a passing look at politics. The other way to do it is microtargetting on Facebook, and that's happening too. It's shit but there's a reason for it.
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Offline Sangria

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1357 on: October 3, 2021, 12:41:33 am »

I acknowledge you’ve been hovering over the send button for about ten minutes there, a shame as Corbyn is utterly irrelevant in this conversation (my bellendry point applies to all and any MP including Corbyn, who I do not give two farts about) - what point are you attempting to make there? Odd whataboutery.

Now let’s stay on topic:

He absolutely, definitively, definitely does not have to. This is clearly disingenuous - it’s tantamount to suggesting Liverpool fans should start buying it to prove they did nothing wrong at Hillsborough. Or Nigel Frottage should start attending the Durham Miners Gala and editing the Mirror.

In fact, two of the last three election winners (Cameron and May) did not write direct addresses in this paper.

I said: "left wing politicians have to reach out to non-left winger voters in order to get the Tories out".

You said: "In fact, two of the last three election winners (Cameron and May) did not write direct addresses in this paper".

AFAIK, Cameron and May are Tories. Scum readers tend to vote Tory. Tory leaders don't need to write in the scum to get their readers to vote Tory. The status quo is that scum readers vote Tory. Unless you persuade them otherwise. Since you have no interest in changing this status quo, you don't want Labour politicians to try and persuade them.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline bornandbRED

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1358 on: October 3, 2021, 12:56:54 am »
It's done because there's few other ways to reach the audience that rag has. Could whatabout the media appearances of various politicians but it's not really comparable. Some things are done because there's little alternative, not because people enjoy it. Someone on here once said that no-one with a life watches PMQs, and it's true - politics outside elections is for obsessives. This is the logical endpoint for those not boycotting the rag, of trying to reach non-graduate working age people who have barely a passing look at politics. The other way to do it is microtargetting on Facebook, and that's happening too. It's shit but there's a reason for it.

I’ll concede that the rag has a presence in the U.K, but its readership has in fact fallen drastically and it’s now the 7th most read newspaper according to yougov.

It’s nowhere near the behemoth you’re suggesting, and it’s absolute child’s play compared to social media.

And even if it was/is deemed so important, there are many alternative methods of delivery than having your face plastered all over the rag on a Sunday morning. Many years before an election.

I said: "left wing politicians have to reach out to non-left winger voters in order to get the Tories out".

You said: "In fact, two of the last three election winners (Cameron and May) did not write direct addresses in this paper".

AFAIK, Cameron and May are Tories. Scum readers tend to vote Tory. Tory leaders don't need to write in the scum to get their readers to vote Tory. The status quo is that scum readers vote Tory. Unless you persuade them otherwise. Since you have no interest in changing this status quo, you don't want Labour politicians to try and persuade them.

Can you detail why you thought bringing Corbyn into this convo had any relevance? Would genuinely like to know the logic behind that.

Reports are Corbyn just farted in his sleep. Shit, must mean we’re going to lose to City. Am I doing it right?

You said writing in the s*n has to be done to persuade people - but I’ll reiterate two of the last election winners didn’t (although the paper supported them in the election - this can be achieved without writing direct addresses).

My point is simple really: there are sufficient alternative methods other than this, which you know is flirting with the anthesis of your party. I can completely empathise with the many who feel this is a dig in the ribs.   







Offline Zeb

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1359 on: October 3, 2021, 01:03:36 am »
I’ll concede that the rag has a presence in the U.K, but its readership has in fact fallen drastically and it’s now the 7th most read newspaper according to yougov.

It’s nowhere near the behemoth you’re suggesting, and it’s absolute child’s play compared to social media.

And even if it was/is deemed so important, there are many alternative methods of delivery than having your face plastered all over the rag on a Sunday morning. Many years before an election.

It's who reads it, and the size is still important enough. One day it won't be and I'll celebrate it going the way of Murdoch's original Sunday rag. You can argue it any way you please on when to introduce yourself to parts of the electorate who probably wouldn't recognise a picture of you but earlier is probably better if you're trying to attract people's attention to the government fucking things up as you're writing something. There's a really interesting study though which looks at the boycott in Liverpool and Merseyside and argues very persuasively that it's not only the boycott which alters attitudes but also when the rag (and other parts of the press) get a free run to push a political policy without anyone arguing the opposite on their pages. It's a shite state of affairs though.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."