Topic: Sarah Everard* Update Jan 2023 - Met Police rapist.

[So… Howard Philips]

I used to work with the wife of a GMP Armed Response and she said that GMP hate the Met, called them things like corrupt. If other forces know how bad they are, why isn't anything being done from outside the Met to sort their shit out?

Robert Mark was brought in to clean them up in the 70s, which worked.

As soon as he retired normal service was resumed.

[I've been a good boy]

I’m fucking fed up of seeing pictures of Cressida Dick in her full regalia with all her medals and ribbons, what the fuck did this vile sycophant get all them for or is it for every innocent person who has been by killed by officers on her watch?!

Let's be honest, they mean absolutely fuck all. A witch like Priti Patel could be awarded an MBE but it doesn't mean she has any honour or that she'll gain respect from people.

[Nobby Reserve]

Let's be honest, they mean absolutely fuck all. A witch like Priti Patel could be awarded an MBE but it doesn't mean she has any honour or that she'll gain respect from people.

It's always been the case in the military with the top brass and medals. Those brigadiers and generals with chests full of medals awarded for being miles away from the front line

[So… Howard Philips]

It's always been the case in the military with the top brass and medals. Those brigadiers and generals with chests full of medals awarded for being miles away from the front line

He was awarded those gongs for his gargantuan effort in moving his cocktail cabinet six inches nearer to Berlin.

[Dr. Beaker]

Raab wondering how Couzens could have risen through the ranks. He was only a PC! Not to worry though, that's all been edited out now.

[scatman]

Are there not any protests planned against the Met?

[CornerFlag]

Are there not any protests planned against the Met?

Would you want to be a woman at a protest against the Met when they're the ones policing it?

[Dench57]

Would you want to be a woman at a protest against the Met when they're the ones policing it?

Especially when you read stuff like this:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/06/fifty-police-officers-contacted-woman-arrested-at-sarah-everard-vigil-on-tinder

Still though, just one bad apple! Nothing to see here!

[WhoHe]

Raab wondering how Couzens could have risen through the ranks. He was only a PC! Not to worry though, that's all been edited out now.

You can be "promoted" whilst maintaining the same rank. He was promoted to Diplomatic Protection - or suchlike, so though he has the same rank he had a "better" job with presumably better pay and conditions.

One thing they should look at is officers joining as PCs, do their 25 years minimum (to qualify for pension) then leave the force still a PC. I believe the USA forces sack people who don't progress, why not do that here ? Too many going through the motions waiting for their pension, there must be an incentive to improve or else you are out.

[Dr. Beaker]

You can be "promoted" whilst maintaining the same rank. He was promoted to Diplomatic Protection - or suchlike, so though he has the same rank he had a "better" job with presumably better pay and conditions.

He was just a PC who had made a sideways move.

[Crumble]

One thing they should look at is officers joining as PCs, do their 25 years minimum (to qualify for pension) then leave the force still a PC. I believe the USA forces sack people who don't progress, why not do that here ? Too many going through the motions waiting for their pension, there must be an incentive to improve or else you are out.

I once worked for a company that adopted a "move up or move out" policy. It failed - they soon had an acute shortage of people who wanted to do the actual work, everybody just wanted to be a manager.
Surely the police need smart, committed, experienced people doing actual on the ground constabling. I would thought it would be better to pay the PCs more and lower the pay differentials up through the ranks, make the force less top-heavy? And use other methods to weed out the useless ones?

[lobsterboy]

You can be "promoted" whilst maintaining the same rank. He was promoted to Diplomatic Protection - or suchlike, so though he has the same rank he had a "better" job with presumably better pay and conditions.

One thing they should look at is officers joining as PCs, do their 25 years minimum (to qualify for pension) then leave the force still a PC. I believe the USA forces sack people who don't progress, why not do that here ? Too many going through the motions waiting for their pension, there must be an incentive to improve or else you are out.

Yes lets copy the US, their police forces are exemplary. Why should be you be forced to progress if you are happy working in your current role? Why lose the possible experience and knowledge that service could bring?
You read some shite on here and this one is right up there.

[Alan_X]

You can be "promoted" whilst maintaining the same rank. He was promoted to Diplomatic Protection - or suchlike, so though he has the same rank he had a "better" job with presumably better pay and conditions.

One thing they should look at is officers joining as PCs, do their 25 years minimum (to qualify for pension) then leave the force still a PC. I believe the USA forces sack people who don't progress, why not do that here ? Too many going through the motions waiting for their pension, there must be an incentive to improve or else you are out.

I don't agree with that at all. Some people are really good at doing a particular job. It's the Peter Principle: "...which observes that people in a hierarchy tend to rise to their "maximum level of incompetence": employees are promoted based on their success in previous jobs until they reach a level at which they are no longer competent, as skills in one job do not necessarily translate to another..."

If you have a PC who is fantastic at being a PC that's fine. Why does he have to become a sergeant, a job he may be shit at?

[Elmo!]

You get loads of people in IT who are happy to spend their whole career on the helpdesk and are good at it. There is no issue with that and the same should apply to the police.

[Alan_X]

Yes lets copy the US, their police forces are exemplary. Why should be you be forced to progress if you are happy working in your current role? Why lose the possible experience and knowledge that service could bring?
You read some shite on here and this one is right up there.

Exactly. I've just finished rewatching the Wire and that culture is one of the problems the show highlights - the obsession with stats and promotion through the ranks. You get promoted by not rocking the boat and sticking together - exactly the kind of attitude that allows systemic racism, misogyny and corruption to flourish.

[Dr. Beaker]

It's certainly not like that in politics, where you can become Foreign Sec. and......oh I can't be arsed.

[WhoHe]

Yes lets copy the US, their police forces are exemplary. Why should be you be forced to progress if you are happy working in your current role? Why lose the possible experience and knowledge that service could bring?
You read some shite on here and this one is right up there.

I meant armed forces but was unsure if it was army etc. so said forces but still you go ahead and dive in with absolute nonsense, its all good.
I still think its a good idea, there are some right lazy bastards in the police and this will be seen in any/all subsequent reports. The woodentops are the laughing stock of the police, well after hobby bobbies anyway so the idea that one wants to stay a PC decade after decade would ring alarm bells in a lot of companies, apparently not the police. Good PCs can stay good PCs but get better pay/conditions (hard to get better than they currently get like) if they want to stay a PC, easy. This would be the exception as most police like most workers want to progress and get better pay and if they didn't why not ?

[Dr. Beaker]

I know a bloke who basically did his entire career as an armed officer, and boasts that he never did a tap. Never even had to do a bit of paperwork (because of his inactivity obviously). Made loads of money because of the overtime. The armed officers get a fair bit of O/T standing outside embassies 24/7 etc.

[rob1966]

I meant armed forces but was unsure if it was army etc. so said forces but still you go ahead and dive in with absolute nonsense, its all good.
I still think its a good idea, there are some right lazy bastards in the police and this will be seen in any/all subsequent reports. The woodentops are the laughing stock of the police, well after hobby bobbies anyway so the idea that one wants to stay a PC decade after decade would ring alarm bells in a lot of companies, apparently not the police. Good PCs can stay good PCs but get better pay/conditions (hard to get better than they currently get like) if they want to stay a PC, easy. This would be the exception as most police like most workers want to progress and get better pay and if they didn't why not ?

Not everyone wants to be promoted though, some people want to do the job they joined up to do. Being a front line copper is all that some want to do, its not laziness, its just not wanting to get away from the reason they joined in the first place and then having to deal with all the politics that comes with a senior role and the lack of time actually policing.

I started with my full time employer as a driver when I was 21 in 1988, I wanted to stay in the job, but got the promotions to Assistant Manager and Manager as I was forced into it as otherwise it showed a lack of ambition and I fucking hated it, the shit you got just wasn't worth it. Driving was the better job by far, being out and about, dealing with people on site, having a laugh with customers and actually being the face of the company, as most customers only ever met the driver. But drivers are one step up from a turd for most companies and are paid as such. I was that sick of it, I moved into the IT dept in 2001 and have made no attempt to get promoted since, just not worth the grief, the extra hours, the stress.

[Working Class Hen-Pecked Hero]

I meant armed forces but was unsure if it was army etc. so said forces but still you go ahead and dive in with absolute nonsense, its all good.
I still think its a good idea, there are some right lazy bastards in the police and this will be seen in any/all subsequent reports. The woodentops are the laughing stock of the police, well after hobby bobbies anyway so the idea that one wants to stay a PC decade after decade would ring alarm bells in a lot of companies, apparently not the police. Good PCs can stay good PCs but get better pay/conditions (hard to get better than they currently get like) if they want to stay a PC, easy. This would be the exception as most police like most workers want to progress and get better pay and if they didn't why not ?

Progression to sergeant is a lot more work for not a lot more money. Top level PC is decent enough pay and depending on what you're doing (response, traffic etc) you normally find a career path you're good at. It's also hard to judge police on what you call lazy and what the job calls lazy. There's loads of bobbies who'd stay in the nick doing case files whilst others are happy going out answering calls, going job to job. Both doing work but different, which ones lazy?

All in all there's a lot more work to be done to sort the police out, and there's stories floating about that would shock you and ones that wouldn't. A lot of it isn't keeping it hush but proving the offence

[jonnypb]

Barrow fake police officer jailed for arrest attempt https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-58829818

What goes through peoples minds to do things like this….. it’s good that the woman had the sense to challenge the man with the help of a passer by.

[rob1966]

Barrow fake police officer jailed for arrest attempt https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-58829818

What goes through peoples minds to do things like this….. it’s good that the woman had the sense to challenge the man with the help of a passer by.

18 weeks is not long enough, I'd have given him a few years for that.

[TSC]

Barrow fake police officer jailed for arrest attempt https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-58829818

What goes through peoples minds to do things like this….. it’s good that the woman had the sense to challenge the man with the help of a passer by.

So had his suspended sentence for another offence invoked.  Wonder what that offence was. 

[Jshooters]

So had his suspended sentence for another offence invoked.  Wonder what that offence was.

Yeah but skim a bit of cash from a blue chip company? 3 - 5 years minimum

[jonnypb]

Yeah but skim a bit of cash from a blue chip company? 3 - 5 years minimum

That's where our justice system is floored.  I'm sick of reading about all these repeat offenders who have a crime list as long as your arm, and who have caused misery and upset for many people, but they end up getting 'another' chance by the judge, or handed a small fine.

[Red-Soldier]

Tory peers to defy Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson with push to make misogyny a hate crime

Exclusive: Lady Newlove confident of cross-party support for amendment, despite PM’s stance

Conservative peers and MPs will defy Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson’s stance that misogyny should not be a hate crime and push ahead with attempts to change the law, the Guardian understands.

The former victims’ commissioner and Conservative peer Helen Newlove is leading the charge, tabling an amendment to the police, crime, sentencing and courts bill, currently at committee stage in the House of Lords.

Lady Newlove said she was “disappointed and dismayed” at Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson’s comments this week stating that he did not support making misogyny a hate crime.

“I was dismayed with it. Because at the end of the day, we need to fully understand how women feel,” she said.

“If the rhetoric is we’re going to have an inquiry for Sarah Everard, for the prime minister to dismiss [making misogyny a hate crime] is not really to have understood what happened to her. I’m disappointed and hopefully the government will start to listen.”

Johnson came under fire this week for appearing to harden his stance against making misogyny a hate crime, despite backing an “experimental” move to require police forces to collect data on crimes apparently motivated by hostility towards women, in the wake of Everard’s murder in March.

The National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) said, six months on, it was waiting for guidance from the Home Office about how the recording should be done.

Asked whether he thought misogyny should be made a hate crime this week, Johnson said: “I think, to be perfectly frank, if you simply widen the scope of what you ask the police to do you’ll just increase the problem.”

The justice secretary, Dominic Raab, also rejected calls for it to become a hate crime and appeared confused about its meaning in an interview with the BBC, suggesting it could apply to abuse against either women or men.

The first step of collecting data was seen as a potentially significant step towards changing the law, and changing culture within the police to compel officers to take violence against women seriously.

Eleven police forces already record crimes motivated by hatred of someone’s sex or gender, with indications that data improves outcomes in addressing the abuse and harassment of women and girls.

Campaigners are calling for sex or gender to be included as a hate crime category alongside religion, sexual orientation, disability and transgender identity, which would give judges the ability to increase the punishment of an offence if it was motivated by a hostility towards women.

The Law Commission is expected to publish a wide-ranging review of hate crime this autumn. It has previously proposed that misogyny should be considered a hate crime.

Newlove said she was confident of cross-party support for her amendment, which is championed in the Commons by the Labour MP Stella Creasy and is likely to be supported by Conservative MPs including Bob Neill, the chair of the justice select committee.

“We are probing the government to listen, and hopefully they will take it onboard and they will accept it,” said Newlove. “This is not just one woman on a mission, we’ve got men also on the amendment who will stand up and say it’s much needed. I won’t give up and I’ll keep probing because it’s very important that we recognise this as a building block to make people feel safe.”

Creasy said misogyny drove crimes against women, adding: “We don’t need to create new crimes to recognise that, if we give the courts the power to take that into account in sentencing and ensure the police record it, but we do need political leadership that understands it and acts to address it.”

A Home Office spokesperson said it would not pre-empt the conclusions of the Law Commission review, but confirmed police forces were being asked to record any crime where the victim perceived it was motivated by hostility to their sex. The government was “in consultation” with the NPCC and forces on how to take this forward.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/08/tory-peers-to-defy-boris-johnson-with-push-to-make-misogyny-a-hate-crime

[TSC]

https://news.sky.com/story/north-yorkshire-police-boss-resigns-after-saying-women-need-to-be-streetwise-following-sarah-everard-murder-12433750

[Fortneef]

While that cop is a prize prat, there is some truth in his blather.

We should all know exactly what powers the police have, it should be drummed into kids at school like stranger danger and the green cross code. I certainly dont know for sure. (A good link appreciated!)

[TSC]

While that cop is a prize prat, there is some truth in his blather.

We should all know exactly what powers the police have, it should be drummed into kids at school like stranger danger and the green cross code. I certainly dont know for sure. (A good link appreciated!)

In the context of the Everard case (arrested for supposedly breaking Covid rules, handcuffed, abducted, raped and murdered by a policeman) what truth does he refer to?

[west_london_red]

In the context of the Everard case (arrested for supposedly breaking Covid rules, handcuffed, abducted, raped and murdered by a policeman) what truth does he refer to?

It’s a tough one, as the assumption is that Couzens stopped her for breaking Covid rules, and don’t get me wrong as I have said previously firstly my own first instinct would be to comply with what an officer is asking me to do, I guess it would also cross my mind to think hang on if I have broken the rules I’d get a penalty notice or something like that, the officer would take my details down etc, it’s not something they lock you up for not that they need to cuff you for. I’m guessing that’s what the senior officer was trying to say in a cack handed way?

[TSC]

It’s a tough one, as the assumption is that Couzens stopped her for breaking Covid rules, and don’t get me wrong as I have said previously firstly my own first instinct would be to comply with what an officer is asking me to do, I guess it would also cross my mind to think hang on if I have broken the rules I’d get a penalty notice or something like that, the officer would take my details down etc, it’s not something they lock you up for not that they need to cuff you for. I’m guessing that’s what the senior officer was trying to say in a cack handed way?

In terms of this case a loan woman walking alone at night probably feeling vulnerable and frightened to the extent she rang her boyfriend for a lengthy period while walking.  Suddenly stopped by police with a warrant card. Possibly thought, ‘well I may be contravening Covid rules but at least I’m safe now as it’s a policeman’.

[west_london_red]

In terms of this case a loan woman walking alone at night probably feeling vulnerable and frightened to the extent she rang her boyfriend for a lengthy period while walking.  Suddenly stopped by police with a warrant card. Possibly thought, ‘well I may be contravening Covid rules but at least I’m safe now as it’s a policeman’.

I can’t argue with that either, a completely rational and understandable thought in the situation too.

[rob1966]

In the context of the Everard case (arrested for supposedly breaking Covid rules, handcuffed, abducted, raped and murdered by a policeman) what truth does he refer to?

I think he was trying to say that if Sarah had known that it was not an arrestable offence, then she would have been in a position to question the arrest and refuse to allow him to cuff her. Does come across as a cack handed way of trying to be helpful.

It does need highlighting to women what they can and cannot be arrested for. My wife has said she would have complied, as she had no idea what a police officer is and isn't able to arrest you for. It was all new laws and I don't anyone really knew whether it was a fixed penalty fine or a court appearance.

[Red-Soldier]

Misogyny and racism fine, paying too little for some Jaffa cakes..........nah.

Police officer sacked for paying 90p too little for charity Jaffa Cakes

PC Chris Dwyer put 10p in charity tin at Halifax police station and claimed he had paid correct amount of £1

A police officer has been sacked after taking two packets of Jaffa Cakes from a charity stall without paying full price.

PC Chris Dwyer paid 10p for the confectionery, and then claimed he had paid the correct amount of £1.

The West Yorkshire officer, 51, later changed his story and said he could not remember what coins he had placed in the charity tin at Halifax police station.

Dwyer was given an instant dismissal on Thursday after a hearing found him guilty of gross misconduct and said his behaviour was “dishonest and of a criminal nature”.

Akbar Khan, who chaired the misconduct panel, said Dwyer’s actions were an “abuse of trust” and had brought “discredit on the police and the service”.

He said: “The officer is solely to blame for his own conduct, which was dishonest and of a criminal nature. The nature of his dishonesty related to underpaying for items which proceeds were to support a charity to which he was fully aware.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/14/police-officer-sacked-for-paying-90p-too-little-for-charity-jaffa-cakes

[Jshooters]

Misogyny and racism fine, paying too little for some Jaffa cakes..........nah.

Police officer sacked for paying 90p too little for charity Jaffa Cakes

PC Chris Dwyer put 10p in charity tin at Halifax police station and claimed he had paid correct amount of £1

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/14/police-officer-sacked-for-paying-90p-too-little-for-charity-jaffa-cakes

   Some 2,000 allegations of sexual misconduct including rape have been levelled against serving police officers over the last four years, according to data released under freedom of information rules.   

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/police-sexual-misconduct-uk-b1935993.html

[So… Howard Philips]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/police-sexual-misconduct-uk-b1935993.html

The message is 'Don't abuse Jaffa Cakes', other than that, business as usual.

[Fortneef]

I think he was trying to say that if Sarah had known that it was not an arrestable offence, then she would have been in a position to question the arrest and refuse to allow him to cuff her. Does come across as a cack handed way of trying to be helpful.

It does need highlighting to women what they can and cannot be arrested for. My wife has said she would have complied, as she had no idea what a police officer is and isn't able to arrest you for. It was all new laws and I don't anyone really knew whether it was a fixed penalty fine or a court appearance.

But even if it is an arrestable offence, do lone policemen handcuff people for such minor offences and put them in an unmarked car? 

And even if they can and do, should they?  Youd think - take details , or call the regular plod to pick them up - would be the proper procedure.

I am not sure, I don't think 99% of yous reading this are sure, and we all fucking well should be. 

[Legs]

I guess the poor lady had no idea what was happening when stopped.

Covid is all new and nobody knew the rules even the idiots who set them didnt.

Nobody knows what you would have done in her shoes its hard to say each human reacts differently.

I can defo see lots of men/women now refusing to get into a police car the confidence in them is completely shattered and still the leader keeps her job.

RIP Sarah.

[rob1966]

But even if it is an arrestable offence, do lone policemen handcuff people for such minor offences and put them in an unmarked car? 

And even if they can and do, should they?  Youd think - take details , or call the regular plod to pick them up - would be the proper procedure.

I am not sure, I don't think 99% of yous reading this are sure, and we all fucking well should be. 

Breaking Covid laws may have seemed like her to have been a major and arrestable issue, we'll never know.

Thinking about it more, its not realistic that we know what is an what isn't an arrestable offence, I grew up on Tower Hill and even though I've been arrested twice for minor offences, I had no idea at the time if I should have been. We do need clarification on whether an arrest needs a marked car, but then again, its fair to assume that an unaccompanied undercover cop can arrest and cuff a suspect while waiting for a van. On a cold dark night, the offer to sit in a warm car would then be appealing. 

The focus really needs to be on the Police, they need to get their own house in order first.

[scatman]

The Mayor supporting Dick......just appalling what this woman gets away with, absolutely fucking appalling.