Topic: Brexit. the Con continues

[Libertine]

Government nudging away from its Brexit?

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/britain-planning-swiss-style-relationship-with-eu-post-brexit/

The EU hate the Swiss arrangements. Have been trying to get away from that kind of complexity for years.

The idea that they will go for this kind of approach to help the UK out of the mess they've got themselves into is for the birds.

[TSC]

The EU hate the Swiss arrangements. Have been trying to get away from that kind of complexity for years.

The idea that they will go for this kind of approach to help the UK out of the mess they've got themselves into is for the birds.

I think the bigger point is that some government source briefed the press here about it, yet a government minister denied it earlier.  May be the start of another internal scrap within government.  The various sources that show the damage Brexit is doing can’t be ignored head-in-the-sand like, particularly as by all accounts we’re now in recession.

[Dr. Beaker]

They just want to see how the idea is received without appearing committed to it.

Would love to hear Bozo' s take on it.

[Jiminy Cricket]

So. What's happening here is that the Tories are further ahead of the curve* than the Labour Party. Yes? Unfuckingbelievable. Except, it is believable.

* Well, not that either are ahead of the curve. Public opinion is ahead of both of them.

[kopite77]

They just want to see how the idea is received without appearing committed to it.

Would love to hear Bozo' s take on it.

I really don’t think Johnson could give a flying one, he’s too busy hawking his arse round the world and earning $270.000 a pop to spout shite to whoever will pay him!

[PaulF]

Is bozo doing this whilst he supposed to be doing government business?

[Dr. Beaker]

Is bozo doing this whilst he supposed to be doing government business?

Constituency business.

[kopite77]

Constituency business.

Yes the same as Hancock, I know he’s lost the Party whip but he’s still the MP for West Suffolk and apparently the Official reason he gave for joining I’m a Celebrity was to raise awareness of Dyslexia, but he hasn’t mentioned one single word about it, Dyslexia my arse he’s there for the £400.000 to feather his own nest!

[stoa]

The EU hate the Swiss arrangements. Have been trying to get away from that kind of complexity for years.

The idea that they will go for this kind of approach to help the UK out of the mess they've got themselves into is for the birds.

It's also ridiculous to think that there'll be extended access to the internal market without the free movement of people as suggested in the article. Not going to happen. Free movement of people is one of the basic principles of the EU just like free trade between members, so you won't get one without the other. Again it's the have your cake and eat it too approach that the Tories have gone for since the referendum. Not going to happen. Add to that that there's still red tape if you want to ship goods between Switzerland and the EU. I love close to the Swiss border and on a regular basis we have long lines of trucks waiting and creating a mess in traffic, because they have to get their papers sorted to then cross the border.

Also Switzerland is in a different position compared to the UK, because it's in the middle of Europe and both sides kind of profit from the agreements (and they can see that they do). We have loads of EU citizens working in Switzerland while living in the EU and we have loads of Swiss citizens going across the borders to do their shopping. Both a major factors for both parties and that's why there's enough will to make it work, but still the EU have made it clear in the past that freedom of movement of people is an essential part of the agreements and if Switzerland put up restrictions then there'd be consequences.

[PaulF]

At the bottom of today's BBC news website , there's a picture of the Daily Express headline "Fury at 'Absurd idea' to go soft on Brexit".
I can't read the accompanying text, but it looks like there might be movement away from the stupid hard brexit we forced ourselves into.
As long as we get to keep our blue passports, all's good though

[BarryCrocker]

As long as we get to keep our blue passports, all's good though

Which are made by a Franco-Dutch company in Poland.

Winning is winning.

[killer-heels]

I hope the EU reject any deal. This country deserves every bit of of misery its getting thanks to Brexit. More suffering please.

[Riquende]

The reporting in the Times quotes a senior Govt source saying...

“It’s obviously something the EU would never offer us upfront because they would say you are trying to have your cake and eat it but the reason I think we will get it is because it is overwhelmingly in the businesses interests on both sides,” one said …

So we're back to the German carmakers, French champagne makers, etc, barging down the EU's doors to force them to make a deal that suits the UK.

[oldfordie]

The reporting in the Times quotes a senior Govt source saying...

“It’s obviously something the EU would never offer us upfront because they would say you are trying to have your cake and eat it but the reason I think we will get it is because it is overwhelmingly in the businesses interests on both sides,” one said …

So we're back to the German carmakers, French champagne makers, etc, barging down the EU's doors to force them to make a deal that suits the UK.

? We will get a new deal only if we agree to the conditions.
We won't get a new deal because the German car makers want it, that's just a similar argument to what May argued back in 2016, you think it's about pressure, we will get a great deal if everyone gets behind the government. it was boll. it was and still is about Red lines. we will have to agree to some of those red lines to get the deal.

[redbyrdz]

Its interesting that there is a least talk about deals with the EU. Maybe those absolute dire economic figures have started to aink in.

[Riquende]

? We will get a new deal only if we agree to the conditions.
We won't get a new deal because the German car makers want it, that's just a similar argument to what May argued back in 2016, you think it's about pressure, we will get a great deal if everyone gets behind the government. it was boll. it was and still is about Red lines. we will have to agree to some of those red lines to get the deal.

That's what I mean - the apparent Government thinking is back to 2016 levels of "Businesses in Europe will twist the EU's arm to give us the deal we want without concessions".

[thaddeus]

The reporting in the Times quotes a senior Govt source saying...

“It’s obviously something the EU would never offer us upfront because they would say you are trying to have your cake and eat it but the reason I think we will get it is because it is overwhelmingly in the businesses interests on both sides,” one said …

So we're back to the German carmakers, French champagne makers, etc, barging down the EU's doors to force them to make a deal that suits the UK.

Ignoring the likelihood of this leading nowhere it's interesting that the Tories - the swivel-eyed loons of Brexit - are even exploring it.  Starmer has already drawn his red lines that such things are completely off the table and he will just "make Brexit work" through other means, whatever they may be.  The Tories being more open minded to reintroducing closer ties with the EU than Labour will ultimately be a tactical mistake by Labour.

The main flaw in the argument of the senior Government source is that the downsides to the EU of losing frictionless trade with the UK are largely being compensated by business relocating from the UK to the EU. I'm certain the financial centres within the EU will be lobbying hard to retain the hard Brexit for as long as possible so that they can continue cannibalising the City of London.

[oldfordie]

That's what I mean - the apparent Government thinking is back to 2016 levels of "Businesses in Europe will twist the EU's arm to give us the deal we want without concessions".

Sorry  My mistake, thought you were actually arguing German car manufactures pressure forced the EU to do a deal.
Still not sure where this story about Sunak and a Swiss type deals come from.
Cynic makes me think it could be to try and get Labour to respond in support then deny they want it. a Swiss type deal is worse than the Norway deal so they would have had even more s,, to throw at Labour.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

It's also ridiculous to think that there'll be extended access to the internal market without the free movement of people as suggested in the article. Not going to happen. Free movement of people is one of the basic principles of the EU just like free trade between members, so you won't get one without the other. Again it's the have your cake and eat it too approach that the Tories have gone for since the referendum. Not going to happen. Add to that that there's still red tape if you want to ship goods between Switzerland and the EU. I love close to the Swiss border and on a regular basis we have long lines of trucks waiting and creating a mess in traffic, because they have to get their papers sorted to then cross the border.

Also Switzerland is in a different position compared to the UK, because it's in the middle of Europe and both sides kind of profit from the agreements (and they can see that they do). We have loads of EU citizens working in Switzerland while living in the EU and we have loads of Swiss citizens going across the borders to do their shopping. Both a major factors for both parties and that's why there's enough will to make it work, but still the EU have made it clear in the past that freedom of movement of people is an essential part of the agreements and if Switzerland put up restrictions then there'd be consequences.

[redbyrdz]

Just saw the headline "PM rules out Brexit deal that sees UK follow EU law". They are really fuckwits. It's like saying, I want to play a football match against you, but we won't follow your rules on the pitch. Er, no, thanks.

[thaddeus]

Just saw the headline "PM rules out Brexit deal that sees UK follow EU law". They are really fuckwits. It's like saying, I want to play a football match against you, but we won't follow your rules on the pitch. Er, no, thanks.

I assume he means broader rules from the European Courts (on things like human rights...).  He surely must understand that any trade deals are going to be dependent on the UK exporters following the rules of the country they are exporting to.

The latter though is the main problem with our aspirational "bonfire" of regulations, it just means in many cases we won't be able to export to the massive market right on our doorstep.  Lowering standards may lower costs but we're not going to be able to match the low costs of the current global mass producers.  If somebody wants to import some tat are they going to import from China for a few pence or from the UK for a few pounds?!

[Nobby Reserve]

Just saw the headline "PM rules out Brexit deal that sees UK follow EU law". They are really fuckwits. It's like saying, I want to play a football match against you, but we won't follow your rules on the pitch. Er, no, thanks.

Theo Usherwood
@theousherwood
ERG holds its regular Monday meeting later in Westminster.

Senior member tells me they'll go "completely and utterly berserk" if there were any move towards a Swiss-style arrangement.

"For many of us, it's the defining issue of why we are in politics."
7:38 AM · Nov 21, 2022
·Twitter Web App

https://twitter.com/theousherwood/status/1594596168348073984?s=20&t=RZy0kWFaojnbBpCUWicxAg



There are massive vested interests in keeping EU/EC oversight out of the UK political/regulatory process, in order to protect the 'secrecy jurisdiction' status of the British Overseas Territories and Crown Dependencies.

[Nobby Reserve]

Meanwhile, who will the grocks of Grimsby blame for this?

Landmark Grimsby seafood factory closing after losses of £8 million

One of Grimsby's landmark seafood factories is closing, in a major blow to the town.

The former Five Star Fish facility was taken on by Icelandic Seafood International in 2020 but has recorded a staggering £8 million in losses, with bosses blaming Brexit, the pandemic, and Russia's invasion of Ukraine. It marks a tragic end to hopes of a quick return to the heady days for one of Grimsby’s largest fish processing factories.

ISI will now pull out of the UK and will focus on its European operations

https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/landmark-grimsby-seafood-factory-closing-7838339

[redbyrdz]

Meanwhile, who will the grocks of Grimsby blame for this?

Landmark Grimsby seafood factory closing after losses of £8 million

One of Grimsby's landmark seafood factories is closing, in a major blow to the town.

The former Five Star Fish facility was taken on by Icelandic Seafood International in 2020 but has recorded a staggering £8 million in losses, with bosses blaming Brexit, the pandemic, and Russia's invasion of Ukraine. It marks a tragic end to hopes of a quick return to the heady days for one of Grimsby’s largest fish processing factories.

ISI will now pull out of the UK and will focus on its European operations

https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/landmark-grimsby-seafood-factory-closing-7838339

I once read that the UK based fish processing plants mostly processed fish for the EU market (which caught in British waters), while most of the fish consumed in the UK is (or was) processed in Europe. For example there was no processing facility for flatfish (like plaice) in the UK, and it all came the the Netherlands .

[Elmo!]

I once read that the UK based fish processing plants mostly processed fish for the EU market (which caught in British waters), while most of the fish consumed in the UK is (or was) processed in Europe. For example there was no processing facility for flatfish (like plaice) in the UK, and it all came the the Netherlands .

Largely correct - most of the fish is landed in Scotland and we mostly catch fish like Herring in the North Sea, along with shellfish like Langoustines etc, which we don't eat much of the UK.

We don't catch much white fish which we do tend to eat so need to import.

[rob1966]

I hope the EU reject any deal. This country deserves every bit of of misery its getting thanks to Brexit. More suffering please.

We do need this, so that the fucking idiots who voted for it realise the truth and then don't push back when we eventually start fixing the mess.

[PaulF]

Largely correct - most of the fish is landed in Scotland and we mostly catch fish like Herring in the North Sea, along with shellfish like Langoustines etc, which we don't eat much of the UK.

We don't catch much white fish which we do tend to eat so need to import.

And I think you raked it in last month 😃

[Machae]

We do need this, so that the fucking idiots who voted for it realise the truth and then don't push back when we eventually start fixing the mess.

To you and I, but until papers/media (Inc BBC), politicians (Inc Labour) call it out, then things won't change as plebs won't equate it due to Brexit, but rather some other bollocks like Putin

[WhereAngelsPlay]

We do need this, so that the fucking idiots who voted for it realise the truth and then don't push back when we eventually start fixing the mess.

The fucking idiots who swung it (ignoring those c*nts in Ireland,party not voters) have been dying off & will all be dead by the time the so called benefits come around,that c*nt Mogg said 50yrs didn't he ?

[rob1966]

The fucking idiots who swung it (ignoring those c*nts in Ireland,party not voters) have been dying off & will all be dead by the time the so called benefits come around,that c*nt Mogg said 50yrs didn't he ?

That's what made me so fucking angry, my kids will be in their mid 50s before any benefits are seen, which I fucking doubt will be the truth , the c*nts who voted for it long since dead. Fucked up a two generations lives for what? Their fucking stupidity and racism.

[BarryCrocker]

That's what made me so fucking angry, my kids will be in their mid 50s before any benefits are seen, which I fucking doubt will be the truth , the c*nts who voted for it long since dead. Fucked up a two generations lives for what? Their fucking stupidity and racism.

Anyone can promise something that's over the horizon when they won't be around when things don't come to fruition.

[PaulF]

Anyone can promise something that's over the horizon when they won't be around when things don't come to fruition.

That's not true. And if in fifty years we aren't living in a land of unicorns and a decade of liverpool quadruples you can come here and quote me.

[reddebs]

I doubt they'll listen but who knows?

BBC News - Brexit: Don't scrap EU rules, firms and unions say


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63741465

[thaddeus]

Also from the Beeb

UK net migration hits all-time record at 504,000

UK net migration hit 504,000 in the year to June - the highest figure ever recorded, The Office for National Statistics (ONS) estimates.

The rise is driven by people arriving legally from outside the EU and the resumption of post-pandemic travel.

...

Today's figures will intensify debates over the role of overseas workers into the UK economy and wider labour market - weeks after Home Secretary Suella Braverman said she wanted to resurrect a repeatedly missed government target to reduce net migration to below 100,000.

Surely 504,000 compared to the 100,000 target is just a rounding issue for this government.  It does show the folly of countless home secretaries religiously aiming for these arbitrary targets that are seemingly always destined to miss.  At least before they could just sigh and say it was all the EU's fault - not sure what excuse they'll come up with this time.

[reddebs]

Also from the Beeb

Surely 504,000 compared to the 100,000 target is just a rounding issue for this government.  It does show the folly of countless home secretaries religiously aiming for these arbitrary targets that are seemingly always destined to miss.  At least before they could just sigh and say it was all the EU's fault - not sure what excuse they'll come up with this time.

The guy discussing it on the lunchtime news said it's mainly down to an un precedented amount of overseas students, the evacuation of Afghanistan and Ukraine plus Hong Kong residents taking up the option to move to the UK.

Those arriving on small boats aren't included in the figures.

[rob1966]

The guy discussing it on the lunchtime news said it's mainly down to an un precedented amount of overseas students, the evacuation of Afghanistan and Ukraine plus Hong Kong residents taking up the option to move to the UK.

Those arriving on small boats aren't included in the figures.

Saw a clip on Jeremy Vine of that fucking hag Braverman being asked by a Tory "If a 16 yr old needs to flee Africa due to persecution and they have a younger sibling in the UK, how do they apply for asylum" She fucking ummed and ahhed, didn't have a clue and then mumbled some shite about filling in the application form. Then he said something about how do they do that, more mumbling, then he said they can't get here legally so have to cross the channel by boat. She just mumbled about filling in forms again.

[reddebs]

Saw a clip on Jeremy Vine of that fucking hag Braverman being asked by a Tory "If a 16 yr old needs to flee Africa due to persecution and they have a younger sibling in the UK, how do they apply for asylum" She fucking ummed and ahhed, didn't have a clue and then mumbled some shite about filling in the application form. Then he said something about how do they do that, more mumbling, then he said they can't get here legally so have to cross the channel by boat. She just mumbled about filling in forms again.

Theyve no fucking idea how things work mate, they kept saying the same about Ukraine refugees with no understanding of trying to do that in a war torn country.

I remember back around brexit time I had a client who worked at Manchester airport for the Border Force and she said there was absolutely no way they'd be able to cope as things stood as they were understaffed and not trained to all the new requirements.

They haven't a clue on how real life works and just think things will run as smoothly as they've imagined it all in their heads.

[Riquende]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/24/steve-baker-wants-to-renegotiate-brexit-agreement-over-northern-ireland

They're just insistent on taking us back to the arguments of 2016-17, having lost the ensuing negotiations so comprehensively.

[TSC]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/24/steve-baker-wants-to-renegotiate-brexit-agreement-over-northern-ireland

They're just insistent on taking us back to the arguments of 2016-17, having lost the ensuing negotiations so comprehensively.

As if the E.U. would agree. Has Baker been asleep since 2016?  In reality of course he’s pandering to the ERG and DUP loons.

[Jshooters]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/24/steve-baker-wants-to-renegotiate-brexit-agreement-over-northern-ireland

They're just insistent on taking us back to the arguments of 2016-17, having lost the ensuing negotiations so comprehensively.

Like Jeremy C*nt this morning who has had enough of experts it seems

But Mr Hunt, asked about that Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) analysis of a 4 per cent GDP slump, replied: “I don’t accept the 4 per cent.”

When it was pointed out he accepts other OBR forecasts, he said: “I don’t have to accept all of them”, adding: “I accept all the ones I agree with.”