Topic: Anfield Road Extension

[RedorRed]

There isn't the room behind the Kop to do this sort of design.

not at present there isn’t

[CraigDS]

not at present there isn’t

I can’t imagine there ever will be. We’ve just built a new store in the way, the road is highly unlikely to be moved and the space it could have been moved to (the big area of open land from knocking down houses) is being / about to be built on which would then cause RTL issues.

[RedorRed]

I can’t imagine there ever will be. We’ve just built a new store in the way, the road is highly unlikely to be moved and the space it could have been moved to (the big area of open land from knocking down houses) is being / about to be built on which would then cause RTL issues.

I know all that..... but you never know what’s in store for the future. I have thoughts they could’ve made the Annie Road end a new Kop..... similar in design to the picture we’ve seen but obviously single tier and then redevelop the current Kop into a 2 tier stand by going up rather than further back much more.

I’m just thinking of different ideas that’s all..... just interested in how things are developing, would been good if they had thought of future plans for the Sir Kenny and Kop at the same time so there was a joint plan for any future development.
Wouldn’t necessary have to happen but would mean if it did then it would be easier for it all to come together.

[Eeyore]

I’m fairly sure you’ve argued in the past for an intimidating designed stand / stadium Al over the soulless bowl design.

Anyway, you clearly have no opinion of the new stand seems it’s not important so maybe you can take your rants out of the Anny Rd update thread to somewhere else?

What rant Craig ?

I just happen to believe the fan culture and who is in the ground is more important than the bricks and mortar. We have an incredible away support, we take ridiculous amounts of fans to finals and we have fans who spend time creating songs and a great atmosphere. None of that involves the Kop.

[meady1981]

Either way, to get from 45k to 61k , plus a new training ground, without bankrupting ourselves, in 6 years and stay at Anfield is pretty pretty pretty pretty pretttay pretttay good imho. All I’m arsed about now for the future of the ground is better transport, safe standing and guilding it with that premier league holders flag.

[geoffpd]

The fuck are you on about? And you literally said give the whole lower tier to the away fans. It's in the post I quoted. Weird flex.

NO I DID NOT! End of conversation.


[You may have an iPhone but you are still using the free version of Tapatalk and spamming us with that knowledge]

[Macred]

I can’t imagine there ever will be. We’ve just built a new store in the way, the road is highly unlikely to be moved and the space it could have been moved to (the big area of open land from knocking down houses) is being / about to be built on which would then cause RTL issues.

How is the store in the way?

If you believe some people Anfield Road was in the way.

The 'A' Road that is in the way has recently and quietly slipped to being a 'B' road.

[Richie69]

Can't believe how close we were to leaving Anfield in retrospect.

[Macred]

What rant Craig ?

I just happen to believe the fan culture and who is in the ground is more important than the bricks and mortar. We have an incredible away support, we take ridiculous amounts of fans to finals and we have fans who spend time creating songs and a great atmosphere. None of that involves the Kop.

People have bought into the idea of The Kop. Think of it like art... or music... the evoke a response in people.... buildings can do that... some sounds, sights... promote emotional responses... the more people associate a response with something the more it perpetuates the reaction.

[Welshred]

NO I DID NOT! End of conversation.


[You may have an iPhone but you are still using the free version of Tapatalk and spamming us with that knowledge]

It is LITERALLY in the post I quoted from you

[CraigDS]

How is the store in the way?

It's less in the way than other things, but it would certainly need taking into account if we expanded the Kop in line with the plans for the Anny and Main as it is particularly close to that left corner.

If you believe some people Anfield Road was in the way.

The 'A' Road that is in the way has recently and quietly slipped to being a 'B' road.

Most people never really thought Anny Rd was in the way as it's a minor road which was basically for access more than anything else, and there were many other ways to get access to the other side.

Walton Breck on the other hand is a lot busier and not something that could be closed. It would need diverting or building over - both of which are becoming more and more unlikely given the empty land on the other side is being developed.

Also, when did it become a B road? It's still the A5089 isn't it?

[Eeyore]

People have bought into the idea of The Kop. Think of it like art... or music... the evoke a response in people.... buildings can do that... some sounds, sights... promote emotional responses... the more people associate a response with something the more it perpetuates the reaction.

Isn't it the other way around though. Surely the culture of the fans and the atmosphere they have created has created the mythology of the Kop not the bricks and mortar. If you swapped the Kop for the gwladys street Everton fans on the kop would still be booing and lobbing their kids at the opposition. Whilst Liverpool fans would still be getting behind their team, creating songs and making an atmosphere.

[Eeyore]

I can’t imagine there ever will be. We’ve just built a new store in the way, the road is highly unlikely to be moved and the space it could have been moved to (the big area of open land from knocking down houses) is being / about to be built on which would then cause RTL issues.

For me their are two ways to expand the Kop. Firstly to go over Walton Breck Road with a tunnel under the stand and the second is to shift the pitch towards the park. I think both options are highly unlikely.

[TepidT2O]

Disappointed that there are no giant aubergines as part of the structure.


If only they’d taken some of the mock ups on here as inspiration.

We’re forever to be denied that 5 layer 30,000 seater Annie road end.....

[Son of Spion]

Isn't it the other way around though. Surely the culture of the fans and the atmosphere they have created has created the mythology of the Kop not the bricks and mortar. If you swapped the Kop for the gwladys street Everton fans on the kop would still be booing and lobbing their kids at the opposition. Whilst Liverpool fans would still be getting behind their team, creating songs and making an atmosphere.

I'd say it's both.

The culture of those on the Spion Kop created the legend, but the stage the legend played out on was also iconic. Think The Cavern and The Beatles. The Kop is similar.

Looking back, The Beatles, The Cavern and the people who frequented it created the legend, but now the venue inspires new people and perpetuates the legend further.

Myths, legends and stunning realities are often born when the right people are in the right place at the right time. Take one of those things out of the equation and it doesn't happen, or if it does, it happens in a completely different way. The Spion Kop being the brooding behemoth it was in itself, lent itself perfectly to the mindset and culture of those who occupied it at that time. The bricks, mortar and the amazing stage it provided seeped into the consciousness of the people on it, and the culture of those on it seeped into the walls and the Kop terrace itself. Right stage. Right people. Right mindset. Right time.

[Eeyore]

I'd say it's both.

The culture of those on the Spion Kop created the legend, but the stage the legend played out on was also iconic. Think The Cavern and The Beatles. The Kop is similar.

Looking back, The Beatles, The Cavern and the people who frequented it created the legend, but now the venue inspires new people and perpetuates the legend further.

Myths, legends and stunning realities are often born when the right people are in the right place at the right time. Take one of those things out of the equation and it doesn't happen, or if it does, it happens in a completely different way. The Spion Kop being the brooding behemoth it was in itself, lent itself perfectly to the mindset and culture of those who occupied it at that time. The bricks, mortar and the amazing stage it provided seeped into the consciousness of the people on it, and the culture of those on it seeped into the walls and the Kop terrace itself. Right stage. Right people. Right mindset. Right time.

You may be correct but for me the thing that connects the cavern and the Kop is one thing and it is the energy of the people who frequented both. Add in talismanic managers like Shanks and Klopp and that energy and positivity does special things. Have dower negative tossers like Moyes and you end up chucking your kids at people.

The Kop became legendary under Shanks for me. An exuberant showman who influenced both the team and the fanbase. Pretty much what Klopp has done. They could create an atmosphere in a Mausoleum. Shanks created the fan culture and Klopp reignited it.

We got slaughtered for apparently celebrating a draw against West Brom but it wasn't about that it was about recreating a never say die attitude that has served us so well. Kloppage time.

[CraigDS]

For me their are two ways to expand the Kop. Firstly to go over Walton Breck Road with a tunnel under the stand and the second is to shift the pitch towards the park. I think both options are highly unlikely.

The latter isn’t happening give the new Main and Anny.

As for the former, it would likely cause RTL issues with the buildings the other side of WBR.

[stoopid yank]

To get back on topic - had some logistical questions for everyone:

How soon could planning permission be granted and how soon could they start construction?

How long would it take once started - quicker than main?

How will Brexit affect construction?

Is there anyway to see more detailed plans?

[meady1981]

How will Brexit affect construction?

Well it will be made by good honest English people, using proper English materials, transported by sound english methods and ready by 2028 for twice the price. The club have released mock-ups. 

Is there anyway to see more detailed plans?

There you go

[CraigDS]

 

[stoopid yank]

Well it will be made by good honest English people, using proper English materials, transported by sound english methods and ready by 2028 for twice the price. The club have released mock-ups. 


There you go

Well played sir

[kavah]

Ha ha

[The Lord Admiral]

Meady, you've really outdone yourself there! 

[roots99]

Did anyone go to either of the drop-in sessions this weekend? Are the club saying anything over and above what's already on the site?

[Kekule]

There you go

 

That’s a corker, that one!

[kavah]

quite a few paleolithic blues there, lining the route, fuming at the construction crew

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

What's next after this? Sir Kenny's stand?

[Alan_X]

What's next after this? Sir Kenny's stand?

Winning the League. I think this will be it for a while. I'm sure there will be feasibility work done (or already carried out) on any other possible expansion but the focus will be on the pitch.

[geoffpd]

The most ridiculous thing about this post isnt that you think the club would build on top of the current stand but would give nearly 6.5k tickets to away fans for each game...

If you check (which I have just done) I said ‘....ONE END of the lower tier’ which is very slightly more than 3000 seats..... which as I understand EPL rules is the number you have to give to opposition supporters.

I did not say, or mean, ALL of the lower tier!!! I assumed that saying ONE END may be enough for people to realise I meant only 1/2 so for this I have possibly caused you to be confused. Sorry about that!
Main thing is..... we’re all on the same side and can look forward to more voices behind our heroes.
YNWA.


[You may have an iPhone but you are still using the free version of Tapatalk and spamming us with that knowledge]

[ScottishKopite]

If you check (which I have just done) I said ‘....ONE END of the lower tier’ which is very slightly more than 3000 seats..... which as I understand EPL rules is the number you have to give to opposition supporters.

I did not say, or mean, ALL of the lower tier!!! I assumed that saying ONE END may be enough for people to realise I meant only 1/2 so for this I have possibly caused you to be confused. Sorry about that!
Main thing is..... we’re all on the same side and can look forward to more voices behind our heroes.
YNWA.


[You may have an iPhone but you are still using the free version of Tapatalk and spamming us with that knowledge]

take no notice mate I knew what you were meaning

[kaesarsosei]

Don't understand the amount of people asking "what's next?" when the ARE hasn't even been approved yet, and when it has been long established:

1) Behind Kenny stand is a row of privately owned houses = absolutely no room for expansion.
2) Kop backs onto a major road - even getting approval to disrupt that for months/years would be difficult never mind having it closed off or re-routed completely
3) City/council have spoken of 60k-ish being the maximum in terms of public access to and from the stadium on match-day.

Given those 3 facts there is less than 0.1% chance of any major work on the Kenny or Kop in the next 20+ years IMO.

What is realistic is the prospect of safe-standing being introduced at some point which for the Kop might add an extra 3k capacity (can't see it making any sense in the Kenny or Main) - however even that runs into point 3 above.

Personally I think 61k is fine and if we did get to 64-65k through safe-standing at some point that would be absolutely perfect.

[BaZ87]

Don't understand the amount of people asking "what's next?" when the ARE hasn't even been approved yet.....Given those 3 facts there is less than 0.1% chance of any major work on the Kenny or Kop in the next 20+ years IMO.

I was thinking the same. I read the thread on Skyscrapercity and the guys on there have already started discussing plans to take the capacity over 80k.

On your point about it being 20+ years before further work may happen - to put that into perspective, by the time the Annie Rd is complete, it would have been close to 12 years (if not longer) from FSG's takeover and this process beginning. These things take time and you'd imagine the club are already looking at possible future areas of expansion, if and when it makes sense for them to carry them out.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Don't understand the amount of people asking "what's next?" when the ARE hasn't even been approved yet, and when it has been long established:

1) Behind Kenny stand is a row of privately owned houses = absolutely no room for expansion.
2) Kop backs onto a major road - even getting approval to disrupt that for months/years would be difficult never mind having it closed off or re-routed completely
3) City/council have spoken of 60k-ish being the maximum in terms of public access to and from the stadium on match-day.

Given those 3 facts there is less than 0.1% chance of any major work on the Kenny or Kop in the next 20+ years IMO.

What is realistic is the prospect of safe-standing being introduced at some point which for the Kop might add an extra 3k capacity (can't see it making any sense in the Kenny or Main) - however even that runs into point 3 above.

Personally I think 61k is fine and if we did get to 64-65k through safe-standing at some point that would be absolutely perfect.

20yrs is a bit of a stretch,I think that the ARE will be it for FSG but it'll be part of their presentation when sell.

[Son of Spion]

Don't understand the amount of people asking "what's next?" when the ARE hasn't even been approved yet, and when it has been long established:

1) Behind Kenny stand is a row of privately owned houses = absolutely no room for expansion.
2) Kop backs onto a major road - even getting approval to disrupt that for months/years would be difficult never mind having it closed off or re-routed completely
3) City/council have spoken of 60k-ish being the maximum in terms of public access to and from the stadium on match-day.

Given those 3 facts there is less than 0.1% chance of any major work on the Kenny or Kop in the next 20+ years IMO.

What is realistic is the prospect of safe-standing being introduced at some point which for the Kop might add an extra 3k capacity (can't see it making any sense in the Kenny or Main) - however even that runs into point 3 above.

Personally I think 61k is fine and if we did get to 64-65k through safe-standing at some point that would be absolutely perfect.

A lot of people want bigger, better, faster, more. It's the way of the modern world really.

My purely personal opinion based on nothing in particular is that if we get the ARE done, that will be it for quite some time. I'd love to see us up to the 65,000 - 70,000 mark, but I don't think this will happen given that the Sir Kenneth and the Kop are currently landlocked. I know that can change, but I'm not sure it's something the current owners would pursue further.

I could be totally wrong, of course.

[The Lord Admiral]

Don't understand the amount of people asking "what's next?" when the ARE hasn't even been approved yet, and when it has been long established:

1) Behind Kenny stand is a row of privately owned houses = absolutely no room for expansion.
2) Kop backs onto a major road - even getting approval to disrupt that for months/years would be difficult never mind having it closed off or re-routed completely
3) City/council have spoken of 60k-ish being the maximum in terms of public access to and from the stadium on match-day.

Given those 3 facts there is less than 0.1% chance of any major work on the Kenny or Kop in the next 20+ years IMO.

Just to play devil's advocate to yours and Sons posts;

1) I haven't counted the houses that would need to be repossessed to mirror the Main Stand, it'd be at least a road and a half. But let's say it is 100, and at 100K each. That's 10m. There's talk the club already owns some of them. That's not an outrageous about of money in modern football.
2) The plans for the high street, approved by the council, have already sought to reduce the flow of traffic via the WBR. None of the planned new buildings around the WBR, the 'new high street' as it was branded have appeared yet, nor has the hotel. There must be significant traffic and transport management plans for the the area in the offing. I don't think downgrading or even re-routing the WBR is too wild. If it is part of an integrated plan to revive the area, who know.

In the interests of balance, you do have the new houses there, and as stated the club shop (and the Albert). Especially the new houses pose a problem in terms of PR and it'd be a carappy thing to do to people who have bought them.

3) I haven't seen that 60k ish figure since the Moores and Parry days, in fact I think someone on here said they'd seen something that suggested 65-70k would be manageable with the current transport/traffic infrastructure. While i don't think that is true myself, IF there is a significant transport infrastructure upgrade, a couple of stations/trams/road widening/park and ride/better organised buses, then surely the conversation changes.

I don't necessarily buy the above, but the Deloitte report into the value/economics the club brings into the City, provide leverage for the club when dealing with the council, and politicians. If the club are going to entertain safe standing in any part of the ground, then there surely needs to be the infrastructure.

I don't think the conversation on any of the above will begin until the ARE is finished. But I think it will be sooner than 20 years.

[CraigDS]

1. I don’t think the club own any on that side of the ground. They did own all of Skerries (the side that backed into the stadium) but sold them for £1 each so they could be rdeveloped. Also £100k assumes you don’t get some holding the club to randsom and demanding a lot lot more. It’s not like the council would use CPOs on streets that are in good condition as they are.

2. There is the issue of a church and some other buildings which would cause a massive issue, not just the road needing moving. It would be such a big ask (and cost) and not sure how much backing it would get from the council and club for that matter.

[The Lord Admiral]

1. I don’t think the club own any on that side of the ground. They did own all of Skerries (the side that backed into the stadium) but sold them for £1 each so they could be rdeveloped. Also £100k assumes you don’t get some holding the club to randsom and demanding a lot lot more. It’s not like the council would use CPOs on streets that are in good condition as they are.

2. There is the issue of a church and some other buildings which would cause a massive issue, not just the road needing moving. It would be such a big ask (and cost) and not sure how much backing it would get from the council and club for that matter.

Fair points Craig. There's a few different stories about the Skerries, difficult to know. I'm not sure about the CPO, did they use one at all for the Main? I'm not sure if the condition of the houses will come into it, they'd surely argue the economic benefit to the area point.

There were rumours that the Church was open to moving a while back, not sure if that was tittle tattle.

At the end of the day, if there's the will, I could see something happening. It's not without difficulty though. The new ARE will dwarf the Kop and the narrative about working class fans being left out of the modern game will be very visible. 

[TepidT2O]

Even if the club owned all these houses, there’s the issue of how you extend the stand without having a serious impact on capacity for quite sometime.

It’s not really like the main stand or Annie road where you can just build up and behind and then join the two bits up, you’d be taking about starting from scratch

[Jonny-B]

Fair points Craig. There's a few different stories about the Skerries, difficult to know. I'm not sure about the CPO, did they use one at all for the Main? I'm not sure if the condition of the houses will come into it, they'd surely argue the economic benefit to the area point.

There were rumours that the Church was open to moving a while back, not sure if that was tittle tattle.

At the end of the day, if there's the will, I could see something happening. It's not without difficulty though. The new ARE will dwarf the Kop and the narrative about working class fans being left out of the modern game will be very visible. 

It's not difficult to know about the Skerries road. The club don't own any of the houses and they're all in private ownership as Craig says.

[kaesarsosei]

Even if the club owned all these houses, there’s the issue of how you extend the stand without having a serious impact on capacity for quite sometime.

It’s not really like the main stand or Annie road where you can just build up and behind and then join the two bits up, you’d be taking about starting from scratch

This is a good point because we know the existing seats in the lower Kenny are well under regulation space, so if anything we are getting more bang for our buck in terms of capacity there. Unless I am mistaken and it would actually be possible to knock down the upper Kenny and rebuild it in the same style as the Main. But even doing that, you are only getting at most an extra 5k seats right? And I doubt if the corporate gains would be enough of an increase either (when you think that the Main Stand expansion basically added all that from scratch as opposed to replacing what is existing in the Kenny already).

I just don't see any world where it makes sense to do anything with the Kenny.