Topic: Curtis Jones

[jepovic]

Jesus christ the reactions from some fans. Jones is a great talent.
His role as CM is more complicated than Fodens or even Trents. Players on all sides. Experience really helps as CM, and it will take some time before he gets that.

I think he will be a great player. Great control, passing and shooting. Unlike Harvey,  he also has a bit of size which helps.
Much rather see him play than Ox for instance, since he will only get better.

Were missing three of our top 4 midfielders, plus Harvey, and yes it matters. We have bad luck with injuries clustering in the same part of the team

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Were you there yesterday mate?

I didn't hear a peep targeting Jones at the ground.....

I was yeah, ST.

I didn't hear anyone having a go at him during the game no, but the Kop was like a morgue. No passion or singing or anything yesterday when the lads (especially second half) could have done with a lift.

[mrantarctica]

Limited maybe - but I have his whole body of work in mind and not just this game in isolation. What is he particularly good at and does he fit the mould of an archetypal Klopp CM or forward? He has the turning circle and acceleration of Per Mertesacker. I don’t think so but here’s hoping I’m wrong.

Well I guess we'll just agree to disagree. I think the verdict on Curtis isn't written yet and there's absolutely no sensible reason why one would to write one right now as he's just 20 and barely played 1 season of top flight football. I also think that we don't really know what Klopps instructions for him are, and what he expects him to do. This means that it's pretty difficult to appraise whether he's sticking to the script and carrying out his necessary tasks at all.

I don't think Klopp has any particular designs on having a specific type of player. One of the things that has made Klopp a great manager is that he's taken many different types of players and found ways to accomodate their unique skillsets into the teams he shapes. I think the players need to have the raw ingredients of athleticism and work rate, technical ability and game intelligence in order to thrive under Klopp.

I think the comparison with Per Mertesacker is pretty inaccurate as well.

[JackWard33]

Assessing his level after he’s come back from injury and played 2 90s in 4 days seems a bit silly but have at it

[Fiasco]

Take a look at Adam Lallana who is also a player very pleasing to watch. But he wasn't a vital part of our midfield for doing a Cruyff turn here and there. He had incredible work rate, was a pressing machine, while also being the most creative player among our CMs, and he scored goals as well. Until Curtis starts to have actual contributions like that can we say he's going to be a star at Anfield.

Lallana's time here was underwhelming on the whole. I've got a lot of time for him but you've described him as something that he often wasn't when in a red shirt. He could do all of that, but I think you've overplayed him a bit there. I remember plenty on here said he was our player of the season one year but in that year during a period from December until April he didn't provide a single goal or a assist.

I think people like the idea of a peak Lallana more than what the reality was. Good player, had plenty of good attributes but didn't (or couldn't because of injuries) show it enough for us. I'd fucking bite your arm off for a midfielder like you thought Lallana was for us.

[MonsLibpool]

I find it a bit weird that people on here are willing to make a 20-year old a scapegoat but the moment their favorite player is criticized, they get mad.

[SamLad]

Jesus christ the reactions from some fans. Jones is a great talent.
His role as CM is more complicated than Fodens or even Trents. Players on all sides. Experience really helps as CM, and it will take some time before he gets that.

excellent point.

[newterp]

Limited maybe - but I have his whole body of work in mind and not just this game in isolation. What is he particularly good at and does he fit the mould of an archetypal Klopp CM or forward? He has the turning circle and acceleration of Per Mertesacker. I don’t think so but here’s hoping I’m wrong.

your takes post this game have been abysmal. well, worse than usual. the statement above is at least as much bullshit as it us utter garbage.

[FowlerLegend]

Jesus christ the reactions from some fans. Jones is a great talent.
His role as CM is more complicated than Fodens or even Trents. Players on all sides. Experience really helps as CM, and it will take some time before he gets that.

I think he will be a great player. Great control, passing and shooting. Unlike Harvey,  he also has a bit of size which helps.
Much rather see him play than Ox for instance, since he will only get better.

Were missing three of our top 4 midfielders, plus Harvey, and yes it matters. We have bad luck with injuries clustering in the same part of the team

He is, Elliott too.
Don't think you can say we have had bad luck with injuries apart from Elliott. We play a style that expects a lot of its midfielders and have a number of players that are susceptible to injury.

[So… Howard Philips]

I think the comparison with Per Mertesacker is pretty inaccurate as well.

I think the comparison with Per Mertsacker is fucking insulting.

[Robinred]

Limited maybe - but I have his whole body of work in mind and not just this game in isolation. What is he particularly good at and does he fit the mould of an archetypal Klopp CM or forward? He has the turning circle and acceleration of Per Mertesacker. I don’t think so but here’s hoping I’m wrong.

I think it’s quite brave to post an opinion that’s not popular, and carries the risk of being shot down in flames.

The debates about individual players will always be with us, and we will all value and elevate certain ‘favourite’ players’ assets and strengths in our overall estimation, whilst waiting for unfavoured players to cock up so we can confirm our bias - it’s human nature.

But I think it’s ridiculous to post something as daft as this.

[Coolie High]

There’s like two posters on here not too positive in their views in Jones and like a dozen more bemoaning are fans as if I isn’t a minority even in this thread, you’ll always have one or two who don’t rate players no big deal. Most of us know Jones is a big talent regardless.

[daggerdoo]

I think it’s quite brave to post an opinion that’s not popular, and carries the risk of being shot down in flames.

The debates about individual players will always be with us, and we will all value and elevate certain ‘favourite’ players’ assets and strengths in our overall estimation, whilst waiting for unfavoured players to cock up so we can confirm our bias - it’s human nature.

But I think it’s ridiculous to post something as daft as this.

Shouldn't we be educating ourselves to think differently though. It's always a better debate without the bias, and we get that on here quite a lot, the sensible stuff. The other stuff is funny discussions, adds to the entertainment

[bornandbRED]

I think it’s quite brave to post an opinion that’s not popular, and carries the risk of being shot down in flames.

The debates about individual players will always be with us, and we will all value and elevate certain ‘favourite’ players’ assets and strengths in our overall estimation, whilst waiting for unfavoured players to cock up so we can confirm our bias - it’s human nature.

But I think it’s ridiculous to post something as daft as this.

I think he’s a tidy player but I think the side suffers with him in it and he doesn’t have any obvious redeeming attributes. Nor does he share the common thread which binds 90% of Klopp midfielders, which is physicality.

Accept that he’s basically 6th choice and 20 so it feels harsh, and he isn’t necessarily going to be a first teamer once everyone’s fit but… that’s the way the cookie crumbles when you are trying to compete for a title against behemoths like City and Chelsea and he’s shown numerous flaws in recent games, that have cost us and were apparent last year too.

It’s not a personal thing but he’s a weak link in the side right now for me.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Or accept that he's just 20yrs old and already ahead of Ox.

[jepovic]

This is not a criticism and certainly not based on the last game,  but I've always felt Curtis is a bit overrated among our fans due to his "looking nice on the eyes" style of play.

Sure he can shift his body to make space and have tidy footwork, but at the end of the day it's the actual contributions that matter. Does he press and win the ball, does he beat his man, can he pull off some throughballs, does he create chances or score goals etc. The truth is, he isn't doing any of those things particularly well. At the moment, he's just a young CM with decent work rate, looking nice and confident on the ball, and can rotate the ball around the pitch quite well.

Take a look at Adam Lallana who is also a player very pleasing to watch. But he wasn't a vital part of our midfield for doing a Cruyff turn here and there. He had incredible work rate, was a pressing machine, while also being the most creative player among our CMs, and he scored goals as well. Until Curtis starts to have actual contributions like that can we say he's going to be a star at Anfield.

I think Lallana was exactly what you criticize, easy on the eye and a nice guy, but little end product. He had one decent season, which wasn't even that great, and then basically nothing. I think Jones will have a better career.

[Chris~]

I think he’s a tidy player but I think the side suffers with him in it and he doesn’t have any obvious redeeming attributes. Nor does he share the common thread which binds 90% of Klopp midfielders, which is physicality.

Accept that he’s basically 6th choice and 20 so it feels harsh, and he isn’t necessarily going to be a first teamer once everyone’s fit but… that’s the way the cookie crumbles when you are trying to compete for a title against behemoths like City and Chelsea and he’s shown numerous flaws in recent games, that have cost us and were apparent last year too.

It’s not a personal thing but he’s a weak link in the side right now for me.

In which games has he cost us?

[newterp]

In which games has he cost us?

None. But watch the connect the dots effort to do so.

[bornandbRED]

In which games has he cost us?

Brighton Brentford (yes he scored too) Man City off the top of my head. He’s walked past for the first Man City goal and he’s standing still watching KDB for the second.

Going back to last season, West Brom immediately springs to mind and he plays throughout the run of crap results until Klopp seemingly takes him underground towards the end of season once others were fit again.

7 goals conceded in those 3 PL games he starts this year. 1 conceded in the rest.

Of course it’s a team game so not just his fault, but we’ve not actually won a league game he’s started.

Believe it or not I actually rate him and think he’s talented… but he’s miles off Gini whose role he’s effectively being asked to perform.

[El Lobo]

Brighton Brentford (yes he scored too) Man City off the top of my head. He’s walked past for the first Man City goal and he’s standing still watching KDB for the second.

Going back to last season, West Brom immediately springs to mind and he plays throughout the run of crap results until Klopp seemingly takes him underground towards the end of season once others were fit again.

7 goals conceded in those 3 PL games he starts this year. 1 conceded in the rest.

Of course it’s a team game so not just his fault, but I believe we’ve never actually won a league game he’s started.

Believe it or not I actually rate him and think he’s talented… but he’s miles off Gini whose role he’s effectively being asked to perform.

This is more genius than you'll ever know

Tremendous stuff. We've won plenty of league games that he's started FYI. Including West Brom

[RainbowFlick]

he's a quality player but he's not made to be covering holes in the midfield like Gini was. he is at his best when he's closer to the front 3 imo.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Brighton Brentford (yes he scored too) Man City off the top of my head. He’s walked past for the first Man City goal and he’s standing still watching KDB for the second.

Going back to last season, West Brom immediately springs to mind and he plays throughout the run of crap results until Klopp seemingly takes him underground towards the end of season once others were fit again.

7 goals conceded in those 3 PL games he starts this year. 1 conceded in the rest.

Of course it’s a team game so not just his fault, but I believe we’ve never actually won a league game he’s started.

Believe it or not I actually rate him and think he’s talented… but he’s miles off Gini whose role he’s effectively being asked to perform.

So basically he was in the team in those games so you've decided to blame him for the goals even if they're nothing to do with him.

[bornandbRED]

This is more genius than you'll ever know

Tremendous stuff. We've won plenty of league games that he's started FYI. Including West Brom

I’m not trying to be a genius you absolute odd ball of a poster.

Do you contribute anything to threads other than emojis and shit attempts at condescension? Your opinion, maybe? It’s the internet mate, stop trying to behave like billy big bollocks.

Also - I meant this year.

[El Lobo]

I’m not trying to be a genius you absolute odd ball of a poster.

Do you contribute anything to threads other than emojis and shit attempts at condescension? Your opinion, maybe? It’s the internet mate, stop trying to behave like billy big bollocks.


Also - I meant this year.

Mainly, but sometimes just to pop in a little fact

If you're going to slag off a kid, do the basic research first. West Brom....but Leicester, West Ham, Wolves, Spurs, Sheffield United. Its honestly not difficult to just google 'Curtis Jones Liverpool starts'. That way, even if what you're posting is bang out of order you still don't look like an absolute plonker.

Oh you meant this year? So....West Brom again This season for the hat-trick?

[bornandbRED]

Mainly, but sometimes just to pop in a little fact

If you're going to slag off a kid, do the basic research first. West Brom....but Leicester, West Ham, Wolves, Spurs, Sheffield United. Its honestly not difficult to just google 'Curtis Jones Liverpool starts'. That way, even if what you're posting is bang out of order you still don't look like an absolutely plonker.

It’s great when someone responds with the utmost confidence to something they’ve completely misunderstood.

Especially clever clogs like this bloke.

[Chris~]

Brighton Brentford (yes he scored too) Man City off the top of my head. He’s walked past for the first Man City goal and he’s standing still watching KDB for the second.

Going back to last season, West Brom immediately springs to mind and he plays throughout the run of crap results until Klopp seemingly takes him underground towards the end of season once others were fit again.

7 goals conceded in those 3 PL games he starts this year. 1 conceded in the rest.

Of course it’s a team game so not just his fault, but I believe we’ve never actually won a league game he’s started.

I mean we've conceded 4 in 2 champions league games he's not been on the pitch for and 1 with him on it if we're going on the small sample size blame game. Or I could pick out any number of players making errors leading to goals conceded, as is the case for most goals (Fabinho shitting the bed trying to clear the first against Brentford, whatever our shape was by just about everyone for their third for example) The first City goal is him chasing back and Fabinho kind of just letting Jesus walk past as well. On the second hes tracking back and gets wrong footed on the deflected cross if he stands back and it goes through he'd be blamed for not trying to block that space

Also putting us in the lead, getting subbed off when we're winning and then saying he cost us in that game is more than a bit unfair I'd say.

Also he got injured and was out following that last year.

And we've won games he's started in numerous competitions.

I mean I'm not going to do it, but picking out Jones for a bad run of games last season when we had known issues but not Wijnaldum who'll have played I'm guessing loads more minutes in those ? Maybe it's just not Jones's fault

[El Lobo]

It’s great when someone responds with the utmost confidence to something they’ve completely misunderstood.

Especially clever clogs like this bloke.

I'm not sure there's really a way to misunderstand someone saying 'we’ve never actually won a league game he’s started.'

You posted something particularly stupid whilst trying to slag off one of our youngsters. Take the loss, move on. It happens to the best of us.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

It’s great when someone responds with the utmost confidence to something they’ve completely misunderstood.

Especially clever clogs like this bloke.

Yeah we it's not so great when people dig into one of our young stars.

[bornandbRED]

I'm not sure there's really a way to misunderstand someone saying 'we’ve never actually won a league game he’s started.'

You posted something particularly stupid whilst trying to slag off one of our youngsters. Take the loss, move on. It happens to the best of us.

When your attempt at being smarmy fails and now you look like an even bigger bellend. It’s pretty clear what I meant. Well done though.

Not sure how an objective discussion about a player who I’ve repeatedly said is a good player is at all slagging him off unless you’re a complete dope. This same rule seemingly doesn’t apply in many other player threads (Ox or Henderson for example).

[El Lobo]

When your attempt at being smarmy fails and now you look like an even bigger bellend. It’s pretty clear what I meant. Well done though.

Not sure how an objective discussion about a player who I’ve repeatedly said is a good player is at all slagging him off unless you’re a complete dope. This same rule seemingly doesn’t apply in many other player threads (Ox or Henderson for example).

You said we'd never won a league game he's started. We have. You then said 'Oh no I obviously meant this year'.....which we still have If you're wanting to use stats to slag off a youngster during a specific time period, you're best to tell everyone what time period you mean. I suspect what actually happened was....you thought we'd never won a league game that he'd started.

As for objective.....

He doesn’t have any intensity to his game, on or off the ball. It’s cost us countless times this and last season.

Reminds me of Joe Allen - pass sideways and scuttle across the pitch and into half arsed challenges.

But if you want a future at the club you have to be able to break into that 14. There’s a clear drop off with Jones. Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s at Villa within two years. Definitely helps him a lot that he’s from Liverpool.

Limited maybe - but I have his whole body of work in mind and not just this game in isolation. What is he particularly good at and does he fit the mould of an archetypal Klopp CM or forward? He has the turning circle and acceleration of Per Mertesacker. I don’t think so but here’s hoping I’m wrong.

I mean....fucking hell.

If you're going to succinctly criticise one of our players you'll probably get a fair few agreeing with you, it happens. The Henderson thread (the old one) had loads of it, a number of excellent posters criticising him back in the day. If you're just going to lay into a kid, compare him to lumoxy Germany CBs and crap Welsh midfielders, write him off at the age of 20, use stats which fall down with the most basic of googling skills and then throw a hissy kit when you get called out on it, then you're going to look particularly Baldricky.

[Bobsackamano]

Brighton Brentford (yes he scored too) Man City off the top of my head. He’s walked past for the first Man City goal and he’s standing still watching KDB for the second.

Going back to last season, West Brom immediately springs to mind and he plays throughout the run of crap results until Klopp seemingly takes him underground towards the end of season once others were fit again.

7 goals conceded in those 3 PL games he starts this year. 1 conceded in the rest.

Of course it’s a team game so not just his fault, but we’ve not actually won a league game he’s started.

Believe it or not I actually rate him and think he’s talented… but he’s miles off Gini whose role he’s effectively being asked to perform.

Just to clear up that we have won when he has started. Since the start of last season the league games he has started read

W 6
D 6
L 4

The games he hasn't started

W 20
D 7
L 5

[Andy82lfc]

Just to clear up that we have won when he has started. Since the start of last season the league games he has started read

W 6
D 6
L 4

The games he hasn't started

W 20
D 7
L 5

Is that right? Almost 50% of all games we lose he starts them? Or am I reading that wrong?

[Bobsackamano]

Is that right? Almost 50% of all games we lose he starts them? Or am I reading that wrong?

He has started 16 games, won 6, drawn 6, lost 4
He has not started 32 games, won 20, drawn 7, lost 5

[El Lobo]

Is that right? Almost 50% of all games we lose he starts them? Or am I reading that wrong?

In the league.

The four games he 'lost' last season were:

Man City at home (subbed off at 1-1)
Leicester away (subbed off winning 1-0)
Everton at home (subbed off losing 1-0)
Chelsea at home (subbed off losing 1-0).

If we'd maintained the results we had when he was subbed off in those four games, we'd have finished second. So....not quite sure it really makes much of a valid point about how rubbish he is.

[Red-Soldier]

I think some people have too much time on their hands.  I could probably copy and paste that in a few places.

[Andy82lfc]

He has started 16 games, won 6, drawn 6, lost 4
He has not started 32 games, won 20, drawn 7, lost 5

So out of the last 9 games we lost he started 4 of them? My head melts with maths 

[Bobsackamano]

So out of the last 9 games we lost he started 4 of them? My head melts with maths 

Yes that's correct and he started in 1/3 of games. It's probably not wise to break down statistics too much however I have a background in data analysis and often look into trends for gambling purposes. It could be statistical anomalies at play but I'll avoid placing bets involving Liverpool if Jones starts until the trend starts to reverse.

[Hazell]

Is that right? Almost 50% of all games we lose he starts them? Or am I reading that wrong?

50% of the time, we lose every time.

[RyanBabel19]

How the fuck is Curtis Jones being pointed at for our losses

[Andy82lfc]

50% of the time, we lose every time.