Topic: General political discussion Part II

[filopastry]

The example they quote above about Synergy Vision's experience with a 4 day working week is interesting, because it does sound like many of the advantages are around staff retention and recruitment (and probably just feeling like you enjoy working for a nice company which appreciates you and is reducing your working days).

A lot of those advantages for the company will pretty much disappear if a 4 day week is legislated for by a new government and is the new normal for all UK based companies, suddenly it is irrelevant for recruitment and retention as any other company offers the same benefit, and it isn't even a sign of a progressive company anymore as the govt has forced your employer to do it.

To be honest there are times in my year/month where I could not come close to doing my core job if  I was restricted to a 4 day 32 hour week, and times when I could, but that is already reflected in my benefits anyway as we are all entitled to unlimited holiday anyway (within reason!). In short I don't want anyone messing things up for me by restricting and enforcing a 32 hour week, as it would just leave my job and many others in my organisation being offshored (realistically as a European head office we don't need to be based in the UK)

[Red-Soldier]

The example they quote above about Synergy Vision's experience with a 4 day working week is interesting, because it does sound like many of the advantages are around staff retention and recruitment (and probably just feeling like you enjoy working for a nice company which appreciates you and is reducing your working days).

A lot of those advantages for the company will pretty much disappear if a 4 day week is legislated for by a new government and is the new normal for all UK based companies, suddenly it is irrelevant for recruitment and retention as any other company offers the same benefit, and it isn't even a sign of a progressive company anymore as the govt has forced your employer to do it.

That's a really good point.

I think the main conclusions are sound in the report, and that it shouldn't really become government policy (yet), at least not such a rigid figure anyway.

[classycarra]

That's a really good point.

I think the main conclusions are sound in the report, and that it shouldn't really become government policy (yet), at least not such a rigid figure anyway.

Beat me to it. Agreed, spot on point.

[Red-Soldier]

Beat me to it. Agreed, spot on point.

[ShakaHislop]

Mike Hill: Sex harassment claim investigated by Labour

A North East Labour MP has had the whip withdrawn and his party membership suspended after an allegation of sexual harassment.

Mike Hill has been the MP for Hartlepool since the snap elections in 2017.

Labour confirmed it was investigating an allegation of sexual harassment, but declined to go into detail.

Mr Hill, 56, said he "completely rejects" the allegations and was co-operating with the investigation.

A Labour Party spokesman said: "The Labour Party takes all complaints of sexual harassment extremely seriously, which are fully investigated and any appropriate disciplinary action taken in line with the Party's rules and procedures.

"We are determined to challenge and overturn sexual harassment and misogyny within politics and across society as a whole."

The party said it operated a helpline dedicated to sexual harassment allegations. It said it could not comment on individual complaints.

Mr Hill, a former union representative, said his office in Hartlepool "remained open and operating normally for any casework or constituency matters".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-49795248

[TepidT2O]

A labour MP writes...

[ShakaHislop]

A labour MP writes...

Why should anyone listen to Labour MPs who merely complain via Tweet or as a "anonymous source" rather than take any meaningful action? Fucking organise yourselves.

[TepidT2O]

Why should anyone listen to Labour MPs who merely complain via Tweet or as a "anonymous source" rather than take any meaningful action?

Because to say this in public who’d lead to deselection


The way where you can exert power would be to get elected, then you could actually have power.

[ShakaHislop]

Because to say this in public who’d lead to deselection


The way where you can exert power would be to get elected, then you could actually have power.

That's far from a guarantee. You organise with the other MPs, show some courage for once and inspire moderate Labour supporters/voters to join as members to not only prevent deselection, but to wrestle back control of the party by winning the likes of NEC elections.

Alternatively, you carry on doing nothing but send angry Tweets and Whatsapp messages to journalists and nothing changes for the better. You stay and don't fight.

Not sure what you mean with your 2nd sentence? Do you mean get elected to government? So campaign for the policies you don't believe in, and the man you don't think is up to the job?

[TepidT2O]

I’m rather surprised by public reaction to the plans to ‘abolish’ private schools.

50% disapprove and less than 25% approve... I thought it would be a vote winner myself.. I’m slightly surprised

[TepidT2O]

That's far from a guarantee. You organise with the other MPs, show some courage for once and inspire moderate Labour supporters/voters to join as members to not only prevent deselection, but to wrestle back control of the party by winning the likes of NEC elections.

Alternatively, you carry on doing nothing but send angry Tweets and Whatsapp messages to journalists and nothing changes for the better. You stay and don't fight.

Not sure what you mean with your 2nd sentence? Do you mean get elected to government? So campaign for the policies you don't believe in, and the man you don't think is up to the job?

Yeah.  If you are in power you can actually get rid of him, or at least control the nutters.  As pm he would actually need the support of his MPs, they could simply form their own party and ignore him for 5 years and go ahead and form a government.

As such he would have to listen to them more.  It’s a bit counterintuitive. But being in power would give Corbyn less power over them.

The nutters control the party to such an extent that it’s possibly the only way to get power back

[Sangria]

I’m rather surprised by public reaction to the plans to ‘abolish’ private schools.

50% disapprove and less than 25% approve... I thought it would be a vote winner myself.. I’m slightly surprised

Reword it. Say that private schools produce people like Corbyn. Do you want any more Corbyns?

[ShakaHislop]

Yeah.  If you are in power you can actually get rid of him, or at least control the nutters.  As pm he would actually need the support of his MPs, they could simply form their own party and ignore him for 5 years and go ahead and form a government.

As such he would have to listen to them more.  It’s a bit counterintuitive. But being in power would give Corbyn less power over them.

The nutters control the party to such an extent that it’s possibly the only way to get power back

Which they could do now, and could have done at any point over the past 4 years.

I don't see why he would listen to them more. They have already proven they don't have the bottle to rise up against him even in opposition. Are they really going to upset the gravy train now that they're back in power?

Even if they do break away and attempt to form a government, if Corbyn has enough people that stick by him, he could join forces with the Tories to vote no confidence in any such government out of spite.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Reword it. Say that private schools produce people like Corbyn. Do you want any more Corbyns?

 

[Zeb]

I’m rather surprised by public reaction to the plans to ‘abolish’ private schools.

50% disapprove and less than 25% approve... I thought it would be a vote winner myself.. I’m slightly surprised

Was it Chirac who wanted to abolish them in France? Was Mitterand who wanted to abolish them in France. Ended up with half his voters on the march with the right wing against the proposals. Right wing framed it as 'parental choice'. Would think a lot of people are against anything which gives someone else's kids a headstart in life. Which isn't the same thing as wanting to rule out giving their own kids a headstart on the off-chance they're ever in a position to do it... Not looking at you Diane. Nope. Not doing it.

[west_london_red]

I’m rather surprised by public reaction to the plans to ‘abolish’ private schools.

50% disapprove and less than 25% approve... I thought it would be a vote winner myself.. I’m slightly surprised

I would much rather the playing field be levelled in terms of applying for university places and jobs for us who went to state comps rather then just close down or nationalise private schools. If some parents want to throw thousands of pounds at their kids education that’s fine by me, just leaves more money to spend on the rest of us.

[stevo7]

I would much rather the playing field be levelled in terms of applying for university places and jobs for us who went to state comps rather then just close down or nationalise private schools. If some parents want to throw thousands of pounds at their kids education that’s fine by me, just leaves more money to spend on the rest of us.

Yes - but take away their charitable status and tax breaks for private education. People should have a choice if they want to pay. But let's close the loopholes.

[Shankly998]

Yes - but take away their charitable status and tax breaks for private education. People should have a choice if they want to pay. But let's close the loopholes.

Yes I agree I don't know why this isn't the policy. That would be popular policy, outright nationalizing them is a step too far.

[No666]

Take away the charitable status and ensure the VAT paid goes directly to state schools.

[Alan_X]

That's far from a guarantee. You organise with the other MPs, show some courage for once and inspire moderate Labour supporters/voters to join as members to not only prevent deselection, but to wrestle back control of the party by winning the likes of NEC elections.

Alternatively, you carry on doing nothing but send angry Tweets and Whatsapp messages to journalists and nothing changes for the better. You stay and don't fight.

Not sure what you mean with your 2nd sentence? Do you mean get elected to government? So campaign for the policies you don't believe in, and the man you don't think is up to the job?

I posted a link to the four part documentary about Labour's wilderness years and a young Jeremy Corbyn was featured along with a load of other sad fucks who would happily sit through endless meetings to get onto committees and then pick through the rule book.

Ordinary people simply don't behave like that. By changing the way members could join and by changing the voting system for the leader Labour fucked itself completely. There used to be a balance from the PLP who actually have to deal with the general public and have a sense of what will make a party electable. I left because in my mind the Labour Party is unfixable. The membership are now dominated by pricks who sing "Ooh Jeremy Corbyn" as they sell the party and the country down the river because blocking Brexit makes Jeremy sad. The PLP can do fuck all while the Corbynistas dominate the membership and McCluskey and his mates support Corbyn.

'Organise with other MPs' and you'll be hounded on Twitter, abused if you're a woman or one of the Jewish MPs left in the party and labelled a traitor, a Blairite, or a 'centrist'...

It's done with.

[TepidT2O]

Yes - but take away their charitable status and tax breaks for private education. People should have a choice if they want to pay. But let's close the loopholes.

Ironically Eton do loads for charity and loads for other schools in their area.

They could resonaably claim that they do earn their charitable status....

[No666]

They have their charitable status because they are non-profit making, not because they indulge in a bit of noblesse oblige to keep the peasants quiet.

[stevo7]

Ironically Eton do loads for charity and loads for other schools in their area.

They could resonaably claim that they do earn their charitable status....

Mate if my company had their charitable status & tax loopholes I could offer a bit more than 'a very limited amount' for charities in my locale due to profits. In fact I do I support charities - one in Liverpool, one in Africa & one nation wide. None are tax deductable, and I don't want them to be. I'm proud to support the charities.

[ShakaHislop]

I posted a link to the four part documentary about Labour's wilderness years and a young Jeremy Corbyn was featured along with a load of other sad fucks who would happily sit through endless meetings to get onto committees and then pick through the rule book.

Ordinary people simply don't behave like that. By changing the way members could join and by changing the voting system for the leader Labour fucked itself completely. There used to be a balance from the PLP who actually have to deal with the general public and have a sense of what will make a party electable. I left because in my mind the Labour Party is unfixable. The membership are now dominated by pricks who sing "Ooh Jeremy Corbyn" as they sell the party and the country down the river because blocking Brexit makes Jeremy sad. The PLP can do fuck all while the Corbynistas dominate the membership and McCluskey and his mates support Corbyn.

'Organise with other MPs' and you'll be hounded on Twitter, abused if you're a woman or one of the Jewish MPs left in the party and labelled a traitor, a Blairite, or a 'centrist'...

It's done with.

Yes, and that must be a horrible feeling but at the same time, isn't it more motivation to really take the fight to the people dishing out the abuse? Even if the plan, if they have any, among the MPs is to wait it out until Corbyn loses the next GE (which is a stance that deserves scorn, considering the Brexit-related consequences that could follow), they're going to have to stand up for themselves then to have any chance of avoiding a Corbyn groupie from taking the reins and if they do so, surely the abuse you describe comes anyway? Why delay the inevitable and not stand up now? Alternatively, they stay quiet in the wake of a GE defeat, let someone like Long-Bailey take over and then what? Wait for the 5th election loss in a row?

Yes, Labour MPs are in a difficult position (to a significant extent, of their own making) but nothing's going to change for them or the rest of us for as long as they continue with their current pattern of behaviour. Leave the party and start afresh (and no, they're not predestined to go the same way TIG/Change UK did) or lead the fight to recover the party from the sorry state most people know it's in, rather than make self-pitying Tweets about it.

[ShakaHislop]

I’m at left-wing Labour Represention Committee (whose president is John McDonnell) event, where the raffle prize is a signed copy of two Steve Bell cartoons that The Guardian refused to publish because they were feared to be potentially antisemitic....

On the panel were Jackie Walker and Chris Williamson, expelled and suspended (respectively) by the party in relation to antisemitism. Also present at the event was Jeremy Corbyn’s wife, Laura Alvarez.

https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1176211722408988675

[Red-Soldier]

https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1176211722408988675

It's not a good look is it.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

I’m rather surprised by public reaction to the plans to ‘abolish’ private schools.

50% disapprove and less than 25% approve... I thought it would be a vote winner myself.. I’m slightly surprised

the problem is you’d need billions to pay for those kids in private education, state schools become even more overcrowded, plus I think it would only apply in England due to devolution. Instead of their class war bullshit just commit to improving state schools so better off people decide to send their kids there instead

Reword it. Say that private schools produce people like Corbyn. Do you want any more Corbyns?

and Milne, Murray, blakeley, Schneider etc etc

https://twitter.com/BenKentish/status/1176211722408988675

is second prize lunch with George Galloway

[Venton]

Yes - but take away their charitable status and tax breaks for private education. People should have a choice if they want to pay. But let's close the loopholes.

Absolutely this. If you're going to allow them to give their own kids a leg up at least don't give them a tax break on it. Why Labour are trying to abolish them rather than that just shows how badly they read public opinion.

[TepidT2O]

Absolutely this. If you're going to allow them to give their own kids a leg up at least don't give them a tax break on it. Why Labour are trying to abolish them rather than that just shows how badly they read public opinion.

I’ve always thought that we should try to match the funding that private schools get. Well... the cheaper ones anyway..

That would inevitably drive away much of the private school market

[Venton]

I’ve always thought that we should try to match the funding that private schools get. Well... the cheaper ones anyway..

That would inevitably drive away much of the private school market

I can see that, although I still don't see why the better off should get tax breaks to give their own kids a break. Fair enough if you want to pay to give them a better education but why should I have to pay for that?

[TepidT2O]

I can see that, although I still don't see why the better off should get tax breaks to give their own kids a break. Fair enough if you want to pay to give them a better education but why should I have to pay for that?

True, but in the flip side why give the better off tax breaks by scrapping tuition fees?

On balance they will gain more than they pay out...

[Venton]

True, but in the flip side why give the better off tax breaks by scrapping tuition fees?

On balance they will gain more than they pay out...

That's not a flip side at all. Do you really need me to point out why?

[TepidT2O]

That's not a flip side at all. Do you really need me to point out why?

Err. Yes....

Scrapping tuition fees is a huge tax break to the middle classes.  Much better to provide very her out bursaries to those who need them

[Venton]

Err. Yes....

Scrapping tuition fees is a huge tax break to the middle classes.  Much better to provide very her out bursaries to those who need them

Ok.

In the first I'm giving tax breaks to better off people to give advantages to their own children against the less well off.

In the second I'm giving tax breaks to all kids to get a better education.

That's the first reason it's not a flip side. I also don't agree with free university education for all, which is the second reason.

[Antoine Lavoisier]

All this is a game. It shouldn't be, but it is. And the ironic thing is, those who go to these public schools are taught the rules, in one form or another, and how to play the game. The rest of us are playing catch up.

A policy to scrap public schools and to declare it openly - massive own goal. They must actually love Corbyn in a way.

[classycarra]

Classic bit of jew baiting at the Labour conference. Believe the term for the fuckwit thundercunts in the audience is gammons right?

https://twitter.com/AdamWagner1/status/1176245467593740288

So many c*nts among Labour's membership. Never really related to actively wanting to be a member of a party, until I saw Labour was being taken over anyway, but fucking hell I can imagine few things less appealing than wanting to be associated with the Jew baiters and horrible cabal of boring thick posh boys running the show

[Only Me]

Agree totally with closing charitable status/VAT loopholes, but the overall issue isn’t quite as straightforward as people make out.

My 2 kids both went private. We aren’t/weren’t rich; we took a decision based on the secondary provision where we lived. I went to a grammar school, but my kids didn’t have that opportunity.

So me and the Mrs worked hard, made sacrifices, and went down the private route.

We got no tax breaks, despite the fact that it cost the country zero to educate our kids. We’re not like the London elite who’s kids all go to Eton, Harrow etc. In fact, our kids school was just a normal one, very like the one I attended years ago.

I’ve got no particular affinity to the private sector-apart from my 2, none of my family ever went anywhere but state schools. But given the patchy, postcode lottery secondary provision available, you  shouldn’t remove choice from normal working people who are willing to make sacrifices to give their children a better chance-it’s not all about being “posh”; we certainly aren’t.

As per usual, the current Labour Party just promotes the politics of jealousy. Small minded extremist twats that they currently are.

[Antoine Lavoisier]

Classic bit of jew baiting at the Labour conference. Believe the term for the fuckwit thundercunts in the audience is gammons right?

https://twitter.com/AdamWagner1/status/1176245467593740288

So many c*nts among Labour's membership. Never really related to actively wanting to be a member of a party, until I saw Labour was being taken over anyway, but fucking hell I can imagine few things less appealing than wanting to be associated with the Jew baiters and horrible cabal of boring thick posh boys running the show

What do you mean "jew bating"? Sorry, I'm genuinely not being funny, just trying to understand?

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Agree totally with closing charitable status/VAT loopholes, but the overall issue isn’t quite as straightforward as people make out.

My 2 kids both went private. We aren’t/weren’t rich; we took a decision based on the secondary provision where we lived. I went to a grammar school, but my kids didn’t have that opportunity.

So me and the Mrs worked hard, made sacrifices, and went down the private route.

We got no tax breaks, despite the fact that it cost the country zero to educate our kids. We’re not like the London elite who’s kids all go to Eton, Harrow etc. In fact, our kids school was just a normal one, very like the one I attended years ago.

I’ve got no particular affinity to the private sector-apart from my 2, none of my family ever went anywhere but state schools. But given the patchy, postcode lottery secondary provision available, you  shouldn’t remove choice from normal working people who are willing to make sacrifices to give their children a better chance-it’s not all about being “posh”; we certainly aren’t.

As per usual, the current Labour Party just promotes the politics of jealousy. Small minded extremist twats that they currently are.

yup, I went to private school and I was from a fairly well off background but there were rich kids and also kids from families where both parents worked and gave up holidays to pay the fees, this ridiculous assumption that all who go to fee paying schools are minted is just plain wrong

[Antoine Lavoisier]

yup, I went to private school and I was from a fairly well off background but there were rich kids and also kids from families where both parents worked and gave up holidays to pay the fees, this ridiculous assumption that all who go to fee paying schools are minted is just plain wrong

Indeed it is, but do you think these places create an idea of "us and them"?