Topic: Preseason tour summer 2018 - sponsored by Findus (other products are available)

[BabuYagu]

Do you have a link to the website you got these from please babu?

I mentioned before to someone, they are data files from opta that has been aggregated. But the same data powers every other site that has stats and you can verify individual things in different places like the official PL site, squawka and others if you know how and where to look.

[SlowRap]

Sturridge just posted that he was playing in a new role called it the "sausage" role, official now we don't see him as a striker

[-Willo-]

To be fair to Migs he hasn't played with VVD much, who I believe is the main catalyst in our improved defensive displays

Yes, a different footballer standing 15 yards in front of you suddenly gives you a better ability to save near post shots, and catch the ball.

[BabuYagu]

Bit of a self fulfilling prophecy as well isn't it? Try fucking backing the lad rather than giving him dogs abuse for putting a picture of his cat online or dropping a plate at home in the kitchen.

YNWA seems a bit fucking selective for the majority of our spoilt entitled fanbase at the minute....

This is Karius biggest problem. Every keeper will have 2 or 3 moments that can be deemed an error probably per game. A moment of indecision/hesitation. A missed cross. Giving away the ball in your own half. Parrying a shot into danger. Not looking perfect when saving a shot. Closing eyes when being hit claiming a cross. Plus lots of other stuff that actually are big errors.

The target seems to now be for Karius to go through games in pre-season being perfect. This was also the target at the end of last season when he went 19 league games and european games up to the final, statistically made fewer mistakes than most keepers, but it doesn't batter as people don't watch them, don't care if they make mistakes and have lots of highlight reel saves to fall back on if they do.

He's set up to fail. Therefore fail he will. Just remains to be seen if it is spectacularly or not.

[Kopenhagen]

https://instagram.com/p/BlGEWTIh-MT/

Very interesting...

[-Willo-]

This is Karius biggest problem. Every keeper will have 2 or 3 moments that can be deemed an error probably per game. A moment of indecision/hesitation. A missed cross. Giving away the ball in your own half. Parrying a shot into danger. Not looking perfect when saving a shot. Closing eyes when being hit claiming a cross. Plus lots of other stuff that actually are big errors.

The target seems to now be for Karius to go through games in pre-season being perfect. This was also the target at the end of last season when he went 19 league games and european games up to the final, statistically made fewer mistakes than most keepers, but it doesn't batter as people don't watch them, don't care if they make mistakes and have lots of highlight reel saves to fall back on if they do.

He's set up to fail. Therefore fail he will. Just remains to be seen if it is spectacularly or not.

No it doesn't? It just requires him not to drop a harmless free kick into the path of somebody for a tap in?

How many 'moments' did he have in the game ALONGSIDE that balls up? Nobody spoke about them.


He also 'statistically' made fewer errors than most keepers, but who cares? If you have a pair of eyes you can see that he nearly cost us in every knockout game in our run to the final bar Porto. Why go off stats when the common sense rule can apply here.

He drops clanger after clanger in big games, and will continue to do so now, he's proven he can't handle pressure, so why will it change now there's MORE pressure on top of him?

[Living Legends]

Sturridge just posted that he was playing in a new role called it the "sausage" role, official now we don't see him as a striker

Wait till Capon see's this...#Sausages

 

[deFacto please, you bastards]

If you have a pair of eyes you can see that he nearly cost us in every knockout game in our run to the final bar Porto

What did he do against City?

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

No one expects him to be perfect, people just expect him to be able to catch a ball that is straight at him.

There is a difference between making mistakes that can be debated about, which I think Mignolet does a lot, and making mistakes that really should be fundamental for a goalkeeper.

Karius might not be making as many mistakes as Mignolet but his mistakes tend to be much more bizarre when they happen.

[Djozer]

What did he do against City?

Loads of bad stuff. He does it every game. It is known.

[BabuYagu]

To be fair to Migs he hasn't played with VVD much, who I believe is the main catalyst in our improved defensive displays

And to be fair to VVD, he isn't a miracle solution to goalkeepers.

Fraser Forster played with VVD in the first half of the season at Southampton. Alex McCarthy replaced him when VVD left.

Soton's numbers improved in line with Liverpool's with the switch. Both sides ended up with a keeper who dealt with a higher proportion of crosses, came off his line better, and had good short distribution so they weren't giving the ball away in front of their own goal so often. Therefore the number of shots being faced logically reduced.

[-Willo-]

What did he do against City?

Punches a nothing cross straight into a City player, which allows Sane to tap it in for a very harshly ruled out goal going into half time.

[Adeemo]

https://instagram.com/p/BlGEWTIh-MT/

Very interesting...

What position did he seem to be playing? Was it some sort of variation on a right-sided, inverted forward?

[CraigDS]

https://instagram.com/p/BlGEWTIh-MT/

Very interesting...

He should get off fucking social media, wasting his time thinking up jokes, and devote all his time to making himself fit.

[BabuYagu]

https://instagram.com/p/BlGEWTIh-MT/

Very interesting...

Amazing how often reading the first 10 comments on things online makes you fear for the path society is on. Racism, homophobic and other derogatory comments aplenty.

[Dim Glas]

https://instagram.com/p/BlGEWTIh-MT/

Very interesting...

He looked pretty good in segments of the half too, some good passing from deep! OF course, hard to gauge it being a pre season game vs Tranmere. But indeed it will be interesting if he continues to play deeper in the games vs tougher opposition.

[killer-heels]

Amazing how often reading the first 10 comments on things online makes you fear for the path society is on. Racism, homophobic and other derogatory comments aplenty.

Does seem complimentary on there.

[CraigDS]

Does seem complimentary on there.

One of the first ones I saw was saying he gobbles sausage!

[PhaseOfPlay]

Our outfield players may miss chances but our overall scoring record under Klopp is impressive so no, my buck will pass Klopp. He has a track record of making players and teams better. I struggle to say the same about our other coach. Best young keeper in the Bundesliga joins Liverpool and suddenly becomes error-strewn. Same handling errors but no solution. Mignolet is bought from Sunderland because of how good he has been but as soon as he joins Liverpool regresses. Both our keepers are now a laughing stock and the man who trains them needs to take responsibility

Or - we keep buying sub-par keepers who either don't fit the way we play, or excelled in a league where generally keepers post big numbers across the board?

[BabuYagu]

No it doesn't? It just requires him not to drop a harmless free kick into the path of somebody for a tap in?

How many 'moments' did he have in the game ALONGSIDE that balls up? Nobody spoke about them.


He also 'statistically' made fewer errors than most keepers, but who cares? If you have a pair of eyes you can see that he nearly cost us in every knockout game in our run to the final bar Porto. Why go off stats when the common sense rule can apply here.

He drops clanger after clanger in big games, and will continue to do so now, he's proven he can't handle pressure, so why will it change now there's MORE pressure on top of him?

I think you then missed the entire Karius thread where people wanted to categorise everything as an error, from closing his eyes when being barged claiming a cross, to not coming for some crosses - every week seemed to be a new "he will never make it as a keeper because he does this" post followed by pages of people demonstrating the exact same thing happening to every other keeper.

[BabuYagu]

Does seem complimentary on there.

Maybe they are being removed. 4 out of the first 10 were abusive. Two of them had LFC in there username.

[PhaseOfPlay]

What position did he seem to be playing? Was it some sort of variation on a right-sided, inverted forward?

WTF is an "inverted forward"?

[deFacto please, you bastards]

He should get off fucking social media, wasting his time thinking up jokes, and devote all his time to making himself fit.

Did nothing wrong on there. made a joke, big bloody deal.

[BabuYagu]

What position did he seem to be playing? Was it some sort of variation on a right-sided, inverted forward?

He was playing more off the front line behind Origi & Wilson. He had good moments but I think the biggest feature to Sturridge's game is his work in the box. Making that space/angle to get a shot off, stuff like that. I think he only had one of two touches in the box last night and that was a friendly against a 4th tier side.

[CraigDS]

Did nothing wrong on there. made a joke, big bloody deal.

Whoosh!

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Whoosh!

Hard to tell these days Craig 

[Living Legends]

WTF is an "inverted forward"?

 

[Zimagic]

He was playing more off the front line behind Origi & Wilson. He had good moments but I think the biggest feature to Sturridge's game is his work in the box. Making that space/angle to get a shot off, stuff like that. I think he only had one of two touches in the box last night and that was a friendly against a 4th tier side.

Can he convert to a deeper role, do you think? He's always been an off the shoulder kind of player.
I wonder if Klopp is looking changing how he can be used without getting him injured as much rather than saying "I want you as a pacy striker, show me you have it or off you'll go!"

[Funky_Gibbons]

Can he convert to a deeper role, do you think? He's always been an off the shoulder kind of player.
I wonder if Klopp is looking changing how he can be used without getting him injured as much rather than saying "I want you as a pacy striker, show me you have it or off you'll go!"

I'd expect we need someone with good stamina and work-rate to play that role as we tend to press from the front.

He might be trying to add another string to his bow but if he's here after the transfer window I can't see him starting many games there.

[princeoftherocks]

WTF is an "inverted forward"?

I got that in my teens from wanking loads.

[BabuYagu]

Can he convert to a deeper role, do you think? He's always been an off the shoulder kind of player.
I wonder if Klopp is looking changing how he can be used without getting him injured as much rather than saying "I want you as a pacy striker, show me you have it or off you'll go!"

With us, no, I doubt it.

The position he was playing is typically the person who needs to work the hardest in the team of the ball and is crucial to the counter press. If anything, Sturridge needs to massively reduce his workload to save his body from high intensity work out. I think this would only increase it or create a tactical vulnerability in our system - something Klopp would rarely do I suspect.

But elsewhere he probably could.

[BabuYagu]

I'd expect we need someone with good stamina and work-rate to play that role as we tend to press from the front.

He might be trying to add another string to his bow but if he's here after the transfer window I can't see him starting many games there.

Actually yes, precisely what Funky said. Wish I read that before replying

[sempi]

This is Karius biggest problem. Every keeper will have 2 or 3 moments that can be deemed an error probably per game. A moment of indecision/hesitation. A missed cross. Giving away the ball in your own half. Parrying a shot into danger. Not looking perfect when saving a shot. Closing eyes when being hit claiming a cross. Plus lots of other stuff that actually are big errors.

The target seems to now be for Karius to go through games in pre-season being perfect. This was also the target at the end of last season when he went 19 league games and european games up to the final, statistically made fewer mistakes than most keepers, but it doesn't batter as people don't watch them, don't care if they make mistakes and have lots of highlight reel saves to fall back on if they do.

He's set up to fail. Therefore fail he will. Just remains to be seen if it is spectacularly or not.

Just a thought for Danny Ward, he pulled off a heck of save and prevented a goal from a corner, yet that spill of Karius has occupied pages...

[BabuYagu]

Just a thought for Danny Ward, he pulled off a heck of save and prevented a goal from a corner, yet that spill of Karius has occupied pages...

How many mistakes did Pickford make tonight that could have been a goal but for pure luck. It's the fine line with keepers sometimes, whether you get away with it or not. That kick straight to Croatia, the punch, the run off his line getting nowhere near the ball and almost getting lobbed, just takes one of those to go in and instead of his reputation now being great , he is getting absolutely destroyed tonight. Based purely on one moment of which he had no control of the end outcome after making a mistake.

Being a keeper is rough.

[RyanBabel19]

Social media is toxic, people seem to think they can say whatever they want with no consequences because they are typing it on their computer or a phone

Disgusting some of the stuff you see posted online for absolutely no reason or over something as small as football. I love the game and i'm gutted whenever we lose but to send someone abuse i just don't understand

It's insane some will read that people have ended their lives over abuse they've received online then go and send abusive messages to someone

[mrantarctica]

WTF is an "inverted forward"?

Neymar? Seems to spend all his time upside down if social media is to be believed

[BabuYagu]

WTF is an "inverted forward"?

Sadio Mane.

Wait, did you say introvert?

[jillcwhomever]

Social media is toxic, people seem to think they can say whatever they want with no consequences because they are typing it on their computer or a phone

Disgusting some of the stuff you see posted online for absolutely no reason or over something as small as football. I love the game and i'm gutted whenever we lose but to send someone abuse i just don't understand

It's insane some will read that people have ended their lives over abuse they've received online then go and send abusive messages to someone

It is why I stay well away from social media, to be honest. It is better to surround yourself with something more positive. 

[RyanBabel19]

It is why I stay well away from social media, to be honest. It is better to surround yourself with something more positive. 

Its true

I have instagram and that's pretty much it. Browse twitter every so often but don't have one myself, some of the stuff you see on there is disgusting

[Always_A_Red]

I could deal with that if it was his only weakness. We all know it's not, though.

He's not the 10/10 all-singing, all-dancing sweeper keeper he's been built up to be on here. Hugo Lloris seems to get a lot of hate on here, but he's a much closer example of that. Watch him 'sweep'. As a Tottenham fan, your heart would probably be in your mouth such are the risks he takes, but he very rarely gets it wrong. Like Karius, he's very fast off his line, but unlike Karius, he times his movements and tackles perfectly so that he does not foul the ensuing attacker and comes away with the ball for his team. As a conventional goalkeeper, his reflexes are also on a completely different level FWIW. That doesn't mean he doesn't make mistakes either. That's a strawman argument made by the mob on here.

Putting everything else aside for a moment, how many times have we seen Karius either rush too rashly and/or early, fouling the opponent in the process, or too late so that he is either chipped or beaten too easily? I can't answer that exactly of course, but either way the answer is too many times. I'm sure everyone remembers examples of the former. But Selhurst Park in 2016/17 was the first time I noticed the latter. Yes, Lovren put him in a horrid situation with a sliced clearance, but Karius gave McCarthur an easy lob into an open net. Rashford's second at Old Trafford in March was another stark example of this. I recall myself and POP being in a very small minority of those acknowledging his share of blame for that goal. He had VVD between himself and the ball, yet he still decided to rush from his goal, with the deflection and Karius' dreadful decision allowing Rashford essentially an open goal to tap home. Rondon's equaliser at The Hawthornes a month later is another.

I've compared the Karius situation to Sakho many times and whilst there are obvious differences, I really do think it's an apt comparison. For whatever reason, the majority of Liverpool fans seem to really want to like Karius more than his predecessors, even in the face of a whole body of evidence pointing to him not being up to the grade. We all remember the pointless pass completion statistics thrown in the face of those us who dared to criticise Sakho. They weren't completely wrong, of course. Sakho was a talented, progressive defender (with a huge personality), but ultimately a mistake-ridden and unreliable one. In terms of those mistakes leading to goals, though, he seemed to get away with it more often than not and, even when he didn't, there'd be excuses made for him which weren't for others.

Karius got away with his dreadful punch at the Ethiad due to a wrongly disallowed goal. His kamikaze sweeping at Dzeko's leg was also not punished due to a wrongly awarded offside at the Stadio Olympico. Those two situations would have cost us in a domestic world with VAR, for the record. It won't be long before that world is reality.

The phrase "it's better to be lucky than good" only lasts for so long. The mistakes simply caught up with  him in Kiev. For those that couldn't already see his weaknesses, they've been well and truly found out, and it simply can't continue for a club with our aspirations. We can't have a target on our back walking into every game. Not in goal. It's too important a position.

What a brilliant post!