Author Topic: Preseason tour summer 2018 - sponsored by Findus (other products are available)  (Read 358557 times)

Online Dim Glas

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1240 on: July 11, 2018, 01:26:20 pm »
Loris Karius: Liverpool boss Jurgen Klopp defends keeper after mistake in friendly

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44791411

The media won't let this go

why would they? This is the stuff that gets them clicks and that allows them to fill countless articles. This is prime-time for the English media. 

Offline sms1986

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1241 on: July 11, 2018, 01:27:09 pm »
Loris Karius: Liverpool boss Jurgen Klopp defends keeper after mistake in friendly

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44791411

The media won't let this go

Of course they won't, it's clickbait for them. No point worrying about what they think and say.

Offline sirKennyDaggers

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1242 on: July 11, 2018, 01:28:08 pm »
Entitled would have been a better choice of word.

Least our massive world wide fan base cant be accused of being glory hunters!

Offline Djimi Smicer34

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1243 on: July 11, 2018, 01:29:15 pm »
Loris Karius: Liverpool boss Jurgen Klopp defends keeper after mistake in friendly

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44791411

The media won't let this go

Who cares?

If his manager and team-mates back him then the press can say whatever they like; Karius learned in his first season here that it's best to ignore whatever is said in the media.

Online Dim Glas

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1244 on: July 11, 2018, 01:38:00 pm »
Least our massive world wide fan base cant be accused of being glory hunters!

I'm sure most of them didn't just decide to support the club when Roy Hodgon became manager  ;D

 

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1245 on: July 11, 2018, 01:40:26 pm »
We've bought quality all over the pitch except goalkeeper. We've seen how spending money in other key positions has helped us. With a better goalkeeper you could argue Klopp would have won atleast one of his three finals. I understand why many are a bit annoyed about our reluctance to spend money on one after selling Coutinho, getting to champions league final and also in it again this year when it's the obvious place in the team that would improve us the most.
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Offline Mighty_Red

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1246 on: July 11, 2018, 01:47:27 pm »
Happy to see Lallana looking sharp , he's gonna have a huge season, he's literally like a new signing. It goes without saying his qualities will be extremely useful for us especially against low block teams. Reckon front 3 are gonna love playing with him.

Let's hope he can get himself match-fit and ready for the first game, we missed him last season and his quality is important.

I know lots of RAWKites want to get rid of him cos of his age/too many CMs etc. but I think he could be incredibly important to us in the first few months of the season in the absence of AOC and knowing that our front 3 will not have much of a pre-season and will need support.
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Offline Chalky Boots

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1247 on: July 11, 2018, 01:48:08 pm »
We've bought quality all over the pitch except goalkeeper. We've seen how spending money in other key positions has helped us. With a better goalkeeper you could argue Klopp would have won atleast one of his three finals. I understand why many are a bit annoyed about our reluctance to spend money on one after selling Coutinho, getting to champions league final and also in it again this year when it's the obvious place in the team that would improve us the most.

Possibly two. Mignolet I seem to recall made a right mess in the league cup final against City. It is what it is though.

Offline Henry Gale

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1248 on: July 11, 2018, 01:49:53 pm »
We've got players like Salah, Mane and Firmino, we've got Klopp as manager and whilst we haven't won anything for a while, we've been in more finals than most teams have in the last few seasons. Players like Keita want to come and play for us, whilst Klopp's team is being built steadily. We have a team that plays exciting football and which terrifies most opponents.

And all that means fuck all unless we start to win stuff. You think any of the above will still be here in 3-4 years if we don't start winning trophies? Course they wont. We can get to 10 finals in a row and again means fuck all unless we win some of them.

Offline sms1986

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1249 on: July 11, 2018, 01:51:10 pm »
And all that means fuck all unless we start to win stuff. You think any of the above will still be here in 3-4 years if we don't start winning trophies? Course they wont. We can get to 10 finals in a row and again means fuck all unless we win some of them.

That's obvious, but I think we will start winning things soon enough.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1250 on: July 11, 2018, 01:51:21 pm »
And all that means fuck all unless we start to win stuff. You think any of the above will still be here in 3-4 years if we don't start winning trophies? Course they wont. We can get to 10 finals in a row and again means fuck all unless we win some of them.

We can win the league and cups next season and they still may leave. Nothing is certain.

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1251 on: July 11, 2018, 01:52:04 pm »
Loris Karius: Liverpool boss Jurgen Klopp defends keeper after mistake in friendly

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44791411

The media won't let this go

I don't give a shite what the media think.
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Offline Jookie

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1252 on: July 11, 2018, 01:53:14 pm »
We've bought quality all over the pitch except goalkeeper. We've seen how spending money in other key positions has helped us. With a better goalkeeper you could argue Klopp would have won atleast one of his three finals. I understand why many are a bit annoyed about our reluctance to spend money on one after selling Coutinho, getting to champions league final and also in it again this year when it's the obvious place in the team that would improve us the most.

You are saying this like you think that Klopp doesn't see the need for a new GK. Or that for some reason he's reluctant to buy one. And that many people are getting angry about this since they don;t think Klopp can see the issues.

From what we know about the GK situation and how Klopp operates, I think it's highly likely that he wants a new GK. I think it's highly likely that he and the scouting team have identified preferred targets. My assumption at the moment is that we can't get those targets in -  whether that is due to the fee involved, the selling club's reluctance to sell at the moment, the players reluctance to move at the moment or a combination of factors. Klopp will move off his preferred targets if there are back-up targets he views as similar -  Goetze and Mane for example. When he doesn't view alternative targets as good enough he'll wait it out - VvD as an example.

I think we may have a VvD type situation here. Best thing we can do is a supporter base is be patient. Klopp is not a fool. He'll know better than any fan what needs to be done to make us a better team. Back him at the moment rather than cry arsing at the match or on the internet would be my advice. Because if you don't then you are working against him, not matter how much you say he back Klopp. The media will sniff blood at any potential rift between Klopp and the fans over the GK position and it'll be a point of attack just as we look to a club that is able to compete at the very highest level again.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 01:54:57 pm by Jookie »
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Offline Henry Gale

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1253 on: July 11, 2018, 01:53:39 pm »
We can win the league and cups next season and they still may leave. Nothing is certain.

Majority of top players seek a few things, Wages, Champions league football and to win stuff. We can guarantee 2/3 we just need to add the third and the hardest to do. We do that and we don't need to worry about as much about players wanting to leave.

Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1254 on: July 11, 2018, 02:03:08 pm »
Everyone knows that you like and rate Karius more than anybody else, but ffs give it a rest, you're becoming very tiresome.

Oh dear.  Send in the clowns of irony please!  May everyone have their cups filleth over with the bilious knowledge of "the Rick". 

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Offline El Lobo

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1255 on: July 11, 2018, 02:05:48 pm »
You are saying this like you think that Klopp doesn't see the need for a new GK. Or that for some reason he's reluctant to buy one. And that many people are getting angry about this since they don;t think Klopp can see the issues.

From what we know about the GK situation and how Klopp operates, I think it's highly likely that he wants a new GK. I think it's highly likely that he and the scouting team have identified preferred targets. My assumption at the moment is that we can't get those targets in -  whether that is due to the fee involved, the selling club's reluctance to sell at the moment, the players reluctance to move at the moment or a combination of factors. Klopp will move off his preferred targets if there are back-up targets he views as similar -  Goetze and Mane for example. When he doesn't view alternative targets as good enough he'll wait it out - VvD as an example.

I think we may have a VvD type situation here. Best thing we can do is a supporter base is be patient. Klopp is not a fool. He'll know better than any fan what needs to be done to make us a better team. Back him at the moment rather than cry arsing at the match or on the internet would be my advice. Because if you don't then you are working against him, not matter how much you say he back Klopp. The media will sniff blood at any potential rift between Klopp and the fans over the GK position and it'll be a point of attack just as we look to a club that is able to compete at the very highest level again.

Couldn't have said it better  :wave
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Djozer

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1256 on: July 11, 2018, 02:08:42 pm »

The key with Karius is that he isn't consistently good enough to play for us every week. He's proven that over the past two years when Klopp's given him the opportunity to cement a first team place. He's capable of making some good saves just like any premier league goalkeeper is. He's also susceptible to clangers more often than a top goalkeeper is which is why he shouldn't be anywhere near the side come the first day of the season.
Prove it. See, lots of people say this - I see it all over the internet, but then I see all sorts of idiocy perpetuated all over the internet so the volume of repetition means nothing, really - but do they actually know it to be true for a fact? Have you watched enough of other keepers to be able to make that judgment, or have you some statistical evidence to make your case?

I personally believe that he may be more error prone than most other keepers, though I also believe the opposite may be true - I honestly don't have enough evidence either way, as I don't watch that much of other keepers nor do I have access to statistical evidence beyond what's freely available on the internet. I think what you're doing is conflating your opinion with fact. I don't mean to have a go, most of us do it; I'm pretty sure I do it myself sometimes. Doesn't make it any more than your opinion though, no matter how strongly you've convinced yourself or how forcefully you present it to others.

Also, you say he isn't "consistently good enough to play for us every week." Perhaps. Surely you're aware though, that we conceded 14 goals in 19 games last year in the league in games in which he played - if you extend that rate over the course of a full season, that's 28 goals - title winning numbers, if you look at the league historically. You also may have heard that he got a higher proportion of clean sheets than any other keeper in the league - not too shabby, eh?

Now, there are many other reasons why our defence tightened up post-January - Van Dijk being the main one, I reckon. However, it seems to me that it is undeniable that Karius was part of a defensive unit that conceded goals at a title wining rate, which suggests that, for a period of about half a year, the defensive unit including Karius was indeed "consistently good enough," and surely that's what matters?

I'm not 100% convinced by Karius either, though it's more a worry about where his head is than his actual ability as a keeper. I think the commonly held view of him is greatly exaggerating his negative attributes and tends to underrate his positive qualities.

Offline Djozer

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1257 on: July 11, 2018, 02:10:49 pm »

I think we may have a VvD type situation here. Best thing we can do is a supporter base is be patient. Klopp is not a fool. He'll know better than any fan what needs to be done to make us a better team. Back him at the moment rather than cry arsing at the match or on the internet would be my advice. Because if you don't then you are working against him, not matter how much you say he back Klopp. The media will sniff blood at any potential rift between Klopp and the fans over the GK position and it'll be a point of attack just as we look to a club that is able to compete at the very highest level again.
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Offline Scottymuser

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1258 on: July 11, 2018, 02:20:51 pm »
For those who think Migs is better, just wanted to put some stats to show just how much better Karius was this past season compared to migs.

First off, % save - Mignolet was the 2nd worse keeper (behind Hart) last year (25th out of 26), with only 59.3% of saves being made (35 saves out of 59 shots on target), whereas Karius was much better at 9th best in the league with 68% success (17 out of 25 shots on target).  Whilst this does agree with the theory about being behind VVD for most the season meaning he was bound to be better, what is interesting is if you then compare the goals conceeded against the Expected goals conceeded.  Which I have just done   - the results are:
Mignolet  - 19 games, Expected goals against 21.07, actual 24, so 14% under performance
Karius  - 19 games, Expected goals against 14.68, actual 14, so 4.6% over performance

What is interesting is if you do an "expected goal per shot" metric, this shows that the quality of shots Karius faced were better despite being behind the  better defence, just at a much lower rate - Migs had an Expected Goal/Shot of 35%, meaning the actual rate of 44.1% was indeed much worse, whereas Karius had an EG/S of 68%, meaning his save ratio of 32% was on par.

Also - the premier league's website has an "error leading to goal" stat, which is a good way of looking at errors which have directly affected a team.  The stats for Mignolet for the past 3 seasons are  4/1/2 and Karius' 2 in his first season, but none last, indicating that he has got better, and didn't make a mistake in the EPL last season after a dodgy first season.

Offline elsewhere

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1259 on: July 11, 2018, 02:30:30 pm »
i know it's training but is this video from yesterday?

https://twitter.com/VanDijkLFC/status/1015681585734184960

Offline Agent99

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1260 on: July 11, 2018, 02:32:39 pm »
i know it's training but is this video from yesterday?

https://twitter.com/VanDijkLFC/status/1015681585734184960
Was the game against Chester I think.

Offline BabuYagu

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1261 on: July 11, 2018, 02:34:11 pm »
All valid points. If I could be arsed I'd find a GIF of the cross he came for and got absolutely nowhere near for West Brom's equaliser on that same day.

Bournemouth away 2016, two in the European cup final, Kolarov's shot in the 1st leg against Roma, Roma's second in the 2nd leg, last night's latest error. These games vary in terms of importance but they're all mistakes which can largely be attributed to Karius. There's probably a few more which have led to goals, the ones above spring to mind instantly.

The key with Karius is that he isn't consistently good enough to play for us every week. He's proven that over the past two years when Klopp's given him the opportunity to cement a first team place. He's capable of making some good saves just like any premier league goalkeeper is. He's also susceptible to clangers more often than a top goalkeeper is which is why he shouldn't be anywhere near the side come the first day of the season.

You talk like Karius is the only keeper who has ever come out for a ball and not got it, made a mistake, etc

So in the interests of balance, because I am guessing like everyone else alive, you haven't watched every minute of every Premier League game last season, only ours. Therefore, you likely don't remember every similar moment of other keepers, only ours. Here is the same information for all other keepers in the league and a few from around europe who get frequent mentions in here. This is just raw data - I have not adjusted whatsoever. That way people can use it and create whatever metrics they like with it.

Errors Leading to a Shot 2017/18 (League data only)
Hugo Lloris (8 )
Petr Cech (7)
Asmir Begovic (7)
Gianluigi Donnarumma (7)
Ederson (6)
Jonas Lössl (6)
Kasper Schmeichel (5)
Karl Darlow (4)
Joe Hart (4)
Fraser Forster (4)
Péter Gulácsi (4)
Jirí Pavlenka (4)
Thomas Strakosha (4)
Alisson (4)
Orestis Karnezis (3)
Simon Mignolet (3)
Heurelho Gomes (3)
Mat Ryan (3)
David de Gea (3)
Jordan Pickford (3)
Yann Sommer (3)
Martin Dubravka (2)
Lukasz Fabianski (2)
Keylor Navas (2)
Bernd Leno (2)
Gianluigi Buffon (2)
José Reina (2)
Adrián (1)
Wayne Hennessey (1)
Thibaut Courtois (1)
Ben Foster (1)
Kepa Arrizabalaga (1)
Marc-André ter Stegen (1)
Koen Casteels (1)
Nick Pope (0)
Julian Speroni (0)
Robert Elliot (0)
Alex McCarthy (0)
Jack Butland (0)
Jan Oblak (0)
Loris Karius (0)




Shots Parried into Danger (League data only)
Péter Gulácsi (35)
Jonas Lössl (32)
Koen Casteels (32)
Lukasz Fabianski (31)
Jirí Pavlenka (28)
Thomas Strakosha (27)
Jordan Pickford (26)
Gianluigi Donnarumma (25)
Mat Ryan (23)
Alisson (22)
Yann Sommer (22)
Bernd Leno (22)
Nick Pope (22)
Wayne Hennessey (21)
Jack Butland (21)
Hugo Lloris (20)
Fraser Forster (20)
Asmir Begovic (19)
Adrián (19)
Ben Foster (19)
Kasper Schmeichel (18)
David de Gea (18)
Kepa Arrizabalaga (18)
Petr Cech (17)
Heurelho Gomes (17)
Jan Oblak (16)
Joe Hart (15)
Ederson (13)
Marc-André ter Stegen (13)
Karl Darlow (12)
Robert Elliot (12)
Keylor Navas (11)
Gianluigi Buffon (10)
Julian Speroni (10)
Simon Mignolet (9)
José Reina (9)
Alex McCarthy (9)
Martin Dubravka (8 )
Thibaut Courtois (8 )
Orestis Karnezis (7)
Loris Karius (5)





Dribbled Past 2017/18 (League data only)
Ben Foster (6)
Jonas Lössl (3)
Mat Ryan (3)
Hugo Lloris (3)
Péter Gulácsi (2)
Jordan Pickford (2)
Asmir Begovic (2)
Adrián (2)
Kasper Schmeichel (2)
Kepa Arrizabalaga (2)
Simon Mignolet (2)
Orestis Karnezis (2)
Alisson (1)
Bernd Leno (1)
Nick Pope (1)
David de Gea (1)
Heurelho Gomes (1)
Joe Hart (1)
Marc-André ter Stegen (1)
Robert Elliot (1)
José Reina (1)
Koen Casteels (0)
Lukasz Fabianski (0)
Jirí Pavlenka (0)
Thomas Strakosha (0)
Gianluigi Donnarumma (0)
Yann Sommer (0)
Wayne Hennessey (0)
Jack Butland (0)
Fraser Forster (0)
Petr Cech (0)
Jan Oblak (0)
Ederson (0)
Karl Darlow (0)
Keylor Navas (0)
Gianluigi Buffon (0)
Julian Speroni (0)
Alex McCarthy (0)
Martin Dubravka (0)
Thibaut Courtois (0)
Loris Karius (0)

I assume this shows instances where a keeper has come out of his goal to close down a shot and got rounded. Obviously this metric is dependant upon your side giving up 1-v-1 chances in the first place, which most defensive sides won't be coupled with a keepers desire to stay on his line and deal with an almost impossible shot vs coming out to challenge the attacker. So keepers who never leave their line will score just as well as those who are excellent in 1-v-1s.


Dropped Crosses 2017/18 (League data only)
Jordan Pickford (10)
Nick Pope (5)
Marc-André ter Stegen (5)
Wayne Hennessey (5)
Jonas Lössl (4)
Asmir Begovic (4)
Adrián (4)
David de Gea (4)
Jack Butland (4)
Ederson (4)
Ben Foster (3)
Mat Ryan (3)
Péter Gulácsi (3)
Kasper Schmeichel (3)
Orestis Karnezis (3)
Lukasz Fabianski (3)
Kepa Arrizabalaga (2)
Robert Elliot (2)
Koen Casteels (2)
Fraser Forster (2)
Petr Cech (2)
Karl Darlow (2)
Thibaut Courtois (2)
Simon Mignolet (1)
Joe Hart (1)
José Reina (1)
Jirí Pavlenka (1)
Thomas Strakosha (1)
Gianluigi Donnarumma (1)
Jan Oblak (1)
Keylor Navas (1)
Alex McCarthy (1)
Martin Dubravka (1)
Loris Karius (1)
Hugo Lloris (0)
Alisson (0)
Bernd Leno (0)
Heurelho Gomes (0)
Yann Sommer (0)
Gianluigi Buffon (0)
Julian Speroni (0)

As per the above, this is dependant on the keeper being willing to come off his line to deal with crosses in the first place (e.g. Buffon never does!)



Hopefully the above data is a good starting point at trying to assess how many mistakes keepers in the Premier League & those being mentioned from around Europe make in relation to the two we watch week in week out. Because just because you didn't see them fuck up, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Other stuff will feed into your keeper giving up shooting chances to the opposition within a few touches (e.g. poor short distribution, staying on your line for crosses, staying on your line for balls behind the defence etc) however these are the most obvious ones that everyone is probably most familiar with and are the easiest for us to measure.

Since then I have grabbed some more categories to include, all things that tend to correlate with giving up shots/goals.

Penalties Conceded
Thibaut Courtois (2)
Loris Karius (2)
Nick Pope (1)
Joe Hart (1)
Asmir Begovic (1)
Jordan Pickford (1)
Heurelho Gomes (1)
Jan Oblak (1)
Kepa Arrizabalaga (1)
Hugo Lloris (1)
Keylor Navas (1)
Gianluigi Buffon (1)
Simon Mignolet (1)
- Everyone Else (0)

Unsuccessful Dribble Attempt
Jack Butland (1)
Thomas Strakosha (1)
Petr Cech (1)
Alisson (1)
- Migs, Karius & Everyone Else (0)

Passing Accuracy Own Half%
Martin Dubravka (96%)
Ederson (95%)
José Reina (93%)
Loris Karius (93%)
Simon Mignolet (92%)

Alisson (92%)
Gianluigi Buffon (92%)
Keylor Navas (91%)
Hugo Lloris (91%)
Thibaut Courtois (90%)
Péter Gulácsi (90%)
Yann Sommer (89%)
Petr Cech (89%)
Marc-André ter Stegen (88%)
Bernd Leno (88%)
Gianluigi Donnarumma (88%)
Koen Casteels (88%)
Kepa Arrizabalaga (86%)
Jonas Lössl (85%)
David de Gea (85%)
Thomas Strakosha (84%)
Jirí Pavlenka (84%)
Alex McCarthy (82%)
Lukasz Fabianski (82%)
Robert Elliot (81%)
Jan Oblak (81%)
Karl Darlow (79%)
Wayne Hennessey (79%)
Kasper Schmeichel (78%)
Heurelho Gomes (78%)
Jordan Pickford (78%)
Ben Foster (77%)
Fraser Forster (77%)
Asmir Begovic (77%)
Mat Ryan (75%)
Joe Hart (74%)
Jack Butland (72%)
Orestis Karnezis (72%)
Nick Pope (71%)
Julian Speroni (68%)
Adrián (65%)

Tackles Lost p90 - (I.e. Keeper challenges player for ball and it player or team mate end up in possession)
José Reina (1)
Simon Mignolet (1)
Alisson (1)
Keylor Navas (1)
Marc-André ter Stegen (1)
Gianluigi Donnarumma (1)
Koen Casteels (1)
Jonas Lössl (1)
Kasper Schmeichel (1)
Ben Foster (1)
Adrián (1)
- Karius Everyone Else (0)

Plus here is my thoughts on all the above and why making assessments on purely this numbers can be problematic which I am sure many will raise. So hopefully this answers more of such points before they are even raised.

I thought I included these. At least I intended to and grabbed the data for them. I can see though I just mentioned it in my post above it which started it off.

"Actually I think the one area he likely has a poor score is penalties conceded as he had two - Kane (blatant dive) and Zaha (who turns up the chance to kick an ex-United player in the chest?). "

Problem with doing this work in the early hours of the am without the usual checks in place when there are two working on it. But yeah, I don't want to start combining numbers to include those as errors as they will each tell their own story, their own possible issues with each keeper. It's why instead of trying to create a score for each category on the radar - we decided to just break up the categories into lots of metrics to give it some meaning and context. Plus it makes what we are doing verifiable to those who can check the data.  :D
I would say a mix of many things. Firstly, it suggests the narrative that he is some highly error prone calamity is probably false. To go 19 league games with an almost spotless record in the premier league confirms he did well and took his chance. That all the keepers held up as being some godlike beings is also false. But also that we are looking at a small sample size as he hasn't yet had a full season here. Which makes every single event highly relevant. A single bad game where he makes a mistake or two, drops a cross etc - suddenly he goes from looking good to looking league average based on one game as there isn't enough data to somewhat lose that one bad game in the large sample.

Likewise you can suggest he hasn't had as much opportunity to fuck up as most of the others. Plus the data is league only - and I think Karius' more scrutinised games were in Europe (both Roma games and the final for example). People tend to work only on league data as it gives you a good annual sample size.

I personally like looking at the stats from sites though for players in europe vs the league. With Klaassen for example, it showed me his numbers absolutely fell off a cliff in Europe. He went from looking like a peak Lampard to looking like a 36 year old Gareth Barry when comparing his league and european data.

Also this doesn't tell us someone is good or bad, but simply how many errors they are making that likely contribute to shots &/or goals.  The purpose of it was to answer the question "how error prone are our keepers compared to the rest of the league". The reason being there is approximately 760 hours of football to watch in the Premier League each season and Liverpool's matches will make up just 10% of that. So usually the only time we get to see opposition keepers is against us and a handful of other times we can be arsed to watch them. With those abroad, it's less still. Regardless, nobody exists that has watched all the games played of all those keepers on that last in the last 12 months. Therefore data fill in all the blanks and does so in an unbiased and consistent way.

So now we have some data to say how many mistakes our keepers make, how many crosses they drop, how many shots they parry into danger and how many times they are rounded 1v1. These are just raw numbers so everyone can use them how they please. When we make radars using them, I will create more meaningful metrics from these numbers e.g. ratio of shots parried that are dangerous - as this stop the bias favouring those who face fewer shots. Errors per 90. Dribble past vs successful ground duels. Crosses dropped vs crosses punched/caught.

The idea here being similar to passing accuracy. Xavi giving up 10 passes a game sounds a lot. But making 160 of them, not so much. Whereas Can giving up 10 from his 40 per match would be alarming in the same position. So keepers have to be allowed some fuckup margin, we just need to know what that acceptable margin is and see if ours are above or below that. So if our keepers are giving away goals/penalties in 1-v-1 situations a lot, then that is bad. But if they are being exposed to those situations twice as much as any other team, then they are likely dealing with them as well as anybody, it is just the higher volume means they fuck up more.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 02:36:00 pm by BabuYagu »
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Offline sms1986

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1262 on: July 11, 2018, 02:37:15 pm »
Was the game against Chester I think.

Yes, he was warming up which means it's even less of a relevant mistake than the one last night.

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1263 on: July 11, 2018, 02:44:31 pm »
Bit of a self fulfilling prophecy as well isn't it? Try fucking backing the lad rather than giving him dogs abuse for putting a picture of his cat online or dropping a plate at home in the kitchen.

YNWA seems a bit fucking selective for the majority of our spoilt entitled fanbase at the minute....

I dont think his good enough but you are right the whole abuse he seems to get is a joke.

His not making mistakes on purpose and why his social life is every brought up i have no idea.

Offline sms1986

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1264 on: July 11, 2018, 02:45:25 pm »
his social life is every brought up i have no idea.

It's an extra stick to beat him with for some.

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1265 on: July 11, 2018, 02:46:33 pm »
Bit of a self fulfilling prophecy as well isn't it? Try fucking backing the lad rather than giving him dogs abuse for putting a picture of his cat online or dropping a plate at home in the kitchen.

YNWA seems a bit fucking selective for the majority of our spoilt entitled fanbase at the minute....

I got shouted down last night for saying that I'd prefer Mignolet to start instead of Karius so I would agree that YNWA definitely seems selective for some.

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1266 on: July 11, 2018, 02:48:08 pm »
I got shouted down last night for saying that I'd prefer Mignolet to start instead of Karius so I would agree that YNWA definitely seems selective for some.

You got shouted down for it because Mignolet has been here since 2013, he's had 5 seasons to show what he is capable of producing. You then spouted utter tosh about Karius making more mistakes in his two seasons than Mignolet has in his entire career.

You got called out for it because it's bollocks.

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1267 on: July 11, 2018, 02:51:59 pm »
Just to highlight what I was saying earlier, since Mignolet's debut for Liverpool in August 2013, he has now made more errors leading to a goal than any other player in the Premier League.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-keeper-simon-mignolet-sets-11390916

That's why you got called out.

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1268 on: July 11, 2018, 02:53:45 pm »
Whatever you think of Karius, its pretty clear neither Mignolet or Ward are the answer.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1269 on: July 11, 2018, 02:54:23 pm »
You got shouted down for it because Mignolet has been here since 2013, he's had 5 seasons to show what he is capable of producing. You then spouted utter tosh about Karius making more mistakes in his two seasons than Mignolet has in his entire career.

You got called out for it because it's bollocks.

Edited, I'm talking bollocks  ;D
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 02:56:00 pm by Redsnappa »

Offline El Lobo

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1270 on: July 11, 2018, 02:56:00 pm »
I don't think Migs has started either of the halves of each friendly, has he?

If so, he's getting the Markovic treatment I reckon, Klopp wants him gone.

Hmmmm.....could be a whoosh
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1271 on: July 11, 2018, 02:56:37 pm »
To be fair to Migs he hasn't played with VVD much, who I believe is the main catalyst in our improved defensive displays
"We must turn from doubters into believers" - Jurgen Klopp


I've got a feeling that Origi is the real deal, from a couple of games I watched but mainly his interviews there seems to be something about him.

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1272 on: July 11, 2018, 02:57:13 pm »
Hmmmm.....could be a whoosh


If only  ;D

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1273 on: July 11, 2018, 02:57:21 pm »
Quote
snip

Do you have a link to the website you got these from please babu?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 03:02:22 pm by Henry Gale »

Offline The Istvan Kozma Fan Club

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1274 on: July 11, 2018, 03:13:58 pm »
Why exactly is ward worse than karius ?

Why is Bogdan worse than Karius? :D

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1275 on: July 11, 2018, 03:15:29 pm »
To be fair to Migs he hasn't played with VVD much, who I believe is the main catalyst in our improved defensive displays

Dropping catches,droping shots into the path of other players,etc... has very little to do with Van Dijk

People forget when Xhaka pelted a a shot from 30 yards out and what Mignolet did with it.

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1276 on: July 11, 2018, 03:21:23 pm »
To be fair to Migs he hasn't played with VVD much, who I believe is the main catalyst in our improved defensive displays

Playing VVD ahead of Mignolet won’t change anything.

He’s a nice bloke, a decent goalkeeper and has given his all for Liverpool - but he isn’t good enough to be our number one again ahead of Karius.

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1277 on: July 11, 2018, 03:26:57 pm »
Dropping catches,droping shots into the path of other players,etc... has very little to do with Van Dijk

People forget when Xhaka pelted a a shot from 30 yards out and what Mignolet did with it.
Remember the headless chicken that Lovren was before VVD came in? He's a presence that calms those around him and improves their game.
"We must turn from doubters into believers" - Jurgen Klopp


I've got a feeling that Origi is the real deal, from a couple of games I watched but mainly his interviews there seems to be something about him.

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1278 on: July 11, 2018, 03:31:10 pm »
Remember the headless chicken that Lovren was before VVD came in? He's a presence that calms those around him and improves their game.

Playing side by side a centerback partner is not the same, that's more about the understanding and developing chemistry and knowing when to make a move, when not to,etc.... Despite Van Dijk's calming presence, Lovren is still prone to making brain fart decisions.

Having Van Dijk in front of him, won't change the fact that he's made the mistakes that Karius has who has also played with Van Dijk in front of him. I see no corrolation between Van Dijk being there and Mignolet droping a clanger 30 yards out.

VVD is an exceptional defender, but he isn't Jesus.

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1279 on: July 11, 2018, 03:36:12 pm »
:lmao

Said it before and I'll say it again and bore everyone, cos hey, this thread is all about repeating. The lad should just sack off social media.   It shouldn't be that important. He's allowed it to get to him in the past too, so he must read the shit being posted. Just pack it in and concentrate on being a footballer 100% for a bit.  Be a refreshing change for a footballer to take that line. Be like going old-school.

It is interesting though how bullying has become an accepted thing in peoples eyes as long as they can somehow justify doing it. Like with that child actress from Stranger Things who quit social media - Millie Bobby Brown.

It was fine to do that to her because it was just harmless fun, a meme. It's fine to do it with Karius because he has it coming, brings it on himself.

Instead of Karius needing to bin off social media, it would be nice if society could bin off all the toxic people. The fear then being that the number of people left after doing so would be a number than diminishes by the day.
My first article on Anfield Index on Shaqiri. Enjoy. bit.ly/2mAq3Qd