Author Topic: Preseason tour summer 2018 - sponsored by Findus (other products are available)  (Read 358562 times)

Offline Djozer

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1360 on: July 12, 2018, 05:22:45 pm »
Is that a fair comparison though, is it? I mean Vida is about to play in a world cup final.

Don't see how Lloris playing in a WC final has much relevance to be honest, so is Voronin lookalike/playalike Domagoj Vida.

Damn you HBHR!  ;D

Interesting that we both chose Vida as our idea of "WC final player who ain't all that." Poor bloke, bet he goes and has a blinder now.

Offline Djozer

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1361 on: July 12, 2018, 05:24:52 pm »
Mate, I give the below marks to you for the word count in the essay  ;)

What a brilliant post!

Really good post this.

Absolutely spot on this.

It has to improve next time though. Your word count has to double to remain in the reckoning.
;D Cheers mate.

Na, no extended essays from me, the big guns have come out now so I'm going to go back into hiding and watch the carnage unfold. I'd only embarass meself anyway if I tried!

Offline Ipcress

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1362 on: July 12, 2018, 05:42:53 pm »
fucking hell

anyway, you either believe we should stick with karius because you believe he is going to end up as a good enough keeper that will end up winning us trophies, or you say, hmm maybe he's not going to be good enough, and maybe it was always a bit iffy whether he was before the CL final, but now it's tough to see him being good enough for us, and it might be best for the club that we get a new keeper.

Apparently, the latter opinion means we're kicking him while he's down. Interesting phrasing. I've read so many times on here that we need to be more ruthless to win trophies. What you seem to be saying there is that we should allow Karius to retain the no.1 spot to be nice to him, even if we might believe he might not be cut out for it. Personally I think that's a bit bollocks, and is not in line with how pro football works, and it's also a bit patronising to Karius himself. I don't even want to sell him btw. I'd rather have him as 2nd choice than Mignolet.

Apologies if I have confused you.

What I am saying is that supporters should support him and any other player that Klopp picks. We should not get on his back, not set standards that even De Gea can't reach, and call him a failure for not reaching them.

If he is not good enough, then it's up to the manager to make that call, and up to the manager when to make that call. In the meantime, undermining the player serves what purpose? Makes some people feel better, at the cost of the performance of the team? We know Klopp is looking to strengthen, and has been for months at least, let him do that at his own pace. The same people who argued we had to get a central defender in Summer cos VVD fell through were shown to be wrong. The people who told us we wouldn't finish top 4 without replacing Coutinho were proved wrong, and we went further in the Champions League than anyone predicted.

It's simple really, if you believe, support the manager, support the team. If you don't, then unless you have verifiable reasons using facts and logic, then don't undermine them.
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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1363 on: July 12, 2018, 05:46:11 pm »
Matip could feature this saturde, Van Dijk will for sure, Gini is doubtful

More details

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/joel-matip-ready-liverpool-return-14902044

Offline Sheer Magnetism

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1364 on: July 12, 2018, 05:56:28 pm »
What I am saying is that supporters should support him and any other player that Klopp picks. We should not get on his back, not set standards that even De Gea can't reach, and call him a failure for not reaching them.
Citation please.

Now after a setback imposed by a 3rd party, should we help him back to his feet or kick him while he's down? How you answer may well not only reflect on you as a Liverpool Fan, but as a person as well.
Can we leave out the histrionics and just judge his actual playing ability? There's a vast gulf between sending Karius abuse on social media and simply believing he's not good enough for the first team.

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1365 on: July 12, 2018, 06:23:20 pm »
When you get a chance, let me know what you think if there are any signs that we are doing something new/different based on that video, I'm curious  :)

That's more of a warm-up phase. We won't see anything "new" from that footage.

The possession drill at the start is a standard 5v5+3 possession game for technique. There's nothing much tactical you can see from there that isn't general for all systems and formations. It's General-to-Specific training. What's interesting is Klopp stepping in to talk about turning with the ball. So we know that aspect is being coached :D
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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1366 on: July 12, 2018, 06:24:08 pm »
Matip could feature this saturde, Van Dijk will for sure, Gini is doubtful
 ...


Turkish media immediately goes into overdrive  ;D

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1367 on: July 12, 2018, 07:35:16 pm »
Turkish media immediately goes into overdrive  ;D

If I didn't know any better I'd say Gini was Turkish. Their nonsense reporting is really funny

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1368 on: July 12, 2018, 07:35:55 pm »
That's more of a warm-up phase. We won't see anything "new" from that footage.

The possession drill at the start is a standard 5v5+3 possession game for technique. There's nothing much tactical you can see from there that isn't general for all systems and formations. It's General-to-Specific training. What's interesting is Klopp stepping in to talk about turning with the ball. So we know that aspect is being coached :D

cheers, haven't even had a chance to look myself. much apprecaited

Offline redtel

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1369 on: July 12, 2018, 08:07:44 pm »
Is that a fair comparison though, is it? I mean Vida is about to play in a world cup final. Does that make him better than VVD?
Fred got miles more Brasil caps than Firmino, and also played in a world cup final, from what I remember. He was dogshit. So was Stephane Guivarch. Giroud isn't brilliant either, meanwhile Fekir is warming his arse on the bench.
Germany have Neuer, Stegen and Trapp who are the number one GKs for Bayern and Barca and, this season, displaced to second choice at PSG respectively. All of them are at least 2 years older, and have had much more time to establish themselves both at their current club.

Interestingly, only Ter Stegen joined at a younger age than Karius is now, and none of them had really cemented themselves as undisputed number one until Karius' age or a year or two older.

Karius isn't a baby, but he is still relatively young for the first choice at an elite club.

Lloris' current rivals are Mandanda and PSG's actual number 1, Areola, who is 25 and only became number 1 for PSG this season.

I wasn't comparing VVD with Vida or any other pairings but simply saying Lloris is years ahead of Karius with international caps and currently at the peak of his career.

As for Fred, if you think he was dogshit just wait to see if he turns up at OT and how the manager polishes that turd.  :P

I think you have nailed it with the sentence "Karius isn't a baby but he is still relatively young for the first choice at an elite club"

We are fast approaching an elite club again after too many trophy less years. Klopp and everyone at the club are working towards this goal.
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Offline BabuYagu

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1370 on: July 12, 2018, 08:09:01 pm »
When you get a chance, let me know what you think if there are any signs that we are doing something new/different based on that video, I'm curious  :)
PoP gave a better answer than I ever could. I've studied coaching just to understand a little just so I can pick up bits and pieces coaches are trying to integrate into their game - but I looked more at the tactical work. PoP has actually done it this professionally though so his insight is far more valuable.

I would say anybody wanting to watch the video just skips the first 10 minutes. It's just some physical work, more of a stretch and warm up routine than anything else. I'll try to break little bits down and elaborate though.

The point PoP mentions when Klopp steps in is interesting. I think he is also mentioning awareness there "where are my mates". Then pointing with his fingers to show the limits of your peripheral vision - 120o. And given that it is two touch - you cannot afford to receive, look then play (Emre special). So he wants people looking constantly so before the ball comes to them then have the layout of things in their heads and know where is safe to play or not.

I also think he is talking about playing on the half turn here and not standing square to receive the ball which makes you easier to press. He is indicating he wants them in motion to receive and play. A good example of this is Gini btw who almost never receives with his back pointing towards the opponent goal - he is always moving like a pendulum in relation to who is on the ball from center out.  This means players tracking him are then moving away from the center too - thus opening up spaces for vertical passes beyond him into the more forward players. But his movement off center in this manner means his body is rotating away from center opening up more of the pitch with his peripheral vision.

So using this as an example, you can see how moving off center and opening up his body shape means he can see most of the pitch and all the opponents. So when you watching players dropping off to collect the ball, look at whether they are "boxing someone in" with their movement and also how they position their shoulders. Dropping vertically on top of someone and with your shoulders square to your own goal tend to be two things coaches will tend to drill out of you. Although big target men, like Lukaku, will typically do this with the intent to back into and roll the marker who follows them. There is a good example of (I think) Chirivella doing this at about 22m40 - he looks over both shoulders, make a good space to receive and then quickly plays it to someone he knows is in space. (after that though he generally looks really poor in there compared to Fabinho & Keita before)

You also hear the coaching staff (Ljinders?) shouting "always think before you get the ball - what is the best solution"

Form the defending team perspective, you are seeing pressure and cover shadows. Players trying to move so they are pressing from a direction that also blocks a passing angle for the ball carrier. So if you imagine if you have passing angles in front of you at 9 oclock and 3 oclock, pressing the ball carrier from 12oclock doesn't cause him much problems. However, pressing from 2 oclock means 9oclock is his only passing open that seems safe. Plus with this action you are simultaneously marking the player at 3oclock and the ball carrier which gives you are free player in defence. Plus by limiting his options, you can create a passing trap. A good example of us doing this is against Man City at Anfield where we created Fernandinho as the trap with Firmino in particular preventing vertical balls into him from the back which encouraged City to pass around Firmino and then into Fernandinho from wider angles. However Firmino doing this became the trigger that Fernandinho would get the ball within a few touches and we were already priming to ambush him from all sides when he did.

There is also the whole concept of compactness for transitions here at play too. Those on the outside, when the ball is lost need to move inside quickly to press and win it back. That creates the instinctive idea to compress space quickly. Likewise those inside, when ball is won back, move outside quickly to create space, passing angles to keep possession or, in games, launch the counter attacks. You here Pep talking about this around 21m. Then later he is saying "Open / Close boys" as in your shape in transitions.

One last thing is Fabinho being in the middle - the guy needing to receive passes from all directions and never has his back to a sideline which makes 360 awareness absolutely vital. I think this is very much to get him up to speed with receiving and playing under high pressure and intensity as quickly as possible given that Henderson likely misses the start of the season now. Then they switched him with Keita - same reason. He looks excellent in there too.

I think you also hear Ljinders shout at one point "Quick in mind, this is your idea. Control your body position to allow play one touch"

I also recommend trying to watch this without tracking the ball. Instead pick a group of players / space on the pitch to watch and then see how the players move - how good they are opening spaces, reacting, etc. I was watching Wilson for a bit and thought he was doing well in particular. He saw when a player was going to lose it for his team and quickly sprinted inside to back him so possession wasn't lost. He moved to create angles. Counter pressing he was shaping and pressing quickly in transitions. I also noticed Kent using quick skills to use players momentum to escape pressure very well.
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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1371 on: July 12, 2018, 08:16:56 pm »
very good babu much appreciated mate

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1372 on: July 12, 2018, 08:21:29 pm »
(snip)

Your ears are way better than mine ;D
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Offline BabuYagu

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1373 on: July 12, 2018, 08:33:25 pm »
Your ears are way better than mine ;D
I am a freelance transcriber (and translator) so have some good headphones and an ear for picking out voices over background noise :D
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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1374 on: July 12, 2018, 09:58:59 pm »
I am a freelance transcriber (and translator) so have some good headphones and an ear for picking out voices over background noise :D
Qué?  ???
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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1375 on: July 12, 2018, 09:59:17 pm »
The last 2 years in the US and in Germany during pre-season Melissa Reddy recorded parts of our training sessions and that was excellent to watch and it also showed the intensity we train with. I would expect and hope Reddy will have something similar from our american tour saying that she is no longer the Liverpool FC correspondent for Goal.com she is the senior football correspondent for Joe.co.uk so i dont know if she follows Liverpool around any more. I hope one of the Journos can pick up the mantle and video one of the open training sessions in the USA.

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1376 on: July 12, 2018, 10:08:36 pm »
very good babu much appreciated mate
NP mate.

Just one thing, I have been talking for a while about the need to move to a more penetration oriented way of playing - similar to that of Guardiola. It is no coincidence that his sides shred the bottom 14 in the leagues he competes in and amass points against them better than anybody. The squad he builds and entire philosophy excels at opening up a packed defence. Lots of needle players, quick passing, controlling opposition, creating & exploiting spaces, etc. However, it hasn't been as successful in knockout competitions for him, compared to say Mourinho. Because a gameplan of not losing and stealing a goal from a top side is succeeding over his side playing more open and expansive against then.

I mentioned before when this happened with Buvac that it may end up a blessing in disguise. The gegenpressing base is there already and can be maintained but another coach (perhaps Ljinders) can focus training more on penetration. So if you imagine in that training drill where Fabinho was in the middle - in a match that is him behind two attackers who are pressing the defence, and two midfielders behind him pressing also. Therefore he is in a position to receive behind the first line and play around the second line of the press. This is very much how Gini approaches his role in midfield. He doesn't look to play through the lines so much himself, although he occassionally does when he is confident and feels the risk is low of failure (e.g. Everton, because Rooney pressing you is fucking hilarious and easy to walk past).

Then later, with Keita in the middle, imagine that is him between 2 CB and 2DM. Receiving in that little pocket, turning and wall passing off Bobby, or playing through Salah in the half space.

So those are things to look for more this season that we really largely failed to do last season simply because our midfielders tended to avoid receiving inside the opposition shape, they move out of it. Hendo comes deep to take it off the defenders. Milner goes wide as an auxilary full back. And without a Lallana or Chamberlain, just having Gini in midfield means you cannot pass to him as you don't pass into opponents overloads in midfield as you cannot counter press them. Therefore our buildup looked like an onion ring.
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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1377 on: July 12, 2018, 10:10:59 pm »
Damn you HBHR!  ;D

Interesting that we both chose Vida as our idea of "WC final player who ain't all that." Poor bloke, bet he goes and has a blinder now.
It's the side cut with straight blond hair in a pony tail. The man could be built like VVD with the pace of Sterling, the tenacity of Suarez, Pele's vision and Maradona's dribbling and I'd still think he was shite.
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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1378 on: July 12, 2018, 10:14:38 pm »
The last 2 years in the US and in Germany during pre-season Melissa Reddy recorded parts of our training sessions and that was excellent to watch and it also showed the intensity we train with. I would expect and hope Reddy will have something similar from our american tour saying that she is no longer the Liverpool FC correspondent for Goal.com she is the senior football correspondent for Joe.co.uk so i dont know if she follows Liverpool around any more. I hope one of the Journos can pick up the mantle and video one of the open training sessions in the USA.

An interesting thing is that in the UK, training normally isn't with that match intensity. Whereas in Germany it always is. Full shinguards, the lot.

There are of course pros and cons with both. But I do wonder whether that is why Germany 7-1 v Brasil or Us vs so many teams happens. Your normal pace is lower intensity and therefore getting up to that higher intensity occurs in games as you plateau. For Germany and Us, we can come out of the blocks with our training intensity and just demolish a side quickly.
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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1379 on: July 13, 2018, 02:13:43 am »
NP mate.

Just one thing, I have been talking for a while about the need to move to a more penetration oriented way of playing - similar to that of Guardiola. It is no coincidence that his sides shred the bottom 14 in the leagues he competes in and amass points against them better than anybody. The squad he builds and entire philosophy excels at opening up a packed defence. Lots of needle players, quick passing, controlling opposition, creating & exploiting spaces, etc. However, it hasn't been as successful in knockout competitions for him, compared to say Mourinho. Because a gameplan of not losing and stealing a goal from a top side is succeeding over his side playing more open and expansive against then.

I mentioned before when this happened with Buvac that it may end up a blessing in disguise. The gegenpressing base is there already and can be maintained but another coach (perhaps Ljinders) can focus training more on penetration. So if you imagine in that training drill where Fabinho was in the middle - in a match that is him behind two attackers who are pressing the defence, and two midfielders behind him pressing also. Therefore he is in a position to receive behind the first line and play around the second line of the press. This is very much how Gini approaches his role in midfield. He doesn't look to play through the lines so much himself, although he occassionally does when he is confident and feels the risk is low of failure (e.g. Everton, because Rooney pressing you is fucking hilarious and easy to walk past).

Then later, with Keita in the middle, imagine that is him between 2 CB and 2DM. Receiving in that little pocket, turning and wall passing off Bobby, or playing through Salah in the half space.

So those are things to look for more this season that we really largely failed to do last season simply because our midfielders tended to avoid receiving inside the opposition shape, they move out of it. Hendo comes deep to take it off the defenders. Milner goes wide as an auxilary full back. And without a Lallana or Chamberlain, just having Gini in midfield means you cannot pass to him as you don't pass into opponents overloads in midfield as you cannot counter press them. Therefore our buildup looked like an onion ring.

Fair points raised, it will be interesting to see what happens and what adjustments Klopp makes.

Offline BabuYagu

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1380 on: July 13, 2018, 02:27:25 am »
Qué?  ???
What I meant is, a lot of transcription work is student interviews with poor audio picking up background noise as much as the speaker. Or an AGM with lots of background noise and speakers without mics. Or a seminar with people chatting, eating, drinking during the speakers presentation.

Which means you develop an ear for picking up one voice in an audio of lots of murmuring and background noise. You also get some softwares and headphones to all help you pick up the thing you are trying to hear more clearly.
My first article on Anfield Index on Shaqiri. Enjoy. bit.ly/2mAq3Qd

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1381 on: July 13, 2018, 03:04:18 am »
Okay.... that's it.  I had it with the lot of you.  Off now.

 Going to sell you all off for medical experiments - Every post is sacred!

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1382 on: July 13, 2018, 04:46:03 am »
Citation please.
Can we leave out the histrionics and just judge his actual playing ability? There's a vast gulf between sending Karius abuse on social media and simply believing he's not good enough for the first team.

Expecting a concussed goalkeeper not to make mistakes.  Lallana in Pyjamas and numerous others have refuted the evidence of the concussion experts based on their ‘gut’

De Gea has conced 10 goals from the last 11 shots on target he has faced, including that long distance shot from Ronaldo that he let go through him. 2 matches earlier he also screwed up a long distance shot from Switzerland which he fumbled, leading to a goal. Can you show me where Karius has gone through a similar or worse phase? I bet not, but please prove me wrong.

There is a difference between believing someone is not good enough for for the team, and holding him up to impossible standards, a red telling him he’s fucking shite during a friendly, and discussing what do we do about him,don’t you agree? I personally have wanted us to upgrade for over a year, but I have faith that Klopp and Edwards will make that decision when the time is right.

People talk about pressure on him, but where is it coming from? If he had the support of the, er, supporters, while he is a Liverpool player, irrespective of being first or second choice, would he not be better able to deal with this pressure, whether he does or doesn’t deal with it in the end?
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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1383 on: July 13, 2018, 07:10:59 am »
Didn’t see Sturridge in training, anyone knows what the situation is with him?

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1384 on: July 13, 2018, 07:29:22 am »
Didn’t see Sturridge in training, anyone knows what the situation is with him?

Read an article few days ago saying both Sturridge and Ings will miss the game on Saturday v Bury

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1385 on: July 13, 2018, 08:18:54 am »
Expecting a concussed goalkeeper not to make mistakes.  Lallana in Pyjamas and numerous others have refuted the evidence of the concussion experts based on their ‘gut’

De Gea has conced 10 goals from the last 11 shots on target he has faced, including that long distance shot from Ronaldo that he let go through him. 2 matches earlier he also screwed up a long distance shot from Switzerland which he fumbled, leading to a goal. Can you show me where Karius has gone through a similar or worse phase? I bet not, but please prove me wrong.

There is a difference between believing someone is not good enough for for the team, and holding him up to impossible standards, a red telling him he’s fucking shite during a friendly, and discussing what do we do about him,don’t you agree? I personally have wanted us to upgrade for over a year, but I have faith that Klopp and Edwards will make that decision when the time is right.

People talk about pressure on him, but where is it coming from? If he had the support of the, er, supporters, while he is a Liverpool player, irrespective of being first or second choice, would he not be better able to deal with this pressure, whether he does or doesn’t deal with it in the end?
Well said.

Offline Carra-ton

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1386 on: July 13, 2018, 08:24:21 am »
Ok, I am giving up on Karius now. If Ward is given preference over Karius, he must have gone to shit. We are in a bad mess with the GK position which we are not going to sort out.
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1387 on: July 13, 2018, 08:25:14 am »
Ok, I am giving up on Karius now. If Ward is given preference over Karius, he must have gone to shit. We are in a bad mess with the GK position which we are not going to sort out.

So you’re giving up because of a media report that his highly likely to not be true? Dramatic much.

Offline ianburns252

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1388 on: July 13, 2018, 08:46:43 am »
It is understandable that, as fans, we often work primarily from an emotional stand point but I consider it important, when assessing the suitability of players, to try and take a more level view point to complement it.

I look at players such as Karius or Lovren (or Lucas when he first joined) and think how they would be judged in a "real world" job. Babu and others have done fantastic work looking at the stats and details to show that these players are performing to a sufficiently high level for us to succeed and these are the equivalent of - for example in my line of work as an accountant - looking at my recovery rate on jobs, time management etc. These are all things which are quantified and then used by those in charge to judge how I am performing and where I need to improve.

There is then a second element which is the bosses gut feeling on me and how I fit in to the team which, as far as we all know, Klopp still feels that these players do and he will have gauged the feeling of the team as well.

The final step will be consideration of how clients (or in football, the fans) relate to these players and how that affects our performance. If the player does not embody the club's spirit and draws the ire of the fans then it is important to consider whether this has a deleterious effect, similarly to how if I piss off a client it will cause us to suffer. Also, if the fans feelings on a player are having a noticeable effect on that player or his team mates performance then you need to consider their suitability.

The above may be a bit clunky, but it keeps me sane and hopefully makes sense.

Offline Rush 82

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1389 on: July 13, 2018, 09:23:22 am »
Didn’t see Sturridge in training, anyone knows what the situation is with him?
Ah Sturridge...
Every time, every single time you get your hopes up....
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Offline Sheer Magnetism

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1390 on: July 13, 2018, 09:35:46 am »
De Gea has conced 10 goals from the last 11 shots on target he has faced, including that long distance shot from Ronaldo that he let go through him. 2 matches earlier he also screwed up a long distance shot from Switzerland which he fumbled, leading to a goal. Can you show me where Karius has gone through a similar or worse phase? I bet not, but please prove me wrong.
Can I show a comparison of their international form? Obviously not because only one of them has been capped and frankly, who cares about international form anyway? Karius did go through that phase around January where he saved 2 out of 8 shots on target against Leicester, Manchester City and Swansea, conceding the first against City because he left a big gap at his near post, if that's what you're looking for.

Ultimately however, De Gea has been in the Premier League team of the year for five successive seasons whereas Karius has had a three-month period where he looked pretty good, out of a two-year stint at the club, so I'm not sure why you think comparing them is a good idea, or remotely relevant.
There is a difference between believing someone is not good enough for for the team, and holding him up to impossible standards, a red telling him he’s fucking shite during a friendly, and discussing what do we do about him,don’t you agree?
Literally what I said a couple of pages ago.

Offline LallanaInPyjamas

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1391 on: July 13, 2018, 09:42:21 am »
Expecting a concussed goalkeeper not to make mistakes.  Lallana in Pyjamas and numerous others have refuted the evidence of the concussion experts based on their ‘gut’

Any chance you could like, not outright lie, in order to support your sanctimony?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 09:57:13 am by LallanaInPyjamas »

Offline Ipcress

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1392 on: July 13, 2018, 10:43:07 am »
Any chance you could like, not outright lie, in order to support your sanctimony?

I”m sorry, but didn”t you say that there were very few details about the concussion, and that the results could have been a result of stress and not concussion.  It was then pointed out to you by someone far more learned in the area than myself, and apparently you, why this was a nonsense. Edit: CraigDS called you out on the lack of details claim and Jookie on your medical analysis in the TAW thread.

I have asked you directly whether you accept Karius was concussed during the final, and I have not seen your answer.

In case I have missed it, let me ask again, so no one can be in any doubt:

Do you accept that Karius was concussed during the final and is therefore not responsible for the goals conceded?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 10:50:23 am by Ipcress »
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Offline LallanaInPyjamas

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1393 on: July 13, 2018, 10:55:57 am »
Do you accept that Karius was concussed during the final and is therefore not responsible for the goals conceded?

I accept based on the information we have that he was concussed but no, I don't think that absolves him of any responsibility at all.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1394 on: July 13, 2018, 11:01:10 am »
I”m sorry, but didn”t you say that there were very few details about the concussion, and that the results could have been a result of stress and not concussion.  It was then pointed out to you by someone far more learned in the area than myself, and apparently you, why this was a nonsense. Edit: CraigDS called you out on the lack of details claim and Jookie on your medical analysis in the TAW thread.

I have asked you directly whether you accept Karius was concussed during the final, and I have not seen your answer.

In case I have missed it, let me ask again, so no one can be in any doubt:

Do you accept that Karius was concussed during the final and is therefore not responsible for the goals conceded?

Don't think anyone could say with absolute certainty that he should be absolved of any responsibility whatsoever, but yeah its not a particularly great leap to suggest it affected him considering the magnitude of the errors and how he was playing up to that point.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1395 on: July 13, 2018, 11:42:01 am »
It's certainly possible that Karius was concussed during the Final and therefore made the errors we all saw. But the fact remains that on either side of this match he has repeated one of the errors - he has flapped at shots aimed at his chest and both times, as in the Final, the ball has gone into the goal or taken a fluky deflection over the bar. 
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1396 on: July 13, 2018, 11:43:29 am »
It's certainly possible that Karius was concussed during the Final

No. He WAS concussed during the final.

Offline sms1986

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1397 on: July 13, 2018, 11:47:02 am »
It's certainly possible that Karius was concussed during the Final and therefore made the errors we all saw. But the fact remains that on either side of this match he has repeated one of the errors - he has flapped at shots aimed at his chest and both times, as in the Final, the ball has gone into the goal or taken a fluky deflection over the bar.

He was concussed during the final and we know he made the error in the friendly because half the fanbase jumped on him for it.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1398 on: July 13, 2018, 11:57:46 am »
It's certainly possible that Karius was concussed during the Final and therefore made the errors we all saw. But the fact remains that on either side of this match he has repeated one of the errors - he has flapped at shots aimed at his chest and both times, as in the Final, the ball has gone into the goal or taken a fluky deflection over the bar.

He was concussed

But to be fair, your argument is pretty sound because like you say its based on mistakes he's made previously around shots being hit at him and him struggling with them. Anyone basing wanting a new keeper on what happened in the final though are just daft.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Preseason tour summer 2018
« Reply #1399 on: July 13, 2018, 12:03:47 pm »
Firmino, TAA, Henderson, Mignolet and Lovren all to miss US tour. Plenty of opportunities then for some of the younger/fringe players to stake a claim for the West Ham game
https://www.liverpoolfc.com/amp/news/first-team/306900-roberto-firmino-liverpool-fc-france-training?