Topic: Re: Manchester City 1 vs Liverpool 1 - (Milner (p) 50'; Aguero 69')

[S]

Aguero's miss is just as bad. A harder chance yes, but you have to take into account we're talking about one of the most lethal finishers in the world. They happen to everyone.

Can looked so good today. The comparisons to a younger Yaya are easy to make, he looked stronger and faster than everyone else in the centre today. If he can play anywhere near that level against the so called weaker teams coming up it will be a massive help.

[jckliew]

Don't think so. I quite like him as a ref. He (they) possibly got a couple of decisions wrong but this happens. I like the way he refs. It was an absolute smasher of a game with a lot of incident. The ref did not spoil it for me.

Think he backed down on a few penalty calls.
Fernandino go away with multiple fouls.

[jckliew]

The cross which came over for their goal was almost a replica of that for the Burnley goal.
So was Klavan's slothful attempt to cut out the cross. He is just too slowwww!

[Dougle]

Think he backed down on a few penalty calls.
Fernandino go away with multiple fouls.

Yep, you are right about Fernandinho. He should be given a yellow just for walking out on the pitch because you know exactly what he is going to do. He is Manchester City's Herrera. I will give you that.
As for the penno's, for me, Mane - no. Gini - maybe. Aguero 1 - no. Aguero 2 - possible. Sterling - probable. Firmino - probable.
I think he got the Sterling one wrong but, for me, there is a bit of doubt even in that. Sterling sort of jumped 2 footed at the ball and missed anyway, but Milner looked like he got Sterling's leg, albeit while he was already off the ground.
Anyway, for me, he got one out of 6 wrong. Lucky for us it should have gone to Manchester City.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

this. Firmino is not a good enough cf for any team expecting to challenge for trophies.

This is shite

[mrantarctica]

Aguero's miss is just as bad. A harder chance yes, but you have to take into account we're talking about one of the most lethal finishers in the world. They happen to everyone.

Can looked so good today. The comparisons to a younger Yaya are easy to make, he looked stronger and faster than everyone else in the centre today. If he can play anywhere near that level against the so called weaker teams coming up it will be a massive help.

I'd hardly let Lallana off so lightly. The relative ability of the players is irrelevant. That's as bad a miss as they come. I saw Aguero miss a volley, and then had a very good chance but seemed to lose his balance. Neither of the two were anywhere remotely easy as Lallana's chance where he was 6 yards from goal, under no pressure with a fairly straightforward pass at normal speed and height.

This isn't U18s or U23s we're talking about. Lallana is paid megabucks to tuck that away. Yes we can find reasons that contributed to the miss, but the idea is that we pay megabucks to these players because in those crucial moments that come, they deliver and we get the results. Lallana had a very good game aside from that so it was highly unfortunate, but each situation has to be judged on its merits and he should do better there with so much at stake. That goal goes in and we're 6 points clear of Man Utd, and 8 points clear of Arsenal. Even with their games in hand, they have a tougher end to the season, and worse goal difference, and I'd say we'd be nailed on for top 4. Now we'll just have to work a bit harder to make up the points in the coming games, and hope that Man Utd don't punish us for not taking our chances.

[jckliew]

I'd hardly let Lallana off so lightly. The relative ability of the players is irrelevant. That's as bad a miss as they come. I saw Aguero miss a volley, and then had a very good chance but seemed to lose his balance. Neither of the two were anywhere remotely easy as Lallana's chance where he was 6 yards from goal, under no pressure with a fairly straightforward pass at normal speed and height.

This isn't U18s or U23s we're talking about. Lallana is paid megabucks to tuck that away. Yes we can find reasons that contributed to the miss, but the idea is that we pay megabucks to these players because in those crucial moments that come, they deliver and we get the results. Lallana had a very good game aside from that so it was highly unfortunate, but each situation has to be judged on its merits and he should do better there with so much at stake. That goal goes in and we're 6 points clear of Man Utd, and 8 points clear of Arsenal. Even with their games in hand, they have a tougher end to the season, and worse goal difference, and I'd say we'd be nailed on for top 4. Now we'll just have to work a bit harder to make up the points in the coming games, and hope that Man Utd don't punish us for not taking our chances.

Yeah. The consequences to the Lalana miss very significant.
We are still behind Manchester City who has a game in hand. ManUre are gobbling up the points behind us.

Plus the fact we suckered Manchester City into going for a win and hot them on the break. Hit them we did, on the break.
Score, we di not. The consequences could be missin out on the top 4

[-Daws-]

I'd hardly let Lallana off so lightly. The relative ability of the players is irrelevant. That's as bad a miss as they come. I saw Aguero miss a volley, and then had a very good chance but seemed to lose his balance. Neither of the two were anywhere remotely easy as Lallana's chance where he was 6 yards from goal, under no pressure with a fairly straightforward pass at normal speed and height.

This isn't U18s or U23s we're talking about. Lallana is paid megabucks to tuck that away. Yes we can find reasons that contributed to the miss, but the idea is that we pay megabucks to these players because in those crucial moments that come, they deliver and we get the results. Lallana had a very good game aside from that so it was highly unfortunate, but each situation has to be judged on its merits and he should do better there with so much at stake. That goal goes in and we're 6 points clear of Man Utd, and 8 points clear of Arsenal. Even with their games in hand, they have a tougher end to the season, and worse goal difference, and I'd say we'd be nailed on for top 4. Now we'll just have to work a bit harder to make up the points in the coming games, and hope that Man Utd don't punish us for not taking our chances.

When Suarez, Aguero, and Lallana all miss sitters on the same day, sometimes you just gotta shrug your shoulders and say it's not meant to be. Lallana has been one of our better finishers this season and has a very good goals / assist record when you consider he players deeper than many of his numericall peers. Worked his socks off today and doesn't deserve a bollocking.

Talk of megabucks and under 23s etc is just toy throwing. These guys are human (yes even Suarez). Go on YouTube and you'll find dozens of worse misses, many from players of the highest quality. It happens.

[BEAST]

I'd hardly let Lallana off so lightly. The relative ability of the players is irrelevant. That's as bad a miss as they come. I saw Aguero miss a volley, and then had a very good chance but seemed to lose his balance. Neither of the two were anywhere remotely easy as Lallana's chance where he was 6 yards from goal, under no pressure with a fairly straightforward pass at normal speed and height.

This isn't U18s or U23s we're talking about. Lallana is paid megabucks to tuck that away. Yes we can find reasons that contributed to the miss, but the idea is that we pay megabucks to these players because in those crucial moments that come, they deliver and we get the results.

This kind of logic is so dumb.  The xG on that shot was 0.8 at best.  Yeah he should've scored, but guess what sometimes shit happens.

Go grab a deck of cards.  You probably won't pull a deuce out of the deck but if you do that's the equivalent of Lallana's miss.

This idea that you're going to link wages to 100% conversion of sitters is idiotic.  Superstar strikers miss sitters all the time.

[jckliew]

This kind of logic is so dumb.  The xG on that shot was 0.8 at best.  Yeah he should've scored, but guess what sometimes shit happens.

Go grab a deck of cards.  You probably won't pull a deuce out of the deck but if you do that's the equivalent of Lallana's miss.

This idea that you're going to link wages to 100% conversion of sitters is idiotic.  Superstar strikers miss sitters all the time.

Comparing a pack of statistical cards where you have no control or shooting at goal where control is in the hands of the footballer?   

[solidgold]

This is real entertaining stuff. End to end stuff with high tempo and immense intensity. No wonder even the non pool fans will stay up to watch this game.
I was just hoping that the defence will hold out for another 5-10mins to secure victory but the onslaught were frightening. Silva, Aguero, De Bruyne, Sanny were playing as if the balls were glued to their feet and I did not see that weariness set in (after the mid week CL game). Their goal was again from the right side. De Brunye was getting so much space on the right after moving wide and he was able to pick runners at will. I am not sure if Moreno would provide a better cover if we take one of the attacker off then. It was a real chance to go ahead of Man City in the terms of points but I must say that 1-1 is not a bad result at Eithad stadium.

[mrantarctica]

This kind of logic is so dumb.  The xG on that shot was 0.8 at best.  Yeah he should've scored, but guess what sometimes shit happens.

Go grab a deck of cards.  You probably won't pull a deuce out of the deck but if you do that's the equivalent of Lallana's miss.

This idea that you're going to link wages to 100% conversion of sitters is idiotic.  Superstar strikers miss sitters all the time.

For all your bleating about logic, you appear to have none. You have gone and compared a professional footballer executing a skill for which he is paid to have a high level of mastery and control over with pulling a particular card seemingly at random from a deck (something no-one anywhere would have any control over, by definition). You have then inferred that I have equated wages with 100% conversion of chances, which I have not done. Finally, you have then agreed with me on the conclusion which is that 'he should have scored'.

That players of all qualities miss from time to time is stating the obvious. The point being that the highest quality players do it on a far less frequent basis than the lesser quality players. That is why they are considered higher quality, and often paid more as a result. My post has nothing to about relative abilities of Lallana or Aguero or anyone else. That has nothing to do with the argument, which is that we should expect our top performers to score easy chances in crucial moments because these moments are significant in determining our success over the season. Had it been Woodburn or Ojo that had missed the chance, then we'd probably have a much lower level of expectation. In contrast, had Mignolet or Karius, or any of the defenders made a howler at 1-0 up that cost us 2 points, then they'd have been pilloried for it.

[penga]

Finally a real great performance from Emre and also Gini was just as good. They took them on and burst past quite often to open up attacking plays. Defensively I think he just loves the rain and the big games, sliding all over the place in a controlled way to win the 50-50s was great to see. Don't see it that often on dry days. Hopefully he can continue and looks like that goal has given him confidence plus being hopefully over his calf issue.

[joekim87]

Any way to fit both Hendo and Can on the pitch at the same time?

[BEAST]

For all your bleating about logic, you appear to have none. You have gone and compared a professional footballer executing a skill for which he is paid to have a high level of mastery and control over with pulling a particular card seemingly at random from a deck (something no-one anywhere would have any control over, by definition). You have then inferred that I have equated wages with 100% conversion of chances, which I have not done. Finally, you have then agreed with me on the conclusion which is that 'he should have scored'.

That players of all qualities miss from time to time is stating the obvious. The point being that the highest quality players do it on a far less frequent basis than the lesser quality players. That is why they are considered higher quality, and often paid more as a result. My post has nothing to about relative abilities of Lallana or Aguero or anyone else. That has nothing to do with the argument, which is that we should expect our top performers to score easy chances in crucial moments because these moments are significant in determining our success over the season. Had it been Woodburn or Ojo that had missed the chance, then we'd probably have a much lower level of expectation. In contrast, had Mignolet or Karius, or any of the defenders made a howler at 1-0 up that cost us 2 points, then they'd have been pilloried for it.

Wrong wrong wrong. 

If you dig into the numbers of the most prolific scorers it becomes obvious that the reason certain players score a tonne of goals (ie Aguero, Suarez, Ronaldo, Messi, Ibra, et al) is heavily influenced by the fact that they TAKE a tonne of shots per game, not that they have some ungodly conversion rate.

Even the goal scoring Gods (basically just Messi and Ronaldo) have conversion rates that aren't massively better than very good strikers, they're only a little better.

You can probably compile a 10 minute YouTube clip of the number of sitters that Aguero and Suarez have run their entire career .... and you know why their video would be so long?

Because the real skill of a goal scorer is in getting their shot off .... a great goal scorer is getting more shots, they're not burying more of the shots they get.

This myth of the "clinical" striker who always seems to bury his 1 shot a game allowing his team to win 1-0 is just British pundit fantasy.

[Snoopy29]

Klavan had to fuck that up didn't he?

[Kansti]

I think Henderson controls the game better than Emre Can. He has the ability to take the ball and pass with purpose and get us on the attack quickly. He's better on the floor with his passing, he really fizzes the ball into players whereas Emre can be quite slow, takes 3/4 touches where Henderson may take 2. Henderson has the ability to control the speed of a game, and in big away games it's really important. At 1-0 today the game was fucking hectic, and It needed someone to get their foot on the ball and keep it ticking. We kept loosing the ball over and over. Yes it's great when Emre drives forward it's brilliant, I loved it today, but is that what you want from your deepest midfielder? Maybe. I don't know.

I think Henderson controls the referee better than Emre. I agree Emre is better carrying the ball forward. Henderson's long passing is also better than Emre's, but Emre is more of a goal threat. There's not much in it, and I'm not even a Henderson fanboy, I just personally think Henderson is a better player.

I will caveat this by saying Klopp has a lot of time for Emre. Whenever he's been fit he's put him in the team, this season and last. Perhps it's the German connection.

I think your point on Henderson being able to get us on the attack quickly is a very valid point. But I don't think Henderson controls the speed of the game for us. Imo Gini and Lallana do that more so than Henderson. Can has his flaws, but I think him at the base of midfield opens up more angles for us in midfield, as he is quite willing and seems more comfortable to pass with his weaker foot.

[penga]

Wrong wrong wrong. 

If you dig into the numbers of the most prolific scorers it becomes obvious that the reason certain players score a tonne of goals (ie Aguero, Suarez, Ronaldo, Messi, Ibra, et al) is heavily influenced by the fact that they TAKE a tonne of shots per game, not that they have some ungodly conversion rate.

Even the goal scoring Gods (basically just Messi and Ronaldo) have conversion rates that aren't massively better than very good strikers, they're only a little better.

You can probably compile a 10 minute YouTube clip of the number of sitters that Aguero and Suarez have run their entire career .... and you know why their video would be so long?

Because the real skill of a goal scorer is in getting their shot off .... a great goal scorer is getting more shots, they're not burying more of the shots they get.

This myth of the "clinical" striker who always seems to bury his 1 shot a game allowing his team to win 1-0 is just British pundit fantasy.

Agreed although that 1 shot a game fantasy striker has a habit of turning up against us quite often from the small teams lol!

[Alan_X]

Not for us, the most difficult ones remain.

Posted in the run-in thread:

Results this season against the teams on the run-in:

Everton Away: Won 1-0
Bournemouth Away: Lost 3-4
Stoke Home: Won 4-1
West Brom Home: Won 2-1
Crystal Palace Away: Won 4-2
Watford Home: Won 6-1
Southampton Away: Draw 0-0
West Ham Home: Draw 2-2
Middlesborough Away: Won 3-0

Why is that a terrible set of games? Bournemouth was a one in a hundred game and away from home, dropping points at home against West Ham is probably the worst of the rest. 6 wins (scoring 20 goals), 2 draws and a solitary defeat would give us 76 points. I think we'll do better than that.

Six mid-table teams (including Everton), two in relegation trouble and one somewhere in between.

[Lycan]

Posted in the run-in thread:

Six mid-table teams (including Everton), two in relegation trouble and one somewhere in between.

Wasn't that around the time teams weren't exactly 'parking the bus' against us though? Only West Brom played that way if memory serves me correctly.

Not saying we can't win our remaining games by the way. Just got to find a formula to breaking teams who play a low block aginst us. It can be done.

[Crosby Nick]

Wasn't that around the time teams weren't exactly 'parking the bus' against us though? Only West Brom played that way if memory serves me correctly.

Not saying we can't win our remaining games by the way. Just got to find a formula to breaking teams who play a low block aginst us. It can be done.

Stoke game was over Christmas when they scored first and made life difficult for.half an hour but we blew them away in the end.

See Klavan getting some stick here. Maybe his positioning was slightly off but City were knocking and knocking and sometimes you have to credit the opposition. It was a fantastic ball in from De Bruyne.

[NarutoReds]

Liverpool must conquer late-game fatigue to claim top-four finish
BY MARK OGDEN, SENIOR FOOTBALL WRITER, 9 hours ago
Source: www.espnfc.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
But just as at Old Trafford in January, when Liverpool faded badly and threw away victory by allowing Zlatan Ibrahimovic to equalise in the final 10 minutes, Klopp's players were unable to finish the job on the other side of Manchester.
   
They had the chances to do so, none better than when Adam Lallana was unable to convert Roberto Firmino's cross into a gaping goal from 6 yards after 80 minutes. The England international looked weary, and his mistake was reflective of the final stages as a whole, when it appeared Liverpool were playing in quicksand.
 
Liverpool have been out of both cups for weeks, with only the Premier League to focus on, but Klopp's men are not playing with the same energy and freedom as Chelsea, who also have enjoyed a campaign without the physical demands of European competition. The leaders have played just 35 games overall, but they are cruising by contrast.

[Lycan]

Stoke game was over Christmas when they scored first and made life difficult for.half an hour but we blew them away in the end.

Oh yeah. You're right. Another game that Alan left off his list was Sunderland at home as well. That was a dire game. But we managed to win. So we have shown we have it in us to win those sort of games. Just got to find a way to do it on a more consistent basis.

[jillcwhomever]

Yeah. The consequences to the Lalana miss very significant.
We are still behind Manchester City who has a game in hand. ManUre are gobbling up the points behind us.

Plus the fact we suckered Manchester City into going for a win and hot them on the break. Hit them we did, on the break.
Score, we di not. The consequences could be missin out on the top 4

Yes right after a game like yesterday just look on the negative side. I will tell you one thing United are not good enough to go the rest of the season unbeaten. They will drop points probably starting in the Manc derby. Say nothing of the fact that they have to compete in the Europa as well. I really don't 
understand the fear some of our supporters have for them. If we play like we did yesterday we will finish in the top four, we just have to get more ruthless that's all.

[Chris~]

Liverpool must conquer late-game fatigue to claim top-four finish
BY MARK OGDEN, SENIOR FOOTBALL WRITER, 9 hours ago
Source: www.espnfc.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
But just as at Old Trafford in January, when Liverpool faded badly and threw away victory by allowing Zlatan Ibrahimovic to equalise in the final 10 minutes, Klopp's players were unable to finish the job on the other side of Manchester.
   
They had the chances to do so, none better than when Adam Lallana was unable to convert Roberto Firmino's cross into a gaping goal from 6 yards after 80 minutes. The England international looked weary, and his mistake was reflective of the final stages as a whole, when it appeared Liverpool were playing in quicksand.
 
Liverpool have been out of both cups for weeks, with only the Premier League to focus on, but Klopp's men are not playing with the same energy and freedom as Chelsea, who also have enjoyed a campaign without the physical demands of European competition. The leaders have played just 35 games overall, but they are cruising by contrast.

Ignoring Chelsea away, Spurs at home, Arsenal away and at home, Everton away when looking at late game fatigue. When you play very good sides you aren't going to win and look amazing every game, shocking. Load of crap from a manc fan.

[Upinsmoke]

Quite happy this morning.

[jillcwhomever]

Ignoring Chelsea away, Spurs at home, Arsenal away and at home, Everton away when looking at late game fatigue. When you play very good sides you aren't going to win and look amazing every game, shocking. Load of crap from a manc fan.

It's quite funny when he is highlighting our failures over Christmas he fails to point out that we were minus crucial players as well. Some of the media who are peddling desperate fantasy shite about us, its almost as if they don't want to see us back. Maybe they fear the consequence of us being back, and they need to. When the manager gets the team the way he wants them, they will have to come up with better stuff then currently doing the rounds.   

[Mahern]

Don't think so. I quite like him as a ref. He (they) possibly got a couple of decisions wrong but this happens. I like the way he refs. It was an absolute smasher of a game with a lot of incident. The ref did not spoil it for me.

I don't mind him missing stuff or making mistakes, we both lost and gained in this match.

What I do resent is him 'managing' the game rather than applying the laws. Toure should have walked, but Oliver's ego got the better of him here, would not let him back down from his predisposition to keep 22 men on the pitch.

[jillcwhomever]

Quite happy this morning.

Absolutely. To be honest the most important thing is we tried to win the game. Lets be honest we've been in positions before in other seasons, when we have lacked the bravery to go for a win, and end up playing safe and paid the price. But yesterday we did everything we could, the goal just didn't come. That's football. But if we play anything like we can, we know this is doable now. Just pray that everyone comes back safe and sound from the internationals.

[Red Army]

 

http://imgur.com/a/JyFmo

[Giono]

http://imgur.com/a/JyFmo

What was that? I don't understand what Pep was on about?

[vicar]

Michael oliver turning into dross of a ref.

He used to be one of the better ones, but has looked shakey recently.
I think the two pens not being given are understandable as both were difficult to see real time, but Toure's kick to Can's chest is a red and he is standing 4 feet away.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

This is a pile of steaming absolute horse shite.

Corrected it for you.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

Don't think so. I quite like him as a ref. He (they) possibly got a couple of decisions wrong but this happens. I like the way he refs. It was an absolute smasher of a game with a lot of incident. The ref did not spoil it for me.

Michael oliver turning into dross of a ref.

Agree with this. By trying not to influence the game, he very much influenced the game. How he didn't send Toure off is beyond me. Not a lot force in it, but he had ample time to bend his leading leg, but chose to keep it straight and put it in Can's chest. Clear intent.

[Alan_X]

What was that? I don't understand what Pep was on about?

16.47 would probably have been the Firmino booking.

[Petadroli]

What a brilliant game to watch! I think my heart stopped when Lallana and Aguero managed to scuff these chances. Incredible! The referee performance was dubious at best, although the linesmen did get all the offsides right.

[killer-heels]

It was a good point but yesterday illustrated the difference between us and Chelsea. In both matches the hosts missed chances and were the stronger (albeit we didnt get outplayed whilst for the first half Chelsea did). However when Chelsea got their opportunities then they took them and were clinical.

Still a good point. They are the most dangerous team to face in this league.

[clinical]

Any way to fit both Hendo and Can on the pitch at the same time?

no

Well maybe if you put Can DM and push Henderson forward

[harryc]

no

Well maybe if you put Can DM and push Henderson forward

You can make a case for Gini playing further forward and dropping Coutinho.

[telekon]

Some bizarre decisions going against us. How could Toure still be on the field after that studs up tackle in the chest(!) and how did Otamendi not get a red card when fouling Mané as he was a bout to score? Unbelievable decisions.

We were great though.

I was cracking up at how absolutely shite Sterling is. He keeps on delivering comedy gold. 50 million for him was the best deal we ever made.