Topic: Trent Alexander-Arnold

[Gerry Attrick]

I won't judge him too harshly for today, Zaha can have absolutely any full back in this league on toast when he's at it.

[Zlen]

I think he was slightly harshly judged today because everyone was watching the game with an eye on City and him starting against Sane and Silva exploiting his space. It was very disappointing to concede a carbon copy of the goal against Manchester United, but for better or worse we are stuck with Trent now. I hope others help him and the crowd encourages him. 

[Chris~]

That was the exact point I was making. Great potential but it’s not the fact he is making mistakes, that’s how you learn. Making the same mistakes time and time again is the worry.

I mean it's 2 games. You're making it sound like it's been all season.

[bornandbRED]

He needs a steak or two to bulk up and be able to physically compete with the better wingers in the league, because it's looked like man vs boy at times. Disappointing to see the same mistake made twice today as vs Man Utd - hopefully he'll have learnt from that now.

Those crosses are something though.

[Giono]

He wasn’t expecting to play this many matches. I’m sure it is not ideal for his development. Clyne coming back is a goid thing. Maybe TAA will be rested against City?


One of the things that makes TAA getting targetted even worse is when the leftback on the opposite side who is being ignored makes so little from so much permission to get forward. At least if the leftback took advantage, our opponent’s concentration on TAA could have a downside.

[Hazell]

AA didn’t play that badly - it’s starting to become a snowball effect by posters. He’s the only option that can make up ground due to his speed and will support the attack. He was really good in attack today.

Yeah, a nineteen yer old kid who's had a very good season. He'll make more mistakes for us, though I'm pretty sure Klopp will have more patience than some of our fans. And was good going forward too.

[Giono]

Yeah, a nineteen yer old kid who's had a very good season. He'll make more mistakes for us, though I'm pretty sure Klopp will have more patience than some of our fans. And was good going forward too.

He is going to be better eventually than many players on the pitch today. His crosses have so much more intent than others. He is just adjusting to playing at this level with better players and against veteran players. I have no doubt that hebis in Klopp’s plans the way he has been included early in the first team and how he has been groomed. I don’t think Klopp planned on him having the spotlight so often though.

[Caligula?]

Klopp needs to spend a lot of time with him between now and Wednesday, and show him hours and hours of Sane's play.

[BabuYagu]

Klopp needs to spend a lot of time with him between now and Wednesday, and show him hours and hours of Sane's play.

It ultimately won't matter if we don't put pressure on the ball or drop off when there is no pressure on the ball. You have to be doing one of those things.

I remember the first goal we conceded against Hoffenheim still - it was exactly the same. No pressure on the ball, defence doesn't drop off, a stationary full back getting picked off by a runner. There was a clip of exactly the same thing in pre-season training with Firmino getting in behind Moreno. Not his fault, there was just no pressure on the ball and we were holding the line - wrongly. He cannot step up alone. Or drop off as it's not his call. So he is left standing.



These sorts of runs in this gif are the ones Sane makes continuously. He holds a very high and wide starting position hoping to isolate a full back, stretch sides horizontally or be left in free for quick diagonal balls to put him in running behind the defence.

We need to be aware of that as a unit, be compact in midfield, maintain good defensive access, maintain pressure on the ball, not let De Bruyne & Silva get time, touches and their heads up and, if they do, the defence needs to be organised and drop off on queue. This will mean giving Man City space in front of the defence but that is far favourable to space in behind.

[na fir dearg]

Needs to rested for a bit, too many games for someone so young. He's being targeted by teams now

[Sat1]

Learning his trade this year. Last few games have been hard but he’ll come through it.

If he plays against city, they’ll target him

[dimwit]

Should start at home against UAE, but Clyne for the away leg, IF he gets time against the bitters.

[Dougle]

Never hides. Courageous.
Did some really good stuff today.
For sure got caught staying out too far in the first half and arguably the opposite in the second half but Zaha is really tricky, goes both ways, fast, well balanced so any full back, alone,would have a tough time with him. Saying that for all his possession he didn't produce anything in the second half.
I like TAA a lot, he's the best 19 yr old converted midfelder playing right back with probably around 20 starts we have on our books so rock on dude.

[BabuYagu]

Never hides. Courageous.
Did some really good stuff today.
For sure got caught staying out too far in the first half and arguably the opposite in the second half but Zaha is really tricky, goes both ways, fast, well balanced so any full back, alone,would have a tough time with him. Saying that for all his possession he didn't produce anything in the second half.
I like TAA a lot, he's the best 19 yr old converted midfelder playing right back with probably around 20 starts we have on our books so rock on dude.

I disagree, I think he is the worst 19 yr old converted midfielder playing right back with probably around 20 starts we have on our books.

He has some little adjustments to make to his game, but he will get there. For me he is the best fit to the role of all our right backs. Clyne is excellent defensively but needs to offer more on the ball. Gomez has some defensive issues in terms of awareness and dealing with balls in flight - issues that I think are more serious in nature and a lot harder (if not impossible) to resolve. With young players though you just need to eat some mistakes from time to time. In the short term it might sting a little, in the medium and long term though it is more than worth it.

[RedForeverTT]

That was the exact point I was making. Great potential but it’s not the fact he is making mistakes, that’s how you learn. Making the same mistakes time and time again is the worry.

It is his slow learning process that worries me. Like he totally forgot that lesson learned on the Man Utd game. Today was just Zaha but Wednesday night it could be any of Gabriel Jesus, Sane, Sterling giving him the run around.

Football is a cut throat world and a club like Liverpool certainly will not be having the patience to wait forever for someone to develop. Either he kick on or Clyne will just walk back into the squad.

He is really not learning fast enough.

[Djimi Smicer34]

It is his slow learning process that worries me. Like he totally forgot that lesson learned on the Man Utd game. Today was just Zaha but Wednesday night it could be any of Gabriel Jesus, Sane, Sterling giving him the run around.

Football is a cut throat world and a club like Liverpool certainly will not be having the patience to wait forever for someone to develop. Either he kick on or Clyne will just walk back into the squad.

He is really not learning fast enough.

How fast should he be learning?

It's as though the United and Palace games have completely erased everything else he's done over the past 12-18 months. 

[Redshadow]

He didn't play well; he's lost his form somewhat now, but that is to expect from such a young player. Looking forward to see him back as it will be great sign of a very good player in the making

[vivabobbygraham]

It is his slow learning process that worries me. Like he totally forgot that lesson learned on the Man Utd game. Today was just Zaha but Wednesday night it could be any of Gabriel Jesus, Sane, Sterling giving him the run around.

Football is a cut throat world and a club like Liverpool certainly will not be having the patience to wait forever for someone to develop. Either he kick on or Clyne will just walk back into the squad.

He is really not learning fast enough.

Clyne has returned to the squad so I suspect you mean the team. He has been out a while, mind and would be a risk for Wednesday. However, Jurgen will have seen him in training and played him consistently last season. Football is a cut throat World to many. Klopp, however, believes in his players and stands by them. You only have to look at his track record in developing young players. He will develop Trent too. You say he is not learning fast enough. Can you show me the chart that signifies this? Has he not learned very quickly, the attacking element of the role? If he is making the same defensive mistakes next season then you may have a case and the boss will have a decision to make. But his progress this season has been marked and augurs well for the future wherever Trent ends up playing. For fucks sake, this kid has the lot and can only get better. He has been exposed twice by two, top drawer players. Are you saying three strikes and he's out?

[BabuYagu]

It is his slow learning process that worries me. Like he totally forgot that lesson learned on the Man Utd game. Today was just Zaha but Wednesday night it could be any of Gabriel Jesus, Sane, Sterling giving him the run around.

Football is a cut throat world and a club like Liverpool certainly will not be having the patience to wait forever for someone to develop. Either he kick on or Clyne will just walk back into the squad.

He is really not learning fast enough.

The first one isn't really his fault. The Palace player looks up, takes 5 touches with the ball and still nobody puts him under pressure. TAA cannot step up as the rest of the defence is then playing Zaha on (plus you just shouldn't try to play offside without pressure on the ball as you get picked off too easily). He also can't drop off - it isn't the rookie defenders call to make. The defence is holding a line and therefore he is stationary which allows Zaha to get a run on him.

He reacts immediately to it, he even sees that it is going to happen and positions his body well to look at both Zaha and the ball so he can set off as soon as the ball is played. But the problem there is in lack of pressure on the ball which is vital if you play a high line, and poor decision making and communication in defence.

So where does the bulk of blame go = midfield. Milner loses the ball. Henderson ends up pressing Zaha. Milner doesn't drop in well enough in the #6 role leaving a big space between the lines. Gini starts pressing the ball then retreats to get in line with Milner - arguably should have just kept pressing in the absence of anybody else but maybe he got a shout to drop back from Milner/Hendo. Hendo recovers his position well but then just stays in line with Milner rather than dropping deeper to give us depth. Milner could press the ball carrier as it's his side and Mane cannot once Hendo and Gini recover but he doesn't. Defence cannot drop as then there would be an ocean of space for Palace to play in and run at them. So they need to expose themselves and try to hold a line that they really shouldn't. Once again stuck between a rock and a hard place by poor midfield play. None of them get it right, although Milner's errors are huge in comparison to the other two.

So we have a defence needing to take risks due to inadequate protection from midfield.

The penalty was just a farce all round. Looks like Zaha simply beat him for pace as his starting position and reactions were both fine. The problem there is Henderson not getting in front of Benteke, not even getting off the ground, Matip stepping out to challenge, then deciding to not bother challenging. VVD position is fine but he needs to be the spare man there. Instead he is marking Townsend that Milner hasn't tracked. With Townsend central, Robertson could be closer to VVD to offer cover given he is the spare man on the back line now. But that is nitpicking. Again though the main problems are
1. Midfield not protecting defence on the first ball (Henderson)
2. Poor decision from Matip / Passive play in not challenging Benteke
3. Not tracking a run into the space Matip vacated (Milner)
4. Robertson not covering as the free man on the back line (very minor compared to the main three).

If our midfield is going to make mistakes like that, defenders will get picked off by runners. It is unavoidable. The solution is to solve the problems in front of them.

[mickeydocs]

The first one isn't really his fault...

Wow, just wow. Some of the posts on here are incredibly insightful. Thank you.

[didi shamone]

How fast should he be learning?

It's as though the United and Palace games have completely erased everything else he's done over the past 12-18 months.

Before Wednesday would be great .   
Seriously though I really like the kid. We'll hopefully have a cunning plan to give him more protection by then. I still consider Robertson a young defender at just turned 24. He should improve a lot. TAA is a child. If he can iron out the defensive side of his game he'll be a better player than Andy. Just as well the manager is more patient than the fans.

[DefJack]

Here is an image clearly demonstrating that Trent hasn't learned from his "catastrophic" performance against Manchester United and that he is criminally unaware of players runs when balls are played in behind him.

His "slow learning process" ultimately costing us a penalty a necessitating the immediate return of Nathaniel Clyne into the line up, or even better, the ever reliable James Milner:



Oh wait no it doesn't.


While Trent could afford to be a couple of feet closer to Van Dijk, his overall postioning and awareness is fine, his body is open and angled to where he may need to run and he's ready to immediately break into a full sprint off his first stride to challenge Zaha for the ball.

In this situation he's actually in the best body position out all of our back line.

However a hilarious comedy of errors occur around him which I won't go into detail on, but involve Matip doing his best Lovren vs Lukaku impression, stepping out of the backline to fondle Benteke's backside, but then do nothing, only for Henderson to take over the bum fondling, just to literally stand and watch him head the ball. Karius's decision to challenge is also questionable.

There's very little he can do in that situation, he just loses a foot race.


But, I hear you cry, remember that one before hand where he ballsed it all up and Karius had to spare his blushes:



Except he didn't.

In this second situation he's unfortunately had to kill his momentum to hold a line that really shouldn't be stationary, given that there is a threat in behind and no pressure on the ball (Dick Bate does a quality session on this on youtube). However his positioning both on the pitch and with his body is fine and he's more than aware of the threat.

Believe me, as someone who grew up playing right back as I wasn't very good, Trent is more than aware of the threat in behind and is doing everything he's been taught to try and control the situation.

Ultimately, Trent is continually receiving blame for the mistakes of senior players around him. Won't go into too much detail but one glance at our midfield should be plenty to explain what went wrong.

I was going to go into a big explanation of everything that went wrong around him but I've seen Baba has done a tremendous and thorough job of that, so I won't bother.

But for the love of god lay off the kid.

[Redinho]

I think the thing I like most about him as a young lad is just his persistence to keep going regardless of what happened earlier in the match, bodes well for the future.

[BabuYagu]

Here is an image clearly demonstrating that Trent hasn't learned from his "catastrophic" performance against Manchester United and that he is criminally unaware of players runs when balls are played in behind him.

His "slow learning process" ultimately costing us a penalty a necessitating the immediate return of Nathaniel Clyne into the line up, or even better, the ever reliable James Milner:



Oh wait no it doesn't.


While Trent could afford to be a couple of feet closer to Van Dijk, his overall postioning and awareness is fine, his body is open and angled to where he may need to run and he's ready to immediately break into a full sprint off his first stride to challenge Zaha for the ball.

In this situation he's actually in the best body position out all of our back line.

However a hilarious comedy of errors occur around him which I won't go into detail on, but involve Matip doing his best Lovren vs Lukaku impression, stepping out of the backline to fondle Benteke's backside, but then do nothing, only for Henderson to take over the bum fondling, just to literally stand and watch him head the ball. Karius's decision to challenge is also questionable.

There's very little he can do in that situation, he just loses a foot race.


But, I hear you cry, remember that one before hand where he ballsed it all up and Karius had to spare his blushes:



Except he didn't.

In this second situation he's unfortunately had to kill his momentum to hold a line that really shouldn't be stationary, given that there is a threat in behind and no pressure on the ball (Dick Bate does a quality session on this on youtube). However his positioning both on the pitch and with his body is fine and he's more than aware of the threat.

Believe me, as someone who grew up playing right back as I wasn't very good, Trent is more than aware of the threat in behind and is doing everything he's been taught to try and control the situation.

Ultimately, Trent is continually receiving blame for the mistakes of senior players around him. Won't go into too much detail but one glance at our midfield should be plenty to explain what went wrong.

I was going to go into a big explanation of everything that went wrong around him but I've seen Baba has done a tremendous and thorough job of that, so I won't bother.

But for the love of god lay off the kid.

Fucking outstanding post.

I think sometimes there is an overly simplistic method of apportioning blame. Karius fouled Zaha. If he doesn't then it wouldn't be a penalty. = Karius error. But who was marking Zaha? TAA. So then he shouldn't have let him go. So both at fault then.

In reality you need to go back in most plays to the point where attacking phase is breaking down and go from there then catalogue the errors. You can usually infer based on best practices with Klopp what players should be doing and from that see who is likely not following instructions, who is out of position, who is not tracking runners, etc. It is never a simple process but it is a heck of a lot fairer and more accurate than pointing the finger at who failed to stop the goal once 10 or so mistakes have already been made.

[xbugawugax]

some awesome stuff in here

but its easier to pick one scapegoat then get informed on the nuances of the game

just something at the top of my head. If we decide to concede the width as we know our full backs aren't up to the task, can we then reinforce the middle to prevent situation from getting worse. maybe a proper DM(DM ultras assemble) the likes Masch, Hamann, Kante, Lucas who can read defensive situations better might help control the situation better. Our current CM like Emre seem to switch off constantly and our Captain seems to be attracted to the ball too often to read the play and prevent situation from getting overloaded.

[nico 8]

I won't judge him too harshly for today, Zaha can have absolutely any full back in this league on toast when he's at it.

Totally agree. It becomes a team responsibility. Imagine how many left backs should be binned after playing against Salah.

[nico 8]

He needs a steak or two to bulk up and be able to physically compete with the better wingers in the league, because it's looked like man vs boy at times. Disappointing to see the same mistake made twice today as vs Man Utd - hopefully he'll have learnt from that now.

Those crosses are something though.

Bulking up is easy but the wrong thing to do. See Gomez as an example. TAA is still a boy and it is about physical development from boy to man. Some mature sooner than others.

[RedForeverTT]

Totally agree. It becomes a team responsibility. Imagine how many left backs should be binned after playing against Salah.

True, but TAA has the benefit of training with Salah everyday but actually played against someone of lower quality - Rashford and Zaha, and committed identical mistakes in the space of 4 weeks. I suspect this is not coincidental and worried he is not learning.

Maybe it is age thing too but his shoulders dropped very quickly. It wasn’t until after half time, maybe some words in the dressing room that helped to lift his spirits again, which is nice to see.

On Wednesday things will come in thick and fast he won’t get back that same kind of benefit. City is not going to go easy on him because he is “young and inexperienced”

[FlashGordon]

I fucking despair at this place at times. I try to stay away from the main boards these days because it's full of self entitled whoppers who want everything here and now. The type of fellas who bemoan the fact we don't produce any of our own players but then go on to slate a young scouser, who has shown many times what a talent he may become, for a rocky few minutes in a game. Shock horror a young player isn't as switched on as a full international defender.

[spider-neil]

Dust yourself down. Learn from your mistake and move on.
Mistakes increase your experience and experiences decrease your mistakes

[So… Howard Philips]

I fucking despair at this place at times. I try to stay away from the main boards these days because it's full of self entitled whoppers who want everything here and now. The type of fellas who bemoan the fact we don't produce any of our own players but then go on to slate a young scouser, who has shown many times what a talent he may become, for a rocky few minutes in a game. Shock horror a young player isn't as switched on as a full international defender.

And the same hypocrites criticise Mourinho for not playing youngsters.

[Robotforaday]

Thought Shearer had some really good positive points about TAA's game on MOTD. Don't always pay too much attention to him, but I think he was spot on to pick up on how positively TAA responded and how instrumental he was in the second half.

Any blert saying he's not learning fast enough would do well to pay heed.

[Pradan]

Worry about him against City.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

Worry about him against City.

They will clearly target our right side. Our left is strongest in the league imo with VVD and Robertson.

I hope Clyne is ready for City. If not him then Gomez, or Milner or even Can.

[Sinyoro]

Worry about him against City.

You shouldn't worry at all, there will be very few second balls to contest. City do not have a Benteke or Lukaku type to lump the ball to. Our game against City will depend a lot on how our midfielders play. City might try to bypass the press by asking their keeper to go long to Sane so that Trent has to contest for the long ball over the top, not the second ball from a header.
I really think that City are easy to play against because there are clear patterns to how they play. They just have more superior players to most teams. Klopp will have a plan to disrupt their rhythm.
Relax and enjoy the two legs. It is highly likely that we will finish the job at the Etihad, like we did against Portoat the Dragao. We are probably the most dangerous team away from home.

[daggerdoo]

I'd like him to stay more focussed in situations being mentioned. Noticed him being a bit far away from his opponent, getting turned or being wrong side on plenty of occasions for us and the national u21s. But to be honest i'd be surprised if he wasn't making these mistakes now and then.

I was very annoyed after the goals at ot and the goal against cp yesterday, but having let the dust settle i can't stay annoyed at TAA. He's a proper asset with qualities that most top teams would love to have and be bringing through their ranks. He offers a threat from wide right, for a fullback, which we haven't had for years and years (though i still love Clyne and what he brings) and i don't actually think he's bad at the defensive side of things. Thinking about it, a TAA-Clyne hybrid would be the best fu##ing fullback in the world. Working with and competing with Clyne should help hone his defensive game and i'm looking forward to watching him develop as a player, whether that be as a fullback or midfielder, and contribute to another successful spell in our clubs history.

[BabuYagu]

They will clearly target our right side. Our left is strongest in the league imo with VVD and Robertson.

I hope Clyne is ready for City. If not him then Gomez, or Milner or even Can.

Just once yesterday Milner ended up in a 1-v-1 situation in a full back position yesterday. Wan-Bissaka jogged past him like it was the easiest thing to do in the world. Because it probably is that easy now that he has lost whatever explosiveness he once had. And that is Wan-Bissaka not Townsend, Zaha or anybody even close to the level of Sane.

It was similar earlier in the season when he didn't have the legs to keep up with Dembele. Not he of Barcelona pricetag but of Spurs. Aurier also effectively walked past him twice in that game. In the two 1-v-1 situations he was in against Zaha in pre-season, one he was beaten standing the other he ended up on his hoop not sure what happened.

If you are afraid of Sane's pace v Trent then the solution isn't a 33 year old who is struggling with the likes of Wan-Bissaka, Aurier and Mousa Dembele.

And I won't even touch the idea of Can. Let's just save a lot of typing and say that concentration, awareness and tracking runners is something he isn't famously brilliant at.

Likewise Gomez who has been skinned by Albrighton & Zuber. Plus the silly free-kick he gave away first game of the season to Watford when he came on as he couldn't simply shepherd a player away from goal ultimately resulting in their equaliser. There were other moments too against Sevilla, Leicester in the league cup, losing Lanzini a couple of times against West Ham, and numerous other times where he has just completely lost flight of the ball in the air - one of which was actually against Sane in the 4-3 game. He then got back into position, got skinned, then Sane scored.

Gomez just isn't a full back in my opinion. Against players with better agility and a low center of gravity he is easily beaten. He often stands off to compensate and allows in easy crosses (e.g. Sevilla) and really struggles with long diagonal balls going over his head which City play as a routine into Sane.

I'd be more confident with Trent against Sane than any other available match up without going completely left field. He has the build and athleticism to deal with a tricky winger and a very strong mentality to quickly get over set backs.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Don’t get why people are worried for the City game. He was exposed against United and Palace from a big striker winning a flick on from a long ball. That’s not going to happen on Wednesday.

What will happen is that Sane will get the ball to feet and try and do him one on one, but I’d much rather Trent be defending those than a rusty Clyne or a slowing Milner. It’s also going to be on Salah and our midfield to help double up.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

Just once yesterday Milner ended up in a 1-v-1 situation in a full back position yesterday. Wan-Bissaka jogged past him like it was the easiest thing to do in the world. Because it probably is that easy now that he has lost whatever explosiveness he once had. And that is Wan-Bissaka not Townsend, Zaha or anybody even close to the level of Sane.

It was similar earlier in the season when he didn't have the legs to keep up with Dembele. Not he of Barcelona pricetag but of Spurs. Aurier also effectively walked past him twice in that game. In the two 1-v-1 situations he was in against Zaha in pre-season, one he was beaten standing the other he ended up on his hoop not sure what happened.

If you are afraid of Sane's pace v Trent then the solution isn't a 33 year old who is struggling with the likes of Wan-Bissaka, Aurier and Mousa Dembele.

And I won't even touch the idea of Can. Let's just save a lot of typing and say that concentration, awareness and tracking runners is something he isn't famously brilliant at.

Likewise Gomez who has been skinned by Albrighton & Zuber. Plus the silly free-kick he gave away first game of the season to Watford when he came on as he couldn't simply shepherd a player away from goal ultimately resulting in their equaliser. There were other moments too against Sevilla, Leicester in the league cup, losing Lanzini a couple of times against West Ham, and numerous other times where he has just completely lost flight of the ball in the air - one of which was actually against Sane in the 4-3 game. He then got back into position, got skinned, then Sane scored.

Gomez just isn't a full back in my opinion. Against players with better agility and a low center of gravity he is easily beaten. He often stands off to compensate and allows in easy crosses (e.g. Sevilla) and really struggles with long diagonal balls going over his head which City play as a routine into Sane.

I'd be more confident with Trent against Sane than any other available match up without going completely left field. He has the build and athleticism to deal with a tricky winger and a very strong mentality to quickly get over set backs.

Clyne is an obvious choice, if he's fit and ready. If not, i would rather have Gomez than TAA. They won't really hit us with pace, since they don't play counter attacking. Gomez is better in close stopped 1v1 situations, and closing down the angle. Also, Sane is quite an unit, and Gomez won't struggle that much with his physicality.

[Djimi Smicer34]

Clyne is an obvious choice, if he's fit and ready. If not, i would rather have Gomez than TAA. They won't really hit us with pace, since they don't play counter attacking. Gomez is better in close stopped 1v1 situations, and closing down the angle. Also, Sane is quite an unit, and Gomez won't struggle that much with his physicality.

Gomez is injured.

Whoever starts at right-back against Sane is going to be in for a proper test given that he is one of the best players around at the moment.  If Klopp trusts Trent to handle that, I'd have absolutely no issue with his decision.