Author Topic: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell  (Read 449753 times)

Offline Ipcress

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #480 on: August 16, 2016, 05:29:53 pm »
I'm sceptical that it's going to be a case of Moreno against certain teams and Milner against others.

I think Klopp is going to have a first choice and whoever that is is going to play the majority of games.  I don't see us chopping and changing at left-back.

I must admit, I do prefer a settled back 4, but if both Milner and Moreno are capable enough (in Klopps eyes) and he has time to train the team to play with either, then I believe it's a possibility.
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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #481 on: August 16, 2016, 05:48:58 pm »
I'm sceptical that it's going to be a case of Moreno against certain teams and Milner against others.

I think Klopp is going to have a first choice and whoever that is is going to play the majority of games.  I don't see us chopping and changing at left-back.
I agree, Klopp has said last week we won't be rotating much this season.
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Offline Doc Red

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #482 on: August 16, 2016, 05:53:22 pm »
Here is a weird answer to your question but..... maybe the problem isn´t what he is doing but the great frequency these things are happening in very dangerous positions. If Klopp wants a risk taker at full back... someone who is going to attack the ball when it is played into our pressing traps, then telling him to be cautious tackling is counter productive. Now maybe Moreno will learn where it is too high a risk to make such tackles and stop as such. But I think at the moment, Klopp is needing to be overly positive with the player, 100%  support, simply because he is getting the opposite from fans and media. He wants Moreno to know that the only opinion that matters on him is 100% behind him. This in turn can make it harder for him to do his job as he is suddenly needing to balance the psychology aspect with the need to punish and reward.

Good example is this. Mané played a blinder. Scored one of the best goals I´ve seen in a while. He will have absolutely no criticism coming at him, except from Klopp. Because this is the time he can do so and know it won´t negatively affect things in the future. So he goes onto the pitch, gets in his face, tells him exactly the problems he had with him. Then hugs him and walks away. Contrast that to how he approaches Moreno after the game - do you think he believes Moreno made fewer mistakes than Mané. Or performed better? And if you think the answer is no, then ask why he is doing what he does then.

Another great post!
Though I'm not certain I agree with your latter sentence, or at least the implication (if I've understood it correctly). I don't think the difference in his post match interaction can be solely attributed to how well they played OR his emotional understanding of their situation and need (the latter seems to be what you're implying). Another possibility can be that a player (Mane in this case) played quite well, but didn't stick to the gameplan that Klopp gave him. And even though Moreno made a mistake and wasn't among our best 3 players on the day, he actually stuck to the gameplan.

Both players seem to have different ceilings, and sometimes it can make sense to be harder on the players with greater potential and quality, if only because maintaining their form is still good (but not great), and only showing their mistakes even after they've played well, will resonate more with them than a complement. But again, this is all conjecture!

Willingness to learn and capacity to learn are two different things. When Klopp first arrived he clearly had a close relationship with Jordan "Ibeee" Ibe and look where he is now. I haven't seen an improvement in the critical elements of Moreno's game in over a season so willing or not some things just aren't sinking in.

Klopp sees more than we do in terms of willingness and capacity so hopefully there are some incremental changes that are going in the right direction, but don't discount Klopp's cold ability to cut the lifeline when he sees that his investment isn't paying off.

I think that's the point many are trying to point out. Klopp doesn't look like the type of managers that plays favourites, simply to make them feel good if even at a detriment to the squad. He'll motivate them, make them feel like they're unstoppable, and if he doesn't see improvements to his likings (or the neccessary dedication and hard work behind the scenes), it seems he has no issues with letting them go. The fact that Ibe is gone, and Moreno is still here, seems to imply that Klopp still sees something in him.

Whereas we tend to focus more on the weaknesses and flaws of our defenders, it's surely likely that Klopp also takes into account the benefits they offer, their potential for growth under his direction, and decides accordingly. It certainly seems like Moreno is here to stay, and has the backing of his manager.
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Offline The Corinth

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #483 on: August 16, 2016, 06:40:35 pm »
Great to see people signing up to RAWK just to slate our players.

I was on RAWK when it was good. I don't remember you though.

Were we safely in possession allowing Moreno to move forward, or in muddled possession for a split second 20 yards from our own goal? I can't be bothered to look because I know what the answer is: 1-0 to the Arsenal.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #484 on: August 16, 2016, 06:45:51 pm »
Not going to bash him but he ain't good enough for me so we need better. We can't have defenders who switch off and dive in recklessly in equal measure, it's a shame as when he concentrates he's pretty decent.

Offline Ratboy3G

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #485 on: August 16, 2016, 06:46:19 pm »
Ok, I've got 'Garbage', 'Brain fart' and 'hyperbole'. I think that's a full house!
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Offline Ratboy3G

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #486 on: August 16, 2016, 06:46:45 pm »
I was on RAWK when it was good. I don't remember you though.

Were we safely in possession allowing Moreno to move forward, or in muddled possession for a split second 20 yards from our own goal? I can't be bothered to look because I know what the answer is: 1-0 to the Arsenal.

I prefer your earlier stuff
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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #487 on: August 16, 2016, 06:48:39 pm »
The best left back in 10 years?

Moreno hasn't been as good as Enrique.

Can't remember the last quality lb we had, can't be Alan Kennedy can it? But to say Moreno is the best in the last ten years is stretching reality to breaking point.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #488 on: August 16, 2016, 06:49:17 pm »

Offline OneTouchFooty

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #489 on: August 16, 2016, 06:57:48 pm »
Can't remember the last quality lb we had, can't be Alan Kennedy can it? But to say Moreno is the best in the last ten years is stretching reality to breaking point.

Aurelio by a mile, injuries aside.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #490 on: August 16, 2016, 07:01:13 pm »
Aurelio by a mile, injuries aside.

Quality yes, hardly played due to his injuries. Other than Aurelio, who else?

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #491 on: August 16, 2016, 07:18:50 pm »
Quality yes, hardly played due to his injuries. Other than Aurelio, who else?

Happily have Riise or Insua ahead of Moreno.
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Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #492 on: August 16, 2016, 07:23:44 pm »
The initial motive behind this thread was genuine and the early debate warranted.

However, the witchhunt it has gone on to precipitate is a fucking disgrace and shows RAWK at its most rancid.

The points made by others which I listed in my last post fully represent the fella's often abject weaknesses as well as his undoubted strengths but the determination of so many to continue espousing their mantras offering what they perceive as validity for their opinion that his weaknesses make him unsuitable as a left back for this club is downright fucking vile and pernicious.

Please mods - close the fucking thread.

Offline Zlen

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #493 on: August 16, 2016, 07:24:22 pm »
I prefer your earlier stuff

Nice one. :)

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #494 on: August 16, 2016, 07:32:47 pm »
The initial motive behind this thread was genuine and the early debate warranted.

However, the witchhunt it has gone on to precipitate is a fucking disgrace and shows RAWK at its most rancid.

The points made by others which I listed in my last post fully represent the fella's often abject weaknesses as well as his undoubted strengths but the determination of so many to continue espousing their mantras offering what they perceive as validity for their opinion that his weaknesses make him unsuitable as a left back for this club is downright fucking vile and pernicious.

Please mods - close the fucking thread.

This please
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Offline John C

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #495 on: August 16, 2016, 07:40:55 pm »
Granted.

Will probably reopen at the weekend on the basis of a propensity to positivity :)

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #496 on: August 19, 2016, 06:48:19 pm »
Say what you like about the mad bastard on the pitch, but I have to say his interview today is a magnificent response to his critics.

Shows real balls that.

Good luck to him.
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Offline cricketrocks

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #497 on: August 19, 2016, 06:55:53 pm »
He should respond on the pitch as well.
To be fair, I thought he showed his character with his second half performance. Many players' heads would have gone.

Offline thisyearisouryear

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #498 on: August 19, 2016, 06:57:57 pm »
The initial motive behind this thread was genuine and the early debate warranted.

However, the witchhunt it has gone on to precipitate is a fucking disgrace and shows RAWK at its most rancid.

The points made by others which I listed in my last post fully represent the fella's often abject weaknesses as well as his undoubted strengths but the determination of so many to continue espousing their mantras offering what they perceive as validity for their opinion that his weaknesses make him unsuitable as a left back for this club is downright fucking vile and pernicious.

Please mods - close the fucking thread.

Spot on and completely agree with this but man Timbo can you write more concise, less verbose sentences  ;D

He should respond on the pitch as well.
True and not losing his confidence is a good start towards that.

Offline Djimi Smicer34

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #499 on: August 19, 2016, 07:02:37 pm »
I like his mentality.

He's clearly got self-confidence and the backing of his manager, hopefully that will inspire a consistent run of good form.


Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #500 on: August 19, 2016, 07:07:38 pm »
After today's PC, I think he'll start tomorrow 
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Offline Raaphael

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #501 on: August 19, 2016, 07:14:13 pm »
People on social media need to chill on this.

Offline newterp

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #502 on: August 19, 2016, 07:30:22 pm »
People on social media need to chill on this.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #503 on: August 19, 2016, 07:42:41 pm »
The initial motive behind this thread was genuine and the early debate warranted.

However, the witchhunt it has gone on to precipitate is a fucking disgrace and shows RAWK at its most rancid.

The points made by others which I listed in my last post fully represent the fella's often abject weaknesses as well as his undoubted strengths but the determination of so many to continue espousing their mantras offering what they perceive as validity for their opinion that his weaknesses make him unsuitable as a left back for this club is downright fucking vile and pernicious.

Please mods - close the fucking thread.
Spot on,  sick of people slagging him off and calling him names. If a player is letting us down with attitude or level of effort they are fair game, but Moreno gives 110%.

Offline lgvkarlos

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #504 on: August 19, 2016, 07:47:46 pm »
Does our team or players need our support when we are 5-0  up or  when we are down or struggling?
Amazing how much more support there is when we are up.

Offline Raaphael

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #505 on: August 19, 2016, 07:49:29 pm »
It`s almost like people on Twitter and other social media think that the more they repeat their dislike of Moreno, somehow action will take place. That the club will somehow react based on this, buy another left back and throw Moreno to the side. Klopp doesn`t give a fuck what other think in that perspective, so I don`t understand why people continue to do this. It seems like people got to have something to be miserable about. How does that help us? How does it help logging onto Instagram, slagging off a guy and break down the confidence of a player who plays for the team you support? Don`t get that. 
« Last Edit: August 19, 2016, 07:52:11 pm by Raaphael »

Offline Upinsmoke

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #506 on: August 19, 2016, 07:52:05 pm »
Moreno's biggest problem is his rashness. He needs to calm down, but I never blame him for being up the pitch because he's instructed to do so as soon as the opportunity arises. Klopp wants him to do that and if he loses possession are gets megged or gives away a pen then yes that's on him but when he's out of position it's because other players have gave the ball away.

Offline lgvkarlos

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #507 on: August 19, 2016, 07:55:15 pm »
It`s almost like people on Twitter and other social media think that the more they repeat their dislike of Moreno, somehow action will take place. That the club will somehow react based on this, buy another left back and throw Moreno to the side. Klopp doesn`t give a fuck what other think in that perspective, so I don`t understand why people continue to do this. It seems like people got to have something to be miserable about. How does that help us? How does it help logging onto Instagram, slagging off a guy and break down the confidence of a player who plays for the team you support? Don`t get that. 
It's all the commentators talk about now, same happened with Sakho.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #508 on: August 19, 2016, 08:23:17 pm »
Happily have Riise or Insua ahead of Moreno.

I wouldn't, but whatever.
Moreno has blistering pace and regardless what people would have you believe, fantastic ability on the ball.
The problem is he is rash and his positional sense is 'off'. Both of which can be worked on on the training pitch.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2016, 08:24:54 pm by spider-neil »

Offline Raaphael

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #509 on: August 19, 2016, 08:55:10 pm »
Happily have Riise or Insua ahead of Moreno.

That`s insane.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #510 on: August 19, 2016, 09:05:42 pm »
Say what you like about the mad bastard on the pitch, but I have to say his interview today is a magnificent response to his critics.

Shows real balls that.

Good luck to him.
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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #511 on: August 19, 2016, 09:23:04 pm »
http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/video/747079235612/Alberto-Moreno-on-criticism

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If selected I hope he has a great game tomorrow.
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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #512 on: August 19, 2016, 09:45:34 pm »
Hoping the lad will play a blinder over the weekend and will shut some of you up :)
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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #513 on: August 19, 2016, 09:52:10 pm »
Hoping the lad will play a blinder over the weekend and will shut some of you up :)

I hope he does. But he needs to do it consistently, because after his next mistake the criticism will be brutal.

Offline John C

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #514 on: August 19, 2016, 09:54:18 pm »
The thread was reopened maintaining its initial title having given people several days to calm down. There's been a lot written and spoken about Moreno which although may not mitigate many fans extreme opinions, some of it should have provided some substance for a more positive discussion while the manager is satisfied to select him.

I'm not sure why people find it necessary to wade in as soon as an opportunity arises. Of course its all in Morenos's hands, he has to win the fans over now because its clear few have time for him. But there'll be another chance for a performance appraisal tomorrow  :wave

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #515 on: August 19, 2016, 09:54:21 pm »
I hope he does. But he needs to do it consistently, because after his next mistake the criticism will be brutal.

Thing is, it's already brutal. Post the Arsenal match, it went way into over drive, both from our fans and the wider media. Like you say, he'll have to be unbelievable for the next few months before he gets any credit.
We have to change from doubter to believer. Now.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #516 on: August 19, 2016, 09:57:03 pm »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #517 on: August 19, 2016, 09:57:17 pm »
Thing is, it's already brutal. Post the Arsenal match, it went way into over drive, both from our fans and the wider media. Like you say, he'll have to be unbelievable for the next few months before he gets any credit.

Post? The half time thread was absolutely horrific. Coutinho had just scored a goal of the season contender away at Arsenal and pretty much every post was slagging off Moreno.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #518 on: August 19, 2016, 09:58:25 pm »
Say what you like about the mad bastard on the pitch, but I have to say his interview today is a magnificent response to his critics.

Shows real balls that.

Good luck to him.

I'd say it's more lack of brains. He's just genuinely oblivious to his constant fuck ups and actually thinks everything's fine...





Nah it's all those nasty social media people. Storm in a teacup. He didn't get hooked in one final last season and cost us another. It was those social media lads that cost us all those goals.
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Re: Alberto Moreno: Ghost in the Shell
« Reply #519 on: August 19, 2016, 09:59:22 pm »
He'll get our support tomorrow, its what we do.
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