Author Topic: The Labour Party (*) (Read 896333 times)

SamAteTheRedAcid · « **Reply #5400 on:** April 4, 2017, 08:24:07 pm »

Quote from: less grotesquely offensive? on April 4, 2017, 08:10:13 pm

Livingstone suspended for a year for his awful comments ...

And then says this...

He literally couldn't give a fuck

So they didn't even bin him off properly, and then he says that? Jesus.

classycarra · « **Reply #5401 on:** April 4, 2017, 09:05:21 pm »

Quote from: Alan_X on April 4, 2017, 06:57:14 pm

I am just sitting here staring at the screen. What the actual fuck is that? There are hundreds of better clip-art buses on on the internet. God forbid they paid someone to draw that.

Don't let that distract you from the incoherent sentence next to it! Bafflingly emboldened too. How can they be that stupid yet so well paid?

classycarra · « **Reply #5402 on:** April 4, 2017, 09:06:37 pm »

Quote from: less grotesquely offensive? on April 4, 2017, 08:10:13 pm

He literally couldn't give a fuck

Corbyn literally couldn't give a fuck about anti-semitism in Labour, and now being (rightly) considered accepting of it. In fact, given Livingstone's favourable treatment and the quid pro quo peerage for Chakrabati, you'd be entitled to think he is in favour of it.

JohnnoWhite · « **Reply #5403 on:** April 4, 2017, 09:08:06 pm »

Quote from: shelts on April 4, 2017, 02:07:20 pm

Exactly what policies have been announced?

It matters not anyway as the country will not vote for Corbyn. I think that much is proven since his election. At an all time low in the polls, double digits behind a government with problems of its own at a point in the parliament when the opposition should be double digits ahead.

Labour are at least twenty points below where they should be at this stage in the parliamentary cycle. Even Miliband was in front at this stage. Worryingly, the polls always overstate Labour's performance so the real position is probably a lot worse than it actually is

You tell me how exactly Corbyn is going to convince the country to vote for him because he is failing to convince even a lifelong supporter and member like myself?

Exactly what policies? What about a government committed to investing in the country's infra-structure? What about a government that would build houses for those who don't have one? What about taking back control of our transport systems? What about funding the NHS instead of handing out billions more in tax cuts for the tax dodgers? Don't our people give a flying fook about REAL social policies that would improve their living standards anymore?

classycarra · « **Reply #5404 on:** April 4, 2017, 09:10:25 pm »

Quote from: JohnnoWhite on April 4, 2017, 09:08:06 pm

Exactly what policies? What about a government committed to investing in the country's infra-structure? What about a government that would build houses for those who don't have one? What about taking back control of our transport systems? What about funding the NHS instead of handing out billions more in tax cuts for the tax dodgers? Don't our people give a flying fook about REAL social policies that would improve their living standards anymore?

He asked you about Labour policy announcements, and that's your response? Lot's of hypothetical questions, none of which related to the question.

classycarra · « **Reply #5405 on:** April 4, 2017, 09:24:37 pm »

Quote from: less grotesquely offensive? on April 4, 2017, 06:45:50 pm

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/havent-you-anything-ask-jeremy-10157256?69

This blaming the media.... It isn't working.... he's got to change his approach...

He may well have a point, but YOU have to create the agenda, YOU need to be the one creating the news for them to follow up on...

Instead he gets angry, looks small and petty to the electorate and people laugh at him....

Jesus Christ - listen to the LBC interview on that. He sounds half asleep, and like he can't be fucked.

Q "What have you learned from Copeland?"
A "Contact with Labour supporters is very important, and the more local the contact the better"

What the fuck is he going on about? So he's owning up to not even trying to appeal to the wider electorate, while also excusing himself in advance from the upcoming failures - suggesting the national Labour leadership have no responsibility in local elections.

Obviously his pernicious attitude to journalists is a disgrace, but it's nothing new and far from a one off. We've all seen him do it to Jon Snow before. Lashing out like a child. He is too individualistic and prideful to be a good leader

TepidT2O · « **Reply #5406 on:** April 4, 2017, 09:25:45 pm »

Antisemitism runs strong with JC fans..

Quote

Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party Forum moderator Ash Small, currently suspended by Labour for antisemitism shares "Jews control the BBC" article

TepidT2O · « **Reply #5407 on:** April 4, 2017, 09:30:32 pm »

Pretty good start to labour's local election campaign today wasn't it?

Alan_X · « **Reply #5408 on:** April 4, 2017, 09:32:12 pm »

Quote from: less grotesquely offensive? on April 4, 2017, 09:30:32 pm

Pretty good start to labour's local election campaign today wasn't it?

Was it another re-boot?

classycarra · « **Reply #5409 on:** April 4, 2017, 09:34:49 pm »

Quote from: less grotesquely offensive? on April 4, 2017, 09:30:32 pm

Pretty good start to labour's local election campaign today wasn't it?

Fucking hell, at the end of the LBC interview he berates the journalist for asking him a question (diddums), and then asks if he's still recording (before the guy has even stood up and got his recording device). He is incompetent beyond belief - genuinely I think it would require too much hard work for someone actively trying to be this bad.

TheShanklyGates · « **Reply #5410 on:** April 4, 2017, 10:04:05 pm »

Quote from: JohnnoWhite on April 4, 2017, 09:08:06 pm

Exactly what policies? What about a government committed to investing in the country's infra-structure? What about a government that would build houses for those who don't have one? What about taking back control of our transport systems? What about funding the NHS instead of handing out billions more in tax cuts for the tax dodgers? Don't our people give a flying fook about REAL social policies that would improve their living standards anymore?

None of those are concrete policy proposals, they're all just generic ideas. Honestly, everyone in this thread could probably all get behind of that but it is the job of the opposition to work out how best to realistically achieve them and then communicate that to the electorate. Labour at the moment are doing neither of those things.

Alan_X · « **Reply #5411 on:** April 4, 2017, 10:28:21 pm »

More bollocks from Corbyn in my Twitter feed.

"When the Government misleads on something as fundamental as life expectancy, you know things have gone too far."

And this was from his speech:

"How can you not be angry and demand major change when life expectancy in Britain for pensioners and those aged 45 is falling? We are a rich country, the sixth richest in the world. We are not at war, there is no epidemic sweeping our land.

So how on earth can life expectancy be falling?

The truth is that the Tories are running our country down.

Home ownership, opportunities for our children, wages and conditions at work, the NHS, care for our elderly, and now, life expectancy: they’re all going backwards, run down by a Conservative government that looks after those at the top and manages decline for the rest of us."

The comment is based on these figures released by the Institute and Faculty of Actuaries and the commentary states that:

The latest CMI Mortality Projections Model – ‘CMI_2016’ – was released on 28 March 2017 based on statistical analysis of England & Wales population data up to 31 December 2016. It's findings include:

Recent population data has highlighted that, since 2011, the rate at which mortality is improving has been slower than in previous years
However, mortality is expected to continue to improve and there is significant uncertainty as to whether this will be at a slower rate than experienced in the first decade of this century
Analysis of recent data suggests that mortality rates for members of defined benefit pension schemes improved at a faster rate than the general population.

https://www.actuaries.org.uk/news-and-insights/media-centre/media-releases-and-statements/cmi-mortality-projections-model-2016-launched

Corbyn and his team of fuckwits picked up on "...the rate at which mortality is improving has been slower than in previous years..." and interpreted it as saying that life expectancy is falling.

In fact life expectancy is still rising but the rate at which it is rising is slowing. "...However, mortality is expected to continue to improve..." is the next line.

It's basic statistics. I'm just so tired of this. Can we have a bit of basic competency? Did Corbyn mislead or just not understand? Either is unacceptable.

*edit. OK - I may have simplified a little myself. What the report says is that mortality rates continue to improve but at a slower rate. 'Life expectancy' is what insurers and others use to determine hpw long people might live at some future date.

So actuaries will have been calculating life expectancy (a forecast of how long people might live) on the fact that mortality has been improving at a given rate. If life expectancy still improves but at a lower rate then the forecast needs to be revised downwards to allow for it.

The bottom line still stands. We are still living longer.

TepidT2O · « **Reply #5412 on:** April 4, 2017, 10:40:43 pm »

Oh dear... that's dreadfully incompetent...

classycarra · « **Reply #5413 on:** April 4, 2017, 10:54:21 pm »

Quote from: Alan_X on April 4, 2017, 10:28:21 pm

More bollocks from Corbyn in my Twitter feed.

"When the Government misleads on something as fundamental as life expectancy, you know things have gone too far."

And this was from his speech:

"How can you not be angry and demand major change when life expectancy in Britain for pensioners and those aged 45 is falling? We are a rich country, the sixth richest in the world. We are not at war, there is no epidemic sweeping our land.

So how on earth can life expectancy be falling?

The truth is that the Tories are running our country down.

Home ownership, opportunities for our children, wages and conditions at work, the NHS, care for our elderly, and now, life expectancy: they’re all going backwards, run down by a Conservative government that looks after those at the top and manages decline for the rest of us."

The comment is based on these figures released by the Institute and Faculty of Actuaries and the commentary states that:

The latest CMI Mortality Projections Model – ‘CMI_2016’ – was released on 28 March 2017 based on statistical analysis of England & Wales population data up to 31 December 2016. It's findings include:

Recent population data has highlighted that, since 2011, the rate at which mortality is improving has been slower than in previous years
However, mortality is expected to continue to improve and there is significant uncertainty as to whether this will be at a slower rate than experienced in the first decade of this century
Analysis of recent data suggests that mortality rates for members of defined benefit pension schemes improved at a faster rate than the general population.

https://www.actuaries.org.uk/news-and-insights/media-centre/media-releases-and-statements/cmi-mortality-projections-model-2016-launched

Corbyn and his team of fuckwits picked up on "...the rate at which mortality is improving has been slower than in previous years..." and interpreted it as saying that life expectancy is falling.

In fact life expectancy is still rising but the rate at which it is rising is slowing. "...However, mortality is expected to continue to improve..." is the next line.

It's basic statistics. I'm just so tired of this. Can we have a bit of basic competency? Did Corbyn mislead or just not understand? Either is unacceptable.

*edit. OK - I may have simplified a little myself. What the report says is that mortality rates continue to improve but at a slower rate. 'Life expectancy' is what insurers and others use to determine hpw long people might live at some future date.

So actuaries will have been calculating life expectancy (a forecast of how long people might live) on the fact that mortality has been improving at a given rate. If life expectancy still improves but at a lower rate then the forecast needs to be revised downwards to allow for it.

The bottom line still stands. We are still living longer.

And for those not clicking the link, it's a very standard press release. It includes simplified interpretation of the results, a handy ready made quote, and contact details for their press office - in order to get in touch so they can help people accurately report what they've released.

To fuck that up today, when it was released six days ago, just illustrates that either they are incompetent at working at pace (six fucking days they had, and it was still wrong!), deliberately misinterpreting for effect/lying, or just not remotely arsed. Any of those three are awful

Depressing to think that they are taxpayer funded too, certainly not an example of value for money for the general public

Wabaloolah · « **Reply #5414 on:** April 4, 2017, 11:05:04 pm »

Quote from: TheShanklyGates on April 4, 2017, 06:57:09 pm

Dear oh dear oh dear.

He actually said something quite striking in the LBC interview as well further down the page. At about 1.30 in the video he says 'We are a campaigning party, we were founded to be a campaigning party for social justice in Britain'. Maybe I've misunderstood what he means (seems to happen a lot with almost everything he says) but it seems to me that he is more than happy for Labour to be stood on the sidelines shouting about how bad the Tories are than doing what the Labour party was actually founded to do which was to represent working people in Parliament.

but that's exactly what he thinks Labour should be. Believe me he wouldn't want to be in a position where he actually had to make a decision that could impact peoples lives!

Much better to sit on the sidelines and keep saying how bad the Tories yet offering no realistic costed alternatives aside from throwing magic money at a project

classycarra · « **Reply #5415 on:** April 4, 2017, 11:08:55 pm »

Quote from: shelts on April 4, 2017, 11:05:04 pm

but that's exactly what he thinks Labour should be. Believe me he wouldn't want to be in a position where he actually had to make a decision that could impact peoples lives!

Much better to sit on the sidelines and keep saying how bad the Tories yet offering no realistic costed alternatives aside from throwing magic money at a project

Depressing that a member of the (apparently) hostile media seems to both know and care more than Corbyn about the Party's constitution and it's existential focus on winning elections. [this is the LBC interview available on the Mirror article]

classycarra · « **Reply #5416 on:** April 4, 2017, 11:23:47 pm »

For fuck's sake...the prideful fuckwits have now published that embarrassing video of Corbyn looking like an angry idiot on their twitter, as if it's a good thing!

Never seen such misplaced vanity - total idiots, proud of having achieved absolutely fuck all in politics across their entire cumulative careers.

https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/849358445757292545

can't believe they've managed to surprise me with the depths they'll sink to tonight

TepidT2O · « **Reply #5417 on:** April 4, 2017, 11:28:26 pm »

Quote from: Classycara on April 4, 2017, 11:23:47 pm

For fuck's sake...the prideful fuckwits have now published that embarrassing video of Corbyn looking like an angry idiot on their twitter, as if it's a good thing!

Never seen such misplaced vanity - total idiots, proud of having achieved absolutely fuck all in politics across their entire cumulative careers.

https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/849358445757292545

can't believe they've managed to surprise me with the depths they'll sink to tonight

The trouble is, it plays well with some of his support.....

But is electoral kryptonite for everyone else....

Trada · « **Reply #5418 on:** April 4, 2017, 11:46:04 pm »

Well said Jeremy.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/40d9XKZ8sZA&feature=youtu.be" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/40d9XKZ8sZA&feature=youtu.be</a>

classycarra · « **Reply #5419 on:** April 4, 2017, 11:49:50 pm »

Quote from: Trada on April 4, 2017, 11:46:04 pm

Well said Jeremy.

What he said was stupid, and he delivered it in an angry and childish manner that made him look unprofessional. Safe to say I disagree with what he said and fundamentally disagree that it was 'well said'!

It just showed up that he doesn't have any reasonable arguments to make in his own favour. All he could do was list a couple of cronies, and as ever not mention anything policy-related.

He just wants/needs the media to do the Opposition's job for him - and then he can claim it in a false/misleading Government u-turn meme, spread through his supporter's echo chambers

killer-heels · « **Reply #5420 on:** April 4, 2017, 11:50:50 pm »

Angela Raynor has been on TV loads including QT, Daily and Sunday politics and Channel 4 and she comes across as genuine but not very polished. But regardless she has had plenty of outings.

classycarra · « **Reply #5421 on:** April 4, 2017, 11:53:09 pm »

Quote from: killer_heels on April 4, 2017, 11:50:50 pm

Angela Raynor has been on TV loads including QT, Daily and Sunday politics and Channel 4 and she comes across as genuine but not very polished. But regardless she has had plenty of outings.

In that whinge, Jeremy is complaining to ITV about coverage.

Just over a week ago (26th March) he was gloating about how frequently ITV cover him.

"I'll be on @pestononsunday in 10 minutes. I've been told I'm now their most frequent guest - the first to achieve four appearances"
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/845920955662843905

He just couldn't handle the question, so flipped his lid under a tiny amount of pressure. Trump-esque in his lies, his temper, his competence and his supporters rushing to excuse him

Alan_X · « **Reply #5422 on:** April 4, 2017, 11:54:33 pm »

Quote from: less grotesquely offensive? on April 4, 2017, 11:28:26 pm

The trouble is, it plays well with some of his support.....

But is electoral kryptonite for everyone else....

Quote from: Trada on April 4, 2017, 11:46:04 pm

Well said Jeremy.

Sangria · « **Reply #5423 on:** April 4, 2017, 11:55:18 pm »

Quote from: Classycara on April 4, 2017, 11:23:47 pm

For fuck's sake...the prideful fuckwits have now published that embarrassing video of Corbyn looking like an angry idiot on their twitter, as if it's a good thing!

Never seen such misplaced vanity - total idiots, proud of having achieved absolutely fuck all in politics across their entire cumulative careers.

https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/849358445757292545

can't believe they've managed to surprise me with the depths they'll sink to tonight

Quote from: less grotesquely offensive? on April 4, 2017, 11:28:26 pm

The trouble is, it plays well with some of his support.....

But is electoral kryptonite for everyone else....

Quote from: Trada on April 4, 2017, 11:46:04 pm

Well said Jeremy.

This is what the Labour party is. No point in imagining the members may differ from this. And because of the party's constitution, it will never change.

TheShanklyGates · « **Reply #5424 on:** April 5, 2017, 12:42:19 am »

Quote from: Trada on April 4, 2017, 11:46:04 pm

Well said Jeremy.

What would your reaction be if Trump behaved this way when a journalist asked him a question?

oldfordie · « **Reply #5425 on:** April 5, 2017, 12:56:23 am »

Quote from: Trada on April 4, 2017, 11:46:04 pm

Well said Jeremy.

"If your bothered to report" the question is why aren't you reporting what we have to say. the answer is you've lost all credibility. not many people really want to hear Labours opinion right now as it doesn't command much respect.

TepidT2O · « **Reply #5426 on:** April 5, 2017, 06:55:20 am »

Quote from: Trada on April 4, 2017, 11:46:04 pm

Well said Jeremy.

As I said... this will play well with Corbyn supporters.... he's not even wrong...

But this outburst is absolutely a vote loser....

Lush is the best medicine... · « **Reply #5427 on:** April 5, 2017, 07:05:37 am »

Quote from: oldfordie on April 5, 2017, 12:56:23 am

"If your bothered to report" the question is why aren't you reporting what we have to say. the answer is you've lost all credibility. not many people really want to hear Labours opinion right now as it doesn't command much respect.

not just that, but it's his job to push the message out there and even some of his biggest fans (like Owen Jones) admit his team are awful at doing that

JohnnoWhite · « **Reply #5428 on:** April 5, 2017, 08:08:43 am »

Quote from: Classycara on April 4, 2017, 09:10:25 pm

He asked you about Labour policy announcements, and that's your response? Lot's of hypothetical questions, none of which related to the question.

You seem ever determined to ignore the specific 10 point policy plan announced recently. I can't be arsed to go to the trouble of itemising what these points were. You live in the same world as I do and you have access to the same news. National policy directions and objectives are always declarations of directional intent rather than of detail.

Yet it's strange that whenever this hapless Tory mob make some further fuckwitted pronouncements - which never were in their manifesto of course and never accompanied by detailed costings - not a single critical comment on the lack of detail provided can be found.

Balanced and across the spectrum incisive comments from a number of contributors to this thread are rarer than hen's teeth. Constructive criticisms I can stomach but this thread has dissolved into a blind farcical lop-sided and a very singular witch-hunt - astonishingly, with ne'er a Tory witch in the crosshairs.

Trada · « **Reply #5429 on:** April 5, 2017, 08:27:49 am »

Also very Strange that they waited 11 months to sort out Ken and the NEC did it just before the local elections on the day Labour Labour launched their election campaign.

They are not even trying to hide it now the NEC did it at the time to cause most damage.

Like they wont let the local CLPs choose the candidates for those last By elections they shipped in outsiders and Blairites with past form of being idiots.

zero zero · « **Reply #5430 on:** April 5, 2017, 08:39:45 am »

Quote from: Classycara on April 4, 2017, 11:49:50 pm

It just showed up that he doesn't have any reasonable arguments to make in his own favour. All he could do was list a couple of cronies, and as ever not mention anything policy-related.

Exactly. Another amateur performance from Corbyn. If that's the point he wants to make his reply should be - What about <policy name> + <policy benefit>? That's how you get into the voter's consciousness, not by rattling off a couple of names and telling us how hard they're working. He's sitting there in an interview and we're left none-the-wiser as to what Labour actually stand for.

Besides, how badly briefed is he? It looks like it's come as a complete surprise that, when as leader his popularity is lower than any Labour leader before him, he's going to be asked why he's not stepping aside. He should have a response already prepared, eg. "I'm not a quitter". And move on and talk about the things he wants to talk about. Instead, we get Corbyn shifting the blame elsewhere (a key trait of his leadership) and he just ends up coming across as petulant.

zero zero · « **Reply #5431 on:** April 5, 2017, 08:41:03 am »

Quote from: Trada on April 5, 2017, 08:27:49 am

Also very Strange that they waited 11 months to sort out Ken and the NEC did it just before the local elections on the day Labour Labour launched their election campaign.

They are not even trying to hide it now the NEC did it at the time to cause most damage.

Like they wont let the local CLPs choose the candidates for those last By elections they shipped in outsiders and Blairites with past form of being idiots.

Its always somebody else's fault.

SP · « **Reply #5432 on:** April 5, 2017, 08:43:08 am »

Quote from: Trada on April 5, 2017, 08:27:49 am

Also very Strange that they waited 11 months to sort out Ken and the NEC did it just before the local elections on the day Labour Labour launched their election campaign.

They are not even trying to hide it now the NEC did it at the time to cause most damage.

Like they wont let the local CLPs choose the candidates for those last By elections they shipped in outsiders and Blairites with past form of being idiots.

It it had been earlier it would have impacted on the various By-elections. It is always a time for bad news. If you want to blame the NEC for the timing, no matter when it happened, it would impact something. I would suspect that given the heavyweight legal representation involved, there was time consuming and scrupulous care being taken to avoid making a hugely embarrassing horlicks of the case. The actual proceedings appear to have been handled as well as can be hoped for.

Livingstone was a passing story. The undecided voted will barely have noticed it. If the Labour campaign launch has failed to make an impact, I suspect it is a failing of the Labour media team rather than any nefarious plot. Opposition spokesmen, and especially the Leader, can get TV time if they play the game. When the Tories announce anything at all, the party should provide a talking head for an instant rebuttal. If they make people available to the media, they will be used. If they don't provide them in time, the SNP and the Lib Dems will.

Now, is the media office incompetent and fail to return calls quickly enough, or do they not trust some of the spokesmen to think on their feet and offer instant rebuttals? I suspect a bit of both. In some areas, the talent pool has run dry and the people filling posts are the only people willing. There are some spokesmen you just would not want to make the national news. But maybe I am overthinking it, they keep sending out Diane Abbot, so they are clearly not that picky.

SP · « **Reply #5433 on:** April 5, 2017, 08:57:13 am »

Quote from: JohnnoWhite on April 5, 2017, 08:08:43 am

Yet it's strange that whenever this hapless Tory mob make some further fuckwitted pronouncements - which never were in their manifesto of course and never accompanied by detailed costings - not a single critical comment on the lack of detail provided can be found.

It is a real issue. The way that it is supposed to work is that those are the points made by the Opposition. They do the tour of all the news studios and provide counterpoints and criticism of the measures, which gets shown along with the government announcement on every news bulletin. Something is broken in the Labour Party apparatus, and this is just not happening. There are stories about the glacial pace of the Labour media team responses.

Leaving aside all of the many other issues, the media strategy are killing any hope that a Corbyn Labour party has. The model of how to run an opposition has to be the Blair-Campbell axis. They had a rapid rebuttal team that provided virtually instant ripostes to everything the Tories said. Blair was everywhere on the media. Whenever the Tories did anything, he popped up, criticised it and offered an alternative. Every initiative the Tories took, became an opportunity for Blair to sell the party to the electorate. Campbell then built relationships with the media, as he was a reliable source of copy that allowed journalists to meet their deadlines. The current situation is dealing with the Labour media office is like pulling teeth, the media do it because they are obliged to, but it does not make their lives any easier.

And saying the Tories are bastards falls into the water is wet category. Shitty depressing measures are going to be implemented until Labour can beat the Tories. On here Labour are held to much higher standard than the Tories. Labour are the only viable solution to the Tories, and the rank incompetence undermining them is going to attract far more heat than the Tories announcing yet another heartless attack on the defenceless.

JohnnoWhite · « **Reply #5434 on:** April 5, 2017, 09:34:19 am »

Quote from: SP on April 5, 2017, 08:57:13 am

It is a real issue. The way that it is supposed to work is that those are the points made by the Opposition. They do the tour of all the news studios and provide counterpoints and criticism of the measures, which gets shown along with the government announcement on every news bulletin. Something is broken in the Labour Party apparatus, and this is just not happening. There are stories about the glacial pace of the Labour media team responses.

Leaving aside all of the many other issues, the media strategy are killing any hope that a Corbyn Labour party has. The model of how to run an opposition has to be the Blair-Campbell axis. They had a rapid rebuttal team that provided virtually instant ripostes to everything the Tories said. Blair was everywhere on the media. Whenever the Tories did anything, he popped up, criticised it and offered an alternative. Every initiative the Tories took, became an opportunity for Blair to sell the party to the electorate. Campbell then built relationships with the media, as he was a reliable source of copy that allowed journalists to meet their deadlines. The current situation is dealing with the Labour media office is like pulling teeth, the media do it because they are obliged to, but it does not make their lives any easier.

And saying the Tories are bastards falls into the water is wet category. Shitty depressing measures are going to be implemented until Labour can beat the Tories. On here Labour are held to much higher standard than the Tories. Labour are the only viable solution to the Tories, and the rank incompetence undermining them is going to attract far more heat than the Tories announcing yet another heartless attack on the defenceless.

Genuinely a fair and balanced analysis - thanks SP.
Just a point however, if the media work IS in fact being done and JC told the interviewer straight that work was being done but nothing was being reported, perhaps the media moguls HAVE indeed found a novel way to negate any message of impact getting through. They have simply closed their serried ranks and instructed that their journo front-men simply ignore and report anything that Labour say.

Alan_X · « **Reply #5435 on:** April 5, 2017, 09:57:45 am »

Can someone explain the point of the Saudi vote? The motion seems to have been drafted (by accident or design) to guarantee a split in the party for no obvious gain. Corbynites are all over Twitter talking about traitors and looking for lists to see which moderate Labour MPs to hate. Tom Watson is the new hate figure as expected. The Twitter narrative is that the government could have been defeated if they'd all voted, ignoring the general low turnout and the overall pointless posturing of the motion.

Surely the thing to do if you're trying to unify the party is come up with a draft that can be supported by all Labour MPs. Instead it seems to have been set up as a test of loyalty and to cast Tom Watson as a mini-Blair with blood on his hands (Evolve Politics has a photo of Watson paired with a photo of dead bodies on stretchers.

And if it was so vital to win the vote, why not impose a three-line whip? Or is that only done when Labour MPs are being asked to vote with the Tories rather than against them?

SP · « **Reply #5436 on:** April 5, 2017, 10:07:08 am »

Quote from: Alan_X on April 5, 2017, 09:57:45 am

Can someone explain the point of the Saudi vote? The motion seems to have been drafted (by accident or design) to guarantee a split in the party for no obvious gain. Corbynites are all over Twitter talking about traitors and looking for lists to see which moderate Labour MPs to hate. Tom Watson is the new hate figure as expected. The Twitter narrative is that the government could have been defeated if they'd all voted, ignoring the general low turnout and the overall pointless posturing of the motion.

Surely the thing to do if you're trying to unify the party is come up with a draft that can be supported by all Labour MPs. Instead it seems to have been set up as a test of loyalty and to cast Tom Watson as a mini-Blair with blood on his hands (Evolve Politics has a photo of Watson paired with a photo of dead bodies on stretchers.

And if it was so vital to win the vote, why not impose a three-line whip? Or is that only done when Labour MPs are being asked to vote with the Tories rather than against them?

Are you talking about the vote last October? Which I suppose is topical because May is in Saudi, or have I completely missed something.

Have the Canary report on that vote which misunderstands the arithmetic of a parliamentary majority.
http://www.thecanary.co/2016/10/27/100-labour-mps-just-scuppered-crucial-corbyn-led-vote-parliament-tweets/

JohnnoWhite · « **Reply #5437 on:** April 5, 2017, 10:25:08 am »

I agree entirely that it's absolutely pointless to graph out the % of parties backing the motion when the Tories have an overall majority of 14.

CornerFlag · « **Reply #5438 on:** April 5, 2017, 10:30:44 am »

Statement from Tom Watson on the Ken Livingstone decision.

SP · « **Reply #5439 on:** April 5, 2017, 10:43:05 am »

Ken Livingstone will continue to be a liability as long as he is allowed to remain a member. Suspension just prevaricates, and allows it all to reappear next year. They either needed to exonerate him or boot him. Take the hit now and move on. This solution aggrieves both his supporters and detractors and sets up the rematch to come next year. He is a media whore, and he is a simple conduit for a hatchet piece for whichever tabloid want to give Labour a kicking. He needs to be put out to pasture.