Topic: The Labour Party (*)

[Alan_X]

Still, Foot turned out ok in the end..... didn't he?

That really takes some doing. 41% net disapproval means that at best 29% have a favourable view: 70% - 29% = 41%. Allow for a few 'don't knows' and that drops further into the mid to low twenties.

[The Gulleysucker]

If things don't change, and quickly, it's looking more likely that a GE could possibly result in a wipeout of 1931 calamitous proportions.

There's some interesting parallels to today in there.

Perhaps it might be needed as it could be argued that it did eventually lead to an Atlee led Labour Party, though that would have to wait until '45 to get power.

[classycarra]

If things don't change, and quickly, it's looking more likely that a GE could possibly result in a wipeout of 1931 calamitous proportions.

There's some interesting parallels to today in there.

Perhaps it might be needed as it could be argued that it did eventually lead to an Atlee led Labour Party, though that would have to wait until '45 to get power.

So that means in 2041 "the fight starts here!"

[Libertine]

though that would have to wait until '45 to get power.

And the small matter of a catastrophic world war to catalyse the victory.

Though with May and Trump around....

[Alan_X]

If things don't change, and quickly, it's looking more likely that a GE could possibly result in a wipeout of 1931 calamitous proportions.

There's some interesting parallels to today in there.

Perhaps it might be needed as it could be argued that it did eventually lead to an Atlee led Labour Party, though that would have to wait until '45 to get power.

Half a million British fatalities, millions wounded and massive destruction of property had a major impact on British politics post-war.

[The Gulleysucker]

So that means in 2041 "the fight starts here!"

Relax, it's a long game....

In the meantime, on the primrose path to future success and Socialist Elysium, we can continuously seek purity by cleansing the party of those who might think differently from whatever it is the leadership think today, fight off coup's against the leadership - there's always plenty of them real or imagined and especially when the leadership is popular, and above all we can all make banners and protest as there's always lot's of people who are at their most comfortable when organising and doing that sort of thing.

[The Gulleysucker]

Half a million British fatalities, millions wounded and massive destruction of property had a major impact on British politics post-war.

Undoubtedly, but I always got the impression that if it hadn't have been for hostilities, the Labour Party had recovered enough from the '31 debacle to start to be able to offer a serious opposition and importantly with some cogent policies. Obviously these policies had much more of an impact when the suffering population considered the post war rebuilding of society in the '45 election.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Remember when New Labour - you know, the Blair government so despised by Momentum and their friends - reduced child poverty by over 900,000?

As opposed to our current lot fiddling whilst the Tories remove bereavement benefits and welfare support that will push a quarter of a million children into poverty? All without any fear of being held to account.

I'm sure i couldn't live with myself if I'd voted for Jeremy Corbyn.

[oldfordie]

Remember when New Labour - you know, the Blair government so despised by Momentum and their friends - reduced child poverty by over 900,000?

As opposed to our current lot fiddling whilst the Tories remove bereavement benefits and welfare support that will push a quarter of a million children into poverty? All without any fear of being held to account.

I'm sure i couldn't live with myself if I'd voted for Jeremy Corbyn.

Last year there were many saying whats the point of power without principles.
They got slaughtered for that so you dont hear it said now but ive no doubt many still believe it.
Nick Cohen summed it up well, these people hate the Torys but they dont fear them.
In other words, they would hate to see the Torys win the next GE but they dont fear the affects of their policys.

[Trada]

So Labour now are not a opposition even after making them do 30 u-turns lets got back to the brilliant opposition they were before Jeremy when they stood up for the poor and the disabled.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/TxX2v7ZQTS8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/TxX2v7ZQTS8</a>

[classycarra]

So Labour now are not a opposition even after making them do 30 u-turns lets got back to the brilliant opposition they were before Jeremy when they stood up for the poor and the disabled.

I'm sorry mate, but that is clearly and evidently inaccurate.

There may have been some u-turns, though I think the examples on that list of 30 on twitter are generous on numbers, but to suggest they were forced by Labour would be to deny reality

I hope you can appreciate the irony of falling back on that tired Harriet Harman excuse from Corbyn supporters - weeks after Corbyn whipped Labour MPs to support the Tories. Immeasurably worse than Harman.

To be frank, the poor and the disabled in this country are fucked right now - if the Tories want to, they have complete freedom to do as they please thanks to Corbyn and his incompetent cronies in the Shadow Cabinet

[filopastry]

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 43% (-2)
LAB: 25% (-1)
LDEM: 11% (+2)
UKIP: 11% (+1)
GRN: 4% (-)

(via ICM / 31 Mar - 02 Apr)

[TheShanklyGates]

Labour support at lowest since 2015 election, Guardian/ICM poll suggests

The latest Guardian/ICM polling figures are out, and Labour has hit a fresh low. At 25%, their support is lower than it has been at any time in the Guardian/ICM series since the 2015 election and joint equal to their lowest performance in these polls going back to 1983.

Here are the figures.

Conservatives: 43% (down 2 since Guardian/ICM two weeks ago)

Labour: 25% (down 1)

Ukip: 11% (up 1)

Lib Dems: 11% (up 2)

Greens: 4% (no change)

Conservative lead: 18 points (down 1)

ICM’s director Martin Boon says support for Labour has only fallen this low only twice since the firm started polling for the Guardian: in June and August 2009, when Gordon Brown was prime minister.

It is hard to find much consolation for Labour in these figures, but polls are only a guide to opinion, not a precise prediction of election outcomes, and one bonus for the party is that, in the local elections next month, it is extremely unlikely that the Conservatives will be 18 points ahead on the equivalent national vote. Yesterday it emerged that Colin Rawlings and Michael Thrasher, two academics who produce one equivalent national vote figure (John Curtice produces another, using a slightly different methodology), are predicting that the Tories will be on 31%, and Labour 29%. That is based on their analysis of voting in council byelections in the last three months.

So, if Rawlings and Thrasher are right, expect Labour figures to pop up on election night saying that, although the results are disappointing, they show Labour are much closer to the Tories than the headline polling figures, like ours, suggest.

(It won’t be an entirely convincing argument, because it involves a fallacious apples/oranges comparison - people don’t vote for a potential PM in local elections - but it won’t be entirely irrelevant either, and it may provide Labour with some comfort on the night.)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/apr/03/brexit-michael-howard-accused-of-absurd-jingoism-over-gibraltar-threat-politics-live?page=with:block-58e24deee4b01ea2330beca1#block-58e24deee4b01ea2330beca1

[Trada]

Labour came 5th in Frome in the last General Election. They have never been better than 3rd.  And never had more than a sixth of the vote.

Very optimistic.

I know thats what I'm talking about what is strange in Frome at the council election IFF won all 17 seats on the council elections with 70 to 80% of the votes in some of the seats.

IFF are anti-austerity, trying to get all employers to pay the real living wage in the town, pro-emigration for the town, pro Green energy and projects, saving public services, loads of projects to help the poor and disabled in the town, borrowing money to do projects because borrowing is cheap right now,  building cycling paths, anti-fracking, building social housing plus loads of other things all very Labour and Green policies. 

And the town has gone from strength to strength there are no empty shops in the town. Its just been voted best Town to live iin the South west and  house prices are going up by 14% the 3rd highest town in the UK.

But when it comes to the general election these same people who voted IFF in the council elections will vote Tory  in the general election the complete opposite.

I will vote IFF in the council elections and Labour in the general elections.

Places like Frome can easily be turned to Labour in the general election and thats where Momentum can help.

Not worry about the local election like the town council but just worry about the Somerton and Frome constituency Frome is one of the largest Towns in the constituency.

And more and more Towns are trying to follow Fromes lead and a new type of local politics called Flatpack democracy.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/w9Ietn1EH2w" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/w9Ietn1EH2w</a>


How Flatpack Democracy beat the old parties in the People’s Republic of Frome

On 7 May, a small Somerset town voted against traditional party politics and gave a coalition of independents control of all 17 seats on its council. As the crucible of ‘flatpack democracy’, Frome is leading a small-scale political revolution – and it’s one that is spreading

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/22/flatpack-democracy-peoples-republic-of-frome

[TepidT2O]

With respect to both parties, I'm not sure more than 2 or 3 people on here have any interest in the internal politics in Frome.

Perhaps a separate thread for this?

[Libertine]

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 43% (-2)
LAB: 25% (-1)
LDEM: 11% (+2)
UKIP: 11% (+1)
GRN: 4% (-)

(via ICM / 31 Mar - 02 Apr)

@gsoh31
#Labour declined 10 points from equivalent ICM poll in last Parl to the GE. Call it 7, given GE2015 poll error. Implies 18%! Gulp.

[TheShanklyGates]

@gsoh31
#Labour declined 10 points from equivalent ICM poll in last Parl to the GE. Call it 7, given GE2015 poll error. Implies 18%! Gulp.

It's all Tony Blair's fault.

[Trada]

With respect to both parties, I'm not sure more than 2 or 3 people on here have any interest in the internal politics in Frome.

Perhaps a separate thread for this?

Its not about the internal politics of Frome I'm trying to put across that people would be open to Jeremy's type of Labour party if they only knew what good his type of policies do.

I so temped to put a video up from about 7 years ago about Frome, we had shops closing all over the place all the public services closing down because of cuts.

Then suddenly IFF stood for election on a anti-austerity platform and within 4 years the town is totally different.

People are being brain washed that austerity needs to happen that's why New Labour jump on the back of that shit wagon.

Thats one of the reasons why I was so behind Jeremy for leader, Frome already had his type of policies before he became leader and I know they can work.

And no one will change my mind that the real cancer in the Labour party are the new Labour MPs back stabbing at every change.

And they do it more, the worse the news get for the Tories..... Oh Tory elections fraud next day Tom Watson comes out from under his stone to have a go at Momentum and tries to get bad news about Labour into the headlines, mission accomplished and now suddenly gone quiet about it again.

I can't believe I voted for him to be deputy leader he totally hoodwinked me.  I did ask him on Twitter if I could have my vote back, but I guess the answer was no because he then blocked me.

The sooner they are gone the better.





 

[Alan_X]

I read some of the stuff about Frome Dave, and it's hard to square with your view that IfF has some relationship to Corbyn's Labour and Momentum.

There's a lot to admire about 'flat-pack democracy' but it's about localism, inclusiveness and small 'p' politics. It would be really sad if it was infected and fucked up by Momentum.

[Wabaloolah]

It's all Tony Blair's fault.

Absolutely, nothing to do with Corbyn at all!

Tony Blair interview with Labour Progress Online group below

Tony Blair has warned the Government spends "zero" time worrying about the Labour Party as he blasted the current leadership for failing to provide a "competitive" opposition.

The former prime minister said Labour had failed in its "fundamental duty to the British people", as he hit out at the "ultra-left" takeover of the party.

In an interview with Labour MPs Ruth Smeeth and Wes Streeting for Progress magazine, Mr Blair also dubbed Brexit "the defining moment in British history" as he appealed for Labour to take a more modern approach.

He said: "We (have) failed in what is our fundamental duty to the British people, that is to be a competitive opposition.

"Just ask yourself one simple question. In the Prime Minister's office, in Tory high command, how much of their time do they spend worrying about the prospect of a Labour victory at the present time? I would guess zero."

Mr Blair added: "We've got to make them wake up every morning and fear us."

Mr Blair said a previous lurch to the left between 1979 and 1983 had "cratered the Labour party".

He added: "I don't want to depress you, but there is a big difference between the '80s and now.

"In the 1980s, the ultra-left never took control. They tried but they failed.

"The moment when Denis Healey beat Tony Benn was the moment when the Labour Party was saved."

The Labour leader between 1994 and 2007 warned the current party was putting its principles before power, arguing it had only won "when it has been at the cutting edge of modernity".

Turning to Brexit, Mr Blair said it was not the answer to the cultural and economic problems of globalisation, warning political parties could "end up in an intellectual and political cul-de-sac".

He added: "We have to say, the Government's got a mandate to negotiate Brexit, but we're going to hold them to account that it's not going to damage jobs, that it's not going to damage the economy."

Asked for his final word for those looking to keep Labour relevant, Mr Blair replied: "Urgency. Because politics moves faster today and Brexit ...it's the defining moment in British history."

Again, he is absolutely spot on

Edit to add link https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/03/tony-blair-lambasts-ultra-left-takeover-of-labour-party

[Zeb]

Had Healey brought to mind by a few things the past page or two. In particular what he said at the conference in 1979. Something along the lines of "Maybe next year, when we're not all agitated by the defeat, we can come back and try to figure out a way to win votes lost not to the Communists but to the Tories and the Liberals".

[Wabaloolah]

Had Healey brought to mind by a few things the past page or two. In particular what he said at the conference in 1979. Something along the lines of "Maybe next year, when we're not all agitated by the defeat, we can come back and try to figure out a way to win votes lost not to the Communists but to the Tories and the Liberals".

Exactly yet the current Labour leadership think they can win elections by not convincing people who voted Tory and LD at the last election to back Labour next time, despite all evidence pointing to the fact that to win elections that is exactly the type of voter you need to attract.  It took Labour another 18 years to convince enough of them.  I fear it will be as long if not longer this time

[JohnnoWhite]

Exactly in what way do Labour do that Shelts? If it's not by annunciating clear alternative policies to this savage Tory mob, then when will the people realise that the Tories are crippling our people?
Just take a hard long look at the shabby ravaged state of our society and then decide that there has to be a better and far less bitter way to go.

[filopastry]

Exactly in what way do Labour do that Shelts? If it's not by annunciating clear alternative policies to this savage Tory mob, then when will the people realise that the Tories are crippling our people?
Just take a hard long look at the shabby ravaged state of our society and then decide that there has to be a better and far less bitter way to go.

I fully agree there has to be a better and far less bitter way to go.

I don't agree that Labour has announced many clear alternative policies to offer though.

There has been lots of nice talk about extremely ambitious objectives but little talk of detailed policy to achieve them and to finance those policies.

[Wabaloolah]

Exactly in what way do Labour do that Shelts? If it's not by annunciating clear alternative policies to this savage Tory mob, then when will the people realise that the Tories are crippling our people?
Just take a hard long look at the shabby ravaged state of our society and then decide that there has to be a better and far less bitter way to go.

Exactly what policies have been announced? 

It matters not anyway as the country will not vote for Corbyn. I think that much is proven since his election.  At an all time low in the polls, double digits behind a government with problems of its own at a point in the parliament when the opposition should be double digits ahead. 

Labour are at least twenty points below where they should be at this stage in the parliamentary cycle.  Even Miliband was in front at this stage.  Worryingly, the polls always overstate Labour's performance so the real position is probably a lot worse than it actually is

You tell me how exactly Corbyn is going to convince the country to vote for him because he is failing to convince even a lifelong supporter and member like myself?

[Sangria]

I fully agree there has to be a better and far less bitter way to go.

I don't agree that Labour has announced many clear alternative policies to offer though.

There has been lots of nice talk about extremely ambitious objectives but little talk of detailed policy to achieve them and to finance those policies.

One way to start might be to have a genuinely competent team who are competent at convincing the electorate that they are competent. The current Labour membership, who, let's not forget, are the relevant decisionmakers for the very first step towards this, have pinned their hopes on anything but this, believing competence to be a mark of Tony Blair. And thus there is no first step.

Still, at least people have the chance to vote for blue or red when they want to vote for a Europhobic party. For too long they've been confined to UKIP. Now both the Tories and Labour are competing for their attention. Fuck Blair for denying the will of the people. Corbyn is now properly representing the Europe-hating British people.

[TepidT2O]

Relationship between net leadership satisfaction and election results...


A very close correlation you will note!  Currently Corbyn is on -29%. ...

Sadly the graph doesn't quite go that low...

[TheShanklyGates]

http://www.newstatesman.com/labour-bus-jeremy-corbyn-memes

The sheer incompetence is something else.

If you want to bypass mainstream media and reach people on the Internet instead, then fine. But if you’re going to make social media the central plank of your communications strategy then for God’s sake at least try to be good at it. Find people who can write decent copy. Invest in some better clip-art, or go take a photo of an actual bus to use.  Hire somebody who knows how to use Twitter properly.  It won’t fix everything, but it would at least be a start.

Seems so simple yet it somehow seems to be beyond the current Labour leadership.

[TepidT2O]

http://www.newstatesman.com/labour-bus-jeremy-corbyn-memes

The sheer incompetence is something else.

Seems so simple yet it somehow seems to be beyond the current Labour leadership.

This is party political incompetence, the social media team at labour is dreadful...

[zero zero]

The sheer incompetence is something else.

Seems so simple yet it somehow seems to be beyond the current Labour leadership.

Amazing. Every single design choice is wrong. As for the copy; twelve words max for a poster. Seven or under of you have any skill.



This one is pure Jeremy. "I have a simple message..." Just get on with it!

[TepidT2O]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/havent-you-anything-ask-jeremy-10157256?69

This blaming the media.... It isn't working.... he's got to change his approach...

He may well have a point, but YOU have to create the agenda, YOU need to be the one creating the news for them to follow up on...

Instead he gets angry, looks small and petty to the electorate and people laugh at him....

[TheShanklyGates]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/havent-you-anything-ask-jeremy-10157256?69

This blaming the media.... It isn't working.... he's got to change his approach...

He may well have a point, but YOU have to create the agenda, YOU need to be the one creating the news for them to follow up on...

Instead he gets angry, looks small and petty to the electorate and people laugh at him....

Dear oh dear oh dear.

He actually said something quite striking in the LBC interview as well further down the page. At about 1.30 in the video he says 'We are a campaigning party, we were founded to be a campaigning party for social justice in Britain'. Maybe I've misunderstood what he means (seems to happen a lot with almost everything he says) but it seems to me  that he is more than happy for Labour to be stood on the sidelines shouting about how bad the Tories are than doing what the Labour party was actually founded to do which was to represent working people in Parliament.

[Alan_X]

I am just sitting here staring at the screen. What the actual fuck is that? There are hundreds of better clip-art buses on on the internet. God forbid they paid someone to draw that.

[Alan_X]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/havent-you-anything-ask-jeremy-10157256?69

This blaming the media.... It isn't working.... he's got to change his approach...

He may well have a point, but YOU have to create the agenda, YOU need to be the one creating the news for them to follow up on...

Instead he gets angry, looks small and petty to the electorate and people laugh at him....

That's who he is. He has a long history of snapping when asked difficult questions.



You're on the public stage Jeremy, do some of that politics stuff.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

I am just sitting here staring at the screen. What the actual fuck is that? There are hundreds of better clip-art buses on on the internet. God forbid they paid someone to draw that.

is it meant to be a phone as well as a bus to highlight the wifi element?

[Alan_X]

is it meant to be a phone as well as a bus to highlight the wifi element?

I thought it was an old Mac Classic at first

[Lush is the best medicine...]

I thought it was an old Mac Classic at first

Do hipsters carry them around on trains?

[zero zero]

I am just sitting here staring at the screen. What the actual fuck is that? There are hundreds of better clip-art buses on on the internet. God forbid they paid someone to draw that.

Doesn't exactly say "modern", does it?

is it meant to be a phone as well as a bus to highlight the wifi element?

Then they should have just used the universal symbol for wi-fi for the radiator grill. This stuff is not hard.



Instead, they try to communicate low emissions (behind the curve already) AND wi-fi AND something about ticketing that's not clear and end up communication nothing. Amateurs.

[TepidT2O]

Livingstone suspended for a year for his awful comments ...

And then says this...

Ken Livingstone: "I apologise for the offence caused by those Labour MPs who lied and said I said Hitler was a Zionist."

He literally couldn't give a fuck

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Its fucking incredible how bad they are.

Tanking in the polls, embarrassed on their favoured platform of social sodding media, ineffectual in the House.

So disappointing.