Author Topic: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..  (Read 150212 times)

Online oldfordie

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4800 on: May 20, 2017, 12:50:07 PM »
Just been reading some interesting parallels between the Referendum/current General Election and the situation in 1933 in Germany. In the March 1933 election, the Nazis and their right-wing allies (DNVP) polled 51.9%. In order to achieve total power, Hitler launched a referendum for an Enabling Act, under which he could rule without parliamentary interference, for which he needed a super-majority of 66%. The Centre Party agonised about this issue, but concluded that they had to support the measure in order to avoid going against the "will of the people" (as expressed in the "national mandate" of 51.9%) and being branded as "traitors". They thus voted for the Enabling Act and Hitler got his majority. We know what happened then.

Now remind me why Theresa May is holding this election, why she's presented herself in the campaign almost as a presidential candidate (vote for me, my party). All those Labour, Lib Dem and other voters who are now saying they'll vote for May, as we need a "strong and stable" leader in the Brexit negotiations are set to provide her with the massive majority she needs in order to ... what? Well, we're about to find out.
There are similarities between the 30s, sadly the majority of people never understood what was happening till it was too late, similar situation today.
She's calling the election for a few reasons, all win win for the Torys. number 1 reason, she knows she will win far more seats, the fallout from Brexit will force even more cuts, she will never admit Brexit is tanking the economy, she wont even admit the drop in the pound is down to Brexit so the idiots will believe her excuses.
There may well be a few Tory rebels when new controversial reforms are passed in yrs to come. a large majority will take away the threat of rebellion.
Question is, will the new controversial reforms be down to Tory ideology or necessity due to the Brexit fall out. if Brexit ruins the economy then it will be down to necessity so all the Tory and Brexiters voters might as well cheer all these cuts rather than protest them as they played a part in bringing them about.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 12:52:55 PM by oldfordie »
"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've have been fooled" Mark Twain on Brexit.

Offline G1 Jockey 4(betfair)

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4801 on: May 20, 2017, 01:03:37 PM »
Are you saying loosing the city might not be a bad thing, it will force us to concentrate on creating proper jobs.?
We are in massive debt, this government is now chopping everything in the hope of making ends meet. the city brought in over 11% of our tax revenue last year. what will the government do when they have far less money coming in.
Anything that reduces jobs and revenue is bad news.


there is a problem with that theory imo.
To create other jobs off the back of losing the city we would need to attract foreign brains....we cant rely on trying to compete with china india and other nations who can manufacture for cheaper.
the only way is to invent...be a market leader.....or be competetive price wise.

we are lucky to be the centre of europe atm on finances.
it helps balance of trade.
it helps keep debt to gdp below the 100% mark.....this is the major thing.

take it away and dont do the above we will be in deep shit.

who is gonna bail us out?

Is it gonna be the eu?..woudl be ironic.
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Online oldfordie

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4802 on: May 20, 2017, 01:37:33 PM »
there is a problem with that theory imo.
To create other jobs off the back of losing the city we would need to attract foreign brains....we cant rely on trying to compete with china india and other nations who can manufacture for cheaper.
the only way is to invent...be a market leader.....or be competetive price wise.

we are lucky to be the centre of europe atm on finances.
it helps balance of trade.
it helps keep debt to gdp below the 100% mark.....this is the major thing.

take it away and dont do the above we will be in deep shit.

who is gonna bail us out?

Is it gonna be the eu?..woudl be ironic.
Yeah,it goes back to the Thatcher days, people have long standing opinions and theyve never reconsidered those opinions now realty is facing us and other far more important considerations have to be taken into account.
Thatcher did a lot of harm but allowing the city to go wont give us an incentive to create more jobs.
As you say jobs will only be created when we can trade competitive and that works both ways, importing and exporting.
The big problem we face is the city is going as we speak, the foreign deals are all pie in the sky right now, a long way off in the future. many of those big trade deals wont be signed till we have a deal with the EU. we may well drop out the EU but carry on negotiations for many years to come. I dont think anyone knows how this will play out but if people think we will leave in 2 yrs and then start signing  big deals straight away then I think there wrong.
"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've have been fooled" Mark Twain on Brexit.

Offline Banquo's Ghost

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4803 on: May 21, 2017, 01:18:38 PM »
This is a very good article on the looming food crisis triggered by Brexit and the government stance on immigration. (My emphasis).

Quote
While Ian Wright is good at the diplomatic phrase, others feel less constrained. In the months running up to the Brexit referendum, Tim Lang, professor of food policy at London’s City University, co-authored a briefing paper on Britain’s dependency on EU member states for its food. It dealt in detail with seasonal labour from the EU. He can be forgiven for wondering why he bothered. “The civil service is dispirited and uncertain of what they’re doing because they haven’t been given any signals,” Lang says now. “There’s not a bleep about food policy coming from ministers. There has been a stunning silence from Andrea Leadsom, the Defra minister, on this matter of national importance. Basically, if on March 31, 2019, migrant labour is not sorted the food system is fucked.” And then he says, “I hope those who voted Brexit and who still want to eat British are prepared to go to Lincolnshire in winter to pick vegetables.” Or as Wright puts it, “Food is at the heart of national security. If you can’t feed a country you haven’t got a country.”

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/21/brexit-coming-food-crisis-seasonal-migrant-labour-eu

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4804 on: May 21, 2017, 03:01:34 PM »
Brexit negotiations set to start on 19 June

The EU’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, has pencilled in 19 June for the first formal day of talks with Britain about its withdrawal from the European Union, in what are being billed as the most important negotiations in the country’s history.

That highly symbolic morning, Barnier will face whoever is the British Brexit secretary after the election for the first day of an arduous 15 months of negotiations to hammer out the terms of the UK’s exit.

It is understood that the European commission’s Brexit taskforce, led by Barnier, shared the proposed date with key figures in Brussels last week.

EU officials are yet to discuss any logistics with the UK, however, due to an ongoing row with Theresa May’s government over its blocking of a mid-term review of the union’s budget.

Brussels cancelled plans for behind-the-scenes “pre-talk talks” to discuss how the negotiations could be handled in anger last month when Britain vetoed the shuffling of the EU budget to priority areas, such as the migration crisis.

The British government claimed pre-election purdah rules blocked any key decisions being made before the general election on 8 June, enraging the commission, whose plans are now stalled.

The lack of contact between the two negotiating teams is the reason Brussels intends to ringfence an additional week after the election result for further informal preparations before the negotiations start in earnest.

The first meeting between Barnier and the Brexit secretary is likely to be held in the recently-opened Europa building, a £283m transparent structure housing a large glass egg where key EU meeting rooms are accommodated. Its unworldly appearance has led to the building being nicknamed the Space Egg.

The EU wants negotiations to be divided into four-week cycles, each focused on a key issue. Week one would involve political preparation, followed by a week where documents would be disclosed by both sides.

The third week would see Barnier and the Brexit secretary sitting down to talk, mainly in Brussels but also, potentially, in London. In the final week, Barnier would report on the results of the negotiations to the 27 member states and the European parliament.

The EU’s negotiator wants to reach agreement on citizens’ rights, the UK’s divorce bill and on the border of Ireland in a first phase of talks he hopes will be concluded by the end of 2017.

The European council, whose members comprise the 27 EU states, will decide by consensus on whether sufficient progress has been made for talks to progress, according to the commission’s negotiating directives, to be signed off by EU ministers next Monday.

If it is deemed appropriate by the EU 27 leaders, Barnier will spend from December 2017 to the spring of 2018 negotiating the scope of a future trade deal with the UK. He will also discuss the transitional arrangements necessary for the period between the UK leaving the single market and the customs union in March 2019, and any EU-UK trade deal being finalised and ratified some years ahead.

Barnier’s timetable allows for the approval of a withdrawal deal, including transitional arrangements, by EU institutions and member states.

Only two years of withdrawal negotiations are allowed under article 50 of the Lisbon treaty. May notified the European council of the UK’s decision to leave the EU on 29 March this year, nine months after last June’s referendum.

However, the commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, fears Barnier’s timetable will be derailed. David Davis, the current Brexit secretary, has already warned that the EU’s stubborn refusal to talk about a trade deal at the same time as the divorce terms, including the estimated €100bn divorce bill, “will be the row of the summer”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/19/brexit-uk-eu-talks-start-19-june

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4805 on: May 21, 2017, 07:01:08 PM »
Enjoy the Championship, leavers.....


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Online PaulF

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4806 on: May 23, 2017, 10:42:16 PM »
Fucking hell they are even 6th on that table


--edit-- dont bother with the facepalms.....
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

Offline BobOnATank

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4807 on: May 26, 2017, 01:41:27 AM »
Enjoy the Championship, leavers.....



Although Liverpool failed compared to the London clubs........ Makes you think...

Offline BobOnATank

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4808 on: May 26, 2017, 01:47:24 AM »
A bit too much on the consipacy side of things but the off-shoring of work and illegality by UKIP is unsurprising.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy


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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4809 on: May 26, 2017, 08:57:17 AM »
A similar conspiracy suggests the big money people bet heavily on Scottish independence and then tried with Brexit. Doubtless they would have employed firms like those in Bobonatank s article. Maybe the Scottish referendum was a dry run.
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

Offline Dr. Beaker

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4810 on: May 27, 2017, 04:32:16 PM »
After May's performances lately, by the time Merkel finishes with her at the Brexit negotiations, the mantra will be, 'Strong and absorbent'.
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect.

Offline The Gulleysucker

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4811 on: May 27, 2017, 04:41:37 PM »
After May's performances lately, by the time Merkel finishes with her at the Brexit negotiations, the mantra will be, 'Strong and absorbent'.

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Offline Dr. Beaker

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Re: Brexit - What would those in power get out of it? The Fallout Thread..
« Reply #4812 on: May 27, 2017, 05:09:37 PM »
...and with a two way dry weave top sheet with wings...
Trust you to lower the tone.
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect.

Online Libertine

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This is what the Home secretary just called "good news".
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And it comes to something when the person speaking most sense on this is George Osbourne.....


He also defended an Evening Standard headline denouncing Mrs May's pledge to get annual net migration below 100,000 as "politically rash and economically illiterate".

"The Evening Standard is saying `You have got a promise to reduce immigration so tell us how you are going to do it.

"Which section of industry is not going to have the labour it currently needs? Which families are not going to be able to be reunited with members of their families abroad? Which universities are not going to have overseas students?

"If the Conservative government can answer those questions, all well and good. If they can't, the Evening Standard is going to go on asking the question."

Mr Osborne, who has stood down as a Conservative MP after being sacked as a chancellor by Mrs May last July, denied he was exacting his revenge on the prime minister. But he said the paper would not pull its punches.

"What the paper is doing is standing up for a set of values that the paper has long espoused and by a happy coincidence are also the values I applied as chancellor."

He said Mrs May had taken the party in a sharply different direction since taking over from Mr Cameron, who resigned after losing the EU referendum last year.

"Both Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn are offering, in very different ways, a retreat from international liberalism and globalisation.

"That is quite a development in British politics, and I think there are quite a lot of people who are uncertain whether that is the right development and I want to make sure that the Evening Standard is asking on their behalf questions about that."

Mr Osborne told presenter Nick Robinson he was not missing front line politics.

"I'm really enjoying covering the campaign as an editor. It's a very different perspective and it's good fun."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40071822
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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And it comes to something when the person speaking most sense on this is George Osbourne.....

Isn't it just.

Offline west_london_red

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I don't remember him having a problem or speaking up against limiting immigration when he was chancellor.

Offline Red-Soldier

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I don't remember him having a problem or speaking up against limiting immigration when he was chancellor.

Of course he didn't, he's just sticking the knife into May.

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Offline killer_heels

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I don't remember him having a problem or speaking up against limiting immigration when he was chancellor.

They sidelined May when it came to immigration. It was Cameron, Osbourne and the cabinets opinion that they needed immigration to grow the economy so they put the emphasis on that rather than immigration.

Offline west_london_red

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They sidelined May when it came to immigration. It was Cameron, Osbourne and the cabinets opinion that they needed immigration to grow the economy so they put the emphasis on that rather than immigration.

if they weren't putting the emphasis on immigration why have a target in your manifesto to reducing it to less then 100k, not once but twice while Osborne was chancellor?

I'd say that's putting some emphasis on it.

Offline killer_heels

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if they weren't putting the emphasis on immigration why have a target in your manifesto to reducing it to less then 100k, not once but twice while Osborne was chancellor?

I'd say that's putting some emphasis on it.

Its widely known that it was a crazy policy that was haphazardly put together. The second time round it was through wanting a majority and getting rid of the coalition.

Cameron's mob were massively cosy with big business and the needs of them trumped immigration.

I hate them more than anyone and I find it strange how now people think they were not that bad because they were liberal, as if as long as you are liberal then its ok. But they were definitely pro immigration.