Topic: The Labour Party (*)

[TepidT2O]

Lucky Spitting Image isn't on anymore.

If ever a program was ripe for a return its this and it’s now.

The utter showers of shit leading the major parties are ripe for a humbling.

[J_Kopite]

Even 2DTV back would be boss

[Zeb]

The fucking state of that  bellend. He's a terrible liar, and thinks the end justifies the means for more or less anything. I wouldn't trust anything he said, even if it was an academic piece of literature on his specialist subject (music). He doesn't appear to have any filter either, just look at his public cheerleading of Corbyn but his private misgivings that he's actually useless.

His midlife crisis has nicely coincided with the rise of the regressive left in Labour, hopefully it'll be remembered when the current farce is over and he won't get the same gigs from the BBC that require a bit more intellectual honesty and balance than he's capable. This tool belongs at some scummy hyper-capitalist clickbait site, entirely lacking in any credibility, like the Canary

He's an odd un for sure. It's the instant desire to lash out and demonise anything which introduces an element of reality into a policy debate that really bothers me. That blog from Shelter gives three things which Labour could easily be all over. Social housing is already there to some unspecified degree, but Shelter are right that it's bloody odd that Corbyn cares so much for the poor and wants to end austerity yet would still maintain the freeze (and restrictions) on things like LHA when it's an obvious way to ease some of the current problems while waiting for more housing stock to be built. Of course, it'll all spin on a dime if Jeremy changes his mind but saw the same thing with those who tried to help with drawing up sane economic policies where they end up deciding the circus isn't worth the price of admission.

[TepidT2O]

What antisemitism problem?

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Shelter (Shelter ffs) having to explain to Corbynistas like Paul Mason that Shelter are not secretly Tories, but that controlling rents does require doing it in a specific way if it's not going to have major negative consequences.

http://blog.shelter.org.uk/2017/09/old-fashioned-rent-control-what-is-it-good-for/

Mason ranting on Twitter about neoliberal charities not doing good old fashioned 'make shit up as you go along' research like he does.

This should be such a simple and popular policy to present. It really should. It was in 2015. It was in the election just gone. It doesn't need going to war with people who collate and stay in touch with the best academic research on the subject of housing and issues which stem from it.

would also argue one of the big downsides of a council setting the rent on a sqft basis is that not all areas are the same, when it comes to things like property development they usually need a certain % of the houses/flats sold before they start building and a huge number of those are people who want to buy a flat as an investment (ie landlords) as well as more serial landlords and as a result there won’t be as many properties built for people to live in as the people who used to invest in those developments which helps them get built will invest elsewhere and there is less housing to go around.

And as well if a glut of housing comes onto the market you’ll have a lot of people who are current owners who need to move up in size who will suddenly be in negative equity which will make their lives very difficult e.g. a couple who bought a one bed flat three years ago are expecting and need to sell up to buy a house suddenly find they’re in negative equity and can’t buy/have to overstretch, which again can also increase homelessness/reduce living standards

[Yorkykopite]

What antisemitism problem?

Ignorant bastards can't even spell siege. Fucking Nazis.

[Zeb]

would also argue one of the big downsides of a council setting the rent on a sqft basis is that not all areas are the same, when it comes to things like property development they usually need a certain % of the houses/flats sold before they start building and a huge number of those are people who want to buy a flat as an investment (ie landlords) as well as more serial landlords and as a result there won’t be as many properties built for people to live in as the people who used to invest in those developments which helps them get built will invest elsewhere and there is less housing to go around.

And as well if a glut of housing comes onto the market you’ll have a lot of people who are current owners who need to move up in size who will suddenly be in negative equity which will make their lives very difficult e.g. a couple who bought a one bed flat three years ago are expecting and need to sell up to buy a house suddenly find they’re in negative equity and can’t buy/have to overstretch, which again can also increase homelessness/reduce living standards

One of the things which I thought was really generous from Shelter was the idea that, ok, Corbyn has got room here to think big and to dream. So where's that showing up in housing policy? With changing rules on house building, and especially *what* is built, that could be a huge thing which has big benefits. Pull in the blue-sky holistic thinking around housing that someone like Marmot has recommended. Look beyond 'must build social housing' and 'must control rent' to 'how do we allow communities to develop in a way which is sustainable, equitable, and meets a whole range of needs across society which are typically ignored by the profit motive alone'. I've only read some of the relevant research and summaries and it's still quickly apparent it's a complex problem which won't be solved by demanding local rates be set for the private sector. One of the key points Shelter raises is that if you force private landlords to divest then you're still not providing housing for people without a whole host of additional things to support people into affording the house in the first place. And, let's be blunt, if Labour crash the housing market (rather than slowly deflating it as best as possible) then the chances of them getting a majority in the following election are approximate to zero.

[So… Howard Philips]

What antisemitism problem?

When I first saw that I wondered what the problem was. Then re read it and saw the "final sloution". What a bunch of snidey smart arses.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

One of the key points Shelter raises is that if you force private landlords to divest then you're still not providing housing for people without a whole host of additional things to support people into affording the house in the first place. And, let's be blunt, if Labour crash the housing market (rather than slowly deflating it as best as possible) then the chances of them getting a majority in the following election are approximate to zero.

and as well if landlords are effectively forced to divest how do you stop property speculators snapping the stock up in the hope of some corporate development, which would be even worse for homelessness?

regarding labour crashing the housing market, that mcdonnell thinks a run on the pound is worth preparing for tells me everything to be honest, and their housing policy, like most of their policies sound nice but when it comes to the details/how to pay for it they’re lacking, which shouldn’t be a massive shock with the lack of experience/competence in the shadow cabinet

[Alan_X]

When I first saw that I wondered what the problem was. Then re read it and saw the "final sloution". What a bunch of snidey smart arses.

I trust Owen Jones will be calling for the heads of those responsible and for a boycott of LFPME.

Manchester Bombing: Katie Hopkins Twitter Row Sees Owen Jones Call For LBC Boycott
Over a phrase used by the Nazis in reference to genocide.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/manchester-bombing-katie-hopkins-reported-to-police-for-calling-for-final-solution-following-attack_uk_5923ffaee4b094cdba573404

[Yorkykopite]

I trust Owen Jones will be calling for the heads of those responsible and for a boycott of LFPME.

Manchester Bombing: Katie Hopkins Twitter Row Sees Owen Jones Call For LBC Boycott
Over a phrase used by the Nazis in reference to genocide.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/manchester-bombing-katie-hopkins-reported-to-police-for-calling-for-final-solution-following-attack_uk_5923ffaee4b094cdba573404

In a way the Labour Palestine tweet is very honest, if a little oblique. It also shows how easy it is to be both anti-Zionist andanti-Semitic. They see the Two-State solution (which is still Labour Party policy) as a temporary state of affairs that will end the occupation of the West Bank. But the step beyond that, which they favour, is the Final Solution. This phrase is obviously meant to deeply hurt Jews, but it also makes clear that they view the physical elimination of the Jewish population of the Middle East with total equanimity. That is honest. Basically they would like to compete the job started by Hitler.

[TepidT2O]

In a way the Labour Palestine tweet is very honest, if a little oblique. It also shows how easy it is to be both anti-Zionist andanti-Semitic. They see the Two-State solution (which is still Labour Party policy) as a temporary state of affairs that will end the occupation of the West Bank. But the step beyond that, which they favour, is the Final Solution. This phrase is obviously meant to deeply hurt Jews, but it also makes clear that they view the physical elimination of the Jewish population of the Middle East with total equanimity. That is honest. Basically they would like to compete the job started by Hitler.

I don’t understand the antizionist thing either....

There are Christian states, Islaic states, why not a Jewish state?  Seems odd to me, it would never be said about other faiths...

[Mutton Geoff]

I side with Shakespeare on wit

Givin his portrayal of Shylock you may need to consider this.

[classycarra]

Givin his portrayal of Shylock you may need to consider this.

Oh dear Geoff. You're making light of anti-semitism, being flippant on a page where Labour affiliates are referring to a "final solution". Pretty shameless of you. I prefer when you're on your high horse rather than going low

[Mutton Geoff]

Oh dear Geoff. You're making light of anti-semitism, being flippant on a page where Labour affiliates are referring to a "final solution". Pretty shameless of you. I prefer when you're on your high horse rather than going low

Actually i am not,  but the partial posts of the likes of Yorkie that seems to miss that there are two sides to the palestianian problem is what i am talking about, the israel government appear to think that they can act as they please turning off utilities at will occupying land that doesnt belong to them in the knowledge that people will use history to give them a free pass on this, however i do not agree with this, what they are doing now is wrong if any other country acted as they do the UN would condemn them on humatarian reasons alone.

Does that make me a anti semitist i think not but you might need to lable it as you see fit.

Using history to attack someone whose father never got over liberating a camp and later committed suicide shows how little you know about me from your bloody ivory tower, realise there is a distinction between the horrible history of the Jewish people which i have always protested about,  and the way Israel acts right now might be a start for you but i wont hold my breath !

[classycarra]

Actually i am not,  but the partial posts of the likes of Yorkie that seems to miss that there are two sides to the palestianian problem is what i am talking about, the israel government appear to think that they can act as they please turning off utilities at will occupying land that doesnt belong to them in the knowledge that people will use history to give them a free pass on this, however i do not agree with this, what they are doing now is wrong if any other country acted as they do the UN would condemn them on humatarian reasons alone.

Does that make me a anti semitist i think not but you might need to lable it as you see fit.

Your one liner implied that, like Len Ken and Ken, you don't really think anti-semitism is a problem in the Labour party, and is merely being manipulated by opposition to criticise the leadership. It could lead people to think you don't take it seriously, or you aren't concerned with it. That it could even be worthy of a bit of a laugh. You picked a really fucking weird time to do it.

I very clearly never labelled you that, but yeah, I did say what I saw fit.

Using history to attack someone whose father never got over liberating a camp and later committed suicide shows how little you know about me from your bloody ivory tower, realise there is a distinction between the horrible history of the Jewish people which i have always protested about,  and the way Israel acts right now might be a start for you but i wont hold my breath !

I mean, I didn't do any of that. Didn't use history. Didn't attack you. Didn't mention anything about how the state of Israel acts, as Israel is clear not the subject of either of our posts.

Clearly didn't know that about your father. I'm very sorry to hear that Geoff.

[Mutton Geoff]

Your one liner implied that, like Len Ken and Ken, you don't really think anti-semitism is a problem in the Labour party, and is merely being manipulated by opposition to criticise the leadership. It could lead people to think you don't take it seriously, or you aren't concerned with it. That it could even be worthy of a bit of a laugh. You picked a really fucking weird time to do it.

I very clearly never labelled you that, but yeah, I did say what I saw fit.

I mean, I didn't do any of that. Didn't use history. Didn't attack you. Didn't mention anything about how the state of Israel acts, as Israel is clear not the subject of either of our posts.

Clearly didn't know that about your father. I'm very sorry to hear that Geoff.

Perhaps if you look at the bigger picture rather than label people who disagree with you it might be a start, for me and don't get me wrong I am not trivialising this anti- semitism issue , it looks to me and any casual political observer as just another convenient stick to beat Corbyn with and this actually in my opinion devalues the anti-semitism problem throughout our society when used to try to make political capital on this rather than widen it out as a problem within society rather than just a few Labour MP's you don't like !

[classycarra]

Perhaps if you look at the bigger picture rather than label people who disagree with you it might be a start, for me and don't get me wrong I am not trivialising this anti- semitism issue , it looks to me and any casual political observer as just another convenient stick to beat Corbyn with and this actually in my opinion devalues the anti-semitism problem throughout our society when used to try to make political capital on this rather than widen it out as a problem within society rather than just a few Labour MP's you don't like !

Geoff, you just labelled me and accused me of a bunch of things that didn't happen. I don't have a problem looking at the bigger picture, I certainly don't think I missed the bigger picture in my posts just then or would be requiring a lecture from you if I did. Especially when you've gone and said that bit in bold. I mean you couldn't even finish that sentence without trivilialising anti-semitism.

Now before you plow in and tell me this is a stick to beat Corbyn with, you'll notice I haven't mentioned him and that in fact you started this discussion, not me. I do think the twitter anti-semitism from Labour affiliates is a problem though, and I think a worrying number of people trivilialising anti-semitism within the Labour party, including people who are on hugging-on-camera-terms with the leader, is a problem too

If you're genuine in wanting to do something about this at a societal level, then what better place to start than the three men doing regular media appearances, spouting some heinous shit, it in the last couple of days. To suggest that they should all three be ignored, and it should instead be widened out (ie ignored) to wider society, would risk looking all too much like your stance is trivial and more concerned with minimising scrutiny on these associates of the Labour leader, than on any kind of societal-level action

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Reading this thread it seems that many will soon be hailing "The Good Old Days of Maggie Thatcher."

Some seem to have more in common with her idiology than anything else. 'New Labour' largely failed (Lots of people are very, very angry with its architect)  and it's clear that people don't particularly want it back. The Tories now are far, far right of where Thatcher wouldn't even dare to go.

It seems that thesedays Thatcher would be seen as 'central-ish' more than anything else.

[JohnnoWhite]

In a way the Labour Palestine tweet is very honest, if a little oblique. It also shows how easy it is to be both anti-Zionist andanti-Semitic. They see the Two-State solution (which is still Labour Party policy) as a temporary state of affairs that will end the occupation of the West Bank. But the step beyond that, which they favour, is the Final Solution. This phrase is obviously meant to deeply hurt Jews, but it also makes clear that they view the physical elimination of the Jewish population of the Middle East with total equanimity. That is honest. Basically they would like to compete the job started by Hitler.

For you to determine that what some anti-Zionist /anti-Jewish twats hiding within and contaminating my Labour Party have deemed the acceptable use of an appalling historical Nazi phrase as (my bolded) final prase of your post is a total and absolute fucking disgrace. It is an offence not just to the Labour party but to humanity.  How this board's mods have allowed you to make it without any form of admonition being posted in your specific direction is also a fucking disgrace.

Part of my extended family are Jewish.  My late brother in law Steve was married to my sister - as lovely a fella you would ever wish to meet - was Jewish though non-religious. My nephew and neice are regarded as Jewish by their blood. And so by extension are their children. Although the sister he loved very much chose to have a home there,Steve refused ever to go to Israel whilst its government's policies were so blatantly oppressive of the Palestinian people. Demonstrably, he was politically anti-Zionist.
I will try and be a little more specific here. He was anti the oppression of a captive people by what he believed to be a Fascist Zionist government in Jerusalem

His politics were "geographically" on the left - a location with which I know you will be unfamiliar. So, given your deeply offensive remarks as to "finishing the job started by Hitler" [ just how do you, how does ANYONE of conscience sit down calmly and write such anti-humanitarian filth and then seek to use it in the context of ANY political debate? ] would you regard Steve as an anti-semite despite his lineage, blood and heritage?

Your views and your willingness to post at depths no-one of real conscience would ever allow themselves to willingly go are an abomination of an honest political position. Your offence is not to Socialists, Corbynistas, anti-Zionists and Palestinians. Your offence is far greater than that.  You and by their collective failure to say ANYTHING in this forum to censure your choice of language so are your silent supporters on this forum guilty of the vilest offence to decency and humanity. After this post, the thread is all yours. I won't enter it again. It has strayed way beyond the title it bears and is now disgracefully demeaned and tainted. Shalom/Salaam.

[classycarra]

Johnno, I think you've had a catastrophic failure of imagination. Yorky wrote about what that scummy Twitter post said. It is possible to put yourself into another persons shoes and try to see things from their perspective. I would have thought it was clear as day that what he wrote is not his viewpoint.

While writing your mini essay announcing your imminent (74th) permanent departure from this thread, did you not stop to think, even once, that maybe you'd misunderstood what you're getting worked up about?

Your hyperbolic labeling of his short post displays a shocking lack of awareness, perspective, imagination, historical understanding and above all proportion. I mean look at the state of this:

"prase of your post is a total and absolute fucking disgrace. It is an offence not just to the Labour party but to humanity"
"write such anti-humanitarian filth"
"post at depths no-one of real conscience would ever allow themselves to willingly go are an abomination of an honest political position"

[filopastry]

Reading this thread it seems that many will soon be hailing "The Good Old Days of Maggie Thatcher."

Some seem to have more in common with her idiology than anything else. 'New Labour' largely failed (Lots of people are very, very angry with its architect)  and it's clear that people don't particularly want it back. The Tories now are far, far right of where Thatcher wouldn't even dare to go.

It seems that thesedays Thatcher would be seen as 'central-ish' more than anything else.

Is "Thatcherite" the new "Red Tory"?

[J_Kopite]

Reading this thread it seems that many will soon be hailing "The Good Old Days of Maggie Thatcher."

Some seem to have more in common with her idiology than anything else. 'New Labour' largely failed (Lots of people are very, very angry with its architect)  and it's clear that people don't particularly want it back. The Tories now are far, far right of where Thatcher wouldn't even dare to go.

It seems that thesedays Thatcher would be seen as 'central-ish' more than anything else.

A lot of people are going to be "very, very angry" with the architect of this new kinder, gentler politics when a hard Brexit happens.

[Alan_X]

For you to determine that what some anti-Zionist /anti-Jewish twats hiding within and contaminating my Labour Party have deemed the acceptable use of an appalling historical Nazi phrase as (my bolded) final prase of your post is a total and absolute fucking disgrace. It is an offence not just to the Labour party but to humanity.  How this board's mods have allowed you to make it without any form of admonition being posted in your specific direction is also a fucking disgrace.

Part of my extended family are Jewish.  My late brother in law Steve was married to my sister - as lovely a fella you would ever wish to meet - was Jewish though non-religious. My nephew and neice are regarded as Jewish by their blood. And so by extension are their children. Although the sister he loved very much chose to have a home there,Steve refused ever to go to Israel whilst its government's policies were so blatantly oppressive of the Palestinian people. Demonstrably, he was politically anti-Zionist.
I will try and be a little more specific here. He was anti the oppression of a captive people by what he believed to be a Fascist Zionist government in Jerusalem

His politics were "geographically" on the left - a location with which I know you will be unfamiliar. So, given your deeply offensive remarks as to "finishing the job started by Hitler" [ just how do you, how does ANYONE of conscience sit down calmly and write such anti-humanitarian filth and then seek to use it in the context of ANY political debate? ] would you regard Steve as an anti-semite despite his lineage, blood and heritage?

Your views and your willingness to post at depths no-one of real conscience would ever allow themselves to willingly go are an abomination of an honest political position. Your offence is not to Socialists, Corbynistas, anti-Zionists and Palestinians. Your offence is far greater than that.  You and by their collective failure to say ANYTHING in this forum to censure your choice of language so are your silent supporters on this forum guilty of the vilest offence to decency and humanity. After this post, the thread is all yours. I won't enter it again. It has strayed way beyond the title it bears and is now disgracefully demeaned and tainted. Shalom/Salaam.

Fuck me Jonno. Yorky was referring to a tweet that contained the phrase ‘Final Solution’ which is about as offensive as you can get.

He wasn’t talking about your brother in law as I’m fairly certain he didn’t know him. As I pointed out, when Katie Hopkins used the phrase in a tweet she was universally condemned and sacked from her job at LBC. Shouldn’t we have the same zero tolerance attitude in this case? 

You can hide your head in the sand and pretend that there aren’t people on the left who believe in the Jewish conspiracy and are rabidly anti-Semitic. Just because you or anyone else wants justice for Palestine without being anti-Semitic it doesn’t follow that everyone else who wants justice for Palestine shares your tolerance of the Jewish people.

[Libertine]

Finally, we can get rid of those damn privatised travel agents.... 

[Yorkykopite]

For you to determine that what some anti-Zionist /anti-Jewish twats hiding within and contaminating my Labour Party have deemed the acceptable use of an appalling historical Nazi phrase as (my bolded) final prase of your post is a total and absolute fucking disgrace. It is an offence not just to the Labour party but to humanity.  How this board's mods have allowed you to make it without any form of admonition being posted in your specific direction is also a fucking disgrace.

So, given your deeply offensive remarks as to "finishing the job started by Hitler" [ just how do you, how does ANYONE of conscience sit down calmly and write such anti-humanitarian filth and then seek to use it in the context of ANY political debate? ] would you regard Steve as an anti-semite despite his lineage, blood and heritage?

Your views and your willingness to post at depths no-one of real conscience would ever allow themselves to willingly go are an abomination of an honest political position. Your offence is not to Socialists, Corbynistas, anti-Zionists and Palestinians. Your offence is far greater than that.  You and by their collective failure to say ANYTHING in this forum to censure your choice of language so are your silent supporters on this forum guilty of the vilest offence to decency and humanity. After this post, the thread is all yours. I won't enter it again. It has strayed way beyond the title it bears and is now disgracefully demeaned and tainted. Shalom/Salaam.

What a strange post! "Anti-humanitarian filth", "absolute fucking disgrace",  "an offence to humanity", "an abomination", "the vilest offence to decency and humanity".

I know you have a ripe writing-style but after this tirade I had to go back and check what I said. Indeed, I wondered for a moment whether I'd posted something in an alcoholic stupor, or whether I might have been hacked. But no, the post that has sent you into orbit is one that complains of the Labour Friends of Palestine advocating a "Final Solution" to what might (politely) be termed 'The Middle Eastern Problem'.

It's a wonder to me that anyone would want to defend that phrase. You obviously do. All the breast-beating phrases you use against me - 'offence to humanity' etc - might better be employed against someone advocating a Final Solution, don't you think? In fact I was mild in my criticism of the tweet. I said it was "honest, if a little oblique". I should have used something stronger. And now I will. It was an "abomination" (to nick your own word about me). Who, really, would disagree with that?

It's been mentioned by your side-kick that any RAWK criticism of the tweet by Labour Friends of Palestine is "just another convenient stick to beat Corbyn with." Such a charge is very similar to Len McCluskey's recent comment about "mood music". But it is entirely baseless. I never mentioned Corbyn, and nor did anyone else who was aghast at the Final Solution tweet. Corbyn hasn't said anything about it (so far as I know) but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say that the leader of the Labour party is probably horrified that anyone on the Left is advocating a Final Solution. You should be too Johnno, instead of accusing me of "anti-humanitarian filth".

Hope that settles it. I know Johnno has just resigned again from the thread ('Last Posts' vol 3 is out in October by the way) but I will accept an apology in good grace if he sees fit. 

 

[TravisBickle]

For you to determine that what some anti-Zionist /anti-Jewish twats hiding within and contaminating my Labour Party have deemed the acceptable use of an appalling historical Nazi phrase as (my bolded) final prase of your post is a total and absolute fucking disgrace. It is an offence not just to the Labour party but to humanity.  How this board's mods have allowed you to make it without any form of admonition being posted in your specific direction is also a fucking disgrace.

Part of my extended family are Jewish.  My late brother in law Steve was married to my sister - as lovely a fella you would ever wish to meet - was Jewish though non-religious. My nephew and neice are regarded as Jewish by their blood. And so by extension are their children. Although the sister he loved very much chose to have a home there,Steve refused ever to go to Israel whilst its government's policies were so blatantly oppressive of the Palestinian people. Demonstrably, he was politically anti-Zionist.
I will try and be a little more specific here. He was anti the oppression of a captive people by what he believed to be a Fascist Zionist government in Jerusalem

His politics were "geographically" on the left - a location with which I know you will be unfamiliar. So, given your deeply offensive remarks as to "finishing the job started by Hitler" [ just how do you, how does ANYONE of conscience sit down calmly and write such anti-humanitarian filth and then seek to use it in the context of ANY political debate? ] would you regard Steve as an anti-semite despite his lineage, blood and heritage?

Your views and your willingness to post at depths no-one of real conscience would ever allow themselves to willingly go are an abomination of an honest political position. Your offence is not to Socialists, Corbynistas, anti-Zionists and Palestinians. Your offence is far greater than that.  You and by their collective failure to say ANYTHING in this forum to censure your choice of language so are your silent supporters on this forum guilty of the vilest offence to decency and humanity. After this post, the thread is all yours. I won't enter it again. It has strayed way beyond the title it bears and is now disgracefully demeaned and tainted. Shalom/Salaam.

 Fuck me. Is talking about "the final solution" in relation to Jewish people acceptable or not? If you say yes, I think there's only one "disgrace to humanity" here.

[ShakaHislop]

Finally, we can get rid of those damn privatised travel agents.... 

How do you nationalise food? Do you ban all food imports?

[Libertine]

How do you nationalise food? Do you ban all food imports?

Who knows? Collectivisation of farms? Instant nationalisation of every food product that gets pitched on Dragon's Den? Or only those that get investment?

Can see some case for the top 4 in that graph. The worry is that any Labour government with its hard left leadership wouldn't stop there. As Rupert Myers said on Twitter this morning - "is all of history just most people eventually forgetting how bad something was and then trying it again".

[Lush is the best medicine...]

How do you nationalise food? Do you ban all food imports?

chavismo style food handouts?

[JohnnoWhite]

You quoted that shite here - you gave it life-breath and the provenance it never deserves. Why did you do that I wonder? And your usual sarky bollux about last posts by me demonstrate your never-failing sniping instead of which you ought to have been vilifying that fucking disgraceful post made by some faceless bastards claiming to be Labour for Palestine.

So we are now ALL tarred with that brush of filth are we? Fuck that pal !! Whatever that source, whosoever penned it should be strung up by the bollux and you shouldn't be dirtying your mouth repeating it in here rather than appearing to acquiesce to it rather than slating it with your "finishing off what Hitler started" remark.

That's the essence of my outrage and disgust - with them for having the inhumanity to post it in the first place and with you for "interpreting" it and regurgitating it for consumption on this board.

[Yorkykopite]

Johnno, you can't pretend you've not broken your curfew by attaching my name to your post! Please edit!

I'll miss you if you do leave though. I always read your posts out loud in a trembling Manc accent, as if standing in an evangelical Baptist pulpit, on the verge of righteous tears, fulminating against someone or other. Often me!

Please don't go.

[So… Howard Philips]

I can't believe some on here are defending a snide reference to the final solution by deflecting the argument to the wrongs carried out by the the Israeli government.

Weird that they can't untangle the justified criticism of a government subjecting people to a form of apartheid and a shitty reference to a phrase the Nazis used to camouflage their campaign go genocide.

And who brought Corbyn into the argument?

[Alan_X]

.

Jonno - wind your neck in for fuck's sake.

[TepidT2O]

I’ve been extremely shocked by the rise of antisemitism on the left.  It’s not something I’ve ever experienced in my lifetime and I find it quite disturbing.

I suspect Corbyn isn’t an antisemite.  However he has written to defend people who made antisemitism comments and were rightly castigated for them (see the vicar of Virginia  waters for example).  In addition he seems to have many friend who are happy to use antisemitism language and behaviour.  Take the antisemitism enquiry.  A Jewish female journalist was subject to abuse, the guy was a personal acquaintance of Corbyn, so much so that he stated he was going to phone him later.

Now, I can forgive many things.  Greed, selfishness, a weak temper, insobriety etc... but I’ve never been able to forgive such overt racism. Me? I’d never speak to them, Id quietly cut them off and ignore them.

I cannot, just cannot understand why someone who states that they have such good intentions would be prepared to hang around with such disgusting racists.

And once I find I can’t answer that question, I can’t accept anything the man does in my name.
I don’t set the bar very high really, don’t constantly associate with racists, holocaust deniers and bigots.

Just me maybe?  Hey ho

[Lush is the best medicine...]

You ain’t the only one, man of principle happy to hang with anti semites

[Mutton Geoff]

I’ve been extremely shocked by the rise of antisemitism on the left.  It’s not something I’ve ever experienced in my lifetime and I find it quite disturbing.

I suspect Corbyn isn’t an antisemite.  However he has written to defend people who made antisemitism comments and were rightly castigated for them (see the vicar of Virginia  waters for example).  In addition he seems to have many friend who are happy to use antisemitism language and behaviour.  Take the antisemitism enquiry.  A Jewish female journalist was subject to abuse, the guy was a personal acquaintance of Corbyn, so much so that he stated he was going to phone him later.

Now, I can forgive many things.  Greed, selfishness, a weak temper, insobriety etc... but I’ve never been able to forgive such overt racism. Me? I’d never speak to them, Id quietly cut them off and ignore them.

I cannot, just cannot understand why someone who states that they have such good intentions would be prepared to hang around with such disgusting racists.

And once I find I can’t answer that question, I can’t accept anything the man does in my name.
I don’t set the bar very high really, don’t constantly associate with racists, holocaust deniers and bigots.

Just me maybe?  Hey ho

Well if you want to judge every political leader by the company they keep, you might find that's a large and murky road you will be going down. 

[TepidT2O]

Well if you want to judge every political leader by the company they keep, you might find that's a large and murky road you will be going down. 

It makes me question them.  That they have the personal number of the most disgusting racists? I find that most disturbing.

His brother is of course a renowned conspiracy theorist, antisemite and holocaust questioner .... but you can’t pick your family.... but the others?  Vile.

[JohnnoWhite]

Jonno - wind your neck in for fuck's sake.

Alan - out of this thread as of now. There'll be no more in response to anyone on this board although some of them around this thread will doubtless stay squeaky clean - sarky as fuck as you see on the current page but hey fuck 'em. Enough of 'em in truth. Bye.

[classycarra]

Alan - out of this thread as of now. There'll be no more in response to anyone on this board although some of them around this thread will doubtless stay squeaky clean - sarky as fuck as you see on the current page but hey fuck 'em. Enough of 'em in truth. Bye.

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