Author Topic: The Labour Party (*)  (Read 897381 times)

Offline Circa1892

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13160 on: September 27, 2017, 11:33:50 am »
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/27/labour-denial-antisemitism-party-dark-place

The good news is that Len, Ken and Ken all say they have experienced no antisemitism in the Labour party. Which must mean all is well. Surely only a pedant would point out that Ken Loach, Len McCluskey and Ken Livingstone are not Jewish and that might limit their authority to speak on the matter.

Indeed, they have been fixtures on the left so long – Loach is 81, Livingstone is 72 and McCluskey is 67 – perhaps they should sit as a panel. They could be the three wise men who arbitrate on all allegations of bigotry within Labour’s ranks. Then, if they testify that they have experienced no sexism, racism, Islamophobia or homophobia inside the party, we will know those menaces are blissfully absent from the prejudice-free nirvana that is the Labour family.

More seriously, you would like to think that this trio, as longtime leftists, would have enough self-knowledge to recognise that, when it comes to, say, bias against women, black or LGBT people, straight, white men might not be best placed to judge. Yet, oddly, no such self-restraint seems to apply when it comes to anti-Jewish racism. Those who are not targeted suddenly feel fully entitled to tell those who are exactly what is – and what isn’t – prejudice against them.

Indeed, Len and Ken Loach go much further. They don’t just tell Jewish Labour supporters that they are mistaken to detect antisemitism around them, they tell them they have made it all up – and that they have done so for sinister, nefarious purposes. “I believe it was mood music that was created by people who were trying to undermine Jeremy Corbyn,” McCluskey told BBC’s Newsnight. (Again, for an avowed progressive to describe an ethnic minority’s experience of racism as “mood music” is quite a break from the usual accepted practice.)

Loach expressed his scepticism differently. “It’s funny these stories suddenly appeared when Jeremy Corbyn became leader, isn’t it?”, the filmmaker told the BBC’s Daily Politics. But he was making the same point. Meanwhile, Livingstone was on the radio cheerfully saying that it was perfectly possible to say offensive things about Jews without being anti-Jewish. He too has long argued that this whole business is bogus and confected, and that Labour does not have any kind of antisemitism problem.

And yet the evidence was there in Brighton if you were willing to see it. There were the Labour party Marxists handing out a paper that repeated Livingstone’s toxic claim of ideological solidarity between the Nazis and those German Jews who sought a Jewish homeland. There were the loud calls for the expulsion of Jewish groups one of which has been part of the Labour movement for a century. Hardly a surprise that some Jewish activists turned away from the conference, describing an atmosphere that felt too hostile to endure.

But no, for Len and the Kens and their allies, it’s all made up. Perhaps they don’t realise that that itself is a tired anti-Jewish trope: that Jews invent stories of suffering to drive a secret political agenda. Or, to put it more simply, that there is a Jewish conspiracy.

 Labour’s amendment on antisemitism should reassure Jewish supporters
Keith Kahn-Harris
 Read more
It means that a man like Ken Loach – an artist so sensitive he is capable of making a film like “I, Daniel Blake” – ends up lending a spurious legitimacy to Holocaust denial. Asked to react to a speaker at a Brighton fringe meeting who had said Labour supporters should feel free to debate any topic, including the veracity of the Holocaust – “did it happen or didn’t it happen”, as the BBC interviewer put it – Loach could not give a simple, unequivocal denunciation of Holocaust denial. “I think history is for all of us to discuss,” he said.

Remember, Loach had not been asked whether there should be discussion of the meaning of the Nazi slaughter of the Jews. He had been asked about the fact of it happening. And on that, he said there should be discussion – the same apparently innocuous formulation routinely advanced by hardcore Holocaust deniers.

When distinguished men of the left are echoing, even inadvertently, the language of holocaust denial, when the leader of Britain’s biggest trade union is rehashing the age-old notion of a Jewish conspiracy, you know you have entered a dark place. It’s not impossible to navigate your way out. But first you have to admit that you’ve got badly lost.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13161 on: September 27, 2017, 11:33:50 am »
The Tories are heading for a No Deal scenario. They want it. That is frightening in the extreme. Labour centralising/nationalising would have checks and balances - the ability to adjust. The Tories want to rip everything up.

The Brexit headbangers certainly don't want a close deal, but even those lunatics aren't a majority of the Tory MPs (although they probably are of their members).

I don't think the Labour leadership particularly want a close deal either, they just have to sound a bit more positive on it to appease the membership.

Realistically there aren't many a la carte options around with the EU at present, that will change over time but for now we don't appear to have much negotiating power unsurprisingly, so its a case of give in to most of the EU demands in the hope that they might be "fair" in trade discussions, or face down the likelihood of the cliff edge.

If you got to the situation where Labour got into power with a hefty majority and a much more Corbynite make-up of MPs and the rest looking over their shoulders at the possibility of deselection, exactly what checks and balances would there be outside the EU.

My fear remains that Labour will rapidly get addicted to borrowing more to throw at everything, as long as it can somehow be labelled investment, especially when it proves tougher to increase the tax take than expected (which is nearly always the case).

I had actually been thinking the same as the Guardian piece myself, what are Labour planning that is significantly to the left of the Scandinavian countries which happily exist inside the EU.

Online oldfordie

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13162 on: September 27, 2017, 11:39:51 am »
I haven't got a clue Im sure someone will sort it out if it was needed.

I have also wondered how will they make up for all the fuel duty when everyone is driving electric cars?

I guess it could be all cars will be chipped and everywhere is a toll road and you are charged so much a mile or road tax at about £2000 a year or something.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/nccryZOcrUg" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/nccryZOcrUg</a>
It is a brilliant idea but very dangerous for the UK to go it alone. the more I think about it the more I believe the multi nationals will think they have to stamp this out in the bud, they would move production to other countrys to deter other countrys from introducing a similar tax.
I doubt if younger people appreciate the impact technology has had on jobs.
I worked in car factory before robots were introduced. 13.000 workers producing under 60 cars per hour. efficiencies did reduce this number but technology wiped out whole areas.
We had less than 2.500 workers by the turn of the century producing over 85 cars per hour, the car industry saturated the market with a fraction of the workforce.
Don't get me wrong nobody can stand in the way of technology. you have to keep up with the latest technology to remain efficient otherwise you cant compete but when it was first introduced the argument was made that it would result in more jobs, it was also implied that the state would benefit from all this new technology which would enable us all to reap the benefits.
The Labour leadership have to understand this is a world wide problem, if we go it alone then the multi nationals will react and fight back.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 01:05:35 pm by oldfordie »
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Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13163 on: September 27, 2017, 11:41:10 am »
The Tories are heading for a No Deal scenario. They want it. That is frightening in the extreme. Labour centralising/nationalising would have checks and balances - the ability to adjust. The Tories want to rip everything up.
what checks and balances? Only one is the EU but they want out of that and are happy for the tories to have carte Blanche power over it, and when it comes to their own party there doesn’t seem to be much of that, such as the antisemitism which is seemingly quite common but you get pathetic punishments like livingstones

Online filopastry

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13164 on: September 27, 2017, 11:44:22 am »
Nation states generally need to band together more to force through increased standardisation of taxation regimes, to stop companies having such large incentives to relocate profits to friendlier tax jurisdictions or at least reduce its impact.

If we didn't do that in response to the global financial crisis, I'm not holding my breath on making much significant progress now.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 11:50:54 am by filopastry »

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13165 on: September 27, 2017, 11:45:25 am »
The excellent Jonathan Freedland nails it. On why three ancient lefties - Livingstone, Loach and McCluskey - are always so dismissive about Labour's anti-Jewish problem.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/27/labour-denial-antisemitism-party-dark-place

More seriously, you would like to think that this trio, as longtime leftists, would have enough self-knowledge to recognise that, when it comes to, say, bias against women, black or LGBT people, straight, white men might not be best placed to judge. Yet, oddly, no such self-restraint seems to apply when it comes to anti-Jewish racism. Those who are not targeted suddenly feel fully entitled to tell those who are exactly what is – and what isn’t – prejudice against them.

Indeed, Len and Ken Loach go much further. They don’t just tell Jewish Labour supporters that they are mistaken to detect antisemitism around them, they tell them they have made it all up – and that they have done so for sinister, nefarious purposes. “I believe it was mood music that was created by people who were trying to undermine Jeremy Corbyn,” McCluskey told BBC’s Newsnight. (Again, for an avowed progressive to describe an ethnic minority’s experience of racism as “mood music” is quite a break from the usual accepted practice.)


EDIT: I see Circa got there before me.

And, looking at it again, I notice this bit:

It means that a man like Ken Loach – an artist so sensitive he is capable of making a film like “I, Daniel Blake” – ends up lending a spurious legitimacy to Holocaust denial. Asked to react to a speaker at a Brighton fringe meeting who had said Labour supporters should feel free to debate any topic, including the veracity of the Holocaust – “did it happen or didn’t it happen”, as the BBC interviewer put it – Loach could not give a simple, unequivocal denunciation of Holocaust denial. “I think history is for all of us to discuss,” he said.

Freedland is forgetting that the "sensitive" filmmaker Ken Loach once directed the play 'Perdition' whose central argument was that Jews collaborated with Nazis to produce the Holocaust.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 11:50:02 am by Yorkykopite »
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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13166 on: September 27, 2017, 11:53:16 am »
Nation states generally need to band together more to force through increased standardisation of taxation regimes, to stop companies having such large incentives to relocate profits to friendlier tax jurisdictions or at least reduce its impact, but if we didn't do that in response to the global financial crisis, I'm not holding my breath on making much significant progress now.
EU are working on tax laws across member states to cut down on avoidance aren’t they?

It is a brilliant idea but very dangerous for the UK to go it alone. the more I think about it the more I believe the multi nationals will think they have to stamp this out in the bud, they would move production to other countrys to deter other countrys from introducing a similar tax.
I doubt if younger people appreciate the impact technology has had on jobs.
I worked in car factory before robots were introduced. 13.000 workers producing under 60 cars per hour. efficiencies did reduce this number but technology wiped out whole areas.
We had less than 2.500 workers by the turn of the century producing over 85 cars per hour, the car industry saturated the market with a fraction of the workforce.
Don't get me wrong nobody can stand in the way of technology. you have to keep up with the latest technology to remain efficient otherwise you cant compete but when it was first introduced the argument was made that it would result in more jobs, it was also implied that the stae would benfit from all this new technology which would enable us all to reap the benefits.
The Labour leadership have to understand this is a world wide problem, if we go it alone then the multi nationals will react and fight back.

the biggest drawback I can think of is less tech firms locate/startup here and therefore less jobs/good quality jobs in the country, greater dependence on the welfare state with less tax revenues to rely on

Offline killer-heels

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13167 on: September 27, 2017, 11:57:02 am »
As I said yesterday, Loach's comments on anti semitism were ridiculous, or should that be his lack of comment. If Trump or Republicans stated they had never seen any racist comment, they too would be accused of lying at worst and being tone deaf at best.

Offline classycarra

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13168 on: September 27, 2017, 12:04:13 pm »
https://twitter.com/BBCr4today/status/912952533219528704

What happens if inflation rises past 5% during the Brexit turmoil?
I'll be rich in a few years!

After a couple of years of that, I might be a Zimbabwe style millionaire!

Online oldfordie

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13169 on: September 27, 2017, 12:08:24 pm »
How do you define a robot?

Now make that definition proof against a multinational corporate legal department.
How do you differentiate between a piece of machinery and a robot.
IMO. The basic difference is a robot can be taught to do different jobs on different pieces of materials etc.
We know how they do this, a computer program tells them to do this, change the program and the robot can do an entirely different job.
A piece of machinery is built to do a specific job.

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Online oldfordie

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13170 on: September 27, 2017, 12:31:36 pm »
the biggest drawback I can think of is less tech firms locate/startup here and therefore less jobs/good quality jobs in the country, greater dependence on the welfare state with less tax revenues to rely on
Yeah I think that would happen but the multi nationals would know other governments would look on with interest to see if it's a success, if it was a success then it could encourage other countrys around the world to introduce a similar tax. thats without getting into the added cost the companys would add to their products to restore profit margins. which would also make their UK companys far less attractive.
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It feels as if the major from Fawlty Towers has taken over the Tory campaign.
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Offline hide5seek

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13171 on: September 27, 2017, 12:56:58 pm »
Worthless online poll, probably highjacked by one group or another.
Online polls might not be the best way to guage public reaction, but it's the first poll i've seen. Be interesting to see f you are correct in the coming days (assuming anyone else wil ask the ame questions).

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13172 on: September 27, 2017, 01:03:26 pm »
Yeah I think that would happen but the multi nationals would know other governments would look on with interest to see if it's a success, if it was a success then it could encourage other countrys around the world to introduce a similar tax. thats without getting into the added cost the companys would add to their products to restore profit margins. which would also make their UK companys far less attractive.

The argument needs to be won at international level. This is precisely why leaving the EU makes such a tax more difficult to consider and to implement.

This is why the Labour party is heading nowhere. The power of international capital needs clipping. Practically everyone accepts that. But it can only effectively be clipped by transnational bodies - ones that are answerable to electorates.

But Labour is in retreat from the world. I understand why Corbyn wants nothing to do with the EU. He's a dinosaur who still thinks in terms of 'socialism in one country' and whose 'internationalism' contains no economics - only expressions of solidarity with various 'anti-imperialist' regimes and paramilitary groups. But I can't understand why so many Labour members want to follow him into 'Little Englander' oblivion. Corbyn and McDonnell's autarkic economic solutions to inequality and poor industrial productivity did not make sense even in the 1970s, when capital and labour were not nearly as liquid as they are now. Today they are quite simply a joke. The decision to not vote on Brexit - which Trada accurately reminds us was taken by the membership as a whole and not just the cabal round Corbyn - is the clearest sign yet that the Labour party is not fit for government.
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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13173 on: September 27, 2017, 01:36:45 pm »
The argument needs to be won at international level. This is precisely why leaving the EU makes such a tax more difficult to consider and to implement.

This is why the Labour party is heading nowhere. The power of international capital needs clipping. Practically everyone accepts that. But it can only effectively be clipped by transnational bodies - ones that are answerable to electorates.

But Labour is in retreat from the world. I understand why Corbyn wants nothing to do with the EU. He's a dinosaur who still thinks in terms of 'socialism in one country' and whose 'internationalism' contains no economics - only expressions of solidarity with various 'anti-imperialist' regimes and paramilitary groups. But I can't understand why so many Labour members want to follow him into 'Little Englander' oblivion. Corbyn and McDonnell's autarkic economic solutions to inequality and poor industrial productivity did not make sense even in the 1970s, when capital and labour were not nearly as liquid as they are now. Today they are quite simply a joke. The decision to not vote on Brexit - which Trada accurately reminds us was taken by the membership as a whole and not just the cabal round Corbyn - is the clearest sign yet that the Labour party is not fit for government.
Yeah, as you say we can't act alone, we need the whole of Europe to introduce the same legislation in unison otherwise the major companys will just cripple the country and we are helpless to fight back.
It annoys me when people argue unelected commissioners running the EU, how this would be introduced is a perfect example to show how the EU is democratic and works to protect workers rights etc, a Labour government would instruct our commissionaire to put forward the proposal of a robot tax to the commission, a refusal to do so would result in another commissionaire being appointed as the commissionaires job is to represents our governments wishes not his own views.(the EU will disagree but that's how things work in practice) in time hopefully all governments in Europe agree and instruct their commissionaires to vote to pass the proposal. it gets passed down to the EU parliament for the 600 odd MEPs to endorse and it becomes EU law. what do the multi nationals do then, their f... they cant withdraw from the whole of Europe.
The EU is far more socialist than Corbyn+co give them credit it for, they would help Labour policys far more than they give them credit for. ive no idea why they refuse to accept this, I think it must be old outdated opinions formed decades ago, I don't put it down to ignorance.
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Offline Libertine

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13174 on: September 27, 2017, 01:42:13 pm »
Is the plan to continue speaking until another election is called?

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13175 on: September 27, 2017, 01:43:34 pm »
Is the plan to continue speaking until another election is called?

"Constant campaign mode"

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13176 on: September 27, 2017, 01:57:02 pm »
The excellent Jonathan Freedland nails it. On why three ancient lefties - Livingstone, Loach and McCluskey - are always so dismissive about Labour's anti-Jewish problem.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/27/labour-denial-antisemitism-party-dark-place


Is there correlation, do you think, with being prehistoric members on the regressive left and having the blandest, most boring names imaginable? No offence to anyone called Jeremy, Len or Ken on here - I'm sure you aren't dull, prehistoric weirdos.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13177 on: September 27, 2017, 02:12:22 pm »
Good to see rent controls being pushed aggressively today.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13178 on: September 27, 2017, 02:35:16 pm »
Its laughable that the British public has shifted to the left, in the way it was ridiculous in the way it was claimed the country had shifted to the hard right.

Its been and still is smack bang in the centre.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13179 on: September 27, 2017, 02:39:37 pm »
Is there correlation, do you think, with being prehistoric members on the regressive left and having the blandest, most boring names imaginable? No offence to anyone called Jeremy, Len or Ken on here - I'm sure you aren't dull, prehistoric weirdos.
Occasionally I pop in here to see if there is anything of note beyond the normal Corbyn bashing led by the usual cabal of Lib Dem voters, being conference week I thought maybe people would be looking outwards, but I really shouldn't of bothered should I?
 
Imagine boring names being such an important topic. As an Albie born into a generation of Gary, Neils and Grahams I have some capital here, I knew what 'A Boy named Sue' was about, I've served my time....

As babies, Jeremy, Len and Ken should have risen up and shunned their parents for calling them popular names of their times and instead forseen that having a fashionable name is the future. ::)

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Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13180 on: September 27, 2017, 02:45:01 pm »
The situation with Corbyn and the rest of Labour isn't that different from Trump and the GOP is it?

Austerity is Labour's equivalent of "but her emails!"; the election "win" is like Trump's bragging about his inauguration size; Labour want to "drain the swamp" of divided Tory Brexit negotiators and er, replace them with divided Brexit negotiators; "for the many, not the few" = MAGA; White House staff have to put the media straight on the Tiny Handed Dipshit's Twitter musings in similar fashion to Labour figures clarifying what Corbyn really means on the likes of Trident and student debt and then there's Labour MPs and GOP politicians falling into line behind the man with the connection to the base in order to hold onto power.

As for Tory-GOP comparisons, Soubry is John McCain.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13181 on: September 27, 2017, 02:46:41 pm »
Newsnight saying long bailey is someone seriously considered for future leader :lmao :lmao :lmao

Well ... in my opinion her speech to Conference this year was one of the best. Content-wise, anyway; her delivery needs work. But very strong on the challenges of automation. Worth a listen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKS6LXWFdBc


Offline classycarra

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13182 on: September 27, 2017, 03:00:20 pm »
Occasionally I pop in here to see if there is anything of note beyond the normal Corbyn bashing led by the usual cabal of Lib Dem voters, being conference week I thought maybe people would be looking outwards, but I really shouldn't of bothered should I?
 
Imagine boring names being such an important topic. As an Albie born into a generation of Gary, Neils and Grahams I have some capital here, I knew what 'A Boy named Sue' was about, I've served my time....

As babies, Jeremy, Len and Ken should have risen up and shunned their parents for calling them popular names of their times and instead forseen that having a fashionable name is the future. ::)



Imagine being so worked up by a few criticisms of Corbyn - that you've obviously not felt able to argue - that you can't see what was obviously a flippant comment about a name, and assume it's a serious point on "an important topic"! What do you make of Len, Ken and Ken? That's far more important.

You may have been thinking of another poster when calling me a lib dem voter, or maybe were just blankly trying to dismiss my point of view since you don't agree. Never voted anything other than Labour (and I've never missed a vote since turning 18).

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13183 on: September 27, 2017, 03:07:19 pm »
Imagine being so worked up by a few criticisms of Corbyn - that you've obviously not felt able to argue - that you can't see what was obviously a flippant comment about a name, and assume it's a serious point on "an important topic"! What do you make of Len, Ken and Ken? That's far more important.

You may have been thinking of another poster when calling me a lib dem voter, or maybe were just blankly trying to dismiss my point of view since you don't agree. Never voted anything other than Labour (and I've never missed a vote since turning 18).

I suspect the LibDem voter bit was aimed at me amongst others, I actually voted Labour at the last election (although that was local candidate rather than leadership driven) and was a Labour member until a few months ago until I pretty much had enough, I would self identify as centre left.

But if it makes people happy to just label me as a lifelong LibDemmer then so be it. ;)

For me politics isn't like supporting a football team I will back whoever matches my views most closely, and I view the current leadership as having utterly betrayed people like me over Brexit.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13184 on: September 27, 2017, 03:47:14 pm »
Occasionally I pop in here to see if there is anything of note beyond the normal Corbyn bashing led by the usual cabal of Lib Dem voters, being conference week I thought maybe people would be looking outwards, but I really shouldn't of bothered should I?
 
Imagine boring names being such an important topic. As an Albie born into a generation of Gary, Neils and Grahams I have some capital here, I knew what 'A Boy named Sue' was about, I've served my time....

As babies, Jeremy, Len and Ken should have risen up and shunned their parents for calling them popular names of their times and instead forseen that having a fashionable name is the future. ::)



I got to say it's characteristic of you occasional 'eavesdroppers' to avoid the substantive issues that are frequently raised in this thread by *Labour supporters and members* and concentrate instead on getting all annoyed by some clearly frivolous and light-hearted remark.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13185 on: September 27, 2017, 04:33:58 pm »
Meanwhile in canary land:

https://twitter.com/thecanarysays/status/912995520024629255



Already proven to be a total lie (not a shock), but still nice to see the labour left continuing this shit against her

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13186 on: September 27, 2017, 04:47:06 pm »
wouldnt do as much damage and would be easier to fix. Not to mention whoever is in charge of this shitshow will be out of power for a good while and I’d rather the tories suffered that fate

Once they've completely dismantled the Social System and the NHS and privatised everything then I can't see how that's going to be easy to fix?

Maybe I'm missing something..?
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They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13187 on: September 27, 2017, 04:47:51 pm »
Occasionally I pop in here to see if there is anything of note beyond the normal Corbyn bashing led by the usual cabal of Lib Dem voters, being conference week I thought maybe people would be looking outwards, but I really shouldn't of bothered should I?
 
Imagine boring names being such an important topic. As an Albie born into a generation of Gary, Neils and Grahams I have some capital here, I knew what 'A Boy named Sue' was about, I've served my time....

As babies, Jeremy, Len and Ken should have risen up and shunned their parents for calling them popular names of their times and instead forseen that having a fashionable name is the future. ::)




:lmao

Nice one
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They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13188 on: September 27, 2017, 05:30:13 pm »
Quote
Nadia Khomami‏
@nadiakhomami

Asked a Corbyn fan what was nxt for Corbynmania. "Corbyn posters everywhere" he said. "I dnt want to walk 100m without seeing Jeremy's face"

Weirdo.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13189 on: September 27, 2017, 05:46:53 pm »


That is seriously weird.

I do hope it was someone taking the piss.

It's a bit dictatorship or banana republic like, a desire for pictures of the 'Leader' everywhere, though the banana bit may well prove a reasonable description when it comes to describing the probable state of our economy in ten years time after the dust of brexit and the criminal inaction of all concerned from right and left over its consequences has settled and become reality.

I don't do polite so fuck yoursalf with your stupid accusations...

Right you fuckwit I will show you why you are talking out of your fat arse...

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13190 on: September 27, 2017, 06:04:38 pm »
That is seriously weird.

I do hope it was someone taking the piss.

It's a bit dictatorship or banana republic like, a desire for pictures of the 'Leader' everywhere, though the banana bit may well prove a reasonable description when it comes to describing the probable state of our economy in ten years time after the dust of brexit and the criminal inaction of all concerned from right and left over its consequences has settled and become reality.
I'm generally supportive of Corbyn's policies compared to recent Labour leadership, not that I'm uncritical, far from it. I hope that today's speech where he promised unimpeded access to the single market, is the start of salvaging something from the mess of Brexit but I'm terrified by some of the hagiography we are seeing. It will come back and haunt us. Politics is a messy game and delivering is going be hard and won't be helped by believing the leader is infallible, I love the optimism of youth and prefer it everytime to the cynicism of age but I'd much prefer this aspect to be addressed now
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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13191 on: September 27, 2017, 06:10:44 pm »
I'm generally supportive of Corbyn's policies compared to recent Labour leadership, not that I'm uncritical, far from it. I hope that today's speech where he promised unimpeded access to the single market, is the start of salvaging something from the mess of Brexit but I'm terrified by some of the hagiography we are seeing. It will come back and haunt us. Politics is a messy game and delivering is going be hard and won't be helped by believing the leader is infallible, I love the optimism of youth and prefer it everytime to the cynicism of age but I'd much prefer this aspect to be addressed now

Yes I had missed the speech today, and it was good to see some genuinely more optimistic noises on the Single Market, albeit still concerned that Labour seemed to have meandered all over the place on this particular issue, so not sure if we will be looking at a different direction again next week. (although they are hardly alone in that respect)

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13192 on: September 27, 2017, 06:17:55 pm »
For some it has a flavour of this:


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/john-mcdonnell-video-labour-marxist-economic-crash-jeremy-corbyn-a7309651.html

I have a deep distrust of anyone who stands by during Brexit for personal / party advantage. History will be incredibly damning on them.

The irony of having Naomi Klein* as a key speaker was clearly lost on them.

*Author of The Shock Doctrine which "...centers on the exploitation of national crises to push through controversial policies while citizens are too emotionally and physically distracted by disasters or upheavals to mount an effective resistance..."
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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13193 on: September 27, 2017, 06:24:49 pm »
That is seriously weird.

I do hope it was someone taking the piss.

It's a bit dictatorship or banana republic like, a desire for pictures of the 'Leader' everywhere, though the banana bit may well prove a reasonable description when it comes to describing the probable state of our economy in ten years time after the dust of brexit and the criminal inaction of all concerned from right and left over its consequences has settled and become reality.
I was going to mention this the other day but it's all unconfirmed news on twitter. there are stories of civil servants involved with Brexit saving every email etc, they believe we could have another Chilcot type report into Brexit in years to come so their covering their backsides.
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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13194 on: September 27, 2017, 06:38:21 pm »
The irony of having Naomi Klein* as a key speaker was clearly lost on them.

*Author of The Shock Doctrine which "...centers on the exploitation of national crises to push through controversial policies while citizens are too emotionally and physically distracted by disasters or upheavals to mount an effective resistance..."

I'm currently reading it at the moment, Brexit very much does spring to mind, but, as you say, it was probably lost on them.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13195 on: September 27, 2017, 06:39:54 pm »
Well ... in my opinion her speech to Conference this year was one of the best. Content-wise, anyway; her delivery needs work. But very strong on the challenges of automation. Worth a listen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKS6LXWFdBc

Sorry mate but she basically did a Paul Mason - technology is going to sort everything out and there'll be an app for it.

How is it all going to happen?  There's a lot of discussion about how prosperity will be shared but where does the prosperity come from?
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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13196 on: September 27, 2017, 06:44:06 pm »
Sorry mate but she basically did a Paul Mason - technology is going to sort everything out and there'll be an app for it.

How is it all going to happen?  There's a lot of discussion about how prosperity will be shared but where does the prosperity come from?

This is what I'd like to know too. Where are the policies that will actually lead to good jobs being created?

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13197 on: September 27, 2017, 07:17:18 pm »
Meanwhile in canary land:

https://twitter.com/thecanarysays/status/912995520024629255



Already proven to be a total lie (not a shock), but still nice to see the labour left continuing this shit against her

It wasn't a total lie the website is different now they changed it but if you check the website archive she was down as invited to speak which is what they said.

« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 07:19:34 pm by Trada »
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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13198 on: September 27, 2017, 07:19:31 pm »
It wasn't a total lie the website is different now they changed it but if you check the website archive she was down as invited to speak

Say more.

Was she slated to speak in support of Tory ideas?
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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #13199 on: September 27, 2017, 07:24:14 pm »
It wasn't a total lie the website is different now they changed it but if you check the website archive she was down as invited to speak which is what they said.

But they could have invited the Dalai Lama, doesn't mean he would have any intention of turning up. Its nothing to do with the person who is invited.
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