Author Topic: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)  (Read 10657 times)

Offline Ciara (with a capital "C")

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Anyone else following this closely? It's a big, big week for Adnan.

I know many of you followed the first season of Serial, focusing on the murder of Hae Min Lee - a high school student in Baltimore, and the subsequent arrest and conviction of her ex-boyfriend, Adnan Syed.

Adnan has been in prison since 2000.

Whilst Serial was fantastic at bringing the story to the public's attention, and gaining interest due to the did-he-didn't-he aspect, the Undisclosed Podcast went much further. Funded by the Adnan Syed Trust, Undisclosed was formed of three attorneys: Rabia Chaudry (who initially brought the case to Sarah Koenig of Serial and who is also the sister of Adnan's best friend - both can be heard in the early episodes of Serial), Colin Miller and Susan Simpson. They delved straight into the case and uncovered some whopping evidence and missing pieces of the jigsaw. Another podcast - Truth & Justice with Bob (formerly the Serial Dynasty Podcast) did some great work too, unearthing some fascinating discoveries.

Thanks to this work being done, and new lawyers for Adnan, he was granted a post-conviction hearing which takes place this week - starting on Wednesday through to Friday.

This is what Adnan's lawyers will bring up at the hearing:

1. The cellphone evidence that was used to convict Adnan should not have been used at all.
Undisclosed discovered amongst the case files and notes, a letter from AT&T claiming that the cell tower 'pings' are 'unreliable' and shouldn't be used for any degree of accuracy. The state used these records to place Adnan at the supposed crime/burial scene.

2. Adnan had an alibi and a witness, placing him in the school library at the time of the murder.
Adnan's classmate, Asia McClean, came forward at the time to say she saw Adnan in the library, at the time Hae was supposed to have been killed - she was never contacted by Adnan's lawyer at the time - Cristina Guttierez. She will take the stand at the trial.

Guttierez made some absolute howlers in this case including these omissions above - not reading or misreading the cover sheet from AT&T and not calling Asia to testify. Adnan's lawyers will attempt to use her poor counsel as his constitutional right to fair counsel being violated.

Those are the facts with regards to what will be brought up at the hearing. The possible outcomes for Adnan:

- He wins and a re-trial is ordered
- He wins and the Court send the case up to a higher court to decide
- He loses
- Conviction gets thrown out

Away from the courtroom, here are some other interesting developments to come out of Undisclosed/Truth & Justice Pod

- Jay's Police Interview - Tapping

During the interviews between Jay and the Police, there was a tapping noise picked up throughout. It appears that when Jay is answering police questions, he is quite hesitant - he pauses a lot and comes across confused. When he starts to speak, he will pause and there is tapping noises heard, like a pen tapping on a table, and he suddenly remembers the 'correct answer'. Or if he is saying something the police don't like, they will interrupt him and you hear the tapping again and suddenly he remembers something very important. It's all there to hear in Undiclosed. Obviously Jay's story changed so much, from his first testimony to what he said in court - you can see this being nicely sewn up during the interviews, thanks to the Police interjections.

- The Reward/Anonymous Tip Off

EW explain this much better than me, so I am going to copy and paste it:

First, the facts: there was a CrimeStoppers reward of $3,075 being offered in the case. An indictment typically triggers recovery of the reward. The lead detective on the case would usually report the indictment to CrimeStoppers by the first of the next month, leading to payment of the reward by the following month.

Now, the case: Undisclosed claims Wilds may have wanted the reward money to buy a motorcyle – something police may have known, too. To better understand this, we need to look back at Feb. 12, when someone supposedly made two anonymous calls to Detective Massey, telling him to look into Lee’s ex-boyfriend. This tip allegedly led cops to focus on Syed. On March 18, Wilds went on a ride-along with Detectives Ritz and MacGillivary, retracing his alleged movements on Jan. 13. According to Undisclosed, there are notations in the ride-along notes about a Mr. Brown and a particular type of Suzuki motorcycle that has 9,000 miles. At the end of the notes, the word “REWARD” is written in all caps. Mr. Brown turned out to be Karl Brown, the only person out of the nearly 20 school faculty and staff members interviewed by cops that had no connection to both Syed and Lee. Brown was Wilds’ soccer coach, and he was in the process of trying to sell his Suzuki RF600. In the detectives’ interview itinerary were two Kelley Blue Book printouts for two Suzuki motorcycle models, as they presumably did not know which model Brown had for sale. Based on standard depreciation calculations, its expected resale value was approximately $3,000. However when reached by Undisclosed, Brown said he had sold the motorcycle to someone else.

On April 13, Syed was indicted. This should have triggered the recovery of the CrimeStoppers reward, but it didn’t. Fast forward to Sept. 7, when the lead prosecutor, Kevin Urick, allegedly set up a meeting between Wilds and attorney Anne Benaroya, who agreed to represent him pro bono, and hashed out a plea deal that same day that ultimately resulted in Wilds’ getting no prison time after testifying against Syed at trial. Undisclosed learned that the full $3,075 reward was paid out to the tipster on Nov. 1. Though nothing can be confirmed until the tipster’s identity is revealed, the podcast believes all signs point to Wilds being the person who made the CrimeStoppers tip. Anyone else could have presumably recovered the reward money by June since the indictment occurred two months prior. The hosts imply that the Nov. 1 payment on the tip could mean the detectives were waiting for Wilds’ plea deal before reporting the indictment to CrimeStoppers based on the fear of Wilds backing out of the case after getting the reward. They claim it could be possible that Wilds was interested in the reward money to buy Brown’s motorcycle, even though it was ultimately sold to someone else. If the tipster does turn out to be Wilds, the failure to disclose this information would be a Constitutional violation that would lead to a new trial.


- Don... The Boyfriend

Don was entirely brushed over in Serial. Don was Hae's current boyfriend, at the time she was murdered. He had an alibi for the time of her death/burial, which was confirmed by the store he worked in - Hae also worked here too. He was ruled out as a potential suspect.

Erm...

Don worked in the same store each week (lets call this Store A) but when Hae was killed, he said he was working at a different store - at another location (lets call this Store B). When the Police followed this up, it was confirmed by the Store Manager (Store B). The Store Manger confirmed the date and times he worked there, any lunch break he had etc... but the Store Manger wasn't actually working that day. The Store Manager (Store B) just happens to be Don's mother.

To muddy the waters further, when the Police asked for all records of Don working for the Company - the only files that could be produced showed that Don wasn't working at the store he said he was (Store B), the week Hae died. Following a conversation between Det. Urick and the legal department of the Company Don worked for, found a time sheet which showed Don working at the store he said he was (Store B), on the day Hae was killed. Some work by the Truth and Justice podcast showed that there was a good chance these time sheets were falsified, due to Don having two employee ID - every other employee had one, which they used no matter what store they worked at. The time sheet given to Urick contained an ID different to what Don would have used anywhere else.

Other suspicions that the time sheets were altered came from the manager at his normal store (Store A), who corroborated when he initially said he was working and what times. But this Store Manager (Store A) would have absolutely no access to the records in another store - unless they were told by someone at the other store, or Don himself. This Store Manager (Store A) just happens to be Don's mother's girlfriend - his Stepmother.

Read more here from Susan Simpson: http://viewfromll2.com/2015/03/19/serial-the-question-of-dons-alibi/

- Lividity in Hae's body

This is very complex and I'm not sure I can even explain it properly.

Here's what I understand: From Hae's autopsy, it was concluded that she had frontal lividity, meaning she was on her front for a long, long time after she died. Adnan was effectively convicted because the cell phone records put him in Leakin Park, where Hae's body was found, at about 7pm - matching Jay's testimony. The medical examiners records show that her body wasn't burried until at least 8 hours after she died - probably longer than that. If Hae left school at 2:15pm, this shows she couldn't have been killed until at least 10:15pm, throwing Jay's witness statements out the window.

It's a bit more complicated than that, but you can read more here: http://viewfromll2.com/2015/02/12/serial-the-burial-in-leakin-park-did-not-take-place-at-700-p-m/


 
There are other inconsistencies and lies that crop up throughout - there was no wrestling match, the butt dial/Nisha call, the condition the car was in when it was discovered, DNA in the car etc... it's all very interesting and if a new trial is granted, it will be absurd to hear all of this evidence and inconsistencies come to trial, based off some excellent work by some podcasts.

I can't recommend Undisclosed enough. I found the first two/three episodes hard to listen to - the production wasn't great, it was a bit intense etc... but it picked up after that and the work they did was fantastic. It felt like every week there was something new or groundbreaking. Obviously, funded by the Adnan Trust, they are very much geared towards proving Adnan's innocence and having him released.

I personally don't think he did and I absolutely believe he shouldn't have been convicted on the evidence they had. Now their biggest piece of evidence has been shown to be unreliable, it's hard to see how he won't win a retrial at worst.

I don't know who did it but I have suspicions about Don and I'd like him to have been investigated further. I have no idea what Jay's involvement in all of this is or why/how he got in so deep. Hopefully that will come out and they can look to find Hae's real killer.

If anyone is interested in the trial - some accounts to follow on Twitter:

- https://twitter.com/Undisclosedpod/ (Undisclosed Podcast)
- https://twitter.com/rabiasquared (Rabia)
- https://twitter.com/TheViewFromLL2 (Susan)
- https://twitter.com/EvidenceProf (Colin)
- https://twitter.com/TruthJusticePod (Bob)
- https://twitter.com/CJBrownLaw (Adnan's Lawyer)

Rabia will be with Adnan's family in court this week, and I believe Susan and Colin will be there too. It was ruled that it won't be televised - they don't do that in Maryland, but there will be updates during the interval and Adnan will be there in court.

#FreeAdnan



Offline Redman0151

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #1 on: February 1, 2016, 12:56:46 pm »
This will be absolutely intriguing to see, judging off Serial it seemed clear to me that there was no way he should have been found guilty. Whether he really did it, i'm not sure, but there's definitely reasonable doubt.
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Offline Anywhichwayicant

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #2 on: February 1, 2016, 09:12:09 pm »
A really horrible investigation.

This will be absolutely intriguing to see, judging off Serial it seemed clear to me that there was no way he should have been found guilty. Whether he really did it, i'm not sure, but there's definitely reasonable doubt.
This is it for me too. After listening to it, I wasn't screaming "HE'S DEFINITELY INNOCENT", but other potential suspects seemed to be ignored far too easily.

Also, that bloke that found the body when going for a piss, very suss for me. Especially given how hard they said it was to actually see the hair that was sticking out of the ground.

Offline Andy_lfc

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #3 on: February 2, 2016, 12:28:44 am »
snip

Will definitely give Undisclosed a listen, but with the understanding that it has come from people absolutely looking to free Adnan, from his side, so am not expecting balance to be their by-word.

From your post, I would understand why Serial didn't go near some of that stuff.  Serial was at pains to remain neutral throughout, only giving an opinion in the final episode.  Serial wanted to leave you the decision to make over guilt/innocence, this is out there to prove innocence.

That said, I am looking forward to giving it a listen!

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #4 on: February 2, 2016, 09:24:15 am »
Will definitely give Undisclosed a listen, but with the understanding that it has come from people absolutely looking to free Adnan, from his side, so am not expecting balance to be their by-word.

From your post, I would understand why Serial didn't go near some of that stuff.  Serial was at pains to remain neutral throughout, only giving an opinion in the final episode.  Serial wanted to leave you the decision to make over guilt/innocence, this is out there to prove innocence.

That said, I am looking forward to giving it a listen!

That's why I mentioned it was funded by the Adnan Trust as they make no bones about why they are doing this - they believe Adnan is innocent and was wrongly convicted - they just want to help overturn that. I'm by no means a legal expert or even an enthusiast but the evidence they have uncovered brings new light to the case and leaves you dumbfounded, as to how the Police can hone in on one guy (Adnan) and push for a conviction, without even giving a though to others being involved.

There are some similarities to Making a Murderer.

With Serial, I just think Sarah didn't realise what she was getting herself into. Whether it was time, lack of resources, it's hard to know but there was so much more there for her to cover. Maybe they wanted to keep it light, because it does get intense - very intense. But it's brilliant - Serial told the overview of the story, Undisclosed took that public interest and ran with it. I think I read recently it has 60 million listeners.

But yes! Get involved!

Offline Andy_lfc

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #5 on: February 2, 2016, 07:55:07 pm »
That's why I mentioned it was funded by the Adnan Trust as they make no bones about why they are doing this - they believe Adnan is innocent and was wrongly convicted - they just want to help overturn that. I'm by no means a legal expert or even an enthusiast but the evidence they have uncovered brings new light to the case and leaves you dumbfounded, as to how the Police can hone in on one guy (Adnan) and push for a conviction, without even giving a though to others being involved.

There are some similarities to Making a Murderer.

With Serial, I just think Sarah didn't realise what she was getting herself into. Whether it was time, lack of resources, it's hard to know but there was so much more there for her to cover. Maybe they wanted to keep it light, because it does get intense - very intense. But it's brilliant - Serial told the overview of the story, Undisclosed took that public interest and ran with it. I think I read recently it has 60 million listeners.

But yes! Get involved!

Have only listened to episodes 1 and 2, but I can completely see what you are saying.  Already it's mental what they have been able to discredit and reveal about the case already and I have another 15 episodes plus addendums to go!  I wont spoil, but that revelation abut the Wrestling match alone makes me question everything I already thought I knew...

So thanks for the tip, will get through this in no time!

Offline Ciara (with a capital "C")

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #6 on: February 3, 2016, 10:13:13 am »
Have only listened to episodes 1 and 2, but I can completely see what you are saying.  Already it's mental what they have been able to discredit and reveal about the case already and I have another 15 episodes plus addendums to go!  I wont spoil, but that revelation abut the Wrestling match alone makes me question everything I already thought I knew...

So thanks for the tip, will get through this in no time!

I am so unbelievably jealous of you! I'd love to be back in that position, listening for the first time!

The episodes are great in the sense that they are different lengths, and none go on for too long - and some of the addendums feature some listener questions which I thought was good.

The production gets much better as it goes, so enjoy the ride!


Offline Ciara (with a capital "C")

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Offline Ciara (with a capital "C")

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #8 on: February 3, 2016, 04:00:33 pm »
Rabia has been sequestered  :-X :-[ :wanker

Sarah Koenig is in court too.

https://twitter.com/seemaiyeresq is tweeting from the Court inbetween breaks.

Offline Redman0151

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #9 on: February 5, 2016, 01:15:55 pm »
There's a new serial episode from Sarah out about what's happened so far.

All of a sudden that Asia Alibi is looking quite weak
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Offline Andy_lfc

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #10 on: February 6, 2016, 07:11:06 am »
There's a new serial episode from Sarah out about what's happened so far.

All of a sudden that Asia Alibi is looking quite weak

Not really, especially if you have followed what happened on Day 3 - the Defence specialist that was looking at the performance of Guttierez as a defence attorney has stated that she was reliable and if called at the original trials, could have had an impact on the verdict of the jury.

This is not a retrial, it is a Post Conviction Review based on the claim of ineffective assistance of counsel due to no plea deal being submitted and the failure of his trial defence attorney to even make contact with Asia McLain as a prospective alibi witness.  The fact that she is able to cast doubt on the states case and potentially introduce more reasonable doubt about Adnan's guilt suggests that she probably should have been called to testify at trial, and at the very minimum be contacted by the defence team to decide whether she had any information that was important to the case.  It's the fact she wasn't contacted by Guttierez even though she was identified to her by her client is the crux of the failing I think.

I would definitely listen to Undisclosed if you have an interest in the case, some of the stuff they have uncovered in their forensic investigation of the case is shocking to say the least.

Offline Andy_lfc

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #11 on: February 6, 2016, 07:14:24 am »
I am so unbelievably jealous of you! I'd love to be back in that position, listening for the first time!

The episodes are great in the sense that they are different lengths, and none go on for too long - and some of the addendums feature some listener questions which I thought was good.

The production gets much better as it goes, so enjoy the ride!



I'm working through it, on Cell towers today, the more I hear, the stronger the stink of a stitch up gets.  Thanks for pointing me in the direction of this podcast, it is hard work but so worthwhile.

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #12 on: February 8, 2016, 10:11:07 am »
I'm working through it, on Cell towers today, the more I hear, the stronger the stink of a stitch up gets.  Thanks for pointing me in the direction of this podcast, it is hard work but so worthwhile.

It is tough at times, very intense - some episodes I had to listen to again, as it is easy to switch off - especially when Colin speaks, I find. But worth it, because it is so, so impressive.


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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #13 on: February 8, 2016, 10:14:57 am »
There was a bit of a bombshell yesterday evening - Bob Ruff, from the Truth and Justice podcast, who has been doing his own investigations and uncovered some great finds, released his latest podcast last night.

He had two profilers on there - including an English lady, who analysed Jay's first recorded interview. They did it independently then shared their results with Bob. Both are convinced Jay was not only lying, but also had absolutely nothing to do with the case.



In his closing monologue, Bob had this to say...

(I transcribed it this morning myself, for friends who are interested in the case but don't listen to Bob's podcast).



"In my opinion, Jim and Laura's analysis was absolutely spot on. And it was incredible to me that they both came to the exact same conclusions, independently of each other. They didn't corroborate with each other at all. They both heard the recording for the first time with me sitting there in front of them and I can attest to the fact that neither one of them shared any information with the other when they were taking their notes, and I mentioned at the beginning of the episode, the minute we shut the recording off we went directly into the studio and began recording.

So the fact that both of them came to the same conclusion independently is huge for me and in my opinion, they just blew this case wide open.

I've suspected for a long time that Jay Wilds didn't actually know anything about the crime. But now I can say that I am 100% convinced... Jay knows nothing about this crime. He was absolutely coerced into giving that testimony. And I hope that Ritz and MacGilivray are held accountable for what they've done.

And I want to take this opportunity to speak to Mr Wilds for a moment...

I don't know if he's listening but I hope to god that he is.

Jay, it has taken a lot of time and a lot of effort to figure out what happened back in 1999. But it is obvious at this point that we know that you had nothing to do with this. And we understand why you did what you did.

But the time to hide and hope that this goes away is over.

By the time you hear this message, Adnan's post-conviction relief hearing will be over. I'm recording this episode before I leave to go to this hearing so I don't know yet how it went. But God willing, if all goes well, Adnan will be out of that prison soon.

You've chosen not to come clean for all this time. You've lost the opportunity I gave you months ago to get out in front of this. You chose not to help Adnan and you chose to let Hae's killer walk free.

But now it's time for you to make a decision for yourself.

If Adnan Syed is exonerated, this case will be re-opened. I know who Hae's killer really was and I have the case to prove it. But if you don't come forward... now... I'm never going to get the chance, because the Baltimore police departments only move if Adnan Syed gets exonerated is to go after you and charge you with the murder.

For any other person to be guilty of this murder, they would have to admit corruption. They would have to admit coercion. And they're never going to do that. What they are going to do is make a case against you. You already made it for them - you've already gone on the record saying you already know all the elements of this crime - the information they fed you. You've been living with this tragedy for 17 years and if you don't make the decision to tell the truth, you're going to pay for it for the rest of your life and Hae Min Lee's killer will continue to walk free.

This is your chance to make the people that did this to you, that did it to Adnan, that did this to Hae Min Lee pay for what they've done. This is your chance for justice."

Offline Andy_lfc

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #14 on: February 8, 2016, 01:04:08 pm »
There was a bit of a bombshell yesterday evening - Bob Ruff, from the Truth and Justice podcast, who has been doing his own investigations and uncovered some great finds, released his latest podcast last night.
etc...

Proper bombshell right there... and you do realise you have given me even more hours of podcast to listen to now... Just listened to the levels of corruption, making up eye witnesses, coercion, threats and withholding exculpatory evidence that was going on in the Baltimore Police Department - all based on previously overturned convictions.  What a mess.

I hope today goes well...


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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #15 on: February 8, 2016, 03:56:33 pm »
Wish Sarah Koenig was in court for this big day, series 2 can wait another week!

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #16 on: February 8, 2016, 07:44:45 pm »
Wish Sarah Koenig was in court for this big day, series 2 can wait another week!

I was a bit sad about that too. She said she had to get the series 2 podcast out. I would have thought that just about every single member of her audience would have preferred she report o the hearings and the other podcast could wait a week.

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #17 on: February 8, 2016, 08:06:27 pm »
I was a bit sad about that too. She said she had to get the series 2 podcast out. I would have thought that just about every single member of her audience would have preferred she report o the hearings and the other podcast could wait a week.
Agreed. And even if she can't be there, surely some member of the editorial staff could make it.
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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #18 on: February 9, 2016, 11:21:00 am »
Wish Sarah Koenig was in court for this big day, series 2 can wait another week!

She was there... at least for someone of it?

https://serialpodcast.org/season-one/adnan-syeds-hearing

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #19 on: February 9, 2016, 02:16:00 pm »
She was there... at least for someone of it?

https://serialpodcast.org/season-one/adnan-syeds-hearing
Right, last week. This week she wasn't going to be there.
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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2016, 10:22:37 am »
For anyone downloading Undisclosed, there are quite a few episodes.

A bit of advice would be to start at the very beginning - Adnan's Day and work from there in order. There are Addendums which feature which are good, they go over some things in the previous pod if there are uncertainties based on listener questions, or if there's new info about Adnan's appeal etc... You can skip the Q&As, they are with the hosts and something you can come back to.

The episodes aren't that long, so even though there are quite a few they go quite quickly! The Addendums are just a few minutes each.

The first 2/3 episodes aren't as a slick as Serial in terms of production and quality but it deffo improves tenfold.

Offline Andy_lfc

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2016, 10:42:06 pm »
For anyone downloading Undisclosed, there are quite a few episodes.

A bit of advice would be to start at the very beginning - Adnan's Day and work from there in order. There are Addendums which feature which are good, they go over some things in the previous pod if there are uncertainties based on listener questions, or if there's new info about Adnan's appeal etc... You can skip the Q&As, they are with the hosts and something you can come back to.

The episodes aren't that long, so even though there are quite a few they go quite quickly! The Addendums are just a few minutes each.

The first 2/3 episodes aren't as a slick as Serial in terms of production and quality but it deffo improves tenfold.

I would agree with all of that.. I've made it to Episode 15 now and can recommend anyone taking the time to listen to this, the detail in their investigation and their dissection of the evidence presented gives welcome depth to the overall narrative presented by Serial.

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2016, 09:32:10 pm »
@CJBrownLaw: WE WON A NEW TRIAL FOR ADNAN SYED!!! #FreeAdnan

They have won a new trial for Adnan!!

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #23 on: July 1, 2016, 01:13:39 am »
@CJBrownLaw: WE WON A NEW TRIAL FOR ADNAN SYED!!! #FreeAdnan

They have won a new trial for Adnan!!
Massive news.

I had been checking fortnightly guessing that it wouldn't happen and wondering why it had taken so long. Interesting to also see what happens with the Steven Avery case- not that the two are connected but that they fall under the same theme.

I imagine now it will be very difficult to prove him guilty - and that'll be great if he is innocent - but we are still left with the possibility of him walking and the case being unsolved.

Obviously having someone presumed innocent walking the streets and the case unsolved is preferable to someone behind bars on an unsafe conviction. I guess it really makes you angry at the police and the way they honed in on one suspect and built the case around him, rather than having the evidence build the case that we could be entering a situation where we never know what fate fell upon Hae.

Interesting to see how it develops all the same. I guess the woman who runs Serial is licking her lips after her second foray into the US Army case was totally void of any interest for me. Still can't believe she covered the first two days of Adnan's hearing and then dropped it- when it would have been in Serial's best interests to run with both. How can you whip up massive interest in a story and then drop it.
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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #24 on: July 1, 2016, 02:03:35 am »
This is huge.

It's going to be very interesting to see how the prosecution and defence approach this.

I think what the defence has on its side is that there doesn't appear to be enough evidence to convict Adnan.

On the other hand, if the prosecution can still put up a version of the day that's roughly similar to Jay's account, they'd be able to say: if not Adnan, then who? That for me, is the most compelling case for believing he did it.

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #25 on: July 1, 2016, 02:25:56 am »
Yep but it's already a circumstantial case - without the cell tower evidence - then it becomes even weaker. Be interesting what new evidence this now allows the defence to introduce as well - especially in terms of the lividity evidence which also puts dents in the prosecutions versions of events.
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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #26 on: July 1, 2016, 10:30:40 am »
This is huge.
On the other hand, if the prosecution can still put up a version of the day that's roughly similar to Jay's account, they'd be able to say: if not Adnan, then who? That for me, is the most compelling case for believing he did it.

Any decent defence lawyer worth their fees would be able to punch gaping holes through Jay's account, it has even since changed recently in an interview he gave completely destroying the prosecution's original timeline.

'If not Adnan then who' is certainly no reason to believe a man guilty of murder with no other clear evidence or reliable witnesses.

I am assuming this verdict will be appealed by the state, so any new trial will not be for some time.  My personal view is that this will never go back to trial.  There is huge suspicion of prosecutorial misconduct and the states case has been so thoroughly pulled apart in public that I would be surprised if they wanted all that laid bare in a court of law.  But lets see.

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #27 on: July 1, 2016, 02:17:36 pm »
Any decent defence lawyer worth their fees would be able to punch gaping holes through Jay's account, it has even since changed recently in an interview he gave completely destroying the prosecution's original timeline.

'If not Adnan then who' is certainly no reason to believe a man guilty of murder with no other clear evidence or reliable witnesses.

I am assuming this verdict will be appealed by the state, so any new trial will not be for some time.  My personal view is that this will never go back to trial.  There is huge suspicion of prosecutorial misconduct and the states case has been so thoroughly pulled apart in public that I would be surprised if they wanted all that laid bare in a court of law.  But lets see.
I believe the defence only won the appeal on two points of the three, so the prosecution only need appeal on one, and if they win that one, I have no idea if Adnan has a level of appeal beyond that.

All still a bit unclear really at this stage, but I agree with the poster above, I can't see them committing to another trial
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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #28 on: July 1, 2016, 02:22:24 pm »
If I ever go down for murder, can one of you please make an extremely popular podcast about my case, please?
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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #29 on: July 1, 2016, 02:36:24 pm »
If I ever go down for murder, can one of you please make an extremely popular podcast about my case, please?

Make sure there's some element of doubt or it could the first podcast where we discover the crimes were actually so much more heinous that the sentence given should be upped to life without parole!

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #30 on: July 4, 2016, 07:55:22 am »
What grounds does the state have to appeal on?

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #31 on: July 4, 2016, 12:38:51 pm »
What grounds does the state have to appeal on?

I'm not entirely sure...

I did read Colin Miller stating that they can't present any new evidence or information at trial, so it would be based on any evidence that is already out there. Given the judge's view of the cell tower evidence, I can't see them going back down that route.

EDIT: I might ask them this question!

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #32 on: July 4, 2016, 01:06:40 pm »
This is huge.

It's going to be very interesting to see how the prosecution and defence approach this.

I think what the defence has on its side is that there doesn't appear to be enough evidence to convict Adnan.

On the other hand, if the prosecution can still put up a version of the day that's roughly similar to Jay's account, they'd be able to say: if not Adnan, then who? That for me, is the most compelling case for believing he did it.

Might they turn around and target Jay? He has admitted to seeing the body and to help bury it. If Adnan didn't kill her, or if there isn't enough evidence to convict him, then will they turn to Jay for an easy prosecution? But then the cell phone evidence has been shown to be unreliable, which was used to track Jay/Adnan's movements so maybe it would be difficult to pin this on Jay.

There is talk of an Alford plea, which from what I can gather, means Adnan retaining his innocence but admitting that he can see why a jury could prosecute him. He couldn't be convicted again. But with the evidence that they have collected in the years since his conviction, it's hard to imagine why they would let it end like that. They desperately want him released but the actions of Ritz, MacGilivray etc... there are a lot of unanswered questions there - it's hard to see them letting that go.

Then again, there has been a guy in prison for 16 years and potentially an unsolved murder. All of that comes before the wants of a podcast, despite how crucial they have been to this, and how close they are to Adnan and his family.

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #33 on: July 5, 2016, 01:44:35 am »
There is talk of an Alford plea, which from what I can gather, means Adnan retaining his innocence but admitting that he can see why a jury could prosecute him.
Yeah, he'd likely get time served, and be released. While he may be released it is still a guilty plea that means in the eyes of the authorities he would be at fault for the murder- at least thats what I could tell from Rabia on the addendum.

I equally don't know why he would/should accept one.
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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #34 on: July 5, 2016, 02:38:44 am »
Might they turn around and target Jay? He has admitted to seeing the body and to help bury it. If Adnan didn't kill her, or if there isn't enough evidence to convict him, then will they turn to Jay for an easy prosecution? But then the cell phone evidence has been shown to be unreliable, which was used to track Jay/Adnan's movements so maybe it would be difficult to pin this on Jay.

There is talk of an Alford plea, which from what I can gather, means Adnan retaining his innocence but admitting that he can see why a jury could prosecute him. He couldn't be convicted again. But with the evidence that they have collected in the years since his conviction, it's hard to imagine why they would let it end like that. They desperately want him released but the actions of Ritz, MacGilivray etc... there are a lot of unanswered questions there - it's hard to see them letting that go.

Then again, there has been a guy in prison for 16 years and potentially an unsolved murder. All of that comes before the wants of a podcast, despite how crucial they have been to this, and how close they are to Adnan and his family.

The Alford Plea is how the West Memphis 3 case finally ended. The defense was worried that a new trial would come back with another guilty verdict, so they took the plea- they can still maintain their innocence but it also admits the prosecution may have enough to come back with a guilty verdict. Innocent, yet in the eyes of the law, they murdered those 3 boys (I don't think they did).

I don't know if the prosecution has enough in the Syed case to prove guilt, but I suppose the question is, as we've seen in the Steven Avery case, is there enough to convince a jury he might have done it? Reasonable doubt doesn't seem to be enough in some of these high profile cases. I would worry if I were the defense.

The Alford Plea doesn't prevent further charges against other people, so at least that avenue would still be open.
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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #35 on: July 5, 2016, 03:03:41 am »
I think the fact that this is such a public case will put the state under a lot of pressure to do the right thing. I'm sure they'll want to appeal, or make a deal with Adnan, but whatever they do will be heavily scrutinized in the court of public opinion.

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #36 on: July 6, 2016, 12:48:55 am »
Might they turn around and target Jay? He has admitted to seeing the body and to help bury it. If Adnan didn't kill her, or if there isn't enough evidence to convict him, then will they turn to Jay for an easy prosecution? But then the cell phone evidence has been shown to be unreliable, which was used to track Jay/Adnan's movements so maybe it would be difficult to pin this on Jay.

There is talk of an Alford plea, which from what I can gather, means Adnan retaining his innocence but admitting that he can see why a jury could prosecute him. He couldn't be convicted again. But with the evidence that they have collected in the years since his conviction, it's hard to imagine why they would let it end like that. They desperately want him released but the actions of Ritz, MacGilivray etc... there are a lot of unanswered questions there - it's hard to see them letting that go.

Then again, there has been a guy in prison for 16 years and potentially an unsolved murder. All of that comes before the wants of a podcast, despite how crucial they have been to this, and how close they are to Adnan and his family.

What might be key in this is whether bail can be secured now based on Adnan's conviction being vacated.  You are right in that an Alford plea can be a very tempting offer for someone sat in jail with the prospect of additional years awaiting trial.  If he is bailed I would expect that an Alford plea would be rejected.

The other driver for accepting an Alford plea is financial.  For someone who simply cannot afford a decent defence in a retrial then an Alford plea at least end their ordeal and doesn't increase financial burdens.  I would guess this also isn't an issue for Adnan who now has many backers and donors to his legal fund.

There is also the point that many judges do not even offer Alford pleas as they do not believe them to be a satisfactory outcome.

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #37 on: July 6, 2016, 01:28:46 pm »
Can't believe people are buying into this. Sarah Koenig has an awful lot to answer for.

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #38 on: July 6, 2016, 03:05:10 pm »
Can't believe people are buying into this. Sarah Koenig has an awful lot to answer for.

Do you think there was enough evidence to safely convict him, (not do you think he did it) ?

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Re: The State v Adnan Syed - the Post-Conviction Hearing (this week)
« Reply #39 on: July 6, 2016, 03:07:08 pm »
Do you think there was enough evidence to safely convict him, (not do you think he did it) ?

People say this all the time but without being on the jury it is extremely difficult to know. All I will say is, nobody would ever be convicted without scientific evidence if the internet had its way. Reasonable doubt is seemingly taken to any doubt whatsoever.

I genuinely think he did it though, yes.
« Last Edit: July 6, 2016, 03:09:28 pm by bcurtis92 »