Author Topic: Dejan Lovren (Read 510598 times)

RedRaj · « **Reply #800 on:** April 28, 2017, 11:39:01 am »

Not going down the line of wage comparison as it's meaningless. But why are we extending his contract on bigger wages when he's just not that good. He's not the worst defender either but would any team in the top six of this league or in Spain/Germany/Italy try and buy him? If we do have aspirations to be title contenders, this is precisely the kind of player who shouldn't be playing for us. He is bottom half of the table material. Yet he's plastered on our club website signing his contract as if it's a great coo.

LallanaInPyjamas · « **Reply #801 on:** April 28, 2017, 11:45:23 am »

Quote from: Jookie on April 28, 2017, 11:35:39 am

I agree with this. What I would say is that in Klopp's system you need to be good at zonal positioning, on the ball and being comfortable defending when being pulled into wider positions than in a standard flat back 4. I think Lovren is OK in these regards not great. In a different league I'm not sure Klopp would value Lovren as much as he does in England. In England, teams go long and put a lot of emphasis on set plays. That plays to Lovren's strengths in the air. Klopp's system with a high press in England means teams just go long against you. You need centre backs who can win that physical battle. If you don't have that it completely negates the high press tactics.

Like I said I don't think Lovren is perfect for Klopp's system. I don't think Matip is either by the way. However, I think aerial ability is an absolute must in this system in the Premier League. That's why I think Klopp likes Lovren. The ideal centre back in this system is someone like Rio Ferdinand. r someone with his attributes. Basically someone who is brilliant at the fundamentals but also great on the ball. Not many centre backs knocking around at that level so we need to compromise with the likes of Lovren and Matip.

Good post as always Jookie.

I do think Lovren is slightly quicker than people give him credit for though. I half wonder if he was carrying a knock on Sunday. He just didn't really look at it from the first minute and was obviously replaced late on.

As for his wages, I agree with you that they're exponentially increasing. I just think £100k per week for someone who is likely to be third choice next seasons seems on the steep side.

However if tying down players like Lovren, Can et al as very capable squad players means we never have to see four teenagers on the bench in a crucial game ever again, then perhaps FSG are learning after all.

gamble · « **Reply #802 on:** April 28, 2017, 11:46:45 am »

Just to clarify why we needed to move so fast, was it Real Madrid or Barcelona who were ready to snap him up? I get confused with all the speculation

Bergersrightwingviews · « **Reply #803 on:** April 28, 2017, 11:47:37 am »

Maybe 100k is just the new normal for first team players in the top 6. TV money has grown a lot.

However, in isolation was there any risk that someone else would come in for him and offer him 100k? Was that really the minimum he would accept? Is that 100k really best spent on someone of Lovren's ability?

Felch Aid · « **Reply #804 on:** April 28, 2017, 11:51:38 am »

I can see the sense in this because we have no depth there. Lucas is going, god knows if Gomez will break into the side and Klavan is... Klavan. Matip is first choice but we need him.

Of more interest but surely they'll have to offer Can 100k per week now or does he want 150k?

Jookie · « **Reply #805 on:** April 28, 2017, 11:53:05 am »

Quote from: Al 555 on April 28, 2017, 11:36:39 am

Only if you are stupid enough to pay the premium prices though. It is only in England that we are seeing these stupid kinds of wages across the board. We pay ridiculous transfer fees and astronomical wages and then see our teams being out classed in the Champions League it's a joke.

I'm sure the top clubs in England are paying wages comparative with those at Barcelona, Real, PSG, Juventus and Bayern Munich. And let's be fair these are the only 5 clubs who can compare their financial resources to those top 5 or 6 clubs in the premier league.

The whole CL performances by English clubs is more complex than teams being fleeced for transfer fee and wages (though I'm sure that happens since there seems to be some sort of transfer fee/wage tax for Premier League clubs). Back in the late 2000's English clubs dominated the European competitions. I'm not sure they've collectively got stupider over the last 7 years and that's resulted in poor CL performances.

marto · « **Reply #806 on:** April 28, 2017, 11:53:49 am »

Where's the Sahko police to tell everyone in here to behave and show some respect to a Liverpool player ?

Eeyore · « **Reply #807 on:** April 28, 2017, 11:56:21 am »

Quote from: JackWard33 on April 28, 2017, 11:33:20 am

Spurs are run by wizards though
Not a joke the wage bill there is genuinely amazing

Until you compare it to the likes of Dortmund's or Sevilla's. In January UEFA published a table showing the 20 biggest wage bills in European Football. Swansea were 19th and Villa were 20th. It's nuts.

A Spanish newspaper published the wages of all the Real and Barca players Varane is on 40k a week, Pepe is on 60k, Mascherano, Buschets and Pique just under or just over 100k a week. We are just idiots in this country.

sms1986 · « **Reply #808 on:** April 28, 2017, 11:58:16 am »

Quote from: Al 555 on April 28, 2017, 11:56:21 am

Until you compare it to the likes of Dortmund's or Sevilla's. In January UEFA published a table showing the 20 biggest wage bills in European Football. Swansea were 19th and Villa were 20th. It's nuts.

A Spanish newspaper published the wages of all the Real and Barca players Varane is on 40k a week, Pepe is on 60k, Mascherano, Buschets and Pique just under or just over 100k a week. We are just idiots in this country.

Is it cheaper or more expensive to live in Spain rather than England? Also, do these players you mention have more sponsorship deals that get them more money?

Medellin · « **Reply #809 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:00:12 pm »

It's likely that all these fuckers who have given up on Lovren are probably the same c*nts who had given up on Lallana.
Ye of little faith..

Titi Camara · « **Reply #810 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:03:02 pm »

Quote from: Al 555 on April 28, 2017, 10:38:21 am

Now on the same wages as Harry Kane. LFC the gift that keeps on giving.

Bit of cherry picking there Al....it's also the same as Lingard and not much different than we were paying Skrtel or Agger several years ago.

Quote from: Al 555 on April 28, 2017, 11:05:23 am

In the last accounts our wage bill was £208m. Yet people talk about us spending smart it's a joke. For the same period Spurs wage bill was £110m. Spurs finished 3rd we finished 8th.

Spurs will had the joint best defensive record last season and the best record this season only conceding 22 goals.

How much of those figures relate to the playing staff? Did the £208m not contain the Rodgers & Co severance costs?

JackWard33 · « **Reply #811 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:05:34 pm »

Quote from: Al 555 on April 28, 2017, 11:56:21 am

Until you compare it to the likes of Dortmund's or Sevilla's. In January UEFA published a table showing the 20 biggest wage bills in European Football. Swansea were 19th and Villa were 20th. It's nuts.

A Spanish newspaper published the wages of all the Real and Barca players Varane is on 40k a week, Pepe is on 60k, Mascherano, Buschets and Pique just under or just over 100k a week. We are just idiots in this country.

We probably are idiots in this country but there's no comparison between what Spurs are getting for their wage bill and any of the other top 6. They're the best run club in the league.

M7 Heckler · « **Reply #812 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:07:16 pm »

Petadroli · « **Reply #813 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:09:32 pm »

Well in LFC and Lovren! Important to get deals like this done early

AaronSingh25 · « **Reply #814 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:09:48 pm »

He wouldn't have got that anywhere else.

Tragic.

M7 Heckler · « **Reply #815 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:10:31 pm »

Quote from: Petadroli on April 28, 2017, 12:09:32 pm

Well in LFC and Lovren! Important to get deals like this done early

Before Chelsea and Real Madrid come sniffing?

Shocking. I go and watch these lot every other week and pay thousands of pounds a year, every week I go home wishing his replacement would hurry up and arrive. And we just gave the guy £25m to stay. Honestly, I am absolutely distraught, this is the worst football news all season.

Eeyore · « **Reply #816 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:10:58 pm »

Quote from: JackWard33 on April 28, 2017, 12:05:34 pm

We probably are idiots in this country but there's no comparison between what Spurs are getting for their wage bill and any of the other top 6. They're the best run club in the league.

Agree with that Jack.

The thing that I don't get is us giving players like Mignolet last season and Lovren this season bumper new deals and then looking to go out and replace them. We then end up with the owners unhappy that we have players on massive wages not contributing and then we end up looking to loan them out to offload some of the wages.

It's not as if there would be a queue of Clubs looking to pay Lovren 100k a week.

clinical · « **Reply #817 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:12:58 pm »

Quote from: JackWard33 on April 28, 2017, 12:05:34 pm

We probably are idiots in this country but there's no comparison between what Spurs are getting for their wage bill and any of the other top 6. They're the best run club in the league.

It's generally amazing really. As they generally keep their players too who aren't tempted to run off immediately for more money.

It's almost an expectation now we will pay over odds for players who don't even perform that well. It will be one that's hard to break. If so and so is on that i want x amount etc.

If we reward mediocrity then you have less £ available to bring top players in. Surely a hindrance when wanting to improve.

Lovren should be back up at best next year.

Cpt_Reina · « **Reply #818 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:13:58 pm »

Quote from: Al 555 on April 28, 2017, 12:10:58 pm

Agree with that Jack.

The thing that I don't get is us giving players like Mignolet last season and Lovren this season bumper new deals and then looking to go out and replace them. We then end up with the owners unhappy that we have players on massive wages not contributing and then we end up looking to loan them out to offload some of the wages.

It's not as if there would be a queue of Clubs looking to pay Lovren 100k a week.

...we did try to replace Mignolet.

We will sign another CB this summer.

OsirisMVZ · « **Reply #819 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:14:15 pm »

If we're signing Van Dijk or someone else to be a starter, then Lovren who has improved a lot under Klopp is a much better option as 3rd choice than Klavan or Gomez etc. I still remember what a joke he looked in his first season and how he looked better overnight when Jurgen came in.

Also its not an extra 100k on the wage budget, its an extra 30-40k. Addition and subtraction guys!

SwordInYourGut · « **Reply #820 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:16:29 pm »

Why give a wage increase to a player that no better club will come knocking for?

Redman0151 · « **Reply #821 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:18:06 pm »

Not a bad 4th choice for the club to have, now let's get it right in the transfer market

Isaacsways · « **Reply #822 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:18:33 pm »

Unreal. The amount of money we waste on average players... why extend it? Spend the wages on a good defender.

Johnny B. Goode · « **Reply #823 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:19:12 pm »

A bit depressing this. We are so used to being mediocre we are now happy to pay Lovren, as average a CB as they come, 100k and we rationalise as 'oh it's just the going rate these days'.

I doubt it is, but even if it was. Lovren has had 3 years of not being good enough and for some reason gets an improved long contract. Just why?

It was the same thing with Mignolet. Those two (and that we gave them new contracts and keep starting them) say a lot about our recent failures.

Yiannis · « **Reply #824 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:20:49 pm »

So is the pressing matter that he got 100k or that he's not good enough? Former seems/is steep but wages will always keep going up and as for the latter, he's a relatively good defender who you also don't want to be a regular starter. So having him as a 3rd choice next season, it will be great.

AaronSingh25 · « **Reply #825 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:21:04 pm »

Which other club would have given him that ?

Who is making these decisions? Just dumb founded.

Eeyore · « **Reply #826 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:21:54 pm »

Quote from: Cpt_Reina on April 28, 2017, 12:13:58 pm

...we did try to replace Mignolet.

We will sign another CB this summer.

The thing is though if you get those signings right that would mean you would have Mignolet and Lovren on huge wages sitting on the bench.

Gerry Attrick · « **Reply #827 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:22:11 pm »

Quote from: Crosby Wych on April 28, 2017, 12:18:06 pm

Not a bad 4th choice for the club to have, now let's get it right in the transfer market

If you are expecting us to pay 100k a week for a 4th choice player I think you're going to be disappointed. Giving him this kind of contract signals that he's going to be at least 3rd choice, maybe even a regular starter.

Crosby Nick · « **Reply #828 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:24:35 pm »

I don't see the big deal. Granted he can be improved but if we're not selling him then we can't let his contract run down and if he's getting a new contract it's inevitable he'll get a pay rise ( we can debate whether he deserves it but it'd the way of the Football world these days).

Third choice next season is fine by me.

Cpt_Reina · « **Reply #829 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:25:55 pm »

You're all mad.

.100k a week is around about expect for even squad players these days, plenty of examples of it in many clubs up and down the division.

.Even if it is too high, its what? 20k too high? Is that really such a difference maker that its worth crying about? No.

.Sakho is on around £100k a week, will be leaving, Lovren is just taking his place as a squad option except he'll actually be around cos he's not a twat.

.We'll sign another another CB anyway this summer, so clearly theres no need to worry about Lovren nailing down a spot in the first team if you think he's shite, there'll be competition.

.What's the alternative? Let him leave and sign 2 CBs this summer and have to shell out a 100k a week wage as well as a transfer fee on top of it for someone who might not even be an improvement?

Just calm down and admit its because you dont like the lad rather than dressing it up as not making both financial and footballing sense.

Gerry Attrick · « **Reply #830 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:27:08 pm »

Quote from: Acton Nick on April 28, 2017, 12:24:35 pm

I don't see the big deal. Granted he can be improved but if we're not selling him then we can't let his contract run down and if he's getting a new contract it's inevitable he'll get a pay rise ( we can debate whether he deserves it but it'd the way of the Football world these days).

Third choice next season is fine by me.

The length of the contract is the disappointment for me, I don't understand why the club is giving out contracts that will take them well past their peak when they're unlikely to be in demand. 2 or 3 years would've been more than enough, it'd push it to the back burner for a while and give us time to improve more pressing concerns. There is no need to be giving Dejan Lovren 4 years with a potential for a 5th year on top.

El Lobo · « **Reply #831 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:28:09 pm »

This is excellent news and again, as with FSG coming up with an absolutely stunning new kit they've now tied down another important first team member to a long term contract

AaronSingh25 · « **Reply #832 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:29:43 pm »

Is this a committee decision? Is Ayre still on the board or has he officially left? Moores doesn't start till June.

Who is making these decisions?

Is it ...

El Lobo · « **Reply #833 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:31:14 pm »

Quote from: AaronSingh25 on April 28, 2017, 12:29:43 pm

Is this a committee decision or is Ayre still on the board? Moores doesn't start till June.

Who is making these decisions?

Is it ...

Whoever it is, its about time we gave them the credit they deserve Aaron. Its another important first team member tied down for their best years, no risks. Hopefully Henderson, Can, Milner and Clyne next.

Eeyore · « **Reply #834 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:31:27 pm »

Quote from: Gerry Attrick on April 28, 2017, 12:27:08 pm

The length of the contract is the disappointment for me, I don't understand why the club is giving out contracts that will take them well past their peak when they're unlikely to be in demand. 2 or 3 years would've been more than enough, it'd push it to the back burner for a while and give us time to improve more pressing concerns. There is no need to be giving Dejan Lovren 4 years with a potential for a 5th year on top.

Exactly he is 28 in July and there are huge doubts about whether he is good enough to be a first choice centre back now. Add in his fitness record and tying him down on massive wages for that long is crazy.

SwordInYourGut · « **Reply #835 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:32:37 pm »

Quote from: Cpt_Reina on April 28, 2017, 12:25:55 pm

You're all mad.

.100k a week is around about expect for even squad players these days, plenty of examples of it in many clubs up and down the division.

.Even if it is too high, its what? 20k too high? Is that really such a difference maker that its worth crying about? No.

.Sakho is on around £100k a week, will be leaving, Lovren is just taking his place as a squad option except he'll actually be around cos he's not a twat.

.We'll sign another another CB anyway this summer, so clearly theres no need to worry about Lovren nailing down a spot in the first team if you think he's shite, there'll be competition.

.What's the alternative? Let him leave and sign 2 CBs this summer and have to shell out a 100k a week wage as well as a transfer fee on top of it for someone who might not even be an improvement?

Just calm down and admit its because you dont like the lad rather than dressing it up as not making both financial and footballing sense.

No other club in the world will give Lovren £100k a week, so he would've happily accepted an extension on the same wages. Why pay £30k extra for no fucking reason? Or do you think some other club would be willing to pay Lovren £100k per week?

Eeyore · « **Reply #836 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:32:54 pm »

Quote from: Eel Lobo on April 28, 2017, 12:31:14 pm

Whoever it is, its about time we gave them the credit they deserve Aaron. Its another important first team member tied down for their best years, no risks. Hopefully Henderson, Can, Milner and Clyne next.

If he is an important first team member then why are we reportedly looking to bring in Van Dijk for £50m.

Asam · « **Reply #837 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:33:50 pm »

He's a good squad player but will never be consistent enough to be a mainstay in a team that wins titles, he looks great in a defence where there is no space behind and he can head the ball away but goes to sleep and makes stupid decisions far too often, not great one on one either

Redman0151 · « **Reply #838 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:34:02 pm »

Quote from: AaronSingh25 on April 28, 2017, 12:29:43 pm

Is this a committee decision? Is Ayre still on the board or has he officially left? Moores doesn't start till June.

Who is making these decisions?

Is it ...

He's too busy wanking into his spreadsheets

classycarra · « **Reply #839 on:** April 28, 2017, 12:34:35 pm »

Quote from: CraigDS on April 28, 2017, 10:01:39 am

Lovren added: “I am glad I will be a part of this team and this plan for the future. We are a really talented team with many special players, an amazing manager, the club is fantastic [and] the supporters are always behind us even on the bad days, which is the most important thing. I am definitely excited about the future.”

Good news. He's our only defender, outside of Sakho, who seems to want to lead and who wants the extra responsibility that comes with that. Also think the guy has great character.

I just wish I could agree with his enthusiasm about our fans. Our fans are often against the team, even on good days