Topic: Dejan Lovren

[clinical]

Whoever it is, its about time we gave them the credit they deserve Aaron. Its another important first team member tied down for their best years, no risks. Hopefully Henderson, Can, Milner and Clyne next.

No risks? What about the risk of him stepping out of the defensive line or the risk of losing his man in the box constantly.

As another poster said what other team would pay him anywhere near £100k. If anything he has it all to prove still, but now has made it financially. 

[Eeyore]

Your all mad whinging about this, its the sensible decision to extend his contract.

All season pretty much everyone has been saying we need to keep the core of the team together and build on it, yet as soon as we extend a deal people say he isn't good enough and we should sell him, trying to scapegoat who would have signed this off and if he was an important player we wouldn't be looking to bring another in. They are, yet again, trying to shoehorn their own ideas about the ownership, the structure of decision making and the management into a criticism of this decision.

We have two good centre backs now tied to the club for the next few years, the most important next step is to improve on them in the summer.

In the last accounts the wage bill was £208m for a team that finished 8th. Despite having a huge wage bill we have a thin unbalanced squad the reason why is because we are daft enough to give huge contracts to pretty average players.

When you have a huge wage bill and a dangerously high wages to turnover ratio then deals like this impact directly on your ability to bring in better players.

[Eeyore]

No risks? What about the risk of him stepping out of the defensive line or the risk of losing his man in the box constantly.

As another poster said what other team would pay him anywhere near £100k. If anything he has it all to prove still, but now has made it financially. 

Exactly.

 Dan Kennett‏ @DanKennett

Imagine being Lovren's agent and having the brass neck to suspend contract talks. Which club in Europe would come close to paying him more?

[rafathegaffa83]

How about all the individual mistakes which have directly cost us many points, vs the lack of games where he has played well enough to be the difference which has got us points.

I think part of the problem this logic is that it unfairly targets defenders and keepers. Their individual mistakes are the most glaring and obvious. They are also easy to create a correlation in terms of points lost. While some social media account has probably definitely tabulated how many points Mignolet's or Lovren's individual mistakes have cost us this season, I doubt one has created an estimate of how many points Robbie Keane's missed attempts on goal cost us in 2008/09.

[Chakan]

I think part of the problem this logic is that it unfairly targets defenders and keepers. Their individual mistakes are the most glaring and obvious. They are also easy to create a correlation in terms of points lost. While some social media account has probably definitely tabulated how many points Mignolet's or Lovren's individual mistakes have cost us this season, I doubt one has created an estimate of how many points Robbie Keane's missed attempts on goal cost us in 2008/09.

Did we extend Robbie Keane's contract or get rid of him?

[Eeyore]

I dont think he is good enough. Couldnt care less what he earns.

What he earns though impacts directly on our ability to bring in someone better.

[Fiasco]

The problem I have with this new contract and wage rise is that it is quite hard to make a case for him actually deserving it. Taking a step back and looking at this, has Lovren's form and performances in 3 years improved and been consistent enough to warrant such a contract? If you think the answer is yes then your standards for what a centre half should be for a team hoping to win honours must be really, really low.

He was a disaster in his first season, Rodgers' stubbornness (and in fairness his naïve defensive set up which exposed Lovren's flaws) cost us dearly and in fairness to him he hasn't been as consistently bad as that since. But that isn't saying much. He's had some good games and some absolute shockers, but expecting him to find some consistency going into his fourth season here next year is rather hopeful.

He's not a better defender than the one we bought. He's still reckless, poor on the ball and doesn't spot danger until it is too late. He's decent in the air, he will put his body on the line and is a passionate guy but that isn't good enough to warrant such an extension. He's been a regular feature in the defence since he arrived, the same defence that has not improved and continues to leak goals. We're on course to concede just shy of 50 goals again this season, and in previous seasons with Lovren as part of the defence we've conceded similar amounts. He isn't the problem on his own, I'm not putting the blame at his feet alone. But he isn't of the required quality to be a regular for a team with ambitions that we should have.

4th choice? I could live with that. But obviously he's going to have a bigger role to play going forward, maybe not as a guaranteed starter but he'll be up the pecking order. If, like some expect, things don't change all that much over the coming seasons then giving players like Lovren pay rises and new bumper contracts on the back of inconsistent performances and annoyingly increasing unavailability will be a big reason why.

[Eeyore]

I think part of the problem this logic is that it unfairly targets defenders and keepers. Their individual mistakes are the most glaring and obvious. They are also easy to create a correlation in terms of points lost. While some social media account has probably definitely tabulated how many points Mignolet's or Lovren's individual mistakes have cost us this season, I doubt one has created an estimate of how many points Robbie Keane's missed attempts on goal cost us in 2008/09.

Our defence is terrible though as highlighted by the weekend when Benteke could of scored four or five against us.

[Narwin Dunez]

Has he made more mistakes than most of our other players?

Dunno I've not counted. I've noticed more but I don't work for opta.

Hmmmm, yet you defend Sakho all the time..............

Yes, because he is more talented, and I believe that his attitude can be changed, and that he has been overdisciplined. I believe he will always be more talented than Dejan too.

[Tony19:6]

The fume is clearly not a money thing, or a value thing, or any of that bollocks.

People just dont like Lovren, for whatever reason. He hasn't done enough decorating around L4 on Snapchat or doesnt have enough catchphrases or whatever to make people forgive his mistakes in the same ways people will do for other players. He's got baggage and a stigma attached to him.

People are so annoyed at it because its Lovren and they dont like him, never have, never will, and can't move beyond that.

Lovren is fine. He has a lot of good games, some howlers. Worth keeping around but not worth building around.

Agree, it seems some cant move on from the Lovren v Sakho debate.

I think he's been generally solid under Klopp's guidance and it will have been the manager who recommended the extension/rise, so he must be happy with him.

[Cpt_Reina]

How about all the individual mistakes which have directly cost us many points, vs the lack of games where he has played well enough to be the difference which has got us points.

To imply people don't want him to be at the club because he doesn't post on snapchat is a bit patronising.

He's made no more or less mistakes than any of our other CBs in all honesty and he gets a hell of a lot more stick for it.

Keep seeing people content to keep Lucas around as a CB option on around 90k a week when hes distinctly worse at being a CB than Lovren.

Sakho's wage around 100k and he dropped just as many clangers, constantly got injured, constantly unprofessional and yet gets no end of support even now, never mind when he was actually turning out for us and making those mistakes.

Matip is basically given a free pass whenever he fucks up because people want to believe he's the answer.

...Lovren gets more stick than anyone in our team, bar Mignolet, and he's genuinely no worse than anyone else in his position bar (perhaps) Matip. He gets it because he was bought for a fee that was seen to be too much at the time, didnt settle very well, and its snowballed from there to the point now where people cant accept that he'd be a pretty decent rotation option and our squad would be much stronger with him in Klavan's spot than it is with Klavan there.

[Mozology]

Not a top 4 player
Makes far too many mistakes
On average you need to score more than 2 goals per game because a defence containing him concedes more than a goal per game
Does that weird charging outta the 18 yard box into no man's land, seriously what the fuck is that about?
He often panics and his sense of fear transmits itself to the crowd getting them on edge.
Has a huge ego without the talent to back it up.

By the time he finishes his LFC career he probably will have cost the club over £50m in wages and transfer fee, unbelievable.

Sorry but I think he's an horrendous defender, I can't name a single positive attribute he brings to us.

[sms1986]

Not a top 4 player

Is every player in the Chelsea, Spurs, City, Arsenal and United squads a top four player?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Decent player. Good signing.

[Lycan]

I'm not saying Lovren hasn't made costly individual mistakes for us, he clearly has. It's just sometimes those mistakes come about because of what is happening in front of him. Like when there are gaping holes in our midfield allowing the opposition to stride through with pace at ease. Which in turn causes him to panic and get dragged out of position.

[jackh]

Happy with this news.  To my eyes, Dejan Lovren's improved massively since Jurgen Klopp arrived at the club.  He is - and probably always will be - prone to the odd error, and I do think he should score more, but overall I consider him a valuable member of the team, never mind the squad.  Furthermore, I also think that for a team who - after all these years - still seem too nice, he always keeps up the fight and refuses to give up on a results.

Out of interest, how many of the other top 6/7 sides would or wouldn't posters include Lovren in the top three defenders of?

Chelsea: Luiz, Cahill, Terry/Zouma
Spurs: Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Wimmer
City: Ottamendi, Stones, Kompany
United: Smalling, Bailly, Rojo/Jones/Blind
Arsenal: Koscielny, Mertesacker, Gabriel
Everton: Williams, Funes Mori, Jagielka

Of course, worth noting that all of these sides have a different setup and approach.

[heylookitsjacob]

Not a top 4 player

What makes a top 4 player other than....being in a team that makes top 4? Genuinely curious? I mean, he's only played 20 times for us in the league this season so maybe he had to play a bigger part in the team if we do end up top 4 to get that classification?

[Johnny B. Goode]

...Lovren gets more stick than anyone in our team, bar Mignolet, and he's genuinely no worse than anyone else in his position bar (perhaps) Matip. He gets it because he was bought for a fee that was seen to be too much at the time, didnt settle very well, and its snowballed from there to the point now where people cant accept that he'd be a pretty decent rotation option and our squad would be much stronger with him in Klavan's spot than it is with Klavan there.

Quite, and that's why our defence is the reason why we might not even make top 4 anymore and fell away from the title race. That Lovren is better than what we have is no great compliment. And I think he's considerably worse than Matip.

It's not even just about individual mistakes (though I don't think he has made fewer than Joel), but also the times where he could have done better and don't classify as a howler.

Additionally, people have less patience with him because he's been here for 3 years and is still below par. New arrivals deserve more of a leeway due to their potential, whereas we have seen all there is to see about Lovren. There's nothing for us to gain from keeping him.

Even if 100k isn't that much the fact that we did decide to offer him a new and improved contract is underwhelming as an indication of our ambitions. It sends the message that delivering the kind of performances he has will earn you a place at LFC.

[QC]

At least players will see that we aren't cheap now.

[rafathegaffa83]

Our defence is terrible though as highlighted by the weekend when Benteke could of scored four or five against us.

Our defensive problems are as much collective, as they are individual. They have been for a long time too, often in the same specific areas (set-pieces) regardless of who is manager, or who is on the pitch. I think a lot of our defensive problems could be corrected, if we a) were more conservative at times, b) addressed our team-wide problem defending set-pieces and c) like Spurs and Chelsea using an actual holding midfielder once in a while.

[lgvkarlos]

 I like him but he seriously needs  improve. Don't think he should be near our first eleven on his current form.  Klopp must have faith in him so that should be good enough, but  really hope we are upgrading our first choice pair.

[heylookitsjacob]

Quite, and that's why our defence is the reason why we might not even make top 4 anymore and fell away from the title race. That Lovren is better than what we have is no great compliment. And I think he's considerably worse than Matip.

Considering Lovren only played 20 games in the league this season, I'm not sure I feel like he is to blame to us maybe not making top 4, or receiving all the credit for us making top 4.

Edit: I guess you did say "Defence." Sorry I just assumed you were talking about Lovren since we are in his thread.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Dunno I've not counted. I've noticed more but I don't work for opta.

Yes, because he is more talented, and I believe that his attitude can be changed, and that he has been overdisciplined. I believe he will always be more talented than Dejan too.

Despite making as many positional errors and poor decisions (see his latest injury as an example) and the fact we concede more goals with him.

[Cpt_Reina]

Quite, and that's why our defence is the reason why we might not even make top 4 anymore and fell away from the title race. That Lovren is better than what we have is no great compliment. And I think he's considerably worse than Matip.

It's not even just about individual mistakes (though I don't think he has made fewer than Joel), but also the times where he could have done better and don't classify as a howler.

Additionally, people have less patience with him because he's been here for 3 years and is still below par. New arrivals deserve more of a leeway due to their potential, whereas we have seen all there is to see about Lovren. There's nothing for us to gain from keeping him.

Even if 100k isn't that much the fact that we did decide to offer him a new and improved contract is underwhelming as an indication of our ambitions. It sends the message that delivering the kind of performances he has will earn you a place at LFC.

Come back to me at the end of the summer and we'll see just how much Lovren has been 'rewarded'.

Because Im willing to bet he'll be rewarded with someone being bought in for big money to compete for (take) his spot in the XI.

If that doesnt happen, you might have a point.

It will though.

[El Lobo]

I dont think he is good enough. Couldnt care less what he earns.

Meh, none of them look particularly good right now. The issue isn't an individual defender, its clearly a system which doesn't help any of them.

The manager has obviously decided he wants to use Lovren going forward, whether that's 1st choice or rotation or whatever, and we've given him a new contract to that effect. That's it for me, its a bit non-newsworthy. Bizarre how pissy people get over new player contracts these days, but I guess its a sign of the times that we need these big events for everything that happens at the club and give moaners a chance to moan some more. I don't remember there even being an announcement in the 90s if someone signed a new contract.

[lgvkarlos]

I'm not saying Lovren hasn't made costly individual mistakes for us, he clearly has. It's just sometimes those mistakes come about because of what is happening in front of him. Like when there are gaping holes in our midfield allowing the opposition to stride through with pace at ease. Which in turn causes him to panic and get dragged out of position.

Very similar to Moreno in that he seems to want to take a chance on winning the ball early, this isn't such a problem further up the pitch but to risky when there's no cover behind.

[Lycan]

Meh, none of them look particularly good right now. The issue isn't an individual defender, its clearly a system which doesn't help any of them.

The manager has obviously decided he wants to use Lovren going forward, whether that's 1st choice or rotation or whatever, and we've given him a new contract to that effect. That's it for me, its a bit non-newsworthy. Bizarre how pissy people get over new player contracts these days, but I guess its a sign of the times that we need these big events for everything that happens at the club and give moaners a chance to moan some more. I don't remember there even being an announcement in the 90s if someone signed a new contract.

Yep said this on another forum. We need to stop blaming every single goal we concede solely on the defenders. I believe It's the way we defend as a team that causes us problems at times. Our midfielders offer very little protection for them, especially on the counter. Where we've been carved wide open on numerous occasions.

[Cpt_Reina]

Yep said this on another forum. We need to stop blaming every single goal we concede solely on the defenders. I believe It's the way we defend as a team that causes us problems at times. Our midfielders offer very little protection for them, especially on the counter. Where we've been carved wide open on numerous occasions.

This is the real answer.

Playing CB for Jurgen Klopp and Brendan Rodgers is especially hard to do because so much is asked of them and so much of it run contrary to looking good as a defender.

There's a reason not a single CB has looked very good under Rodgers and Klopp, and its not all because they've all been shite all the time.

Its a thankless task to be quite honest and any CB in the world would find it harder to look great at CB under Klopp than they would for Conte or Mourinho.

The set play fume is more fair game, but still.

[Lycan]

Very similar to Moreno in that he seems to want to take a chance on winning the ball early, this isn't such a problem further up the pitch but to risky when there's no cover behind.

I don't think we'd be seeing Lovren doing that if he had a Mascherano type midfielder sat in front of him. Thing is though, we're never going to use a player like that while Klopp is still here. We'll always be a little susceptible to the counter and our defence a little exposed at times with the way he want's us to play. We're never going to have a Spur's type defensive record under him. Doesn't matter who we sign. It's just something we're going to have to get used to imo.

[Medellin]

Some real crying fuckers in here.

He has a deal because JK sees him as a part of what we are striving to achieve.
Deal with it & put a bit of faith in JK for fucks sake.

[Johnnyboy1973]

There's a reason not a single CB has looked very good under  Klopp, and its not all because they've all been shite all the time.

Is it because they're not Hummels or Subotic?

[Lycan]

This is the real answer.

Playing CB for Jurgen Klopp and Brendan Rodgers is especially hard to do because so much is asked of them and so much of it run contrary to looking good as a defender.

There's a reason not a single CB has looked very good under Rodgers and Klopp, and its not all because they've all been shite all the time.

Its a thankless task to be quite honest and any CB in the world would find it harder to look great at CB under Klopp than they would for Conte or Mourinho.

The set play fume is more fair game, but still.

Matip said as much recently. Said it was really difficult to defend in the system we play.

Like you said, the set piece situation is a different story though. It's a little embarrassing neither Rodgers or Klopp have been able to find a solution to that yet.

[tubby]

Some real crying fuckers in here.

He has a deal because JK sees him as a part of what we are striving to achieve.
Deal with it & put a bit of faith in JK for fucks sake.

Pretty much how I see it.  If anyone is to blame for Lovren signing a new contract, it's Klopp.  But people would rather blame the owners.

[rafathegaffa83]

Is it because they're not Hummels or Subotic?

More like they don't have Sven Bender, Sebastian Kehl or some other holding midfielder sitting in front of them.

[IsraeliKopite please?]

Oh god. It has to be a joke.
Klopp need new glasses for sure.

[Lycan]

David Luiz is a classic case of how much more composed a CB can look in a system when he is getting adequate protection from his midfielders in front of them.

[Giono]

Klopp values attitude, height / heading ability, and versatility. Not surprised that he is staying and that Klopp is ok to sign him to a new contract.


Besides, 100k is not a lot in these days of ridiculous finances in football.

[Lycan]

Oh god. It has to be a joke.
Klopp need new glasses for sure.

Oh ye have little understanding.

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

I don't mind the extension, as long as he's 3rd choice next season or at least competing to play alongside Matip with a new signing

[BER]

yay.

agents must absolutely love us.