Topic: The Golf Thread

[paulrazor]

Enjoyed watch butch pick his ultimate Ryder cup team this morning. Was recorded before 2018 event

Capt David Marr

Team. Casper, littler, Floyd, Nicklaus, Palmer, Trevino, kite, wadkins, Irwin, love, woods and mickelson.

Great team

If I had mine

Ballesteros, olazabal, Langer, faldo, woosnam,
montgomerie, rose, poulter, Westwood, Garcia, McIlroy and Donald.

Close to including likes of McDowell, Clarke, Harrington and Stenson.

Captain probably tony Jacklin. Few above were great captains and Paul McGinley, Sam torrance and Thomas Bjorn too.

I wouldn't mind messing around with this in spare time and pitting teams against each other

Hardest thing would be which 4 would be left out for foursomes and fourballs

[ALPH1217]

I suppose he'd have to include Woods although his Ryder Cup record is nothing to brag about - 13-17-3.

[paulrazor]

I suppose he'd have to include Woods although his Ryder Cup record is nothing to brag about - 13-17-3.

yeah and 2018 he lost all 4 matches. But I think fourth match he was in bits plus one match he was paired with reed who was shockingly bad.

Butch said what you said mate. Not a great record but kinda has to be there

He never seemed to have a great partnership. Perhaps he intimidates his own team mate more than opposition

[fowlermagic]

Must have nothing to do but had a look at the team Harmon picked before the 2018 event and think he might have to look at some of the winning records of a few of those players. Honestly anyone under 50% who has played several Cups should be no way near his side.

Team.
Casper (23.5 points winning % .62)
Littler (18 points winning % .65)
Floyd (13.5 points winning .42%).....lowest of the team and surely Watson with 10.5 points and winning % .70 should be in
Nicklaus (18.5 points winning % .66)
Palmer (23 points winning % .70)
Trevino (20 points winning % .65)
Kite (17 points winning % .59)
wadkins (21.5 points winning % .63)
Irwin (14 points winning % .70)
Love (11.5 points winning % .44) ...One of the lowest of his team and could easily have been Weiskopf (7.5 points winning %.75)
Woods  (14.5 points winning % .44).....again awful winning % and understand he is Woods but Sam Snead is not half bad either and has a record of 10.5 points and winning % .79
Mickelson. (21.5 points winning % .48)...again not sure he gets an automatic spot but has a huge record total due to him been around for 20 plus years. Sarazen could be in there somewhere with 8.5 points and .69 %.. Likewise with Ben Hogan who had 100% winning record but had very few appearances I guess due to WW2 and his car accident in 1949.

[nuts100]

Wouldn’t have FIGJAM anywhere near the best American team
Woods might make it as jack Tom etc wouldn’t be intimidated,
Nor would players file Floyd

[paulrazor]

Wouldn’t have FIGJAM anywhere near the best American team
Woods might make it as jack Tom etc wouldn’t be intimidated,
Nor would players file Floyd

someone's on the beer

Amazing thing with Floyd was he played in it 4 years after being captain

At 51 in belfry in 93 he was amazing.

Thing with that team when butch named it Tom Watson barely got a mention which was surprising

Amazing that woods has only ever been on one Ryder cup winning team

[fowlermagic]

someone's on the beer

Amazing thing with Floyd was he played in it 4 years after being captain

At 51 in belfry in 93 he was amazing.

Thing with that team when butch named it Tom Watson barely got a mention which was surprising

Amazing that woods has only ever been on one Ryder cup winning team

Dont really remember Floyd in his prime but heard he was one hell of a golfer when it came to the skins games as one v one he would win more often than not. Not seen this Butch clip on the Ryder Cup team but not to select Tom Watson, one of the greatest, perhaps the best ever links player in the team, a man who was 6 weeks shy of his 60th birthday when he missed a putt to win his 6th Open is 

It is surprising Woods has only won it once, then again there is quite a few current American golfers who only have one win to their name and 99% of them have never tasted victory in Europe  who have an undefeated home record going back 27 years. 

[paulrazor]

yeah floyd must have been some player, vague memories of end of his career

he won majors in three different decades, almost 4 because in 1990 he nearly won the masters

mentally a very strong and intimidating player

i might have missed a minute or two of it but afterwards i was kind of wondering where Tom Watson was and he had a  good record

bit odd he only played in 4 ryder cups.

I think woods in ryder cups hardly ever got a good partnership going, but a lot of those players above would pair well with him

his ryder cup record is shocking given how great a player he obviously is, by my reckoning he hasnt won any of his last 8 matches in the ryder cup

[fowlermagic]

You would think the Ryder Cup would be perfect for Woods as he loved match play esp as a younger player by winning 3 Junior US titles then winning 3 US Amateur titles in a row. That is 6 in a row by the age of 20 when he was battling against a lot more seasoned players in both junior and amateur levels. Crazy stuff. Perhaps he was a little disparaging in his earlier days about the Ryder Cup as getting a few quid to cover expenses while the PGA were banking millions infuriated some pros but its the one time a golfer plays for his country / continent and it seems to inspire them. Well it inspires the Europeans more obviously as the team spirit never really clicks with the Americans as even in their national sports like baseball, football etc there appears to be too much of an "I" in the team spirit.

[paulrazor]

Again I think who he pairs with never seems to work. He has an aura that Inspires opponents and intimidates team mates (for want of a better word)

Should be other way round

[4pool]

Short story from Raymond Floyd v Lee Trevino.

Lee was hustling in El Paso. Would bet you he could beat you with a taped up Cocs-cola bottle. Anyway some bankers bankrolled Lee v Floyd. Floyd was on the tour at the time but big money side matches were still around. ( they didn't earn the big bucks like they do now on the tour--thanks Tiger)

So Floyd flies to El Paso to take on this hot shot for 10 grand. Lee beats Raymond 65-66. Ray is pissed off so he sticks around another day for a rematch. Same stakes. Lee beats him again.

The split money Lee earned was enough to get him into some pro tournaments and the rest is history.

[fowlermagic]

Short story from Raymond Floyd v Lee Trevino.

Lee was hustling in El Paso. Would bet you he could beat you with a taped up Cocs-cola bottle. Anyway some bankers bankrolled Lee v Floyd. Floyd was on the tour at the time but big money side matches were still around. ( they didn't earn the big bucks like they do now on the tour--thanks Tiger)

So Floyd flies to El Paso to take on this hot shot for 10 grand. Lee beats Raymond 65-66. Ray is pissed off so he sticks around another day for a rematch. Same stakes. Lee beats him again.

The split money Lee earned was enough to get him into some pro tournaments and the rest is history.

I think I can add to that story as when Floyd pulled into the clubhouse driveway he was met by a valet with Mexican descent who took his keys and parked the car. I believe Floyd went for lunch before the game and was again met by the same worker helping in the restaurant. After the round of golf he wanted a rematch right there and then but was told he had to wait until the next day as the golf carts needed cleaning and to be put away and the same worker was responsible for that chore. The worker was Trevino who as you said beat Floyd twice in 24 hours.

[paulrazor]

that was something butch alluded too

said trevino would play you for 100 bucks when he only had 5 himself

[RedForeverTT]

You would think the Ryder Cup would be perfect for Woods as he loved match play esp as a younger player by winning 3 Junior US titles then winning 3 US Amateur titles in a row. That is 6 in a row by the age of 20 when he was battling against a lot more seasoned players in both junior and amateur levels. Crazy stuff. Perhaps he was a little disparaging in his earlier days about the Ryder Cup as getting a few quid to cover expenses while the PGA were banking millions infuriated some pros but its the one time a golfer plays for his country / continent and it seems to inspire them. Well it inspires the Europeans more obviously as the team spirit never really clicks with the Americans as even in their national sports like baseball, football etc there appears to be too much of an "I" in the team spirit.

Not sure about Tiger if he still has the fire for match play. He is 42 and has won everything including the Ryder Cup although in all the four balls matches I have never see him worked well with his partners. He is just not into team games.

At this moment, he is probably more interested in side betting if he goes out to play in a competition that he isn’t interested. We know Phil Mickelson does that all the time.

[nuts100]

someone's on the beer

Amazing thing with Floyd was he played in it 4 years after being captain

At 51 in belfry in 93 he was amazing.

Thing with that team when butch named it Tom Watson barely got a mention which was surprising

Amazing that woods has only ever been on one Ryder cup winning team

That NOR was supposed to be a NOT and read Not with players like Floyd. I'd take him any day of the week over FIGJAM.

Apologies - looks like fucking auto correct again got the better of me   

[arthur sarnoff]

that was something butch alluded too

said trevino would play you for 100 bucks when he only had 5 himself

Maybe stemming from what I believe is one of Trevino's own quotes "Pressure is when you play for five bucks a hole with only two in your pocket"

[4pool]

One of my favorite quotes from Lee:

It's not the arrow, it's the Indian.

When talking about those trying to buy a game with new drivers, woods, Irons, wedges, putter...whatever. He was asked about the guy where you play that buys the latest and greatest Driver, then 6 months later is buying the next greatest one on the market.

[4pool]

I play every week with an ex-head pro from a local course. He's 78. Can shoot his age.

Anyway we were talking about golf and new players to the game. He said he tells people to take lessons from a pro. He says doing that gives you a 2-3 year head start on someone else by learning the fundamentals correctly and having a decent swing. Those that buy clubs because it's a brand a pro uses and proceed to have their buddies give them a few tips will struggle for a longer time.

But most people don't want to spend the extra money on lessons.

[nuts100]

Most important clubs in your bag are wedges and your putter
Look at rory today. First 9 holes many time he was 70yards and in and was always outside brooks and rahm on the green

Guy would be so far away from anyone else if he could dial his wedge game in. He’s so talented and yet  so bloody annoying in equal measures

[fowlermagic]

Great to see the golf back last night as while it was strange not to hear the crowd it was a chance to nearly feel you are walking along with the pros and no prick is shouting Get in the hole. Some great golf out there and the odd rusty swing as well. Not too sure of the porn taches but hey if they lost a bet then so be it and Koepka & Bryson look like twins. Not too sure its all muscle either as just seen Bryson has gained nearly 50 pounds since last year. Hes got some junk in the bag I think.

On a side note when it came to the minutes silence I was very surprised to see most kept their hats on. Maybe its a bit or a lot silly but was shaking my head at Johnsons caddie who did take his hat off but put it back on and was looking at his notes half ways through the minute. Little disrespectful when they knew the whole world never mind the golf world could be looking on.

[Gerry Attrick]

I can't lie, I like DeChambeau and will him to do well. You've got to admire somebody that does something completely different to the norm to better himself, especially in a game as antiquated as golf. What's interesting is how much he's improved off the tee. One of the best drivers out there now, he is  first in driving distance on the PGA Tour. Excellent putter too. If he gets his approaches to a top 20 standard he'll be one of the absolute best.

[RedForeverTT]

One of my favorite quotes from Lee:

It's not the arrow, it's the Indian.

When talking about those trying to buy a game with new drivers, woods, Irons, wedges, putter...whatever. He was asked about the guy where you play that buys the latest and greatest Driver, then 6 months later is buying the next greatest one on the market.

I am sure Jack Nicklaus at his age using his old blades is still going to beat me hands down even if it was to played at my home course.

[RedForeverTT]

I play every week with an ex-head pro from a local course. He's 78. Can shoot his age.

Anyway we were talking about golf and new players to the game. He said he tells people to take lessons from a pro. He says doing that gives you a 2-3 year head start on someone else by learning the fundamentals correctly and having a decent swing. Those that buy clubs because it's a brand a pro uses and proceed to have their buddies give them a few tips will struggle for a longer time.

But most people don't want to spend the extra money on lessons.

I think that is where the US system is advantageous. Kids who picked up golf are normally quite well-off anyways and they continued with golf education through college scholarship system with proper coaching and regular competitive competitions.

This is something Europe could learn from the US but with golf seen as an elite sport, not sure if we have the appetite to give taxpayers funded scholarships for them.

[count_lippe]

Most important clubs in your bag are wedges and your putter
Look at rory today. First 9 holes many time he was 70yards and in and was always outside brooks and rahm on the green

Guy would be so far away from anyone else if he could dial his wedge game in. He’s so talented and yet  so bloody annoying in equal measures

I'd respectfully disagree.  For most people driving is the most important part of the game.  If you could place your tee shot 250yards down the middle of the fairway on every hole you'd end up with a better score than if you were 'given' every putt from 10'.

[RedForeverTT]

Pros are known to have different contracts for irons, drivers, wedges and putters.

Normally for putters they do not sign contracts which sort of indicate where they see as more important. Mickelson’s bag is a good indication. Callaway mostly but you could see mixed wedges on occasions and he switches putter tournament to tournament.

For mere mortals I would think the driver is more important followed closely by putter.

[Statto Red]

I'd respectfully disagree.  For most people driving is the most important part of the game.  If you could place your tee shot 250yards down the middle of the fairway on every hole you'd end up with a better score than if you were 'given' every putt from 10'.

Disagree, most important part of the game is the short game, & putting, it's all very well hitting down the middle from the tee, but how many fuck up on the short game, leaving the ball too far to putt out for a birdie or a par, i've seen many fuck up the tee but still get a birdie or at least a par, but fuck up the second shot & you're doing well to get par.

[Phil M]

I can't lie, I like DeChambeau and will him to do well. You've got to admire somebody that does something completely different to the norm to better himself, especially in a game as antiquated as golf. What's interesting is how much he's improved off the tee. One of the best drivers out there now, he is  first in driving distance on the PGA Tour. Excellent putter too. If he gets his approaches to a top 20 standard he'll be one of the absolute best.

Worth following when the season is back in full swing pardon the pun.

He's been very consistent since really breaking through.

[4pool]

I am sure Jack Nicklaus at his age using his old blades is still going to beat me hands down even if it was to played at my home course.

Didn't have time yesterday to finish.

When my Son was about 10, I took him to the Kids clinic at Colonial CC...where they are playing this weekend.

It was supposed to be Chi Chi and Peter Jacobsen doing the clinic. Peter was involved in a Shoot out, so Fuzzy Zeller filled in.

All the parents were stood  on a mound behind where the clinic was going on. Each kid got a ticket for a drawing. The winner received a full set of Dave Pelz kids clubs. Woods, irons, wedges, putter, bag and all.

Chi Chi was great. Fuzzy was funny.

Anyroad, they get to the end and draw the ticket. The kid that won goes up to get the complete set. Chi Chi talks to him a moment then grabs the set out of the kids hand. I thought the kid was going to cry.

Chi Chi hands the kids driver to Fuzzy and tells Fuzzy to hit it. Fuzzy says I don't know if i can. It looked about like a 7 iron in his hands. But Chi Chi insists, so he hits it. Fuzzy tees up the ball and swings the Persimmon Wood driver. ( this was a while ago  .. just before metal woods were coming out.) Fuzzy proceeds to hit it about 220 straight down the middle. He waggles the club and says let me hit another one. Does the same again. Fuzzy laughs and says this is going straighter than his own driver and maybe he should switch out. Chi Chi takes the driver back and hands Fuzzy a 5-iron. Once again Fuzzy hit a couple balls with the kids club and hits it about 170 yards down the middle. Fuzzy says, these are pretty good clubs. Chi Chi takes the 5-iron back, puts it back in the bag. Then tells the kid, if you practice enough you can hit the ball like Fuzzy so it's not the clubs that are the problem, as he hands the set back to the kid.

Once again proving it's not the arrow, it's the Indian...

[nuts100]

I'd respectfully disagree.  For most people driving is the most important part of the game.  If you could place your tee shot 250yards down the middle of the fairway on every hole you'd end up with a better score than if you were 'given' every putt from 10'.

I see what you are saying, I agree a little bit. For me and my mates who are all 2-6 handicappers get to scratch they’d all take a better wedge game

Personally I’d take the 10foot putt every time
I lose all my shots around the greens as I don’t practice.

Most amateurs hit the wrong shots. Course management.

There’s an old saying, drive for show, putt for dough
150 and in is where all amateurs are poor and where proper golfers take home the bacon.

If I hit a 4 iron off every tee, I’m shooting mid / 70’s all day long if my wedge game is spot on. Only time you really need a driver on any course is playing off tips.

If my wedge game and putting are all over the place, even with no driver it’s mid 80’s.

If I have a great round, my best is 69, was when every approach shot was within 10feet. Normally around 20 feet and on fast greens I’m hoping I don’t 3 putt

[Statto Red]

I see what you are saying, I agree a little bit. For me and my mates who are all 2-6 handicappers get to scratch they’d all take a better wedge game

Personally I’d take the 10foot putt every time
I lose all my shots around the greens as I don’t practice.

Most amateurs hit the wrong shots. Course management.

There’s an old saying, drive for show, putt for dough
150 and in is where all amateurs are poor and where proper golfers take home the bacon.

If I hit a 4 iron off every tee, I’m shooting mid / 70’s all day long. Only time you really need a driver on any course is playing off tips.

If I have a great round, my best is 69, was when every approach shot was within 10feet. Normally around 20 feet and on fast greens I’m hoping I don’t 3 putt

Depends on the course too, missing the fairway from the tee isn't too much of a handicap for most, if the rough isn't too deep, it's your second shot that set up the birdie or save par is the important one, was with a couple of mates last weekend, they were nailing the tee shots straight down the middle most of the time, but there short game was lacking, often leaving 10ft & longer putts, then 3 putting from chipping/pitching in around the greens.

I've seen many hitting the fairway 300 yards off the tee then fuck up the next few shots & then 3 putting

[nuts100]

Depends on the course too, missing the fairway from the tee isn't too much of a handicap for most, if the rough isn't too deep, it's your second shot that set up the birdie or save par is the important one, was with a couple of mates last weekend, they were nailing the tee shots straight down the middle most of the time, but there short game was lacking, often leaving 10ft & longer putts, then 3 putting from chipping/pitching in around the greens.

I've seen many hitting the fairway 300 yards off the tee then fuck up the next few shots & then 3 putting

Agreed, the course I play are all island greens lots of water around the greens and huge drop offs. If you aren’t dialed in, game over. Par 5s you have to hit second shot , even when cracking drive 230 over water and the greens are either narrow or not very deep and all are on plateaus. So you have to be more accurate with 2nd and third shots.

[nuts100]

Any pro out there is going to smack a top club amateur to pieces on a championship course.
I play off 6, and if I had to play for $100 a hole, even now against Lee Trevino he’s beating me by 6 and 5 even if he gives me 10 shots. I’m getting nowhere near him.

Playing against a top pro, say on winged foot off the tips and the greens running at championship speed, they could give me a shot a hole and we’d be done by the 11/12th.

They are that good. They can do more or less anything with a ball. And if you gave Rory Zach Johnson’s wedge game, and a little bit more of a backbone, the guy would be tiger good

[Lone Star Red]

Colonial is such a fun tournament. Have had my fair share of their famous margaritas while sitting under one of the big oak trees on the course and watching play.

[4pool]

Top pros have the best hand to eye coordination. That's why they hit the ball flush the vast majority of the time. That's why they wear out a spot on their clubs. It's why their short game is so good.

[paulrazor]

That NOR was supposed to be a NOT and read Not with players like Floyd. I'd take him any day of the week over FIGJAM.

Apologies - looks like fucking auto correct again got the better of me   

I had to look up figjam

Floyd and woods would be an interesting partnership alright

[Statto Red]

Top pros have the best hand to eye coordination. That's why they hit the ball flush the vast majority of the time. That's why they wear out a spot on their clubs. It's why their short game is so good.

How much of that is down to the practice the pros put in too, they'll go to the practice range for a couple of hours when they're not traveling or playing, often when they finish the round too, plus don't rush your shots too, a lot of weekend golfers play like they're on a mission & fuck up that way too, slow it down a bit & take a couple of practice swings

[blert596]

For me the biggest difference between the pros and mortals/good club amateurs is mentality.

2 over (gross) after 8 yesterday and picked up my ball on the 9th (SI 2) because I was so pissed off with myself. Thinned chip, followed by an angry duffed chip from 5 yards that went 1 yard and a bit. 4 shots and about 3 yards from the hole. Sooo pissed off I just picked the ball up and went to the next tee absolutely fewming.

Next 2 holes weren't fun before I got my head back.

I'm trying to tell myself, 2 over is brill, and a 3 yard put for bogey on SI 2 is not too bad to leave myself 3 over. I play off 15 so I should be fucking delighted. And yet the ONLY thing I can concentrate on is 2 duffed chips that cost me on that hole, and probably a shot on each of the next 2 holes.

The mentality side of it massive.

Came home and watched the resumption and watched Rahm leave an easy chip well short on the 240 yd par 3. Not a flicker. I'd have been one club less in my bag probably.

[RedForeverTT]

Didn't have time yesterday to finish.

When my Son was about 10, I took him to the Kids clinic at Colonial CC...where they are playing this weekend.

It was supposed to be Chi Chi and Peter Jacobsen doing the clinic. Peter was involved in a Shoot out, so Fuzzy Zeller filled in.

All the parents were stood  on a mound behind where the clinic was going on. Each kid got a ticket for a drawing. The winner received a full set of Dave Pelz kids clubs. Woods, irons, wedges, putter, bag and all.

Chi Chi was great. Fuzzy was funny.

Anyroad, they get to the end and draw the ticket. The kid that won goes up to get the complete set. Chi Chi talks to him a moment then grabs the set out of the kids hand. I thought the kid was going to cry.

Chi Chi hands the kids driver to Fuzzy and tells Fuzzy to hit it. Fuzzy says I don't know if i can. It looked about like a 7 iron in his hands. But Chi Chi insists, so he hits it. Fuzzy tees up the ball and swings the Persimmon Wood driver. ( this was a while ago  .. just before metal woods were coming out.) Fuzzy proceeds to hit it about 220 straight down the middle. He waggles the club and says let me hit another one. Does the same again. Fuzzy laughs and says this is going straighter than his own driver and maybe he should switch out. Chi Chi takes the driver back and hands Fuzzy a 5-iron. Once again Fuzzy hit a couple balls with the kids club and hits it about 170 yards down the middle. Fuzzy says, these are pretty good clubs. Chi Chi takes the 5-iron back, puts it back in the bag. Then tells the kid, if you practice enough you can hit the ball like Fuzzy so it's not the clubs that are the problem, as he hands the set back to the kid.

Once again proving it's not the arrow, it's the Indian...

Great story.

Bet your son must have had a great time with these legends.

[nuts100]

Colonial is such a fun tournament. Have had my fair share of their famous margaritas while sitting under one of the big oak trees on the course and watching play.

easy course to walk and see every hole

[RedForeverTT]

Justin Rose not having a good day today. Wonder if he would blame Taylor Made like he blamed Honma?

Remember it’s the Indian not the arrow