Topic: The unravelling. A team, manager and fans shafted by transfer incompetence

[LiverBirdKop]

Why?


(Don't just say lack of strikers)

LOL  Come on mate, everything is because of a lack of strikers. You should know better. 

[JackWard33]

When we had Sterling up front in the 3-4-3 we looked a lot closer to last season than at any other point, this season. We only lacked the goals compared to last season. But the pressing was there, the blitzkrieg, the mobility and the passing.

The underlying shot differential numbers were also through the roof - for a significant stretch of games we were the first or second best team in the league

[conman]

LOL  Come on mate, everything is because of a lack of strikers. You should know better.  [emoji14]

Alternatively...
Ifibehadntbeencuptiedwewouldhavewontheleage

[conman]

The underlying shot differential numbers were also through the roof - for a significant stretch of games we were the first or second best team in the league

Only when city, chelsea and man utd were stumbling.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

All Raheem has to say is "match my ambitions or I'm off". Instead, he's linking his name to money, more than it already needs be. He's risking always being associated with greed, rather than ambition and there's not a need to, unless it's true.

I don't think Rodgers would ever ask Raheem to ruin his image in order to keep himself in a job, and if he did. Well.... Let's not get into that.

This way, he addressing two issues at once (one indirect-privately and the other overtly-public).  Being associated with greed is not a difficult label to overcome --- charities, public relations releases, and the negotiation parties reframing Sterling as not greedy at all.

I am not saying Brendan asked him either.  It could be that Raheem knows how the system works now after 3 years on Merseyside and getting the council of Gerrard, Carra, Johnson, and Sturridge.  I am sure there things the four of these lads would have wished they asked for in their contract negotiations.  Sterling is still young and can afford a public relations "misstep or two" and quickly could be rebranded.

Again, this does not take any overt discussion by our gaffer.  It could be a strategy devoid of contact, but where everyone knows each others positions.

[JackWard33]

Only when city, chelsea and man utd were stumbling.

No they were extremely good by any standard

If you look at the numbers on how we played with Sterling up front in a 3-4-3 compared to any other line up this season it's not only a huge difference for us but also compared to any objective measure of good shot numbers

[L666KOP]

Well that's the other view. Rafa would always keep the shape, he wouldn't compromise everything to accommodate an injury to a key player. Rodgers baffles me with these poor choices, I don't know if it's naivety or stupidity. (no disrespect meant)

DING DING DING DING.

kEEP THE SHAPE, KEEP THE SYSTEM !!!!!!!

[Chakan]

DING DING DING DING.

kEEP THE SHAPE, KEEP THE SYSTEM !!!!!!!

SAVE THE CHEERLEADER ,  SAVE THE WORLD!

[conman]

This way, he addressing two issues at once (one indirect-privately and the other overtly-public).  Being associated with greed is not a difficult label to overcome --- charities, public relations releases, and the negotiation parties reframing Sterling as not greedy at all.

I am not saying Brendan asked him either.  It could be that Raheem knows how the system works now after 3 years on Merseyside and getting the council of Gerrard, Carra, Johnson, and Sturridge.  I am sure there things the four of these lads would have wished they asked for in their contract negotiations.  Sterling is still young and can afford a public relations "misstep or two" and quickly could be rebranded.

Again, this does not take any overt discussion by our gaffer.  It could be a strategy devoid of contact, but where everyone knows each others positions.

I get what you're saying. I still believe there's no need for him to associate his name with greed. There's no need for it. Just call the club out for lacking ambition, and that he wants to win. That would get the press on his side, and put the heat on FSG/LFC . Instead, he's putting the heat on himself from fans, media and maybe the club. It would also help alleviate the pressure from Rodgers, as it the public opinion would be swayed to believe this is a failure of ambition by FSG, rather than a concoction of other issues.

[Maggie May]

This way, he addressing two issues at once (one indirect-privately and the other overtly-public).  Being associated with greed is not a difficult label to overcome --- charities, public relations releases, and the negotiation parties reframing Sterling as not greedy at all.

I think Cashley Cole might disagree with you there.   

[L666KOP]

SAVE THE CHEERLEADER ,  SAVE THE WORLD!

 

Pet peeve of mine mate, changing systems due to injury, round pegs etc.

Decide on how we are going to play, and stick to it, injury/suspensions or not. Let everyone know what their job is, and what's expected of them.

[conman]

No they were extremely good by any standard

If you look at the numbers on how we played with Sterling up front in a 3-4-3 compared to any other line up this season it's not only a huge difference for us but also compared to any objective measure of good shot numbers

Even when we played well this season, and we did play quite well for a while, we were still far from convincing.

[Chakan]

Pet peeve of mine mate, changing systems due to injury, round pegs etc.

Decide on how we are going to play, and stick to it, injury/suspensions or not. Let everyone know what their job is, and what's expected of them.

Yup baffling why we've change bits of it to our detriment this year.

[conman]

Yup baffling why we've change bits of it to our detriment this year.

Our 5 aside is still playing the same gammy shit we've always played. We didn't change when our star(shite, unfit) player (me) fecked his back. #smartlads

[SerbianScouser]

16 games this season where we used 343 :   2.06 ppg
18 games this season where we didn`t      :   1.39 ppg

Let`s abandon good things after a first spot of trouble, that will serve us well.

[conman]

16 games this season where we used 343 :   2.06 ppg
18 games this season where we didn`t      :   1.39 ppg

Let`s abandon good things after a first spot of trouble, that will serve us well.

Mixing it up ensures our opposition won't know how we're going to play

[Gnurglan]

Mixing it up ensures our opposition won't know how we're going to play

Neither do we.

[L666KOP]

Our 5 aside is still playing the same gammy shit we've always played. We didn't change when our star(shite, unfit) player (me) fecked his back. #smartlads

You are Raheem, send me the fiver.

[conman]

Neither do we. [emoji14]

Never mind us, the team don't either

[PhaseOfPlay]

Interesting story from 2009 showing a little of who does what at Arsenal:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2009/sep/23/arsenal-premierleague

Arsenal have been keen to stress that Law will not become a traditional director of football, a role that might suggest the diminution of the manager's influence. Arsène Wenger will remain the supreme decision-maker at the club, with Law instead acting as a facilitator for the manager and Gazidis.

Simple set-up. One decision-maker, two people to talk things out, with one of them there to deal with the contracts and negotiations.

[Samie]

Mixing it up ensures our opposition won't know how we're going to play

I'd rather perfect "Plan A" than resort to "Plan B" the minute we have a bad game.

[killer-heels]

Interesting story from 2009 showing a little of who does what at Arsenal:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2009/sep/23/arsenal-premierleague

Simple set-up. One decision-maker, two people to talk things out, with one of them there to deal with the contracts and negotiations.

Maybe we have one decision maker but just several discussions?

[conman]

I'd rather perfect "Plan A" than resort to "Plan B" the minute we have a bad game.

I was just kidding

[Chakan]

I'd rather perfect "Plan A" than resort to "Plan B" the minute we have a bad game.

More like Plan Huh? and then resorting to Plan WTF?

[PhaseOfPlay]

Maybe we have one decision maker but just several discussions?

Seems more likely that we strive for consensus more than anything else.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

I get what you're saying. I still believe there's no need for him to associate his name with greed. There's no need for it. Just call the club out for lacking ambition, and that he wants to win. That would get the press on his side, and put the heat on FSG/LFC . Instead, he's putting the heat on himself from fans, media and maybe the club. It would also help alleviate the pressure from Rodgers, as it the public opinion would be swayed to believe this is a failure of ambition by FSG, rather than a concoction of other issues.

Unless there is an undercurrent amongst players in and outside of Liverpool that they want top level talent, but do not want to pay for it. 

All across the world right, labor rights-wages-union breaking measuring are punching bags for capital, but when an 20 year old up-and-coming young fellow takes on what he has in the last year, he is seen as greedy. 

We might remind ourselves what took place at Hull with the Spirit of Shankly group.  Only through changing one's reaction to power will things change.  Again, I could be wrong, but no one has been more important to Liverpool's chances this year and it just so happens he is up for contract in a couple years.  This is called leverage.  And what does he know that he did not at the beginning of the season when he said he would have happily signed?

Who was it that called for the club to tie down their stars of the future?  Yes, in the fall it was Stevie G (do not know if it was before or after his announcement he was leaving), but I would not be surprised if Stevie knew how this whole thing might end.  He's been there and done this before --- not his first state fair.

Also, by making it about money publicly, it places Rodgers in a neutral position (as we have heard him spout FSG's policy about Raheem the year before). 

Its a stretch, but it fits more with what I have been following on this saga than the simplistic sensationalism which is to paint him and punish the 20 year old with the label of a greedy fucker....

[johnny74]

Even when we played well this season, and we did play quite well for a while, we were still far from convincing.

For me the best performances of last season were those when bottom half teams came to Anfield, couldn't get the ball, chased shadows for 90 minutes and were just suffocated into submission. Lots of 3-0s and 4-0s.

I've not seen any of that. And I can see from what PoP has written that it probably is down to having those mobile strikers, especially one in particular who never stopped chasing.

[L666KOP]

Has there been any updates on the crisps meeting that Heaton was reporting ?

[killer-heels]

Seems more likely that we strive for consensus more than anything else.

Maybe. It's just all crowded in mystery in terms of who does what in the committee and how the conversations went so rather than take sides or hammer the system it's just a case of the collective lot of them doing their jobs and signing better players this summer.

Its never a good place to be as a fan to wish the season could end now so the off the field stuff can get sorted first and we can find out if we are moving on with this manager. Whole month of May to get through first.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Has there been any updates on the crisps meeting that Heaton was reporting ?

Hula Hoops are in. Walkers Sensations are out.

[Chakan]

Hula Hoops are in. Walkers Sensations are out.

Someone voted for Weathers Originals, but they told Roy to piss off outside.

[Zoomers]

Hula Hoops are in. Walkers Sensations are out.

Where did you hear this? The reason I ask this is because there are several ongoing rumors about them being homemade protein crisps done by Enrique.

[conman]

For me the best performances of last season were those when bottom half teams came to Anfield, couldn't get the ball, chased shadows for 90 minutes and were just suffocated into submission. Lots of 3-0s and 4-0s.

I've not seen any of that. And I can see from what PoP has written that it probably is down to having those mobile strikers, especially one in particular who never stopped chasing.

we do have mobile striker(s), he's just not playing them. I'm talking Borini, Aspas & Sterling as a forward come striker.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Where did you hear this? The reason I ask this is because there are several ongoing rumors about them being homemade protein crisps done by Enrique.

#ITK

Kale crisps are a possibility for next season, but Rodgers wants a more established crispened potato, like a Quaver or a Pork Scratching

[Johns_Barn]

POP the style has changed
you cant say we are as aggressive as we were last year
we have become pensive, slow,  moving side to side, with no penetration at all
year one we didn't have the personnel but I had an idea what he was trying
year two we attacked and counterattacked and ok we had suarez
year 3 we haven't used any of the principals you suggest
if last year was the zenith Hull , West Brom Villa this year has been the nadir

Hang on. Didn't PoP also complain about BR's seeming change of style when playing in Europe this season?

[PhaseOfPlay]

Hang on. Didn't PoP also complain about BR's seeming change of style when playing in Europe this season?

Not quite. I said we give up possession in those (away) games. We're not talking individual games here, we're talking about the overall season.

For example, in his first season, we quite clearly played a possession style in a 4-3-3, but against Arsenal away, we played in a 4-5-1 with Suarez out on the left wing. That doesn't mean that in 2012-13, we played a 4-5-1 with Suarez as left defensive winger

Single instances don't override the whole season.

[Zoomers]

#ITK

Kale crisps are a possibility for next season, but Rodgers wants a more established crispened potato, like a Quaver or a Pork Scratching

 

[El Lobo]

Hula Hoops are in. Walkers Sensations are out.

I'd rather we promote Brannagan(s) from the ressies 

[Red Genius]

Maybe we have one decision maker but just several discussions?

It appears, to me at least...our decision making process leans upon group consensus rather than one person ultimately taking the decision.

Collective responsibility, the issue we have is each party has a different motivation, whether it be retaining value, adhering to the brief of buying younger players on an upwards trajectory, their own footballing philosophy, PR or specific squad management....which results in a bit of a jumble sale of ideas rather than a clear footballing vision.

Its an experiment for me, that hasnt worked, we need one person ultimately responsible for setting the brief and choice, whether thats a DoF or Manager, doesnt really matter so long as the vision is dictated by one person setting the footballing concept at the club.

For what its worth, im a staunch believer the Manager should have the levers to determine this, and the manager should be selected with an overall broad concept of how the club wants its football to be played to retain continuity.

[conman]

#ITK

Kale crisps are a possibility for next season, but Rodgers wants a more established crispened potato, like a Quaver or a Pork Scratching

Not going to happen Pop, we've been over this already.

FSG won't fork out that sort of money. Rodgers doesn't have a choice either, the head scout did suggest Kale crisps, Pork scratchings and other forms of rations. Wenger nicked the pringles before we had a chance. We'll you know how it is, if you're not in early, you won't be getting the premium crisps. So they're not even on the table anymore.
You were right earlier, when you inferred that Rodgers didn't really get a say in the matter. He was told his options are Hula Hoops or Walkers sensations, which isn't much in the grand scheme of things, but they're alright I guess. He chose Hula Hoops as they might eventually deliver on their potential, he also wanted people to think a bit about em, you know, make em wonder what he's going to do.. he pondered putting two banks of 4 on his fingers and two up top on this thumbs or play a more cautious game by not really letting them out of the bag.

If i was him, i'd have held off and waited till xmas as that's when the good crisps come out again. The table would have be a plenty with them, all freely available, just waiting to be picked. We've used this strategy previously, if you remember & to great success. I don't know why he didn't chose it this year, maybe at that stage he already knew his turkey was cooked, so the timing probably wasn't right.