Topic: Negativity on RAWK

[Mr_Shane]

Ah but apart from Chelsea and maybe Southampton, no ones garden is rosy. Spurs lost and although Arsenal and Man Utd rescued a point,  I wouldn't be surprised if I were told that their fans did not look at it as a point gained , but 2 points lost after they looked at what happened yesterday and said "**** that Jammy team."

That said its probably going to be a race to see who can get their act together quickest.

[BUSHMILLS]

People really should  get in touch with their history.  I don't know what they thought happened in the days gone by when it seemed we effortlessly won all in front of us with glossy football.  We didn't.  Often it was hard slog and we played what is termed ugly football.  But we won and we stood by by our team. 

I'm in touch with our history. And I remember people having an opinion before the internet. I also remember how spoilt we were in the early 80s when we're winning everything in sight yet loads still moaned.

[stockdam]

I tend to stay away from the Uber-Fan versus moaner debates as the reality is always somewhere in the middle. I've seen people complain that Lucas and Skrtel were useless and then months later they were the best players on our team. I see people focus on the win when the whole performance stank.

Teams and players go through sticky patches and it's nice to see that we are still well within touching distance of 2nd (I think first has gone but maybe not).

For the Uber-positive fans.................you surely must see the way that many of the players and the team are not firing on all cylinders. We were very lucky to win against QPR and if we play like that week in and week out then we will be mid-table.

To the moaners, we are in the race for top four and if we can find some decent form then we'll start to climb the table.

All I'll say is that the first half of Istanbul reminds me of how we are playing now but then look what happened; the same players (almost) turned it around and we'll do it again. We are missing one of the best players in the world and nearly every team would suffer like us.

I'm not happy with the way that we are playing and conceding soft goals but we are still grinding and picking up points.

[john_mac]

I'm in touch with our history. And I remember people having an opinion before the internet. I also remember how spoilt we were in the early 80s when we're winning everything in sight yet loads still moaned.

Yes people moaned, I remember 80-81 being well off the pace until after Chrimbo, losing 3-1 to City at ome on boxing day to go 12th, 85 struggling in the bottom 4 until we won at Forest where never played well. Well and truly spoilt most of the time, but to be fair we are hardly Rochdale at the minute, 5th in the league and Real Madrid on Wednesday. I can honestly say I've never heard moaning for the sake of it and negativity to the extent you see it in here.

[BUSHMILLS]

Yes people moaned, I remember 80-81 being well off the pace until after Chrimbo, losing 3-1 to City at ome on boxing day to go 12th, 85 struggling in the bottom 4 until we won at Forest where never played well. Well and truly spoilt most of the time, but to be fair we are hardly Rochdale at the minute, 5th in the league and Real Madrid on Wednesday. I can honestly say I've never heard moaning for the sake of it and negativity to the extent you see it in here.

I remember that City game very well, John. And - as I'm sure you'll recall - Grobbelaar was crucified by large sections of the crowd.

I'm not denying that the negativity is loud and widespread at the moment. I just wonder if it would have been any different had the internet been around 30-odd years ago. It's the technology that's changed rather than people's propensity to moan.

[scumbagcollege]

Yes people moaned, I remember 80-81 being well off the pace until after Chrimbo, losing 3-1 to City at ome on boxing day to go 12th, 85 struggling in the bottom 4 until we won at Forest where never played well. Well and truly spoilt most of the time, but to be fair we are hardly Rochdale at the minute, 5th in the league and Real Madrid on Wednesday. I can honestly say I've never heard moaning for the sake of it and negativity to the extent you see it in here.

Dont take this the wrong way Johnc as I find your put downs hysterical and it is a genuine question, but why do you post on here? I mean, what do you get out of it?

[john_mac]

Dont take this the wrong way Johnc as I find your put downs hysterical and it is a genuine question, but why do you post on here? I mean, what do you get out of it?

Used to enjoy the place, was really good for all the HJC stuff we did. You still find the occasional gem, but most of it is just about the poster not about the reds, and I do enjoy taking the piss out of knobs who've never been the game but think that they know everything about it.

[ConqueredAllOfEurope]

All I'm saying is, if we are shit, what the fuck are Utd, Arsenal, Spurs and Everton?

Yes we have obvious problems with our team but so do our main competitors. 3rd and 4th places are up for grab and we are the current favourite for them.

[John C]

It's the technology that's changed rather than people's propensity to moan.

From the 2011 thread entitled "Negativity needs to stop"...

Read Mark Platt's wonderful book about our 1946/47 title winning season and that illustrates your point a bit - indeed I've often steered Fat Scouser towards it when he fumes about our support. The Liverpool match going crowd have often been doom merchants.

Edit: Although I entirely agree with the OP 

[thelinnen]

Consider me baffled then. Actually don't think the defense has changed much since last year, difference is our attack isn't anywhere near where we were, which is understandable since we're playing without Suarez and Sturridge.

Look at where our new £20m centre back is in that picture. There are huge problems in this squad right now and people should be allowed to highlight them.

That's incredibly arrogant and blinkered.

A quick flick through Liverpool's history will tell you they have played QPR 47 times, winning 33, drawing 7 and losing 7. Our away record is; won 13, drew 5 lost 6.

So, away to QPR Liverpool have a bout a 50:50 chance of winning, historically, and you reckon they should be winning all those games 2 or 3 nil?

That's not only wishful thinking not grounded in reality,  but very insulting to QPR.

I think people need to be a bit more respectful to opponents, perhaps that would greatly improve attitudes also.

QPR are turbo gash, absolutely awful in every area on the pitch and they bossed us. History has nothing to do with it. Every one of our rivals will easily do the double over them.

[CraigDS]

Look at where our new £20m centre back is in that picture. There are huge problems in this squad right now and people should be allowed to highlight them.

They are.

If you've read this thread, or just the OP even, then you'd know it's not about preventing any discussion of weaknesses we may have, but more about stopped the constant negativity and hyperbole.

[scumbagcollege]

QPR are turbo gash

You've been spending too long on G.O.T, methinks.

[thelinnen]

They are.

If you've read this thread, or just the OP even, then you'd know it's not about preventing any discussion of weaknesses we may have, but more about stopped the constant negativity and hyperbole.

I did read the OP. The suggestion was that the post match thread was negative and I think rightly so, we wouldn't have gotten away with that in the slightest against any other team in the league. I do think that some people are overly negative for some reason but yesterday the criticism was fair.

[Canuck33]

Look at where our new £20m centre back is in that picture. There are huge problems in this squad right now and people should be allowed to highlight them.
QPR are turbo gash, absolutely awful in every area on the pitch and they bossed us. History has nothing to do with it. Every one of our rivals will easily do the double over them.

Don't bother. You're barking up the wrong tree. For the super fans on here everything is "don't worry, be happy". So just support and keep your mouth shut. You know, see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. If you see someone digging the club's grave, shut up and support. They might be planting a tree, you know.

Anyway, was an impressive performance yesterday. The whole team deserves a 9 out of 10 rating, and that only because of the 2 totally unlucky goals we conceded. Else than that it would've been a smashing 10/10. Well done and well deserved.

[Anonymous5]

Watching this, I have no doubt that we will get back to this form. Not having ago at Balotelli, hes a good player in his own way, but he just doesn't suit the way we want our strikers to perform. Look at Sturridge in this game, started as a lone striker, but always on the move, ability to beat players, and a proper team player. People complain about the 4-2-3-1 formation we've been playing of late, but we played that formation in this game. People will point to the fact that it is a friendly, but you could still see the "system" working.

Things lacking at the moment from this clip:
- Confidence.
- Movement upfront. The movement of Sturridge in this clip enabled Henderson to make runs from midfield as there was space, sterling to move into little pockets and more importantly Coutinho the options to pick out runners.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/40CFHuMkDmQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/40CFHuMkDmQ</a>

[CraigDS]

I did read the OP. The suggestion was that the post match thread was negative and I think rightly so, we wouldn't have gotten away with that in the slightest against any other team in the league. I do think that some people are overly negative for some reason but yesterday the criticism was fair.

Yesterday someone said he wished we'd lost as Rodgers needs fucking off. Another said he wouldn't even wish injury on Rooney but hopes Balotelli gets injured until January then fucked off.

Yeah they are the extremes, but I stopped reading after about 2 pages and there were plenty that whilst not as bad as that were way beyond talking about a poor performance (lets not forget, we won the game).

There is no trying to stop the constructive discussion about weaknesses and issues, none what so ever, but there is (and should be) an attempt at stopping the absolute fucking horror show that are posts like the ones I've mentioned.

[Redman0151]

Yesterday someone said he wished we'd lost as Rodgers needs fucking off. Another said he wouldn't even wish injury on Rooney but hopes Balotelli gets injured until January then fucked off.

Yeah they are the extremes, but I stopped reading after about 2 pages and there were plenty that whilst not as bad as that were way beyond talking about a poor performance (lets not forget, we won the game).

There is no trying to stop the constructive discussion about weaknesses and issues, none what so ever, but there is (and should be) an attempt at stopping the absolute fucking horror show that are posts like the ones I've mentioned.

Yep, I mean take a look at that post-match QPR thread.


The game has just finished about 60 seconds ago and people's first thoughts are to go on RAWK and post "absolutely pathetic" or say how shit we are. I just don't understand that mentality or how these people get any enjoyment out of the game. Personally I was shaking/laughing/celebrating for about 10 minutes after it.

I think i'm generally quite negative/pessimistic but some of the people in that thread take the piss

[Loo Pan]

Yes we have obvious problems with our team but so do our main competitors. 3rd and 4th places are up for grab and we are the current favourite for them.

Actually, we're not with the bookies. 5th favourite to finish top 4.

[Reese]

Watching this, I have no doubt that we will get back to this form. Not having ago at Balotelli, hes a good player in his own way, but he just doesn't suit the way we want our strikers to perform. Look at Sturridge in this game, started as a lone striker, but always on the move, ability to beat players, and a proper team player. People complain about the 4-2-3-1 formation we've been playing of late, but we played that formation in this game. People will point to the fact that it is a friendly, but you could still see the "system" working.

Things lacking at the moment from this clip:
- Confidence.
- Movement upfront. The movement of Sturridge in this clip enabled Henderson to make runs from midfield as there was space, sterling to move into little pockets and more importantly Coutinho the options to pick out runners.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/40CFHuMkDmQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/40CFHuMkDmQ</a>

I totally agree that this video shows what we are capable of - and something we will get back to once the entire team sets themselves straight.

But let us also consider the main point this video demonstrates. How all the clamor and scapegoating of Balotelli and (Rodgers to a degree) is totally off the mark!

Out of that team, Sturridge is the only one missing and he has nothing to do with our slick passing around the back, midfield and wings. Yesterday against QPR, we could hardly string 3 passes together. And for as awesome as this video is, Sturridge has also been in games like that - starved of service and disconnected from the rest of the team. However, He like Balotelli plays as a pointman and is often not involved until the final play. Besides, as much as people want to deny, Mario is playing in a far more dynamic team than ever and is adjusting. Also, despite all the hate towards him, he gets into quality positions, provides quality assist chances and does put in a shift up front. He just needs to find his shooting boots and the total quality will come.

As other's have mentioned there is no concern over structured criticism and concern, but the constant scapegoating and horrific comments are baffling. 

Besides, everyone should just watch this video to not be negative.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/NKbrAU9wGqQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/NKbrAU9wGqQ</a>

[Trendisnotdestiny]

In every season, there is time to moan, a time to be silent, and a time to support and a time cry, a time to love and a time to laugh.

Turn, turn, turn



Enjoy the turns

[The 5th Benitle]

Don't bother. You're barking up the wrong tree. For the super fans on here everything is "don't worry, be happy". So just support and keep your mouth shut. You know, see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. If you see someone digging the club's grave, shut up and support. They might be planting a tree, you know.

Anyway, was an impressive performance yesterday. The whole team deserves a 9 out of 10 rating, and that only because of the 2 totally unlucky goals we conceded. Else than that it would've been a smashing 10/10. Well done and well deserved.

Hilarious.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

I am sure there is a spectrum of perspectives with much more depth, but it might be better to take a poll after games

Selection #1

Its the End of the World as We Know It

   


Selection #2
Don't Worry Be Happy




Selection #3

Turn, Turn, Turn




Liverpool FC -  We accept it all! Because Love is all you Need!

[kcbworth]

By far the best thing out of this weekend, now that the dust has settled, is our jammiest win in years was enough for us to go ahead of the Mancs

[kcbworth]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/NKbrAU9wGqQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/NKbrAU9wGqQ</a>

HOLY SHIT we were good. Wow

[skooma]

I don't personally I've hammered any negative posters as opposed to hammering negative posts that are abusive. "We were shit" may be true but of no value. But I take your point DW

Well, I personally often find my posts in LFC to be gone the next day. I'm pessimistic in general I admit. I don't recall the exact content of any individual post so I could be wrong, but I don't generally attack the team, players, or even other RAWK posters specifically and try to put some effort and reason into posts, but nevertheless still find posts missing.

[L666KOP]

Don't bother. You're barking up the wrong tree. For the super fans on here everything is "don't worry, be happy". So just support and keep your mouth shut. You know, see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. If you see someone digging the club's grave, shut up and support. They might be planting a tree, you know.

Anyway, was an impressive performance yesterday. The whole team deserves a 9 out of 10 rating, and that only because of the 2 totally unlucky goals we conceded. Else than that it would've been a smashing 10/10. Well done and well deserved.

Instead of trying to be a condescending twat, why don't you construct a post or two in the relevant threads pointing out our strengths, weaknesses, and how you'd put them right if you were Brendan ?
Not one mod has removed posts that are well thought out, and put to paper in a controlled manner. We can be as critical as we want of the players, coaching staff, and indeed the manager if we think he warrants it. I don't think the mods would delete a post that tore Brendan a new one if any one of us could offer up a decent analysis of why we thought it ? And I've seen quite often, a 'left field' post sometimes sparks the best debate.

Tell us why we're shit, tell us where we're going wrong, tell us why Balotelli/Lovren/Lambert et al are rubbish/lazy/shite, but do it in a controlled objective manner.
Then also explain that if we are so shit, how is it that had we avoided defeat at City we'd be level on points with them in second place, at worst ?

[Timbo's Goals]

Not sure why it was deleted as it's so relevant to things but here goes for those who weren't here.

As long as you continue your discussion about negativity and see a point in it, the accusation of being disrespectful will stand. No question about that whatsoever. Other than the obvious ones, of course.   

What do you think ? That I type bullshit when I get offended by seeing bullshit? I don't. I just fucking don't   

This was my way of saying that the discussion about negativity and folks getting offended by it is of the same level as me getting offended when certain people say something like that about fans like me. You may think that there is a point in it but there isn't any point in it at all or at least not any obvious point in it and when you (or I) or anyone for that matter within reason of course argue that "No there is something wrong in this, can't you see?" or "Yes there is can't you still see?" then people on the other side of the argument or for that matter even those on the same side of it think of it to be a discussion with a hollow reasoning or a subtle flaw in the logic or something akin to that and then there are the people in the middle of it all who do not feel any of these extreme emotions of giving a fuck and not giving one who try to figure out what the fuss is all about and eventually pick a side and work their assess off to prove their points which they think can contribute to the discussion and there by making a "strong" case.

This thread has gone too far with no point just like my argument of people being disrespectful to me which is already old hat.


And I never use a smiley as a decoy. Never ever.


Except once or twice.

 

[The 5th Benitle]

Not sure why it was deleted

I didn't delete it mate but I'd imagine whoever did was baffled by it - I certainly was but maybe that's just me being thick

[cowtownred]

 

Sorry Timbo (note I've used a smiley for ya), I love your posts... but like 5th, I don't quite understand this one!

[Timbo's Goals]

Sorry Timbo (note I've used a smiley for ya), I love your posts... but like 5th, I don't quite understand this one!

Fuck me C and 5thB, I couldn't spell it out any more fuckin clearly than I've already done.

Jeez. You two of all people!!

[The 5th Benitle]

Fuck me C and 5thB, I couldn't spell it out any more fuckin clearly than I've already done.

Jeez. You two of all people!!

I'm just glad that Cowtown didn't get it either, makes me feel better as he's much brighter than me!

[Roger Federer]

Don't bother. You're barking up the wrong tree. For the super fans on here everything is "don't worry, be happy". So just support and keep your mouth shut. You know, see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. If you see someone digging the club's grave, shut up and support. They might be planting a tree, you know.

I haven't seen many that are happy with the performance or think that we played well, nor have I read posts that think we shouldn't be able to discuss the problems that we have (they are evident even when we win).

But something is seriously wrong and absurd, at least to me, if you don't even celebrate a winning goal at the last second of game (as the poster you replied to didn't). If you can't put Lovren's positioning and performance aside for even a moment, and be that angry about the mistakes we make at the back, why bother watching us? Were you still thinking of the first half mistakes made by Alonso, Carragher, Traore et al, when Shevshenko missed the last penalty in Istanbul too? Yes, an extreme example of course (QPR away isn't the same as the champions league final, I get that too), but the point stands.

This was a good weekend after all. We played shite, but took the 3 points in a dramatic fashion. Arsenal and United played shite and dropped points and are behind us as a result.

[stewy17]

Look at where our new £20m centre back is in that picture. There are huge problems in this squad right now and people should be allowed to highlight them.
QPR are turbo gash, absolutely awful in every area on the pitch and they bossed us. History has nothing to do with it. Every one of our rivals will easily do the double over them.

Any insight/knowledge/opinion which you think you have has been completely and utterly negated by the use of the phrase "turbo gash".

Also, not to point out the complete obvious, but we won on saturday, barring some act of god we'll burst them at anfield and we will, much like "everyone of our rivals", probably do the double over them.

You keep at it highlighting them problems though, the way you're going you'll probably get a call from Monday night football next time Carragher or Neville throw a sickie or at the very least from Brendan for his research team. Insightful.

[Timbo's Goals]

I'm just glad that Cowtown didn't get it either, makes me feel better as he's much brighter than me!

No excuse - but if it makes you feel better 

Anyroad, I'll try precis of it 'cos I think we need to hammer the point home to everyone about this. Not trying to come across high and mighty like - as if - but there is a limit.

[Latenight Surfer]

Not sure why it was deleted as it's so relevant to things but here goes for those who weren't here.

As long as you continue your discussion about negativity and see a point in it, the accusation of being disrespectful will stand. No question about that whatsoever. Other than the obvious ones, of course.   

What do you think ? That I type bullshit when I get offended by seeing bullshit? I don't. I just fucking don't   

This was my way of saying that the discussion about negativity and folks getting offended by it is of the same level as me getting offended when certain people say something like that about fans like me. You may think that there is a point in it but there isn't any point in it at all or at least not any obvious point in it and when you (or I) or anyone for that matter within reason of course argue that "No there is something wrong in this, can't you see?" or "Yes there is can't you still see?" then people on the other side of the argument or for that matter even those on the same side of it think of it to be a discussion with a hollow reasoning or a subtle flaw in the logic or something akin to that and then there are the people in the middle of it all who do not feel any of these extreme emotions of giving a fuck and not giving one who try to figure out what the fuss is all about and eventually pick a side and work their assess off to prove their points which they think can contribute to the discussion and there by making a "strong" case.

This thread has gone too far with no point just like my argument of people being disrespectful to me which is already old hat.


And I never use a smiley as a decoy. Never ever.


Except once or twice.

 

You know what?

I've read your post just once and I could make head and fuckin tail of it. My Unlimited brain capacity simply computes it. If Picasso were here on RAWK he'd type like this.



Kolo D/Yolo B et al [and also to the fella I can make head and tail of] 

One thing that would be ridiculous would be if we were all debating [endlessly droning on as several helpful fleeting visitors have so helpfully pointed out] a sense of umbrage that had no basis whatsoever. So just to clarify, some people just go on and on about how bad we were instead of expressing themselves constructively, just so to get a response or a reaction which damages a discussion on a forum.

P.S : I never use a smiley as a decoy too.

[Timbo's Goals]

You know what?

I've read your post just once and I could make head and fuckin tail of it. My Unlimited brain capacity simply computes it. If Picasso were here on RAWK he'd type like this.



Kolo D/Yolo B et al [and also to the fella I can make head and tail of] 

One thing that would be ridiculous would be if we were all debating [endlessly droning on as several helpful fleeting visitors have so helpfully pointed out] a sense of umbrage that had no basis whatsoever. So just to clarify, some people just go on and on about how bad we were instead of expressing themselves constructively, just so to get a response or a reaction which damages a discussion on a forum.

P.S : I never use a smiley as a decoy too.

 

We have a connection!!!

[Petadroli]

Looking at those highlights from our 4-0 win against Real Madrid it is just evident how Iker Casillas is nowhere near good enough anymore. Then he was undoubtably one of the best goalkeepers and we still managed to put four goals behind him. That said I do hope he plays against us on Wednesday, he always has a mistake in him

[The 5th Benitle]

So just to clarify, some people just go on and on about how bad we were instead of expressing themselves constructively, just so to get a response or a reaction which damages a discussion on a forum.

That's about the size of it, and something we'd rather didn't happen.

[Latenight Surfer]

We have a connection!!!

[JerseyKloppite]

Don't bother. You're barking up the wrong tree. For the super fans on here everything is "don't worry, be happy". So just support and keep your mouth shut. You know, see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. If you see someone digging the club's grave, shut up and support. They might be planting a tree, you know.

Anyway, was an impressive performance yesterday. The whole team deserves a 9 out of 10 rating, and that only because of the 2 totally unlucky goals we conceded. Else than that it would've been a smashing 10/10. Well done and well deserved.

I can see you read the OP and considered it carefully. Thank you for your time.

I did read the OP. The suggestion was that the post match thread was negative and I think rightly so, we wouldn't have gotten away with that in the slightest against any other team in the league. I do think that some people are overly negative for some reason but yesterday the criticism was fair.

No, the the suggestion was that people took no joy from us winning an exciting game of football and some would rather we had lost to prove a point.