Topic: Negativity on RAWK

[Latenight Surfer]

I did, and youre still wrong.

I dont consider scraping a win to be the cause of delight. 

Am I glad it was 3 points?  Definitely, but that doesnt mean everyone should just pretend everything is fine.  If it had ended 2-2, would you still be happy?

Everyone condemns hodgson when his team scraped a dismal 4-0 vs san marino, yet if liverpool scrape a 3-2 vs qpr the reaction should be jubilation?  I expect more.

You compare an England win with a Liverpool win?

[JerseyKloppite]

I think part of the problem is that some people seem to think like we are all somehow responsible for correcting the flaws in the team, and that if we ignore them then we'll keep on playing badly. It's almost like, we're not really allowed to just be happy at a win, because there are still major problems with the team. But that's the job of the manager and the players, if they were thinking 'it doesn't matter, we won' then we'd have a problem because they's be ignoring the things that need fixing - but we should be allowed to think that, because it's not our job to improve the teams' performance.

Of course people will want to analyse and criticise various things and that's fair enough, but there's a danger of sucking all the joy out of the game if you're only happy with a perfect performance where everybody plays really well and we win easily while keeping a clean sheet. Just lighten up a bit, it's not your job to sort it all out!

When I started supporting the team in the mid 90s I couldn't have cared less how we played as long as we won and scored some decent goals. Appreciably that's not the most balanced view and it's all the more satisfying when a win comes from a really good performance (if anything because it suggests that further decent performances will follow) but I miss that side of football.

If you didn't go to the match, chances are you'd only be seeing the highlights on MOTD or keeping up with the game on Teletext/the radio and you'd be excited to see (or hear ) a win. Far fewer fully televised games, and mostly us v United, Arsenal v Chelsea etc rather than today where every single minute can be viewed by someone watching on TV or an internet stream.

[Redman0151]

I did, and youre still wrong.

I dont consider scraping a win to be the cause of delight. 

Am I glad it was 3 points?  Definitely, but that doesnt mean everyone should just pretend everything is fine.  If it had ended 2-2, would you still be happy?

Everyone condemns hodgson when his team scraped a dismal 4-0 vs san marino, yet if liverpool scrape a 3-2 vs qpr the reaction should be jubilation?  I expect more.

We won ergo my main reaction to the result is one of happiness.


Not difficult really, that doesn't mean I am ignoring our weaknesses or performance, but that isn't my primary reaction.

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

See I just think this is a bit naive.

If you're in a group of people in the pub and someone is sitting there droning on, and on, and on, moaning, negative rubbish it's impossible to 'just ignore'. You hear it because he's said it, and he won't change his opinion even if you present him with logical argument and reasoned debate. Does it matter that he won't change his opinion? No, everyone is entitled to their own. What matters is he is not remotely OPEN to changing his opinion and doesn't give two sh*ts what you say. Paul Merson said X, Adrian Chiles said Y, my opinion is Z and I won't change it for love nor money. Then debate becomes futile.

You can't ignore it either, it's there prodding your brain. Once you've read it, you've read it. I'm willing to bet if you were having a chat with a mate about a game and someone was sat next to you going on and on about how cr*p we were it would annoy you, particularly if the same guy was doing it in the same way, saying the same thing, every week.

Thing is, in the pub or at the game, what would be your next step? You would usually find better company. Would most on here tell them to fuck off, get another club, stop being a coward? Would you even try to play role model fan?  I doubt it. Actions in these places have real consequences .

People simply don't do what they can easily do and avoid all the fuss by moving on to the next post, the relative safety of this place acts as a medium for wannabes to play role model. Don't get me wrong, if there are inaccurate points of fact, interpretations of game situations etc, talk it out by all means. It's the general personal bullshit beyond that that I find laughable.

Also, I don't care if he's not remotely open to changing his opinion either. This is a personal thing, you may approach this differently. If I spot something to highlight / rebut information wise, I'll do it, then it's done; after that it's up to the audience to assess and judge who's in the right. Obviously sometimes you're going to get caught up in long exchanges, which I usually try to avoid, but for the most part, I'm not really arsed about finding any kind of consensus or even common ground. The information I've posted is there, the end.

For me, above all, the reality of this place is a bit of escapism, a bit of fun after each of us goes through whatever it is you do in your day. Sometimes good, sometimes bad, some may even be hurting. What exactly are you (generally speaking) going to achieve by haranguing anyone who may be unnecessarily negative even on football issues. It doesn't matter.

[JerseyKloppite]

I did, and youre still wrong.

I dont consider scraping a win to be the cause of delight. 

Am I glad it was 3 points?  Definitely, but that doesnt mean everyone should just pretend everything is fine.  If it had ended 2-2, would you still be happy?

Everyone condemns hodgson when his team scraped a dismal 4-0 vs san marino, yet if liverpool scrape a 3-2 vs qpr the reaction should be jubilation?  I expect more.

Your time supporting Liverpool must be pretty bleak. Other than last year and 2008/2009 I can't think of many seasons where supporting the club would have been on balance much fun for you.

Maybe you should support City or Chelsea who have the resources to make sure they can win almost every game in a style which you find acceptable.

I'll take the emotional rollercoaster and the enjoyment of winning games like these any day of the week.

For me, above all, the reality of this place is a bit of escapism, a bit of fun after each of us goes through whatever it is you do in your day. Sometimes good, sometimes bad, some may even be hurting. What exactly are you (generally speaking) going to achieve by haranguing anyone who may be unnecessarily negative even on football issues. It doesn't matter.

This is my point entirely. If people are consistently negative, I no longer find it a fun place to be. I come mainly to read posts and opinions, not broadcast my own (except in commentary threads), which is why I find it frustrating when good posts are drowned out by cr*p and good posters leave.

[Trev20]

3 points are like sex, even when it's bad, it's good.

Bad sex is not necessarily good sex.

[Latenight Surfer]

In general, the OPs right of course. Positivity is better than negativity.

BUT, today was a strange one. Stevie Gerrard was pretty negative after the match.








Or honest, depends how you view it.

If it crosses the line, report to mod.

But if it's just an opinion, ignore it...or if you can't ignore it, argue why you disagree. But don't constantly tell others how to react or think (he said, telling others how to react or think).

Did Gerrard say something like this?

Ronaldo will be licking his lips at the prospect of the next match.

That and things like that are the point of discussion in this thread. No one is defining the term "happiness" here but asking for a more construction in your argument, is it too much to ask for?

This is not a yoga therapy session mate where you are asked to be positive this is about expressing opinions with care.

[Kopite B205]

At the end of the day it's just a football forum. Granted, there is a lot of genuine fans and match goers like myself who frequent the site. However, more often than not I don't take too much notice to some of the negative posts on here. They are likely to come from immature posters, new wave fans, habitual moaners, trolls and clueless, casual fans with an armchair opinion. Take those opinions with a pinch of salt and understand that a forum like this; regardless of how heavily moderated will always contain irrelevant bile.   

[JerseyKloppite]

At the end of the day it's just a football forum. Granted, there is a lot of genuine fans and match goers like myself who frequent the site. However, more often than not I don't take too much notice to some of the negative posts on here. They are likely to come from immature posters, new wave fans, habitual moaners, trolls and clueless, casual fans with an armchair opinion. Take those opinions with a pinch of salt and understand that a forum like this; regardless of how heavily moderated will always contain irrelevant bile. 

I understand it perfectly. Doesn't mean I can't highlight it and disagree with it. Would rather say something than sit there and accept it.

[Latenight Surfer]

Bad sex is not necessarily good sex.

Good sex is not necessarily, the morally right sex.

WTF am I even talking.

[Latenight Surfer]

At the end of the day it's just a football forum. Granted, there is a lot of genuine fans and match goers like myself who frequent the site. However, more often than not I don't take too much notice to some of the negative posts on here. They are likely to come from immature posters, new wave fans, habitual moaners, trolls and clueless, casual fans with an armchair opinion. Take those opinions with a pinch of salt and understand that a forum like this; regardless of how heavily moderated will always contain irrelevant bile.

That is true mate, I agree. But, sometimes you get tired mate, that is all. 9 times out of 10 people would leave such things but what baffles most is that it is prevalent even after a win. I think the OP would not have started this thread if we lost the game, because then we'd be having no strong case.

[U13]

I enjoyed today's game but I can understand people looking at the bigger picture and being negative about that performance.

Too often on here people make well informed observations and are labelled as moaners and rounded on by a lot of users, the result of this is that when something happens which reinforces their originally valid point they take the opportunity to be smug as fuck about it. From there onwards it's a downward spiral.

[Trev20]

Good sex is not necessarily, the morally right sex.

WTF am I even talking.

 

I thought the same when I posted the above comment....

[Solomon Grundy]

can't beat a last minute goal to win a game

Just said that in the post match thread to the very same poster.

[Kopite B205]

I understand it perfectly. Doesn't mean I can't highlight it and disagree with it. Would rather say something than sit there and accept it.

I understand that mate. Don't get me wrong, I can have a moan with the best of them too. But the community is so big here that for me it doesn't represent our fan base. The 45'000 who attend Anfield and the ones who support us on the road is the the true measure for me. RAWK, like any forum as it's fair share of bellends who like to moan but don't take it to heart.

[Red_Mist]

Did Gerrard say something like this?

That and things like that are the point of discussion in this thread. No one is defining the term "happiness" here but asking for a more construction in your argument, is it too much to ask for?

This is not a yoga therapy session mate where you are asked to be positive this is about expressing opinions with care.

To be honest mate, I would read that one you quoted and it wouldn't even register, on to the next one, 0.1 seconds of my life wasted but no harm done. It was shite, so what. There's all sorts on here. How did you react to it?

[SP]

Everyone condemns hodgson when his team scraped a dismal 4-0 vs san marino, yet if liverpool scrape a 3-2 vs qpr the reaction should be jubilation?  I expect more.

If you don't enjoy a win like today what Is the point of being a fan? Sure we stunk the place out for most of the match, but if you cannot lose yourself in the moment, you are missing everything that makes being a fan worthwhile. Without it you are doomed to  an eventual joyless failure.

[Latenight Surfer]

To be honest mate, I would read that one you quoted and it wouldn't even register, on to the next one, 0.1 seconds of my life wasted but no harm done. It was shite, so what. There's all sorts on here. How did you react to it?

I was satisfied (literally jumping in the air with excitement) with the result and said to myself that a tougher test is ahead in the form of Real Madrid and that's it.

[Red_Mist]

If you don't enjoy a win like today what Is the point of being a fan? Sure we stunk the place out for most of the match, but if you cannot lose yourself in the moment, you are missing everything that makes being a fan worthwhile. Without it you are doomed to  an eventual joyless failure.

Sorry SP, but that's just rubbish mate. Very happy with the win. Enjoy it? No, i really didn't. Another day, in another mood, i might have loved it. But today, it exhausted me, blood pressure through the roof, expletives taken to a different level. Doesn't mean I'm doomed to anything.

[Red_Mist]

I was satisfied (literally jumping in the air with excitement) with the result and said to myself that a tougher test is ahead in the form of Real Madrid and that's it.

I meant his post

[Mahern]

Yo

Good sex is not necessarily, the morally right sex.

WTF am I even talking.

You wouldn't know good sex if it bit you on the bollocks, although that's probably not good :-o

[Latenight Surfer]

I meant his post

I didn't bother about it but I used it to show as an example of what exactly the OP was talking about. I can understand that everyone thinks differently I am not saying that we should all just jump with joy in the air and just type only positive things on the forum, what I am saying is that there is a good way of expressing negativity.

Criticism is not a negative thing mate the way it's being done here most of the times is. There is a difference in saying, so and so player wasn't upto the mark and saying he was shit.

[BazC]

We were awful though, no one is unhappy that we won, that'd be ludicrous. But we've just seen the team drop a load of points because of a crap defence, and it's not changing. We deserved to lose points today, but thankfully we got all 3. we won't be playing qpr every week. We're playing Real Madrid later this week. We all want to see the team progress- maintain top 4 and give a decent showing in the CL. With the way we've been playing this season it's been a massive step back from last season. Which is fine, we did just lose our most important player who happened to be one of the very best around. But the frustration is that we're seeing the same mistakes every game. I can't even remember the last time we kept a clean sheet.

If we carry on playing like this were not getting anywhere near the top 4. Thankfully, there're enough saving graces and hopes that we will get better. Our best striker has been missing for ages, we have a load of new players who still need to bed in and arguably we still havent seen our best 11 on the pitch yet.

RAWK is going to reflect the way the teams playing. Last season everyone was buzzing because we were playing the best football in a generation. This season it's riddled with mistakes, indecisiveness and the attack is nowhere near as potent.

[CHOPPER]

If you don't enjoy a win like today what Is the point of being a fan? Sure we stunk the place out for most of the match, but if you cannot lose yourself in the moment, you are missing everything that makes being a fan worthwhile. Without it you are doomed to  an eventual joyless failure.

I doubt the coach from the Arcles coming home from that debacle - and what an utter debacle it was - but a 3 point gain debacle non the less - will be using that open and care free with gay abandon approach, that you so afford that display.

The Madrid scouts will be flying back tonight thinking "this is either the greatest cover up ever in the game of football, or we're going to win 10 nil"

I know which is more likely, do you?.........

[Lord Vader]

The were some whopping comments on the first few pages of the PMT (an apt name i suppose) i saw, i could understand if we completely capitulated against a team and rolled out 3/4/5 losers but if you get so angry after a 2/3 win there is something wrong in your head.

Yes for the most we were crap, there were players who didn't shine or fit into the ethos in my view but coming out with some of the crap i saw on our manager and players after a WIN beggars belief.


I've watched us for so long i expect the last minute equaliser, i expected a 3-3 as i've become a pessimist in 20+ years of watching us play well and lose then shite and win.

I jumped up at all our goals, i muttered FFS for all of theirs.

A modicum of respect should always be given to our own meaning "the manger is a clown" should only be the response of opposing teams and trolls, "i hope he injurers himself getting on the team bus" can only be the response of a WUM or complete mentalist.

Maybe instead of imposing diktats the mods could grip these knobs by their collar and toss them out in a jazzy jeff/fresh prince stylee to the applause of the rest of the forums posters, it may even teach those who are not quite sure what level of verbosity when criticising their own, is acceptable in the long run.


 

[MolbyLovesGravlax]

Look this has been a season of being piss poor thus far. We all know that. The smart thing is to acknowledge it, and discuss what answers we, as laymen, might consider. I would also say we should show faith in the manager (who did so well last year) and show basic respect for our players. Sure you can point out flaws, but wishing injuries or the like is out of order.
What really annoys me is seeing the posters who revel in the doom and gloom. Who seem to actively want their chosen scapegoats to have shockers so they can point at their previous negative posts to show how clever they are.
I never wanted us to get Victor Moses last season. I argued against it. Yet I was desperate for him to prove me a fucking moron every time he was on the pitch. Liverpool doing well is far far more important for my mental health than how random people on an Internet forum think about my level of football knowledge.

[IgoDirk]

The main reaction to today's win should be happiness.

Good OP mate, I agree with the sentiment of it.

I was very happy with the 3 points, but my overriding emotions following the game were relief and simple astonishment at what I'd just seen.  Throughout the game, I was frustrated with the performance. We're not enjoyable to watch at the minute. I think that partly comes down to the contrast with last season (poetry in motion), and also because we're all so passionate about the team doing well.

Firstly, any Liverpool supporter is going to be happy/relieved about the result today (if not, they're not a Liverpool supporter). Most supporters are going to be concerned about the performance that preceded the result though. Naturally, these mixed emotions don't translate particularly well into an open discussion forum. Some people will come here to express their relief. Some will want to vent their frustration at the performance. Some will want to simply express delight that Liverpool have won. Some people will be drunk and just post a smiley.

I don't think there's anything you can do to curtail negativity without censoring opinion outright. I saw one comment today in the post match along the lines of "can't we just enjoy the result and then dissect the performance tomorrow?". That's fair enough (and something I personally would rather do), but you can't impose personal post match discussion preferences on everyone and maintain an open forum. If you look at the post match thread, the majority of posts initially are along the lines of "fuck me that was mental  ".

A minority of people expressed negative observations ,and then the thread seems to descend into arguments about whether it's okay to be negative or not in spite of a win. If someone wants to post a negative observation on the performance, that's fair enough to me, as long as it's worded (and reasoned) sensibly and doesn't descend into repetitively attacking the team or individual players. If it isn't then a ban should be in order. I think the illusion of people being overly negative comes from the fact that for every negative comment (which again, I felt was a minority), there's a larger number of posts that then comment about the negativity, amplifying the problem. I don't mind threads like this that separately discuss peoples opinions on the general 'vibe' of the forum.

We all share the common ground in being pleased by today's result, but in the post match thread I think you have to simply be open to the fact that people will want to discuss different aspects of the game.

[Floydy]

Many , many times on here, down the pub, sat in my mates house  I have let my emotions get the better of me regarding a bad result or poor form.  I have even been utterly ludicrously negative on here about so many things including the manager, its not that I even believed half the shit i was saying at times it was pure frustration hissy fit brattishness of the highest order.  It gets us nowhere, the outsiders love it, wathcing all the infighting between fans etc,  we revelled in it last season with Man U fans, no doubt the bitterest of rivals were sniggering at our plight during the Hodgson/ H&G era.
Stick together, as King Kenny once said "if we all stick together we are gonna have a wee bit more of a chance. " As Paisley once remarked  "the real secret of Liverpool FC  is like being in the fog but knowing you have people with you" or something along those lines.
At the end of the day we support the team no matter what, no greedy yanks , venture capitalists, roy hodgson , or poor form wont take our club away from us.
We are progressing, have a brilliant young innovative manager at the helm some fantastic players old and young. Just enjoy the ride quit the moaning on facetwat and twatter get behind the lads and manager.
We may not get 4th this season, what are you going to do support Man City instead? No you won't therefore  lets back this new regime rain or shine and see where we end up one thing is for certain  the players will achieve more both individually and collectively if they KNOW they have the   backing of the us the fans.    sorry lads and lasses for the rant, feeling rather soothed on this blowy autumn Sunday evening.

[Paragon]

A minority of people expressed negative observations ,and then the thread seems to descend into arguments about whether it's okay to be negative or not in spite of a win. If someone wants to post a negative observation on the performance, that's fair enough to me, as long as it's worded (and reasoned) sensibly and doesn't descend into repetitively attacking the team or individual players. If it isn't then a ban should be in order. I think the illusion of people being overly negative comes from the fact that for every negative comment (which again, I felt was a minority), there's a larger number of posts that then comment about the negativity, amplifying the problem. I don't mind threads like this that separately discuss peoples opinions on the general 'vibe' of the forum.

Nail, head, bang.

[lindylou100]

Well of course people are going to be negative, the performance was awful and the difference in the performances from this season compared to last is night and day. We have lost (and I'm quoting Rodgers BBC interview here) 80% of the goals we had this time last year. We haven't managed to improve defensively as a unit at all and we relied on 2 own goals to win today against a club the foot of the table. How a genuine fan can not be concerned about that is beyond me. Of course I'm going to be thinking about the bigger picture here because unlike the petrodollar clubs we need to do well in order for us to recover our status in world football financially and in terms of prestige. The performances matter.

I'm all for sticking together and backing the team & manager to turn things around but lets at least be honest in this forum about what we saw today.

[Red_Mist]

BazC and IgoDirk - good posts.

[Red_Mist]

For all the people who didn't enjoy today's performance (myself included) did you hear what old 'arry said after the game? Reckoned it was the best QPR have played this season or the whole of last. In view of that, maybe it wasn't all self-inflicted.

[Mutton Geoff]

Some people will ignore this post and just whinge underneath about fans 'defending the team/management/players at all costs' or 'blind faith'.

Some people will make stupid comments about overprotective moderation and 'stifling debate', which in reality is the complete opposite of what it's after.

Some people might read it and have a think. Who knows?

Firstly... we played badly today. I won't deny it. We were poor as a team and a few individuals had exceptionally bad games, not for the first time this season. And there may be cause for some concern.

BUT.

Going into the post-match threads at the moment is increasingly pointless. It's never been a great bastion of sense but this season it seems to have gotten worse - perhaps last season's positivity kept certain posters at bay and sufficiently cheered others up, but the whinging is back with a vengeance in 2014/2015. It reminds me of the old match threads. They were awful in the end, and have since been replaced by commentary which I think is preferable. However, it seems from time to time that people store up bile from 45 minutes and explode in a keyboard-frenzy mess at the interval and after 90 minutes are up instead. Not sure if this is any better, but I suppose at least for the sake of sanity it's a bit easier to moderate.

The main reaction to today's win should be happiness. You support a team, it wins, you should be happy. I jumped off the sofa when Coutinho scored, swore loudly when they pulled it back to 2 each and then went crazy at the end when we snatched it. Maybe people will feel a bit sheepish too, it was a win that was barely deserved (as has been acknowledged by our manager and our captain) but that happens sometimes. Snatching victory from the jaws of defeat should be savoured. I look back at those 4-3 wins over Newcastle in the 90s and wonder if people watching back then would have come away thinking "we should never have let a three goal lead slip in the first place" or "our defending was atrocious, it's not good enough" etc.

A lot of fans seem to have forgotten that football is to be enjoyed and not endured however badly we play. We scored three perfectly decent goals, this wasn't a case of a dive to win a penalty or someone punching the ball into the net deliberately. Not something where you should feel a bit embarrassed.  God knows how some people here would cope if they supported Burnley, Sunderland or some other team not competing in the top half of the table regularly. I can only suppose they would have hurled themself off a bridge by now if their expectations weren't met.

Negativity has already, rightly, also seen player threads locked and will eventually see post match and half time topics binned too IMO because people in the internet generation can't help themselves but vent their opinions, whether they are well thought out (or not), or worth sharing. The anger and depression on here seems to be the Yin to last year's Yang but it lacks perspective on a spectacular scale. Teams performing poorly need support rather than derision. Thank f*ck some of the posters here don't go to games very often. Reminds me of a guy at the Fulham away last year who was berating Toure after that comical own goal. Rightly, he got told to sit down, shut up and support the team.

This doesn't mean people shouldn't criticize poor performances, poor form or poor decisions. It's about the nature of proper debate and criticism being constructive and thought out, rather than kneejerk. Some people seem happier to have something to complain about and post far more when we're playing badly which is just bizarre. Some people have the same agendas and it stifles good writing and decent debate. Good posters have left the site recently because of abuse and negativity and they won't be the last.

These things go through fazes as the team performs better or worse, but I worry for the health of posters who seem to take greater pleasure in picking the bones of a poor performance than celebrating a win. Get. Some. Perspective. Maybe it was better when we couldn't watch every minute of every game on streams so that everyone could constantly analyse every aspect of every performance until it took all the fun out of supporting a team?

We nearly won the league last year! We're playing Real Madrid in the Champions League on Wednesday night... Cheer the f*ck up!

Spot on , some seemed annoyed that we won, i cant fathom that mentality out, now and then you get lucky, a lot of teams have been battered by us and grabbed a lucky win.

Another thing that annoys me and probably feeds this negative thinking is the lack of respect for our opponents, some believe we just turn up and these teams drop their kecks and assume the position.

There are no easy games in the prem on their day any team can beat any other, so we beat QPR but thats not good enough we have to hammer them in style for some to be happy.

Too many Arrogant fans with no sense of reality.

[The 5th Benitle]

Well of course people are going to be negative, the performance was awful and the difference in the performances from this season compared to last is night and day. We have lost (and I'm quoting Rodgers BBC interview here) 80% of the goals we had this time last year. We haven't managed to improve defensively as a unit at all and we relied on 2 own goals to win today against a club the foot of the table. How a genuine fan can not be concerned about that is beyond me. Of course I'm going to be thinking about the bigger picture here because unlike the petrodollar clubs we need to do well in order for us to recover our status in world football financially and in terms of prestige. The performances matter.

I'm all for sticking together and backing the team & manager to turn things around but lets at least be honest in this forum about what we saw today.

Did you read the OP?

[martinf]

Brill post JK...some people genuinely love to moan...remember the lyrics of YNWA....endless hope and love for our wonderful football club and how brilliant it is to be a Liverpool fan....fuck all the whiners....come on you Redmen!

[JerseyKloppite]

Nail, head, bang.

Maybe people are calling it out a lot because... it's happening a lot? I can only point to the amount of frustration and posters leaving the site as evidence that it's happening more than it used to and, IMO, too much. I'm not going to spend my time putting statistics together.

Did you read the OP?

I was thinking that A marked difference between accepting that we were poor, analysing why and debating how we could do better, and being disproportionately and unremittingly negative about it (again).

[Auxerre 03]

If you cant have a good moan whats the point ?  And no one can seriously be happy with todays performance

[JerseyKloppite]

If you cant have a good moan whats the point ?  And no one can seriously be happy with todays performance

Can they not be happy with the result, though? That's the crux of it for me. Celebrate the win, the dramatic, exciting, last gasp win, enjoy the moment.

If after you've calmed down and cleaned up your spilled pint you still want to spend your time highlighting how poor we were, go for it, it's your prerogative. But if you can't take any joy from your team winning a game, particularly like that, then maybe I don't understand the mentality of supporting a team.

[Always_A_Red]

First of all I want to say what a great OP that is. I agree that in the post match thread,  generally there are the same posters going OTT about performances and focus too negatively on individuals when there is no need.

When they equalised 1-1 on 87 mins, I was pissed off. I couldn't see us scoring again and could only see us scoring again. Coutinho bought some Brazilian to the table and we went 2-1 up. I went nuts. Against bottom of the league I reacted in the same way as I did when Gerard scored a penno last season against Fulham. By the time I had chance to focus on the game, they had a corner and I knew what was coming. 'Oh please Liverpool, just clear the ball' I told them. Ball in, deflection, shit defending, 2-2. Anger. Frustration. Absolute Infuriating. I think I swore very loud and the wife told me off. We then concede another freekick with 30 seconds to go and dread sinks in. We have seen this before - Mackie 2012 anyone? We're going to lose. We cant defend against bottom of the league. We clear, that Brazilian wizard plays the ball of the year and we win! I hit the roof. I spill my beer all over the carpet, my wife shouts at me again, I swear some more and go running around the house! We've won! Get in!

Im made up that we got 3 points. At the end of the season when the points are totalled up, nobody will remember a specific performance in October. Its all about the end goal.

That's where the happiness stopped though and thoughts of that 'end goal' start to flood through your head. We were terrible today. Absolutely terrible. Possibly the worst performance we have seen under Brendan Rodgers. Will we get top 4 if we continue to play this badly? We've had a stuttering start to the season for one reason or another. We have played 11 games this season in all competitions and there's only been one performance against Spurs that you could say was a 'good' performance. We've also only kept one clean sheet in those games despite spending over £35m in defensive positions in the summer and letting our vice captain leave. We have also lost 3 when we only lost 6 all season last year. You can understand why people would be concerned or as you put it, 'negative'. Apart from the 3 points, which are very welcome, there really isn't a lot to be singing about is there? 

For the past 3-4 games that I have been to the match, the comments I've heard has been 'Madrid in 3 weeks - they'll be shitting themselves', 'Madrid in 2 weeks, cant wait....'. Even our captain in the pre match interview today highlighted we are playing the best team in Europe in 3 days time an we have a lot to do. I think everyone's just dreading what could be a complete drumming against a team that is playing some unbelievable football at the moment. Who can blame them? We barely crawled over the line against a team odds on to get relegated but its not just this game. Ever since that game against Chelsea last season we've stalled and have been in 1st gear.

We have a lot of underlying problems that need serious focus for us to move forwards. I agree that specific targeted abuse of the manager and players is disgraceful and should never happen but lets not bury our heads and pretend that we are ok and think that when Sturridge comes back that we'll be great again because we wont. BR has a lot of work to do.

[CraigDS]

If you cant have a good moan whats the point ?  And no one can seriously be happy with todays performance

If you can't enjoy a last minute winner then what's the point?

If you want to put moaning above enjoyment then that's your prerogative, but then maybe you want to assess if you even want to watch football if it's not an enjoyable activity for you.