Author Topic: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15  (Read 250476 times)

Offline Hij

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #280 on: November 23, 2014, 05:47:10 pm »
And Arsenal gift Man United 2 points here while losing three themselves. Big swing there. Need a win today or it could look bleak for us.

Bleak it is.

:(
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Offline Hij

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #281 on: November 25, 2014, 08:40:11 pm »
Chelsea 6 // 0
Southampton 0 // 0
Man City -6 // 0
Liverpool -13 // -2
Spurs -13 // 0
Arsenal -13 // -3
Man United -13 // +2

-13 Arsenal/Liverpool/Man United/Spurs

Welcome to a four horse race for fourth (at least atm)

Par games played - Liverpool 5, Man U 2, Chelsea 5, Man City 4, Everton 2, Arsenal 3, Spurs 3, Southampton 3.

All it says is, we need to win our par 3's. Have a run of three of them coming up. Fingers crossed.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2014, 08:44:09 pm by Hij »
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Offline RooiBefok

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #282 on: November 26, 2014, 10:09:36 am »
Southampton 0 // 0
Liverpool -13 // -2

-13 Arsenal/Liverpool/Man United/Spurs

Liverpool is on -12 and Southampton on -2
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Offline Prof

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #283 on: November 26, 2014, 07:58:55 pm »



Offline farawayred

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #284 on: November 26, 2014, 08:40:43 pm »
I can't believe that these graphs show us still well in the mix!... If that's what we look like in crisis, wait for what happens afterwards.
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Offline Iska

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #285 on: November 26, 2014, 09:11:57 pm »
That's some sleight-of-hand taking the bitters out of the table.  I make them as being on -15, so also still well in the mix for fourth too.

Offline joe ®

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #286 on: November 26, 2014, 09:42:35 pm »
Haven't played to par for four games. We are sinking like a stone.

Offline rickardinho1

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #287 on: November 26, 2014, 10:20:41 pm »
Wow, in the box seat for top 4! LOL, this is insane!  ::)

Offline Deo

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #288 on: November 27, 2014, 01:31:25 am »
You guys are missing the point. This table is much more useful to gauge form. United have the best form out all those, and if we don't pick it up, we're going to finish with less than 60 points.
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Offline Packalacky

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #289 on: November 27, 2014, 10:13:44 am »
Without knowing how many "par/par3" games are remaining for each team, this table is useless.

Offline mabbympb

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #290 on: November 27, 2014, 10:29:07 am »
Without knowing how many "par/par3" games are remaining for each team, this table is useless.
:wellin

Great post!

Now read the opening message on this thread.

Offline Sudden Death Draft Loser

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #291 on: November 27, 2014, 10:46:57 am »
Wow, in the box seat for top 4! LOL, this is insane!  ::)

Really? The red line doesn't suggest so.
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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #292 on: November 27, 2014, 09:08:40 pm »
Without knowing how many "par/par3" games are remaining for each team, this table is useless.

I really wish that people who just don't understand it either clue - up or maybe sit on the sidelines while the grown - ups are talking.
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Offline Michel

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #293 on: November 28, 2014, 11:25:27 am »
Our next 11 games are all par 3s except the Man Utd away.
Even if we win all these games the best we can do is go to -10.
There is a lot of points to lose.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 11:28:20 am by Michel »

Offline drmick

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #294 on: November 28, 2014, 11:27:40 am »
Yep, it's going to be an unpleasant visual representation of our fall from grace.....

Offline Iska

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #295 on: November 28, 2014, 01:33:45 pm »
-10 will be above the 71-point line by that time, though

Offline Michel

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #296 on: November 28, 2014, 02:18:12 pm »
-10 will be above the 71-point line by that time, though

Υep i know,but it's very very unlikely that we will win our next 11 games.  :P
So we will definitely be under -12.

Offline Nessy76

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #297 on: November 28, 2014, 04:45:03 pm »
Jesus there's some misery going on here. The graph tells you where you are, not where you are going. We have our easiest run of fixtures coming up, perfect time to turn things round.
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Offline Deo

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #298 on: November 28, 2014, 04:53:33 pm »
Jesus there's some misery going on here. The graph tells you where you are, not where you are going. We have our easiest run of fixtures coming up, perfect time to turn things round.

No, it actually tells you where you are going. An easy run of fixtures is actually something that can only make you stay on the line, there's no opportunity to improve there. So if we make a mistake again, we will go down further.
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Offline Nessy76

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #299 on: November 28, 2014, 04:57:03 pm »
No, it actually tells you where you are going. An easy run of fixtures is actually something that can only make you stay on the line, there's no opportunity to improve there. So if we make a mistake again, we will go down further.

The concensus here seems to be that we should continue to decline because the line is pointing down. It's the fallacy that all trends will continue indefinitely. In actual fact, lengthy runs of poor results are pretty rare, even for mid-table sides, it's more likely to assume that at some point things will improve for us, although the timing and degree to which that will happen is obviously up for grabs.

Nothing in the APLT can tell you how you will get on in the next game, only how you should if you are aiming to win the title.
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Offline Nessy76

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #300 on: November 28, 2014, 06:46:38 pm »
This weekend's fixtures, and how they could impact the APLT.

Manchester United are at home to Hull in a straightforward Par 3 match that they would ordinarily expect to easily win. The win would keep them on -13, while a loss could see them drop to -16. At the start of the season, many predicted that the absence of European football would be of benefit to Van Gaal's squad, although so far the benefits have not been clear. With most of the top four place rivals playing in midweek, this is the sort of game where the extra freshness might be of benefit, but with the injury list at Old Trafford lengthening, the Red Devils might still struggle to put out a full team.
Visitors Hull are perilously close to the bottom three and without a win since a 2-0 victory over Crystal Palace on October 4th, although in that time they have recorded very credible away results at Anfield and the Emirates. Manager Steve Bruce returns to his old stomping ground in need of points, and will almost certainly attempt to frustrate his old club rather than get at them from the off.

United have 10 Par 1 games still to play and cannot afford to drop any more points in their Par 3 games if they want to retain 4th place in the traditional table.

Table-topping Chelsea travel to Sunderland in another Par 3 game.  The Black Cats have won only two games this season, although they have only lost one game at home, to Arsenal. Chelsea will expect to be the second visiting side to take all three points and maintain their lead of +6 at the top of the APLT.

The surprise package of the Premier League this season, Southampton, entertain last season's Champions, Manchester City in the weekend's only all-APLT clash. The Saints have arrived with a bang and are unbeaten at home, although none of the big clubs have yet visited. City will be looking to follow up on a famous night in the Champions League by reasserting themselves as a force in the Premier League, and this is likely to be a tough game for both sides.
It's Par 3 for Southampton, Par 1 for City, at least one side will drop points.

Arsenal travel to West Brom in a Par 3 game that could keep them on -13 if they win. The Baggies have just one home win to date, and Arsenal should brush them aside easily. With 9 par 1 games yet to come for Arsenal, their record of top four finishes is very much under threat now.

Liverpool, still just about in four competitions, will look to turn things around in a Par 3 home game against Stoke City whose record of 2 wins, 2 draws and 2 losses on the road so far suggests that they are remarkably consistent in their lack of consistency. (Famously, all of Stoke's home games are played midweek in the depths of winter.) A win for the reds would ensure that they remain above Arsenal, Spurs and Man United in the APLT. Anything less and cowardly waves of shrieking panic will cover the whole of RAWK in nuclear fallout, rendering it the sort of post-apocalyptic landscape of the Mad Max movies, inhabited by strange ragged old men, demented mutants and idiotic children.


Tottenham play Everton, who used to be in the APLT, but aren't any more. Roberto Martinez team will no doubt have a point to prove to the stat-botherers of RAWK, while Spurs might find that they have a tough Par 3 on their hands and could struggle to protect their -13.
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Offline Il Capitano

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #301 on: November 28, 2014, 11:41:23 pm »
The concensus here seems to be that we should continue to decline because the line is pointing down. It's the fallacy that all trends will continue indefinitely. In actual fact, lengthy runs of poor results are pretty rare

if anyone can do it, Liverpool can...

Offline McrRed

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #302 on: November 29, 2014, 09:53:54 am »
This weekend's fixtures, and how they could impact the APLT.

Manchester United are at home to Hull in a straightforward Par 3 match that they would ordinarily expect to easily win. The win would keep them on -13, while a loss could see them drop to -16. At the start of the season, many predicted that the absence of European football would be of benefit to Van Gaal's squad, although so far the benefits have not been clear. With most of the top four place rivals playing in midweek, this is the sort of game where the extra freshness might be of benefit, but with the injury list at Old Trafford lengthening, the Red Devils might still struggle to put out a full team.
Visitors Hull are perilously close to the bottom three and without a win since a 2-0 victory over Crystal Palace on October 4th, although in that time they have recorded very credible away results at Anfield and the Emirates. Manager Steve Bruce returns to his old stomping ground in need of points, and will almost certainly attempt to frustrate his old club rather than get at them from the off.

United have 10 Par 1 games still to play and cannot afford to drop any more points in their Par 3 games if they want to retain 4th place in the traditional table.

Table-topping Chelsea travel to Sunderland in another Par 3 game.  The Black Cats have won only two games this season, although they have only lost one game at home, to Arsenal. Chelsea will expect to be the second visiting side to take all three points and maintain their lead of +6 at the top of the APLT.

The surprise package of the Premier League this season, Southampton, entertain last season's Champions, Manchester City in the weekend's only all-APLT clash. The Saints have arrived with a bang and are unbeaten at home, although none of the big clubs have yet visited. City will be looking to follow up on a famous night in the Champions League by reasserting themselves as a force in the Premier League, and this is likely to be a tough game for both sides.
It's Par 3 for Southampton, Par 1 for City, at least one side will drop points.

Arsenal travel to West Brom in a Par 3 game that could keep them on -13 if they win. The Baggies have just one home win to date, and Arsenal should brush them aside easily. With 9 par 1 games yet to come for Arsenal, their record of top four finishes is very much under threat now.

Liverpool, still just about in four competitions, will look to turn things around in a Par 3 home game against Stoke City whose record of 2 wins, 2 draws and 2 losses on the road so far suggests that they are remarkably consistent in their lack of consistency. (Famously, all of Stoke's home games are played midweek in the depths of winter.) A win for the reds would ensure that they remain above Arsenal, Spurs and Man United in the APLT. Anything less and cowardly waves of shrieking panic will cover the whole of RAWK in nuclear fallout, rendering it the sort of post-apocalyptic landscape of the Mad Max movies, inhabited by strange ragged old men, demented mutants and idiotic children.


Tottenham play Everton, who used to be in the APLT, but aren't any more. Roberto Martinez team will no doubt have a point to prove to the stat-botherers of RAWK, while Spurs might find that they have a tough Par 3 on their hands and could struggle to protect their -13.
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Offline Always_A_Red

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #303 on: November 29, 2014, 11:05:43 am »
Our next 11 games are all par 3s except the Man Utd away.
Even if we win all these games the best we can do is go to -10.
There is a lot of points to lose.

Or its a sign that we have a decent run of games coming up and have a chance to make some points against the other teams. If we're on -10 at the end of that 11 game run we'd probably be 2nd or 3rd!
We’ll still finish in top four - and they won’t. You can quote me on this in May.

Offline joe ®

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #304 on: November 29, 2014, 11:38:11 am »
Quote
Anything less and cowardly waves of shrieking panic will cover the whole of RAWK in nuclear fallout, rendering it the sort of post-apocalyptic landscape of the Mad Max movies, inhabited by strange ragged old men, demented mutants and idiotic children.

So not too much difference then :D

Offline Iska

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #305 on: November 29, 2014, 12:43:39 pm »
its a sign that we have a decent run of games coming up and have a chance to make some points against the other teams
Always worth bearing in mind, this.  Our aim isn't to be doing well in the APLT, it's to be getting points in real life.  Much as I love the APLT, it's only a way of correcting for the vagaries of the fixture list 'til the actual table works itself out.

Offline Deo

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #306 on: November 29, 2014, 01:14:18 pm »
The concensus here seems to be that we should continue to decline because the line is pointing down.

No, we should decline because we're playing badly. Our downward line here is just a 'confirmation' of that.

It's the fallacy that all trends will continue indefinitely.

No one's saying Liverpool is going to get relegated to Sunday League Football in the next couple of years, which is what that sentence implies I said (straw man fallacy).

In actual fact, lengthy runs of poor results are pretty rare, even for mid-table sides, it's more likely to assume that at some point things will improve for us, although the timing and degree to which that will happen is obviously up for grabs.

If you look at some of the APTL tables of the last couple of seasons, you'll see that improvement is a very rare thing. We did it last year from the Spurs away game and on for example. But here's the thing, just staying on the line is a title-winning form, improving on the table is actually better than that.

So if we manage to slow our descent, that'll be an improvement actually.

Nothing in the APLT can tell you how you will get on in the next game, only how you should if you are aiming to win the title.

I don't think any table or stat in the world can do that. You'd be a rich man if you could predict individual games accurately.
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Offline Nessy76

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #307 on: November 29, 2014, 02:45:03 pm »
No, we should decline because we're playing badly. Our downward line here is just a 'confirmation' of that.

The line shows we have been getting poor results. It doesn't say anything about how well we are playing. It's a fair point to say that we are not playing well and if we don't get better, we won't get good results, but that's all over the forum. In here, I mainly like to post only about what is specific and particular to the APLT.

Quote
No one's saying Liverpool is going to get relegated to Sunday League Football in the next couple of years, which is what that sentence implies I said (straw man fallacy).

Your inference is the straw man here. I simply point out that trends need not continue indefinitely. Indefinitely doesn't mean forever, in any case.

Quote
If you look at some of the APTL tables of the last couple of seasons, you'll see that improvement is a very rare thing. We did it last year from the Spurs away game and on for example. But here's the thing, just staying on the line is a title-winning form, improving on the table is actually better than that.

Correct, if you define "improvement" as gaining APLT points, which as you point out is impossible in a run of Par 3 matches. It certainly doesn't follow that teams that have dropped points continue to do so at the same rate all season, which as I clearly said, was the implication I have trouble with.

Quote
So if we manage to slow our descent, that'll be an improvement actually.

I don't think any table or stat in the world can do that. You'd be a rich man if you could predict individual games accurately.

Glad we agree.
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Offline myrlas

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #308 on: December 3, 2014, 08:50:48 am »
Hopefully Round 13 is coming up soon :)
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Offline Prof

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #309 on: December 3, 2014, 07:42:06 pm »
Hi folks.  Sorry I'm a bit slow on the updates.  I haven't been 100% recently.  I'll update tomorrow for the matches tonight.

Offline McrRed

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #310 on: December 3, 2014, 10:04:31 pm »
Hi folks.  Sorry I'm a bit slow on the updates.  I haven't been 100% recently.  I'll update tomorrow for the matches tonight.
Cheers Prof. Always appreciated.

Offline Nessy76

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #311 on: December 3, 2014, 10:11:57 pm »
Southampton and Tottenham drop a point apiece on tonight's results, Chelsea, Arsenal and Man City all play to par. If Everton were still in the table, they would also have dropped a further two points with their draw to Hull.
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Offline Hij

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #312 on: December 3, 2014, 11:58:08 pm »
Southampton and Tottenham drop a point apiece on tonight's results, Chelsea, Arsenal and Man City all play to par. If Everton were still in the table, they would also have dropped a further two points with their draw to Hull.

Fucking Arsenal gifting Man U that three points has fucked us. Coulda, shoulda, woulda but even if they had got a point it would have broken up Man United's four game winning streak and have Man United only 2 or 3 ahead. As it stands they keep winning and we keep 5 points behind. Really need 3 vs Sunderland before we play them. That games shaping up to be massive, especially in terms of the 5 point swing if we can get a win.
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Offline Nessy76

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #313 on: December 4, 2014, 12:00:22 am »
Fucking Arsenal gifting Man U that three points has fucked us. Coulda, shoulda, woulda but even if they had got a point it would have broken up Man United's four game winning streak and have Man United only 2 or 3 ahead. As it stands they keep winning and we keep 5 points behind. Really need 3 vs Sunderland before we play them. That games shaping up to be massive, especially in terms of the 5 point swing if we can get a win.

In this thread, we are still above them.
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Offline MacAttack

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #314 on: December 4, 2014, 07:33:20 am »
Interesting that we're only 3 points behind where we were this time last season on the APL. Shows what a kind fixture list can do to confidence, compare the morale now to that of this time last season.

I could also deal with finishing  3 points behind last season.  ;)
« Last Edit: December 4, 2014, 07:37:37 am by MacAttack »

Offline Banquo's Ghost

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #315 on: December 4, 2014, 09:17:19 am »
Hi folks.  Sorry I'm a bit slow on the updates.  I haven't been 100% recently.  I'll update tomorrow for the matches tonight.

Sorry to hear that you haven't been well. I just wanted to post that I really appreciate all the work you do for these threads, and  say many, many thanks.
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Offline Prof

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #316 on: December 4, 2014, 07:28:53 pm »



Offline Prof

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #317 on: December 4, 2014, 07:29:38 pm »
Sorry to hear that you haven't been well. I just wanted to post that I really appreciate all the work you do for these threads, and  say many, many thanks.
:thumbup

Offline GregCharrua

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #318 on: December 4, 2014, 07:39:29 pm »
Looks like we've put staunched the flow a bit... Lots of par 3s on the table. A win at Man Utd to nick +2 would be nice, especially if its the 4th win on the trot in the PL! Thanks prof!

Offline Always_A_Red

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2014-15
« Reply #319 on: December 4, 2014, 08:27:08 pm »
Its all looking a bit tight in the APLT with any Par 1 win or Par 3 loss able to swing a teams fortune massively. It just goes to show how big a result that Stoke win was for us. A draw would have left us on -14 and pretty much screwed but that Johnson winner has given us a chance. We usually get in situations like this around March/April but every result for us, UTD, Arsenal, Spurs and Southampton to an extent are massive. Who's going to crack and who's going to take this opportunity?! As I mentioned, losing a Par 3 whilst a rival wins a par 1 will pretty much end the challenge for the losing team. Lets have a look at what the weekend could do for the APLT....

The biggest game of the weekend for me in terms of the APLT is the game between UTD & Southampton. A win for Southampton will see them cement themselves on -6 (Par 3) but will drop UTD further down to -14 increasing the deficit between the two to -8. On the flip side though, if UTD manage to make it 5 in a row and snatch a win, we could see a 5 point swing with UTD climbing to -11 and Southampton slumping to -9 with only a -2 point deficit. Its a massive game for Southampton!! Make no mistake about it, a win for UTD would be horrendous for us though. In my opinion we need Southampton to win. I'm confident that they will be out of the top 4 come January as they have a number of really tough games coming up but this isn't the game what we need them to drop points because of the team that would gain. A loss for UTD here gives us a massive chance next week to go and really hurt them and dent their chances of the top 4. Lets all pray for a Southampton win.

City play Everton at home (Par 3) and Spurs host Crystal Palace (par 3). City you would think have to (and probably will) win to have chance of trying to catch Chelsea.

Chelsea travel to Newcastle who have just hit a dip in form so Chelsea will have a great chance of winning another Par 1. This would put them on +6 in the APLT, 8 points ahead of City, even if City won their own Par 3. Hypothetically, if City slip up and Chelsea win, we could see a gap of 10 or 11 between the top 2 in the APLT and at that point I'd be going to the bookies and putting my house on Chelsea to win the title.

Arsenal take a trip to Stoke with their own Par 1 opportunity. A win for Arsenal would see them climb above Liverpool in APLT regardless of the result in our game and put them right on track for the top 4.

Liverpool play host to Sunderland with hopes of a 3rd consecutive Par 3 save. Anything but a win would be a disaster. Thankfully we seem to have found a bit of form and I hope that continues on Saturday.

It'll be interesting to see what the APLT looks like at 10pm on Monday night. It'll either look very rosy or it'll look extremely depressing. Like I said at the start, who's going to crack and who's going to grab the opportunity?! I cant wait to find out!

We’ll still finish in top four - and they won’t. You can quote me on this in May.