Topic: Liverpool's Midfield

[Hedley Lamarr]

Kessie still refusing to sign a contract at Milan, free agent in the summer and turns 25 in December.

He looks tailor made for our midfield and the PL.

Cheeky cut price bid in January?

Hasn’t he already said he wants to play for United ?  Not that theyd do anything sensible like sign a player they actually need mind.

[RedG13]

Kessie still refusing to sign a contract at Milan, free agent in the summer and turns 25 in December.

He looks tailor made for our midfield and the PL.

Cheeky cut price bid in January before he sets off for Afcon.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/c-daqupewK8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/c-daqupewK8</a>

BabuYagu said watching him vs us reminded him of Can in a bad way. I can see the interes from stats side but like Dont see a reason to block Jones
https://fbref.com/en/players/05e19d6a/Franck-Kessie

[RedSince86]

BabuYagu said watching him vs us reminded him of Can in a bad way. I can see the interes from stats side but like Dont see a reason to block Jones
https://fbref.com/en/players/05e19d6a/Franck-Kessie

Really he said that, he looks far different from Can, halfway through the video i see shades of Gini, with his shielding of the ball and ability of nicking the ball off a player, he has way better technique than Can as well who was quite limited.

[number 168]

Not saying it will be the best trio but I would like to see Naby, Fab and Thiago given a go. It could be pretty good.

[RedForeverTT]

Would hope at least one of them has some legs and pace. Shame about Harvey’s injury as he was coming along nicely.

Ox could have been perfect if we could roll back time to 3 years back.

[Jon2lfc]

I honestly believe that our best MF trio would deffo be

         Fab

Thiago     Hendo


There is no better DM than Fab.
Hendo more forward like he was in our 13/14 season is a real handful for the opposition.
And Thiago likewise.
When Hendo pushes forward, Thiago can drop back a little, and vice versa.

Can't really fault that MF when all fit.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

Who would everyone pick as their first choice 3 in midfield (assuming everyone is fit)?

Fabinho is clearly the first name on the team sheet, but the other two positions are up for grabs.  Personally, I'd like to see Thiago and Jones alongside Fab, think that's the best blend of tactical awareness, technique and control.

Agree that Fabinho is the nailed on starter in there.

I think the two ahead of him probably depends on the opposition and where players are with their fitness/form at the time of selection. 'On average' I'd probably go with Thiago and Henderson as the two in front of him. I think Jones and Elliott have huge potential and that it won't be too long before they are pushing for a first choice spot but in terms of a 'big-game' first choice I think they are still a little raw (obviously Elliott has a big injury to come back from first). Milner for me alternates between games where he looks excellent and games where his age catches up with him a little - I'm never disappointed or concerned to see him on the team-sheet but if everyone is fit and available he shouldn't be starting. AO-C and Keita both have loads of quality and are more attacking options but I think only get in a 'first choice' XI if they are in a real purple patch of form or we are trying to do something different tactically.   

[Sammy5IsAlive]

Hendo more forward like he was in our 13/14 season is a real handful for the opposition.
And Thiago likewise.
When Hendo pushes forward, Thiago can drop back a little, and vice versa.

Agree on this - the further forward Henderson is winning those 50/50 loose balls the better. For me when we are really in the rhythm and are dominating teams we have him winning it back in the final third, Fabinho winning stuff in front of the half way line and VVD dominating anything long and speculative. Thiago can then play off that defensive structure and use his quality.

[Jon2lfc]

Agree on this - the further forward Henderson is winning those 50/50 loose balls the better. For me when we are really in the rhythm and are dominating teams we have him winning it back in the final third, Fabinho winning stuff in front of the half way line and VVD dominating anything long and speculative. Thiago can then play off that defensive structure and use his quality.

Love this elaboration of yours.

[rushyman]

When’s Thiago back

[johnj147]

we need to strenghthen .

[Coolie High]

Thiago and Fabinho are the clear two standouts, especially as a partnership. The third midfielder could be whoever really although I’m taking a liking to Jones in a more advance midfield position.

[RedG13]

Really he said that, he looks far different from Can, halfway through the video i see shades of Gini, with his shielding of the ball and ability of nicking the ball off a player, he has way better technique than Can as well who was quite limited.

I think it was more the part where he ball focused guy. I wont complain about another mf but really dont think it a need at all with all the options. They need to somebody replace Mane more then anything in future windows. Possible replacement also for Ox who also one year left but I lean to Keita getting resigned

[Lastrador]

Absence makes the heart grow fonder I guess, but I don't know why Thiago is such a sure first choice for everyone. I was incredibly excited about us getting him and I find him a marvellous footballer, but his performance for us (so far), hasn't really made me extremely confident that he fits our midield, at all. I probably would still have him as a first choice, because I find the ceiling of this team with him firing at all cylinders is higher than with any other option, and because I love to watch the guy play, but based on past performance, I don't think you can really make a resounding case for him starting ahead of all the other options. I do hope I'm wrong, but the thought of Veron at United has crossed my mind at times with Thiago. A sublime footballer that doesn't have the physicality and durability for this league, and doesn't have a clear role in this team.

[harleydanger]

we need to strenghthen .

 Not sure if serious…..

[farawayred]

Absence makes the heart grow fonder I guess, but I don't know why Thiago is such a sure first choice for everyone. I was incredibly excited about us getting him and I find him a marvellous footballer, but his performance for us (so far), hasn't really made me extremely confident that he fits our midield, at all. I probably would still have him as a first choice, because I find the ceiling of this team with him firing at all cylinders is higher than with any other option, and because I love to watch the guy play, but based on past performance, I don't think you can really make a resounding case for him starting ahead of all the other options. I do hope I'm wrong, but the thought of Veron at United has crossed my mind at times with Thiago. A sublime footballer that doesn't have the physicality and durability for this league, and doesn't have a clear role in this team.

Dunno if an objective argument can be formed. But for me, he's the second name in MF after Fab; his vision and vertical passes are enough. Without him we seem short on ideas how to break a resolute defense, we just go around and around.

[Dave McCoy]

I think it's interesting in that we clearly started the season where the furthest midfielder was more of a pressing mid/forward hybrid in Harvey.  If he was still healthy would we still be doing that?  I kind of think so which means you're really only ever playing with two true midfielders.  I kind of question how Jones would ever fit in there and even Thiago to a certain extent, the amount of passing would be off the charts but I don't think we'd be all that hard to play through. Hopefully it won't be too long before we find out.  Will be interesting at least and yes would make for some recruitment discussions if that holds.

But as far as the here and now, I don't know really what qualms there is to have.  Keita was too lightweight today?  I guess but if anybody is expecting him to be anything but "fine" at this point in an LFC shirt when the odds are he'd be in the treatment room otherwise is kind of loopy.  Hendo was just extended and is the captain.  I think he's lost a step but he's not going anywhere.  Milner will be done next year but maybe Ox moves on?  I mean the majority are going to be here next year with maybe one addition at best and even that isn't a guarantee depending on how the club view Jones.  It kind of is what it is under Klopp for as long as he's going to be here now and that seems to be the point.  There isn't going to be some large turnover until he's gone.

[jepovic]

The midfield looks a bit incoherent, especially in defense. I'm not so sure if it's due to a lack of quality or the constant changes due to injuries. Henderson looks a bit off for sure.

But overall we have done well considering all the injuries. One point behind Chelsea in the league, way ahead in the CL group. We're not as good as a couple of years ago right now, but far better than last season.

[Funky_Gibbons]

The AC Milan and Madrid games have shown us what happens when there is a disconnect between the midfield and defence. We've left too many big spaces in both those games and we've not put in the hard work defensively to get back behind the ball or close down players.

 

[Fromola]

The AC Milan and Madrid games have shown us what happens when there is a disconnect between the midfield and defence. We've left too many big spaces in both those games and we've not put in the hard work defensively to get back behind the ball or close down players.

In the context of last night we were playing the same three from Saturday, Hendo still not on his game after the injury, Milner 36 and Keita playing three games for Guinea and the full game at Watford.

Given the defence and front three were unchanged also, no Fabinho in the line up, Atleti fully rested and bang up for a big CL night back with fans and it's some mitigation for being short of legs in there last night.

We need more pace and power in there though. Too often the three picked are slow.

[FowlerLegend]

Absence makes the heart grow fonder I guess, but I don't know why Thiago is such a sure first choice for everyone. I was incredibly excited about us getting him and I find him a marvellous footballer, but his performance for us (so far), hasn't really made me extremely confident that he fits our midield, at all. I probably would still have him as a first choice, because I find the ceiling of this team with him firing at all cylinders is higher than with any other option, and because I love to watch the guy play, but based on past performance, I don't think you can really make a resounding case for him starting ahead of all the other options. I do hope I'm wrong, but the thought of Veron at United has crossed my mind at times with Thiago. A sublime footballer that doesn't have the physicality and durability for this league, and doesn't have a clear role in this team.

I think the balance in the midfield isn't right. I don't think any of our midfield options across the entire squad have very good recovery pace (including Fabinho) and so if a team beats our press the gaps can end up looking huge - especially on a big pitch.
It reminds me a lot of when Xabi Alonso was first here and teams ran through us because he had no pace. As soon as Mascherano arrived though, who had it to burn, he was able to focus on things he was good at and he and the team went up another level.
I think the same would happen to Naby and Thiago if we brought in a player with that pace. They just don't have it in their physical attributes to do that so you need to compliment them with players that do and let them focus on what they are good at.
Against most teams we will get away with it but hopefully it's something they will rectify come the summer.

[Nick110581]

It’s game management for me from the midfield and that’s where Gini can be missed.

No idea why the midfield didn’t get tighter at 2-0 up.

[Funky_Gibbons]

In the context of last night we were playing the same three from Saturday, Hendo still not on his game after the injury, Milner 36 and Keita playing three games for Guinea and the full game at Watford.

Given the defence and front three were unchanged also, no Fabinho in the line up, Atleti fully rested and bang up for a big CL night back with fans and it's some mitigation for being short of legs in there last night.

We need more pace and power in there though. Too often the three picked are slow.

The three who played last night was almost out of neccesity. Klopp said before the Watford game that everyone had been away on international duty and he only had one training session with them before travelling for the game. Straight after that we've had to fly to Spain for this game where Fabonho had been waiting for us without any training. It made sense to keep with the same three who had played together a few days earlier.

I'm not sure I buy into the 'pace and power' idea either. The biggest issue for me last night was tactical discipline which we also saw against AC Milan. If midfielders aren't doing their defensive work it leaves big gaps that quality sides will exploit.   

[Knight]

I think the balance in the midfield isn't right. I don't think any of our midfield options across the entire squad have very good recovery pace (including Fabinho) and so if a team beats our press the gaps can end up looking huge - especially on a big pitch.
It reminds me a lot of when Xabi Alonso was first here and teams ran through us because he had no pace. As soon as Mascherano arrived though, who had it to burn, he was able to focus on things he was good at and he and the team went up another level.
I think the same would happen to Naby and Thiago if we brought in a player with that pace. They just don't have it in their physical attributes to do that so you need to compliment them with players that do and let them focus on what they are good at.
Against most teams we will get away with it but hopefully it's something they will rectify come the summer.

We’ve got a midfield full of slow and/or increasingly old players. Sometimes this season against better teams that’s been evident. We’ve also got Elliot and Jones, who are neither slow nor old arriving as the next generation but injuries to them have obviously been problematic. I think Henderson at 8 is an increasing issue too. But basically we spent a bunch of money in that position so that we wouldn’t need to play Henderson and Milner in the same midfield very often anymore and at the moment, injuries have forced us into it. Not surprising we’re looking a bit ropey.

[decosabute]

Henderson has hardly played well this season, bar the games where he is a 6.

Henderson hasn't had his greatest season, but there's been a serous amount of upheaval - he was pushed to the left early in the season to accommodate Elliot, which he's clearly not used to, and was a mistake in my opinion. Since then there have been a lot of injuries and absences in midfield and it's been non stop changing. Henderson also has heaps of credit in the bank, and I think most would agree he'll come good when the midfield settles a little.

Can't believe the easy ride Keita is getting though. Even if we put his poor availability of the last two seasons to one side (and it's not even the problem this season), there's just too much evidence that he's a liability in big games. I will never understand why so much of the fanbase are desperate not to criticise him - there's almost a feeling from some that he still needs to adapt and find his feet, when he's in his fourth season here. He was a huge part of the problem late in the first half vs AC Milan, he was a huge part of the problem from 25-45 last night. Joao Felix is a very good player, but Keita allowed him through so easily. Keita doesn't lack technical quality or even intelligence, but in my opinion he doesn't have he pace, the physique or the intensity required to play in a midfield for us against quality opposition. The manager has given him chance after chance, but he was subbed off on 35 minutes the previous time we went to Madrid and at half time last night. It speaks volumes and I'd be surprised if the manager trusted him in a big game again, unless injuries absolutely force his hand. A fine bench option, and good for rotation to come in against the middling and lower PL opposition, but nothing more than that.

To answer the question from earlier, the best midfield we have when everyone is available is Fabinho, Henderson, Thiago, and it's not even close. Jones next in line and Milner after that.

[FowlerLegend]

We’ve got a midfield full of slow and/or increasingly old players. Sometimes this season against better teams that’s been evident. We’ve also got Elliot and Jones, who are neither slow nor old arriving as the next generation but injuries to them have obviously been problematic. I think Henderson at 8 is an increasing issue too. But basically we spent a bunch of money in that position so that we wouldn’t need to play Henderson and Milner in the same midfield very often anymore and at the moment, injuries have forced us into it. Not surprising we’re looking a bit ropey.

I agree with the reasons that we look ropey but I don't think Elliott and Jones are the answers to those issues. Jones and Elliott are both offensive players and I don't see them improving the defensive sides of our game.
Part of it is having the pace over the first few yards, which both of these players have, and the second is having the defensive "skillset/mindset" to use it. I don't see that suiting either of those two. Doesn't mean they cannot be great players for us but just that won't be their role in the team to do that.
Take the City game where Silva ran through the midfield to setup the chance for Foden in the first half, the midfield were sluggish over the first few yards and we were opened up. Same thing happened for De Bruyne goal, we were sluggish in the touchline, they get through the press and then they have men over and defence is exposed.
For me it is an issue against the better teams but hopefully we can sti have enough of the balance of play to eek out results

[jepovic]

We’ve got a midfield full of slow and/or increasingly old players. Sometimes this season against better teams that’s been evident. We’ve also got Elliot and Jones, who are neither slow nor old arriving as the next generation but injuries to them have obviously been problematic. I think Henderson at 8 is an increasing issue too. But basically we spent a bunch of money in that position so that we wouldn’t need to play Henderson and Milner in the same midfield very often anymore and at the moment, injuries have forced us into it. Not surprising we’re looking a bit ropey.

I don't think it's so much about pace. Keita isn't slow, in fact he's very quick the first few yards, but he gets outsmarted too often. Fabinho on the other hand outsmarts almost everyone.

[Dree]

I think Naby was slightly unfortunate to be playing on the right of a three with Henderson and Milner having to help out both Salah and Trent which is less his game. I think there is a problem in that Gini’s consistency hasn’t been replaced. Thiago helps with keeping possession but won’t play 50 games.
Without the control Henderson and Milner will struggle with their age in this type of game.

[Ghost Town]

Can't believe the easy ride Keita is getting though. Even if we put his poor availability of the last two seasons to one side (and it's not even the problem this season), there's just too much evidence that he's a liability in big games. I will never understand why so much of the fanbase are desperate not to criticise him

Why yes indeed, more slagging off of Liverpool players by Liverpool fans is exactly what is needed, to really show how truly classy we are.

The manager has given him chance after chance, but he was subbed off on 35 minutes the previous time we went to Madrid and at half time last night. It speaks volumes and I'd be surprised if the manager trusted him in a big game again, unless injuries absolutely force his hand.

It may speak volumes to you, but they're not volumes that Klopp will agree with, being as he made a specific point in his after match presser to exonerate Keita from the shite that he knew would be coming his way, and to underline that the main issue was that he had played all three international games plus the Watford game and so 45 mins was about right for him before being replaced.

Which is not to say that he wasn't involved in a couple of bad moments in the game. But really he wasn't alone to blame for a midfield porosity/disconnect issue that has been fairly noticeable in a number of games this season, regardless of who is playing

[Ghost Town]

I think Naby was slightly unfortunate to be playing on the right of a three with Henderson and Milner having to help out both Salah and Trent which is less his game. I think there is a problem in that Gini’s consistency hasn’t been replaced. Thiago helps with keeping possession but won’t play 50 games.
Without the control Henderson and Milner will struggle with their age in this type of game.

Agreed. The lack of Gini in midfield is like a wound that is taking a lot of time to heal

[decosabute]

Why yes indeed, more slagging off of Liverpool players by Liverpool fans is exactly what is needed, to really show how truly classy we are.

It may speak volumes to you, but they're not volumes that Klopp will agree with, being as he made a specific point in his after match presser to exonerate Keita from the shite that he knew would be coming his way, and to underline that the main issue was that he had played all three international games plus the Watford game and so 45 mins was about right for him before being replaced.

Which is not to say that he wasn't involved in a couple of bad moments in the game. But really he wasn't alone to blame for a midfield porosity/disconnect issue that has been fairly noticeable in a number of games this season, regardless of who is playing

No one is resorting to personal attacks on players. He's clearly a good lad, and he wants to do well for us, but I don't think he's up to it. Simple as that. I've waited more than 3 full years for it to happen, but it's not going to at this point. Fine as a rotation player, but he's not better than that. But yeah, he's untouchable in many posters eyes.

And yeah, Klopp may publicly defend him, because that's what a brillant manager and communicator like him would do. But substituting a guy after 35 minutes or at half time of games reveals a lot more of the truth than anything said in a press conference.

[scatman]

No one is resorting to personal attacks on players. He's clearly a good lad, and he wants to do well for us, but I don't think he's up to it. Simple as that. I've waited more than 3 full years for it to happen, but it's not going to at this point. Fine as a rotation player, but he's not better than that. But yeah, he's untouchable in many posters eyes.

And yeah, Klopp may publicly defend him, because that's what a brillant manager and communicator like him would do. But substituting a guy after 35 minutes or at half time of games reveals a lot more of the truth than anything said in a press conference.

Not really, have you ever coached a team? Have you ever managed a team during an actual league game? I highly doubt it because then you'd know sometimes you have to sacrifice a certain player regardless of their performance to make a tactical adjustment. Making a change at 35 minutes means you want to impact the game at 35 minutes. Bringing on a defensive midfielder for a number 8 is a tactical change, you can argue it all you want but that's exactly what it is. Being a Liverpool fan you should fully well fucking know this and especially in this particular tournament considering our history of tactical changes at half time to win the whole damn thing.

[JackWard33]

Agreed. The lack of Gini in midfield is like a wound that is taking a lot of time to heal

Yeah I'm not buying this one - I've seen that performance plenty of times in midfield under Klopp especially away in Europe with Wijnaldum on the pitch
So far this season we've been better than ever with a more attacking set up in midfield (ie always playing with an AM)
It was poor last night for sure but we'd have been worse so far this season with Wijnaldum instead an AM in the set up

[Magix]

Our midfield is in transition, being transformed, and for a midfield at this stage, I think we're in a solid spot. Creativity being pushed, youngsters brought through the ranks, decent depth.

[Fromola]

I think the balance in the midfield isn't right. I don't think any of our midfield options across the entire squad have very good recovery pace (including Fabinho) and so if a team beats our press the gaps can end up looking huge - especially on a big pitch.
It reminds me a lot of when Xabi Alonso was first here and teams ran through us because he had no pace. As soon as Mascherano arrived though, who had it to burn, he was able to focus on things he was good at and he and the team went up another level.
I think the same would happen to Naby and Thiago if we brought in a player with that pace. They just don't have it in their physical attributes to do that so you need to compliment them with players that do and let them focus on what they are good at.
Against most teams we will get away with it but hopefully it's something they will rectify come the summer.

I'd actually credit Sissoko with solving this problem in 05/06 and then Masch came in the next season who offered more.

It's part of why we've been on the end of results like Villa, the midfield has been bypassed and when you play the high line the midfield has to be right.

[Fromola]

The three who played last night was almost out of neccesity. Klopp said before the Watford game that everyone had been away on international duty and he only had one training session with them before travelling for the game. Straight after that we've had to fly to Spain for this game where Fabonho had been waiting for us without any training. It made sense to keep with the same three who had played together a few days earlier.

I'm not sure I buy into the 'pace and power' idea either. The biggest issue for me last night was tactical discipline which we also saw against AC Milan. If midfielders aren't doing their defensive work it leaves big gaps that quality sides will exploit.

Not pace/power for the sake of it (a defensive liability like Pogba for example, or inconsistent player). Someone like Bissouma who could do the kind of tasks Gini did while protecting the back four better.

[Magix]

Not pace/power for the sake of it (a defensive liability like Pogba for example, or inconsistent player). Someone like Bissouma who could do the kind of tasks Gini did while protecting the back four better.

Agree. A Bissouma type would bring out the best of our current (and future) midfield, since we're top heavy on attacking-minded midfielders.

[jepovic]

Our midfield is in transition, being transformed, and for a midfield at this stage, I think we're in a solid spot. Creativity being pushed, youngsters brought through the ranks, decent depth.

Yeah, the injuries and international breaks have forced constant changes to the midfield, and it shows. Defense is a lot about collaboration and focus. I really don't miss a Bissouma type, because players like that have other limitations which brings so many problems in attack.

I do think Henderson should play a bit more cleverly and spot the problems in defense. This season he has been all over the place, and he has left huge gaps behind. There's really no need for that.

[FowlerLegend]

I don't think it's so much about pace. Keita isn't slow, in fact he's very quick the first few yards, but he gets outsmarted too often. Fabinho on the other hand outsmarts almost everyone.

I don't see that at all with Naby, I think he is very slow over the first few yards, especially on the turn.

[FowlerLegend]

I'd actually credit Sissoko with solving this problem in 05/06 and then Masch came in the next season who offered more.

It's part of why we've been on the end of results like Villa, the midfield has been bypassed and when you play the high line the midfield has to be right.

Yes, forgot all about Sissoko.
He was a cracking player and made a huge difference until his eye injury Vs Birmingham.