Author Topic: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager  (Read 56343 times)

Offline RGF30

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #160 on: December 29, 2012, 11:07:54 pm »
Why is it strange?

And who would you have appointed?

Rafa, then a huge gap, then AVB.  I either didn't know much about anyone else who was mentioned (including Rodgers), or I didn't think they would be able to handle working at a club of this size and stature.

Offline Groundskeeper Willie

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #161 on: December 29, 2012, 11:08:58 pm »
of course he was, he basically labeled everyone that has a go at Rodgers as not having the attention span to listen to reason.

I actually questioned the patience of a part of our fanbase.

Drawing conclusions after 6 months in charge? Not having that.

I have understanding for those putting sensible criticism forward, I don´t for those who are already convinced that he´s out of his depth and can´t get it done. And don´t say they don´t exist. I´ve seen them both on here and other places.
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Offline Groundskeeper Willie

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #162 on: December 29, 2012, 11:10:00 pm »
I support the manager but if FSG dont support him with huge investment we will be a top 10 team for years

1st is in the top ten. :)
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Online peachybum

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #163 on: December 29, 2012, 11:12:12 pm »
I support the manager but if FSG dont support him with huge investment we will be a top 10 team for years

Where exactly is this money coming from? I guess 5th and entering administration is as good as 10th.  :)
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Offline Warks Moustache

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #164 on: December 29, 2012, 11:12:17 pm »
Rafa, then a huge gap, then Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas.  I either didn't know much about anyone else who was mentioned (including Rodgers), or I didn't think they would be able to handle working at a club of this size and stature.

There are plenty of fans whose opinions I respect who would have wanted Rafa back. But that doesn't mean you can't support Rodgers staying in the job and molding his own team with his own players. To see what  that looks like requires at least another summer transfer window.

Of course you can criticise how he sets up his team and his tactics on a game by game basis but I do not think its right to start pining for any other manager (Rafa etc.) while he is our manager.

Offline Warks Moustache

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #165 on: December 29, 2012, 11:13:30 pm »
Where exactly is this money coming from? I guess 5th and entering administration is as good as 10th.  :)

Given that the owners purport to not take any money from the club, our revenue should provide a healthy amount of transfer funds and wages paid out to players.

Offline Always_A_Red

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #166 on: December 29, 2012, 11:13:40 pm »
Why should I be better than that? OK, how's about this - someone find a team that has sacked managers repeatedly without endless money and had success. If you can't then by definition not giving the manager time is actively harming the team you claim to support. Well in.

With respect mate, its not sacking the managers that has got us in this mess, its the hundreds of millions of pounds that we have spent in the last 2 years on utter shit that has fucked us up completely.


We’ll still finish in top four - and they won’t. You can quote me on this in May.

Offline helmboy_nige

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #167 on: December 29, 2012, 11:15:04 pm »

Offline NorthamptonKopite

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #168 on: December 29, 2012, 11:15:43 pm »
Rafa, then a huge gap, then Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas.  I either didn't know much about anyone else who was mentioned (including Rodgers), or I didn't think they would be able to handle working at a club of this size and stature.

Fair enough. I personally would've been happy with either of those two, as I was happy with Rodgers as choice. I didn't have a first choice because I felt like it was just too difficult to predict who would/wouldn't do a good job. People will talk of Villas Boas doing a better job than Rodgers but in my opinion Spurs had a much, much better squad than ours, and even though they had one of their best players leaving that meant their transfer kitty was increased hugely by the Modric sale.

Either way, we chose Rodgers and I don't feel that another change in the summer would benefit this club in any way. We've got to stick by who we've got and trust that he will get it right. You can call it blind faith, but I don't really think we have much of a choice but to give Rodgers til' atleast this time next year.

Offline RGF30

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #169 on: December 29, 2012, 11:20:31 pm »
Check this thread.

RFG30 is full of 'what we are doing wrong'.  He's a little light on objective ideas or solutions.

I don't have solutions, I have no idea what can be done bar hiring Rafa back and/or FSG selling and finding a more attractive investment (lets face it, either believe the PR or believe that this is purely an investment, and I doubt every single investment has been a success for them.  I don't think sacking the manager will help, and that by itself doesn't mean I believe in the way he is managing the team.

I still don't hear why people believe in him, other than the "concentrating on supporting our manager" mantra.  I have heard that Mourinho believes in him, and by the same token Mourinho doesn't believe in Rafa, so not impressed.  I have also seen what he has done at a small team (Swansea), not impressed.  Have heard his sound bites, whatever, impressive linguistics, yet still not impressed, read about his failures at other clubs (it happens), so tell me, why the faith?

Offline johnsmithlfc

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #170 on: December 29, 2012, 11:20:53 pm »
With respect mate, its not sacking the managers that has got us in this mess, its the hundreds of millions of pounds that we have spent in the last 2 years on utter shit that has fucked us up completely.

Exactly.... Spot on.
It's Fucking criminal how much we spent and what we actually got for it
I think Kenny and Clarke would be doing much better right now than we are at present but in all honesty, I would have sacked the gentlemen with expensive but shit taste too,  for the amount we spent. And the shit we recruited.

It's actually eye watering and just pisses me off thinking what we could have got with that money had we had people making decisions and selecting targets who actually had a clue.

I know it's not easy and we can't just throw money around, but FSG need to back Rodgers in the same way and allow him to bring in some other players.

However the £25m+ on Borini & Allen doesn't look like great business really... Time will tell though
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 11:29:42 pm by johnsmithlfc »
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Offline rusty-la

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #171 on: December 29, 2012, 11:25:31 pm »



I dont think I can help you.

But I'm supporting the Manager. Its not blind faith, its what we do. Its what used to make us different.

Go back and read the OP.

The difference you seek, but are denying yourself, is sack the Manager. After six months.





Offline -HH-

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #172 on: December 29, 2012, 11:26:06 pm »
With respect mate, its not sacking the managers that has got us in this mess, its the hundreds of millions of pounds that we have spent in the last 2 years on utter shit that has fucked us up completely.

So you have an example of a successful side that persistently sacks their manager and doesn't have loads of money? Because if you don't you're ignoring the point.

Also, some of Kenny's signings were starting to come good as they got used to his style, Carroll in particular. We then switched managers and appointed someone whose style doesn't fit with most of the players Kenny bought, at a cost to ourselves. The more we chop and change managers, the more we have new long term rebuilding projects that never reach a conclusion.
Balotelli, Falcao, Cavani...

I'll be shocked if it's anyone other Etoo. Etoo or no-one. Simples.

In fact, I'll do you all a favor and ban myself from the January transfer window forum if we get anyone other than Etoo.

Offline johnsmithlfc

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #173 on: December 29, 2012, 11:26:09 pm »
Kenny a fckr?
Peachy.
::)


Not literally, more a figure of speech.
Him and comolli.

Wasted soooo much money.
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Offline Bruce88

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #174 on: December 29, 2012, 11:29:28 pm »
The manager has my support, he needs time and I'm prepared to give him that.

Offline Max_powers

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #175 on: December 29, 2012, 11:29:48 pm »
This thread needs to be locked and all posts except the OP deleted. Its slowly going in the direction exactly opposite of what OP intended.

Offline johnsmithlfc

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #176 on: December 29, 2012, 11:30:14 pm »
There you go, changed.
The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively - Bob Marley

Offline rusty-la

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #177 on: December 29, 2012, 11:32:15 pm »
This thread needs to be locked and all posts except the OP deleted. Its slowly going in the direction exactly opposite of what OP intended.

I disagree.  Sure we are losing the theme of the thread.

Whats your considered opinion?

Offline john_mac

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #178 on: December 29, 2012, 11:35:18 pm »
There you go, changed.

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Offline rola

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #179 on: December 29, 2012, 11:37:12 pm »
A cracking op. How could anyone disagree with it?

I don't get the sense that there's any genuine opposition towards Rodgers as manager though. Maybe it seems that way when having to wade through pages of post-match moaning after a bad result.

People will always debate and criticise about players, tactics and rights & wrongs of every decision - it's something unique to football on t'internet. In fact, I'd say it was feature of comment on the internet and social media full stop.  Everyone has opinions and some feel the need to express them more than others. Some people express them in ways that others find objectionable.

My own view is that what people say on internet message boards and blogs is on balance, fairly benign in terms of its overall influence.  The quality of well written, argued and balanced writing will always hold sway over the negative for the sake of it posts, whatever their volume. 

It may seem counter intuitive, but this site should be seeking to attract as many "whoppers" and "muppets" to these pages as possible.  It's an opportunity to educate and inform.  It's a painful process and a thankless task a lot of the time, but rather have someone read just one decent post (or even a part of it) here than have them congregate together elsewhere and give the (false) impression of a growing consensus of disillusionment. 

The temptation in times of stress and difficulty is to batten down the hatches and seek solace in the company of like minded individuals.  However, I feel that contributes to the fragmentation of our support, and restricts the opportunities to get quality posts like the op here (and many others on this site) to a much wider audience.
 
The real danger is the media - the third estate, not the social form that we all indulge in to varying degrees. That's where the opinion forming and malign influence resides - more so with tv than with newspapers, though the two are still very closely linked.  The written form provides much of the source material for the visual format, which then condenses it down into segmented soundbites to be regurgitated and repeated ad nauseum to whatever target audience their advertising paymasters are after.

It was the media that hounded Rafa out of a job.  They could have defended him as a football eccentric or maverick - hard to like for the neutral but widely respected by football people.  No -lets ignore his achievements and ridicule his speech, his appearance, his silly zonal marking etc.  Same with Kenny - all ok while he was King Kenny on his return, but it all turned sour when he decided to defend that horrible Suarez fella and mess up all their "racist" headlines. Then he was "bad Kenny", out of touch with modern football.  They could have defended him as football legend, and acknowledged a run of poor results was part and parcel of his rebuilding programme with the new owners. 

Modern football is all about revenue streams for the owners - how to monetise their football commodity.  Bad press damages brand value and annoys advertisers and sponsors.  It's a sad "fact" of modern football - but it's to be avoided at all costs.

I think that Brendan Rodgers has established a good relationship with the *cough* "esteemed" members of the press and that will buy him a lot more time to work through the results (good and bad) he needs to establish his football at LFC. He's on good terms with the owners too.  Those two factors are massively in his favour, and far outweigh any sense of unrest amongst supporters - which is nothing more than frustration borne out of inconsistent results and performances. See euphoria after Fulham win and despair after Villa & Stoke.   We'll have another uplift or despair session after the next transfer window - there will always be extreme reactions to every situation that the club encounters. 

It's up to the writers and contributors to sites like this to provide some balance, insight & perspective - which, the writer of the op has done admirably on this occasion.

   


 
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

Offline rusty-la

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #180 on: December 29, 2012, 11:37:13 pm »

So you can't, with tongue in cheek, insult people for wasting millions upon millions of pounds, but you can throw personal insults at people.... Really??
Okaaay

Of course you can John. This thread may not be the place though. Why not open a thread to air your views, its what RAWKs all about.

Offline Groundskeeper Willie

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #181 on: December 29, 2012, 11:39:37 pm »


So you can't, with tongue in cheek, insult people for wasting millions upon millions of pounds, but you can throw personal insults at people.... Really??
Okaaay

It´s because you´re not Kenny Dalglish.
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Offline rusty-la

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #182 on: December 29, 2012, 11:40:35 pm »
A cracking op. How could anyone disagree with it?
 

The potential of a great post  is in there somewhere.

Can you forget your Uni thesis and get your view down to a paragraph or two?

Not being difficult, but if you can summarise your view it could be interesting.

Offline rusty-la

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #183 on: December 29, 2012, 11:41:05 pm »
It´s because you´re not Kenny Dalglish.

Well you say that...

Offline johnsmithlfc

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #184 on: December 29, 2012, 11:45:06 pm »
Of course you can John. This thread may not be the place though. Why not open a thread to air your views, its what RAWKs all about.



I'm more of a poster than a thread starter really.
I think there's just a lot of frustration and passion around at the moment, it hasn't been easy watching our club being ripped apart and watching great managers get shafted so badly, and those who had given everything to the club and the fans.

Most people are just angry, angry and fed up and that boils over sometimes.

I have no issues, no desire to start a thread and no desire to personally insult you as you did me... There are more important things like a football club going down the pan to worry about.

I dont think Rodgers is the man and I didn't want him as manager.
Doesn't stop me supporting the club and hoping for better days though.
A huge cloud has been lifted recently off the pitch, it's time for that to start happening on the pitch.

Cheers
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Offline Always_A_Red

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #185 on: December 29, 2012, 11:48:29 pm »
So you have an example of a successful side that persistently sacks their manager and doesn't have loads of money? Because if you don't you're ignoring the point.

Also, some of Kenny's signings were starting to come good as they got used to his style, Carroll in particular. We then switched managers and appointed someone whose style doesn't fit with most of the players Kenny bought, at a cost to ourselves. The more we chop and change managers, the more we have new long term rebuilding projects that never reach a conclusion.

No I cant and I appreciate the point you are making however to say that we are going backwards because we have sacked the managers we had is in my opinion wrong. Im not even going to consider Roy as a manager in the debate because he's an absolute joke but if you consider the money we have spent in the past 2 years, if it was spent wisely, we wouldnt be in this mess.

If only we had a real structure at the club (i.e a DOF) so that the club has a real identity of how it plays its football, so that no matter who the  manager is, the style will still be same. BR doesnt want that though and the CLUB (which I always thought is bigger than any man) agreed they would scrap that and let him run the show himself. For me, BR just put even more pressure on himself to deliver results because of this. Its on his head, but I blame the owners for allowing an inexperienced manager the reins to one of the biggest club in the world and it will hurt us even moreif he is unsuccessful because of this.

On a seperate note, Carroll was at our club for 18 months (albeit was injured for a few months) and scored 6 goals in all competions. He was hardly getting used to the style. He was a disaster....but thats for another thread.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 11:53:30 pm by Always_In_A_Manger »
We’ll still finish in top four - and they won’t. You can quote me on this in May.

Offline Max_powers

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #186 on: December 29, 2012, 11:49:33 pm »
I disagree.  Sure we are losing the theme of the thread.

Whats your considered opinion?

This thread is about supporting the manager, not slating him and every decision he has made. Of course everyone is entitled to there opinion but as the OP and many mods have pointed out this kind of shite is not acceptable here. Calling for a manager's head, or wishing for a new manager when we already have one is extremely disrespectful to the man in charge and is certainly not the Liverpool way. Unless such people have actual constructive things to say(which I highly doubt) this thread needs to locked. Or a tleast cleaned up

Offline rusty-la

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #187 on: December 29, 2012, 11:53:04 pm »



Agreed Max. This thread is about supporting the Manager.

This thread and the OP is also about allowing debate, which is happening.

No need to close this thread, lets allow the debate that the OP began to continue.

Offline Tom_B

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #188 on: December 30, 2012, 12:00:29 am »
Assumed supporting our manager would be a given.
We're on our way to glory...

Offline kennedy81

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #189 on: December 30, 2012, 12:01:17 am »
No chance. We achieved an unbelievable amount in that season even if we didnt win the CL.
like finishing a position lower in the league than we did the year before?

Offline Istillstilltrustrafa

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #190 on: December 30, 2012, 12:02:01 am »
Hear, Hear..
Very well put OP, Let us move forward as one..

Offline theCanadian

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #191 on: December 30, 2012, 12:08:11 am »
not amateur smartarses pointing out his mistakes and pretending he thinks possession is the new goalscoring.

Loved this line.

Great post.

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Offline kennedy81

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #192 on: December 30, 2012, 12:12:45 am »
I don't have solutions, I have no idea what can be done bar hiring Rafa back and/or FSG selling and finding a more attractive investment (lets face it, either believe the PR or believe that this is purely an investment, and I doubt every single investment has been a success for them.  I don't think sacking the manager will help, and that by itself doesn't mean I believe in the way he is managing the team.

I still don't hear why people believe in him, other than the "concentrating on supporting our manager" mantra.  I have heard that Mourinho believes in him, and by the same token Mourinho doesn't believe in Rafa, so not impressed.  I have also seen what he has done at a small team (Swansea), not impressed.  Have heard his sound bites, whatever, impressive linguistics, yet still not impressed, read about his failures at other clubs (it happens), so tell me, why the faith?

because it costs you nothing, but can gain you everything,
so why not believe in him?

are you worried that you'll look foolish to your mates or something, if Rodgers fails?
what have you got to loose?
do you think supporting the manager just means patting him on the back after a good result?
or simply not calling for his head?
whatever chance Rodgers has of succeeding, he'll not go far with people like you in his corner.

Offline rusty-la

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #193 on: December 30, 2012, 12:20:12 am »


Kennedy81, I echo your sentiments.

Great post.

Now is not the time for faint hearts. Lets get back to supporting the Manager, supporting the Club.

If it takes time, then so be it. The worst months lie ahead. We have to unite and believe.

.

Offline theCanadian

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #194 on: December 30, 2012, 12:20:57 am »
Back him. Make sure it is in your head that he gets 2 years minimum, hold your fucking tongue and get behind him. The end.

I'd say minimum 3 years actually, unless the second season is an utter catastrophe (e.g., finishing below 8th).

That should be enough time to let him makes a few mistakes, then make some more, then start to make things click.
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Offline Anywhichwayicant

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #195 on: December 30, 2012, 12:22:16 am »
The worst months lie ahead. We have to unite and believe.

Shall I fetch my bow & arrow?

Offline rusty-la

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #196 on: December 30, 2012, 12:23:01 am »

Offline Garstonite

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #197 on: December 30, 2012, 12:23:35 am »
Honoured to have been involved in that original banner. For once though, I sense that the matchgoing crowd is more patient and behind the project than the forum/Twitter brigade. Which is nice.

Offline lindylou100

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #198 on: December 30, 2012, 12:25:20 am »

I think there's just a lot of frustration and passion around at the moment, it hasn't been easy watching our club being ripped apart and watching great managers get shafted so badly, and those who had given everything to the club and the fans.

Most people are just angry, angry and fed up and that boils over sometimes.


I agree with these points. Frustration is the main reason we see people posting some pretty s****y stuff, this is the main reason I don't post all that often, if everything I shouted at the telly was put up on the forum I'd be banned, most of it i dont even mean but say in anger. Most fans want Rodgers to succeed, his way but with everything that has gone on these last few years it is getting harder to stay positive and harder to justify lecturing others to stay positive.

We need the results to help the fan base to keep believing. I know it's not fair on Rodgers, most of the clubs problems have come about before his time. However, with everything thats happened over the last few years a lot of fans have become disillusioned and patience is wearing thin at the general state of the club. Unfortunately Rodgers may have to bear the brunt of this pent up anger.



Offline RedWesty

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Re: Focusing on Supporting Our Manager
« Reply #199 on: December 30, 2012, 12:29:40 am »


The constant chopping and changing of managers is our biggest problem and it needs to end with Rodgers. It is that simple. The only teams that have success without stability at the top are those with seemingly endless money to throw at their teams. We don't have that, and therefore our best chance of success will always be to give the man in charge an opportunity to shape his vision over time.

I think the supporters should get behind the manager and certainly NOT be calling for his sacking.
However, I have to disagree. The Teams at the top are the ones throwing the money about.
Stability alone will not make us sucessful, it has to be with the right man in charge and it's about making the right choices.
In my opinion we did that in sacking Roy but not in sacking Rafa or Kenny.

Man U have stability but they also spend big. The other teams near the top with stabilty are Arsenal and Everton.
Moyes we took the piss out of for not winning a thing in 10 years and he's finished 4th once.
Wenger is an excellent manager but even he is struggling to stay in the top 4 and many players have left making it even harder.

So stability isn't the be all and end all not with all the money in today's game, maybe FFP will change that I'm not so sure.
Though it is something that I would prefer but only if we have the right manager in charge.
Is Brendan that man? Time will tell and he'll get more time by winning matches it's as simple as that.