Author Topic: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans  (Read 166979 times)

Offline Paul-LFC

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #480 on: September 4, 2012, 11:55:35 am »
A few things to ponder.
You're defending H&G... unbelievable. There are times when you have to step away, dismiss your paranoid anti-FSG agenda and realise you've gone too far. And are also wrong.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #481 on: September 4, 2012, 11:57:02 am »
Sorry Al, you usually strike be a decent poster - but are you off your fucking rocker? The club paid £130 million pounds in loan interest during the tenure of H&G.

We are all frustrated but apologist posts about H&G is insanity.

The Club didn't the 130m was just lumped on to the debt, how do you think the debt spiralled out of control to such a degree. As for being a H&G apologist come off it mate that is just embarrassing go and have a look at my posts when H&G where here. I just think we need to understand that there were shades of grey and nothing was black and white.
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Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #482 on: September 4, 2012, 11:57:32 am »
Al defending Hicks and Gillett so he can have a go at FSG.

I've seen it all now.

I give up and I am done with this shit.

Fucking disgrace.

Bordering on the insane but not surprising. Some just want to stick the boot in at any given opportunity.

The owners haven't been perfect but the one thing they need which is time is the one thing they won't get by some.

Offline steveeastend

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #483 on: September 4, 2012, 11:58:21 am »
Again, although it´s taken from the probably best run club in the world but why not looking at the best although I cannot stand them..

Board
Karl-Heinz Rummenigge
Executive board chairman

Karl-Heinz Rummenigge joined Bayern in 1974 from Lippstadt and played professionally for the club until moving ...

Karl Hopfner
Executive board deputy chairman

Karl Hopfner is a graduate in business economics and is responsible for the club's financial affairs...

Matthias Sammer
Executive board member

Former DFB sporting director Matthias Sammer joined the FC Bayern board of directors on 1 July 2012...

Andreas Jung
Deputy executive board member

Andreas Jung started his career at Bayern with Sportwerbe GmbH, then the club’s commercial arm...

Uli Hoeneß
Supervisory board chairman

Members of the supervisory board

Uli Hoeneß, FC Bayern München e.V. president (chairman)
Herbert Hainer, adidas AG chairman (vice-chairman)
Rupert Stadler, Audi AG chairman (vice-chairman)


Noticable is the mix of football knowledge from ex players,  connections to the german football federation and the business side of things which is heavily connected with the south german industry.

RIGHT NOW, compared to Bayern we are acting like "Andreas Jung" the commercial director would have been responsible for the transfers in order to give Henyckes what he needs.... Unbelievable isn´t it?
« Last Edit: September 4, 2012, 12:03:44 pm by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline Coady

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #484 on: September 4, 2012, 11:58:54 am »
So John Henry is basically our new DOF.
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Offline Eeyore

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #485 on: September 4, 2012, 12:00:32 pm »
You're defending H&G... unbelievable. There are times when you have to step away, dismiss your paranoid anti-FSG agenda and realise you've gone too far. And are also wrong.

Who is defending H&G they were dickheads who thought they could leverage a Club that wasn't profitable, that is just about as atupid as you can be. The problem is some people want to paint H&G as evil and FSG as super smart business men who are running the Club prudently. As always the truth is somewhere in the middle.
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Offline rednich85

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #486 on: September 4, 2012, 12:00:55 pm »
Jesus christ Al, you've gone full circle.

Let's load the debt on to fuck.
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Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #487 on: September 4, 2012, 12:02:09 pm »
Sorry Al, you usually strike be a decent poster - but are you off your fucking rocker? The club paid £130 million pounds in loan interest during the tenure of H&G.

We are all frustrated but apologist posts about H&G is insanity.

Actually Al as ever is being generally accurate.  LFC never paid those loans, we never made enough profit to be able to.  The loans were paid by the holding company initially and then unpaid. 

Also, as ever, Al is spinning the facts in a most disingenuous manner.  Under Hicks and Gillett we did have a loan for working capital which was paid out of the club accounts in much the same way that the current FSG loan is.   The interest on this had risen to £17.6m by the end of their watch.

The other facts are kinda of correct but just look at Fact 2 to see the spin he puts on them.  I'd recommend stopping reading at that point to be honest as it is clear that he attempting to obscure rather than illuminate.  Tedious really.
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Offline Eeyore

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #488 on: September 4, 2012, 12:05:34 pm »
Jesus christ Al, you've gone full circle.

Let's load the debt on to fuck.

H&G were absent owners with a stupid business model have we seen anything from FSG that shows they aren't the same ?
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Offline Hank Scorpio

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #489 on: September 4, 2012, 12:06:38 pm »
Very good post and we need a similar structure IMO.

Offline Paul-LFC

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #490 on: September 4, 2012, 12:07:01 pm »
H&G were absent owners with a stupid business model have we seen anything from FSG that shows they aren't the same ?
They're attempting to run us as a sustainable business and not put us on the road to administration again, for a start?

Offline redmark

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #491 on: September 4, 2012, 12:13:05 pm »
H&G were absent owners with a stupid business model have we seen anything from FSG that shows they aren't the same ?

I'll accept that the current situation is reminiscent (though maybe no more than that) of Rafa/Parry miscommunication and disagreements on transfers. The common reason for that probably is the lack of a Huw Jenkins or Daniel Levy.

But that does not lead to FSG = G&H.
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Offline Aaron Cross

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #492 on: September 4, 2012, 12:14:49 pm »
It's a Smart move by Mr Henry holding off till January to sign players, much better value then, clubs just love getting rid of players on the cheap mid season, it makes the most sense, I'd like him to strip the squad further, maybe get it down to 14 players or something, now that would get me excited, I'm starting to get into all this cutting, fuck glory, I want to see good returns, teams  challanging for titles every year don't have a clue what there missing out on, give me savings on the balance sheet please. thank you Mr Henry for all this, to help out like you are for nothing is commendable, wish there were more like you out there..

Offline Hank Scorpio

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #493 on: September 4, 2012, 12:14:57 pm »
I'll accept that the current situation is reminiscent (though maybe no more than that) of Rafa/Parry miscommunication and disagreements on transfers. The common reason for that probably is the lack of a Huw Jenkins or Daniel Levy.

But that does not lead to FSG = G&H.
Just to add Mark, the lack of a HJ or DL is down to FSG.  I'd say 2 years is more than enough time to get someone in place.

Offline helmboy_nige

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #494 on: September 4, 2012, 12:15:40 pm »
I've heard it all now when I see apologist posts for H&G.

We can be pissed off and we can question the mistakes of owners, managers and board members.  But where is this conversation leading?  Are we saying that every time something goes wrong we choose from the following options?

- sack the manager
- demand the head of a board member
- protest against the owners

I'm sorry, but the club has been mismanaged for 20 years.  We've survived on history, the love of the fans and some awesome cup campaigns.  When FSG came in they made it clear that we needed to completely rebuild.  We have lost 18 months for me, due to the owners decision to go with Comolli and turn back time in putting Kenny on a permanent contract (not a criticism but lets be honest... FSG didn't want him).

This is about more than just players and who we sign or don't sign.

It will take years.  It will get worse before it gets better (though hopefully not as bad as the doomsayers are saying ie relegation).  We can choose to trust in this rebuild and act like the patient fans we were through the Evans and Houllier years or we can become the thing we hate; fickle fans who turn on each other, the board, the manager, the players all because we aren't producing instant results against teams that are simple better (or more stable) than us.

Offline the jesus

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #495 on: September 4, 2012, 12:17:26 pm »
Shhh don't use logic in here.

How many goals did Andy score last year anyway?

9 in all competitions making him joint 2nd top scorer (in a year where we were chronically short of goals)with three other players. Two of which have since left.

I think the criticism of FSG can be taken to far but to pretend that they didn't fuck up by not keeping or replacing Andy is ridiculous.
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Offline Vondaspucci

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #496 on: September 4, 2012, 12:18:35 pm »
The paranoia and mistrust of FSG on here is scary. Can only hope it's just the ramblings of internet nutters and the wider fan base are thinking a little more sanely.
FSG have messed up, as they've admitted in the open letter, but they seem to be learning from their mistakes and will no doubt continue to do so. One of their biggest mistakes was appointing Commolli and/or Kenny (the latter at the behest of much of the fan base), depending on which one was fundamentally behind last Summer's spending, but that was a mistake and not an intentional ripping off of the club. I was hugely disappointed by them not signing Dempsey and regard it as a schoolboy error by them, but again it was a mistake and as long as they learn from it I can forgive that. We are where we are now and need to bed in for a tough season, I suspect, and support the team and manager now as best we can. It's a bit depressing and not easy but bitching about things to try and drive a wedge between the fans/manager/owners is certainly not the answer.
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Offline rednich85

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #497 on: September 4, 2012, 12:19:11 pm »
H&G were absent owners with a stupid business model have we seen anything from FSG that shows they aren't the same ?

Come on Al, FSG aren't having to meet with the bank to beg for mercy. That's just for starters.

I can't believe this is the angle you're coming at this with. 

Almost lauding H&G to nail the point about FSG. You're doing yourself no favours mate.
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Offline redmark

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #498 on: September 4, 2012, 12:19:49 pm »
Just to add Mark, the lack of a HJ or DL is down to FSG.  I'd say 2 years is more than enough time to get someone in place.

Absolutely. I was disappointed they appeared to give way to Rodgers to the extent that they apparently did in May, tempered by the 'gut feeling' that Rodgers could be the right man. But he's not god and will not be granted omnipotence. We need a strong CEO/whatever with good footballing instincts and the authority to take decisions, on the ground.
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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #499 on: September 4, 2012, 12:19:54 pm »
Ah, just saw a quote.

Un- fucking- believable.
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Offline Eeyore

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #500 on: September 4, 2012, 12:21:42 pm »
I'll accept that the current situation is reminiscent (though maybe no more than that) of Rafa/Parry miscommunication and disagreements on transfers. The common reason for that probably is the lack of a Huw Jenkins or Daniel Levy.

But that does not lead to FSG = G&H.

I haven't said they are though have I. What I attempted to do was to stop looking at everything in black and white. It's stupidity in the extreme. We pick a scapegoat whether it's H&G, Purslow, Parry, Comolli or now Ayre and pin everything on them. FSG talk about a Collegiate approach and collective responsibility and then chuck someone under the bus. we then lap it up until the next time a scapegoat is needed.

Stop looking at everything in black and white and look for the subtle shades of grey. 
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Offline Groundskeeper Willie

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #501 on: September 4, 2012, 12:23:19 pm »
I haven't said they are though have I. What I attempted to do was to stop looking at everything in black and white. It's stupidity in the extreme. We pick a scapegoat whether it's H&G, Purslow, Parry, Comolli or now Ayre and pin everything on them. FSG talk about a Collegiate approach and collective responsibility and then chuck someone under the bus. we then lap it up until the next time a scapegoat is needed.

Stop looking at everything in black and white and look for the subtle shades of grey. 

Having a little bit of knowledge about your post history, that remark strikes me as quite ironic.

I think there are plenty of posters actually doing that, and with all due respect, you´re not one of them.
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Offline Paul-LFC

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #502 on: September 4, 2012, 12:23:44 pm »
Buying Adam for 9m and selling for 4m, buying Carroll for 35m and agreeing to sell for 17m, paying off Hodgson, Kenny, Comolli, Clarke, Keen et all for tens of millions. Where is the sustainability in that ?

They are like an Alkie telling everyone that they aren't going to drink anymore whilst swigging from a bottle of JD.

Judge us by our actions they said, well get your finger out of your arse and judge them, next month they will have been here two years, judge them on their actions.
The sustainability is in the fact that they have not sent the club into debt to do anything - the initial debt was known when they took over, the "revolving debt facility" - they have not added any more debt to that. That is the sustainability.

I have judged them on what they've done so far. Just because my judgement doesn't agree with yours doesn't mean that I haven't.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #503 on: September 4, 2012, 12:24:55 pm »
Come on Al, FSG aren't having to meet with the bank to beg for mercy. That's just for starters.

I can't believe this is the angle you're coming at this with. 

Almost lauding H&G to nail the point about FSG. You're doing yourself no favours mate.

Not so long ago the NYT had a 7.6 % share in FSG but had to sell to keep themselves afloat. We simply do not know the state of FSG's finances or the state of finances of the individual members. FSG's actions on the last day of the window and the dumping of contracts in Boston should make us vigilant.
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Offline redmark

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #504 on: September 4, 2012, 12:25:15 pm »
I haven't said they are though have I. What I attempted to do was to stop looking at everything in black and white. It's stupidity in the extreme. We pick a scapegoat whether it's H&G, Purslow, Parry, Comolli or now Ayre and pin everything on them. FSG talk about a Collegiate approach and collective responsibility and then chuck someone under the bus. we then lap it up until the next time a scapegoat is needed.

Stop looking at everything in black and white and look for the subtle shades of grey. 

If you actually read other people's posts, you'd see that I've been doing precisely that for the past couple of days - critical of all involved for the failure to recruit another forward - while you've been blaming FSG solely for the transfer deadline debacle. There is no evidence of FSG chucking anyone under the bus; on the contrary, it is the leaks to Barrett and Evans from within the club that seem to be pushing blame across the Atlantic and away from Ayre/Rodgers.

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Offline Paul-LFC

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #505 on: September 4, 2012, 12:26:51 pm »
Not so long ago the NYT had a 7.6 % share in FSG but had to sell to keep themselves afloat. We simply do not know the state of FSG's finances or the state of finances of the individual members. FSG's actions on the last day of the window and the dumping of contracts in Boston should make us vigilant.
Except for the fact that they have always said they look for young players that will provide value, and that anyone in this thread with knowledge of baseball has said that contract dumping is quite common in the sport. Your attempt to twist everything so that it reflects badly on FSG is tedious at best.

Offline filopastry

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #506 on: September 4, 2012, 12:28:44 pm »
Not so long ago the NYT had a 7.6 % share in FSG but had to sell to keep themselves afloat. We simply do not know the state of FSG's finances or the state of finances of the individual members. FSG's actions on the last day of the window and the dumping of contracts in Boston should make us vigilant.

The dumping of contracts in Boston has not exactly been received badly by most of the Red Sox fanbase from what I've seen, more viewed as a get out of jail free card for some expensive non-performing players.

If they don't go out and spend again in the offseason there it would be fair enough to be concerned, but there's nothing in what has happened so far to indicate that there is any kind of financial problem.

There's also nothing in what we've done to indicate the same, we spent what was expected over the window and then fucked up right at the end.

Vigilance is great, constantly assuming the worst with nothing much to back it up is madness however.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #507 on: September 4, 2012, 12:30:50 pm »
If you actually read other people's posts, you'd see that I've been doing precisely that for the past couple of days - critical of all involved for the failure to recruit another forward - while you've been blaming FSG solely for the transfer deadline debacle. There is no evidence of FSG chucking anyone under the bus; on the contrary, it is the leaks to Barrett and Evans from within the club that seem to be pushing blame across the Atlantic and away from Ayre/Rodgers.



From the moment they arrived they have been chucking people under the bus remember the off the record briefings telling everyone Hodgson was a dead man walking.
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Offline Eeyore

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #508 on: September 4, 2012, 12:32:53 pm »
The dumping of contracts in Boston has not exactly been received badly by most of the Red Sox fanbase from what I've seen, more viewed as a get out of jail free card for some expensive non-performing players.

If they don't go out and spend again in the offseason there it would be fair enough to be concerned, but there's nothing in what has happened so far to indicate that there is any kind of financial problem.

There's also nothing in what we've done to indicate the same, we spent what was expected over the window and then fucked up right at the end.

Vigilance is great, constantly assuming the worst with nothing much to back it up is madness however.

Last season it was Tito chucked under the bus, now it's the players, amazing how Teflon Tom and Who me Henry manage to dodge the bullets everytime.
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Offline Paul-LFC

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #509 on: September 4, 2012, 12:34:47 pm »
Last season it was Tito chucked under the bus, now it's the players, amazing how Teflon Tom and Who me Henry manage to dodge the bullets everytime.
So they should just keep underperforming expensive players around then should they? Evidently you seem to think Henry and Werner are directly responsible for poor on-field form of the Red Sox - your agenda really has taken over any sense of logical and rational thought, hasn't it?

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #510 on: September 4, 2012, 12:34:56 pm »
Well said Filo.

Al555, heed that warning because we will not allow you to derail this thread.  It is important that we view this calmly and rationally with cold and informed eyes.  You are not helping anybody to do that.  You are distorting the debate and deliberately obscuring the realities to suit some sort of agenda.  Though I have to admit that I lost track, and interest, in precisely what that agenda was some time ago.
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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #511 on: September 4, 2012, 12:36:34 pm »
From the moment they arrived they have been chucking people under the bus remember the off the record briefings telling everyone Hodgson was a dead man walking.

If I remember rightly most fans were saying they gave Hodgson too much rather than too little time, we can't keep changing our arguments every season just to suit the circumstances.

Last season we had everyone saying they were incompetent and should have stepped in to stop Comolli and Kenny from wasting a fortune on crazy deals, this year it's a disgrace that they've stepped in to limit the offer we were willing to make for Dempsey.

They've clearly made mistakes, some of them serious but some of the criticism is unfair to say the least.

For a lot of fans the knives are out for the owners, whether that's because of what happened under H&G, because they removed Kenny or for other reasons I have no idea, but let's not deny there is a clear agenda from some fans to twist any facts to put the owners in the least favourable light.

Offline Severely

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #512 on: September 4, 2012, 12:37:14 pm »
The paranoia and mistrust of FSG on here is scary. Can only hope it's just the ramblings of internet nutters and the wider fan base are thinking a little more sanely.
FSG have messed up, as they've admitted in the open letter, but they seem to be learning from their mistakes and will no doubt continue to do so. One of their biggest mistakes was appointing Commolli and/or Kenny (the latter at the behest of much of the fan base), depending on which one was fundamentally behind last Summer's spending, but that was a mistake and not an intentional ripping off of the club. I was hugely disappointed by them not signing Dempsey and regard it as a schoolboy error by them, but again it was a mistake and as long as they learn from it I can forgive that. We are where we are now and need to bed in for a tough season, I suspect, and support the team and manager now as best we can. It's a bit depressing and not easy but bitching about things to try and drive a wedge between the fans/manager/owners is certainly not the answer.

True. Very worrying, especially since the actual situation is very on-the-fence. They made a mistake, and while that's certainly reason for concern, the hysteria around here would make you think it was the return of H&G. The fact is, the club is currently relatively financially secure. We as a club are not in fear of no longer existing. That fact alone makes the H&G comparisons laughable. There are problems with management in the higher positions in the club. It remains to be seen whether these problems will be resolved. I don't see how it's rational to be calling for a witchhunt on FSG before they're given a chance to fix their mistakes. Especially since they do seem willing to learn from the past. Compare our transfer policy to the transfer policy last season. Aside from the giant fuck up with Carroll-Dempsey, which is an entirely new mistake, they didn't sanction any transfers that were overpriced, they didn't pay over the top wages, and we bought some of the best young talent around. If FSG now fail to act and make zero changes to the board and we make no signings in January, maybe some of the almost hysterical arguments here could be justified, but until then, there's no evidence supporting any of this FSG = H&G shit I keep seeing. For me, it's innocent until proven guilty, and the fact is, FSG haven't been proven guilty of anything other than occurrences of incompetence as of yet, and if they're going to be able to sort this stuff out, they're going to need time, but some people seem intent on depriving them of that if at all possible.

The other thing that annoys me is that on one hand, we have everyone calling for the club to be sustainable, but at the same time, people are dancing around the issue that what they actually want is a sugar daddy pumping money into the club. People can deny it all they like, but it's true. You get the snide remarks about not having a striker, and then complaining in advance that whoever we get in January, for example, Walcott or Sturridge, won't be good enough. It makes me furious. How short are people's memories, that they can't remember the position we were in 2 years ago, and how we got there? Even with all the wage cutting, it's evident that we're on Champions League wages without the CL. The fact is, if we're going to be sustainable, there is no short fix. It's going to take years of steady, careful, clever building if we're going to get to where we want, and until the Carroll-Dempsey fiasco, there were promising signs of that. I suggest people focus on the positives for now, give FSG time to sort it out, and if they don't, then they can grab the pitchforks.
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Offline Redeo

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #513 on: September 4, 2012, 12:38:09 pm »
"Certainly" - but you said yourself mate "there are so many imponderables that the wisest course for a disappointed Liverpool fan is to hold fire until we know more". That strictly in relation to deadline day, of course, but again, what makes you certain they're not passively dawdling along, only reacting when the PR goblin rears its head? Because that's the consistent evidence, and it's borne out over a far longer period than just this last week, and is not restricted to LFC.

Regardless, Fulham may well have been irrational in their negotiating stance, but why were LFC people there in the first place if the asking price was never going to be agreed in the first place? The simple answer is to surmise that our men on the ground either didn't know FSG's criteria, or had been given vague guidance as to how the process should work. Otherwise they'd long since have explored other, younger alternatives.

That hints at poor communication and process behind the scenes, something they knew about on day 1, yet haven't addressed with a competent CEO, instead Peter Principle-ing a salesman into a role he's ill-equipped to perform (something painfully illustrated by the Suarez business last season).

So yes, slumber. A context where glaring problems stare them in the face (repeatedly), where solutions are available, but where they take no action unless an incident causes enough of a PR kerfuffle for them to "write an open letter", or whatever else.

For me I see no evidence of a joined up plan, not here or at the Red Sox. That doesn't tally with their reputation. They seem nice enough and I'm sure they want to win, but they're not nearly interventionist and involved enough to nip problems in the bid and plan sensibly.

That goes way beyond this last week - people have been making the same consistent point for a long time now - there's nothing knee jerk about it. Team, structure, staff and stadium. They don't know whether they're coming or going.

All it takes is some simple common sense.
Spot on! Give us just common sense, but I'm affraid they're not versed in football well enough to have common sense, just like H&G. People can rationalize however they want, the truth of the matter is that our operational structure hasn't progressed since Benitez was perpetually crying to be given funds and support at the outset of a transfer window so that he doesn't miss his key targets. The same thing happened with Torres/Carroll and now with Carroll/Dempsey/Sturridge.
You can't make progress in a transfer window while tying future purchases to players being sold and released first. You have to outline a vision (players in/out), make funds available at the outset to your manager, and let him wheel and deal. That's common sense, and its not rocket science ffs.
It's a website mate. Names can't be named. If they were, there'd be mutiny. If they aren't, people will scream ... ask for proof. But you will never find 100% proof of anything on here. So, .. look at all evidence, weigh everything up and make a decision.

Offline decky

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #514 on: September 4, 2012, 12:43:16 pm »
Last season it was Tito chucked under the bus, now it's the players, amazing how Teflon Tom and Who me Henry manage to dodge the bullets everytime.

agree with Filopastry, you're massively over reacting. It's clear that there are issues that need addressing in terms of the operational structure but the plan is a good one and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that FSG are following it

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #515 on: September 4, 2012, 12:43:47 pm »
Al defending Hicks and Gillett so he can have a go at FSG.

I've seen it all now.

I give up and I am done with this shit.

Fucking disgrace.

He does it using Purslow emails as well. Just to make a point.
Talk about clutching.
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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #516 on: September 4, 2012, 12:49:50 pm »
FSG's actions on the last day of the window and the dumping of contracts in Boston should make us vigilant.

There's a difference between being vigilant, and being a vigilante. You're comments go beyond holding them to account, and are veering in to the territory of pitchforks and flaming torches. I personally think you're way off the case with your convoluted theories.

In most cases, in most walks of life, the cock up scenario is invariably a more likely scenario than the conspiracy theory. Cock up requires vigilance, but conspiracy requires the vigilante. As a fanbase we turned vigilante when we realised that H&G were a pair of cowboys who were intent on robbing us of our club. By trying to blur the edges of our previous and current experiences I think you're doing a disservice to our fans who fought the good fight, and you're making it difficult to keep a clear view of the difference between our previous owners and the current incumbents.

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #517 on: September 4, 2012, 12:52:08 pm »
Right folks back on track please.

Also if you want to be informed before joining in the debate, and who doesn't?  Then I would recommend giving this thread a read post haste
http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=297305.0

Also abusing my powers a reminder to everyone.  Two programmes coming up on Hillsborough this week, one at 10.30 on Sunday night, one at the same time on Monday.  Both leading up to the release of the HIP panel report on Sept 12th.  Spread the word. Set your TIVOs, whatever.
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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #518 on: September 4, 2012, 12:52:09 pm »
Well said Filo.

Al555, heed that warning because we will not allow you to derail this thread.  It is important that we view this calmly and rationally with cold and informed eyes.  You are not helping anybody to do that.  You are distorting the debate and deliberately obscuring the realities to suit some sort of agenda.  Though I have to admit that I lost track, and interest, in precisely what that agenda was some time ago.

I find this whole thing hard to debate in frankly, you accuse Al of distorting the thread, and I agree sometimes he can go "too far" doesn't mean he doesn't also speak sense. I would love to share the enthusium some of you have for the new owners, but sorry I just can't. I just think their whole plan is flawed, does that make me a conspiracy loving fanatic? I'm fed up of people on the other side lumping everyone together, who dares to have a different view point to themselves. 
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Offline memoriesgone

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #519 on: September 4, 2012, 12:53:34 pm »
According to the same sources that say FSG wouldn't stump up a million for Dempsey, yes. Chelsea were agreeable to a loan deal, a loan to buy, or a permanent deal. Sturridge rejected the loan only.

I don't know whether to believe whatever was reported about the Dempsey deal on deadline day that we fell short of 1 million. It looks more a case of Fulham screwing us over probably. I don't get the Sturridge issue much. FSG have no agenda in pushing the deal through. He was probably Rodgers' target. Chelsea don't have any option for CF apart from Sturridge and Torres and they failed to sign any striker in the summer. All I can assume from this is we wanted a loan deal while Sturridge wanted permanent. But Chelsea failed to sign a striker at the end of the window. I don't know how we would have clinched that deal without them having atleast another 2 apart from DS. One thing possible would be they wanted the money from Sturridge deal to finance their striker purchase but since when did they need to sell to buy. So we either failed to pay the cash or BR didn't trust him as a long term solution and only wanted a loan or it was an attempt to make us feel better. It's weird trying to offload Hendo to get in Dempsey when you are allowed to buy DS for 15m. I obviously don't know about the dealings of the club but it's fair to say they're very contradictory/confusing.

As long as we are able to address our striker situation in Jan, I don't see a problem. It's probably important to get 4th in order to keep some of our top players. Last season our post January fixtures resulted in relegation form. And we tumbled from possible 4th to 8th. I hope this season we can turn it around the other way. All this doom and gloom is very depressing. I see some positives emerging from this season already. Hodgson had us playing absolute shit football and that too with the likes of Poulsen and Konchesky. At least this season we are going in knowing we can finally give our young players the chance. Results may suffer - they have suffered since the dark days of Hodgson anyway. Last season promised so much but failed to deliver but this time we have a young squad and we can look to build on these foundations.

And some supporters have got to stop with all the knee-jerk anti FSG speculation based on one transfer window. We have been out of the CL for a few years running and we obviously needed some cuts to prevent further losses. Let's just wait and see how things unfold rather than losing hair thinking our club is run by people who are just looking to screw us over.
« Last Edit: September 4, 2012, 12:56:56 pm by memoriesgone »