Author Topic: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans  (Read 167058 times)

Offline Red Cez

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #320 on: September 4, 2012, 02:58:15 am »
That's not what he's saying. Hindsight is 20-20. Comolli (and others) fucked up, and they're gone. FSG learned their lesson. Hopefully the team will be stronger in January. Brendan has a tough job for the next 4 months

Brendan has my complete support the same as every single manager we've had in my lifetime. I don't owe any owners support. If they're not up to the job I want them out. This lot are different to the cancers, they simply saw us as a business they could flip for a profit, FSG just seem utterly incompetent.

As far as this 'lets see where we are after January' line goes, why should I buy it? Why should I sit back quietly in the hope that FSG finally get something right for us in terms of on the pitch success? This club is on the verge of becoming an also-ran, its taken a battering from years of piss-poor management at boardroom level, we should just wait and pray that FSG will suddenly turn it all around and start making the moves necessary  to halt our decline?

Well they won't. John Henry himself said he won't. We won't pull ourselves out of this mess without serious levels of investment both on the field and off the field. FSG either aren't willing or able to provide that investment, even if they were I doubt they'd know what to do it with it, so that is the end of it as far as I'm concerned.

FSG are hoping for a miracle, that we'll somehow be able to compete with clubs who have had years of concerted investment into their playing squads, while insisting we operate on a shoestring budget. I don't believe in miracles.

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Offline BEAST

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #321 on: September 4, 2012, 03:11:56 am »
Brendan has my complete support the same as every single manager we've had in my lifetime. I don't owe any owners support. If they're not up to the job I want them out. This lot are different to the cancers, they simply saw us as a business they could flip for a profit, FSG just seem utterly incompetent.

As far as this 'lets see where we are after January' line goes, why should I buy it? Why should I sit back quietly in the hope that FSG finally get something right for us in terms of on the pitch success? This club is on the verge of becoming an also-ran, its taken a battering from years of piss-poor management at boardroom level, we should just wait and pray that FSG will suddenly turn it all around and start making the moves necessary  to halt our decline?

Well they won't. John Henry himself said he won't. We won't pull ourselves out of this mess without serious levels of investment both on the field and off the field. FSG either aren't willing or able to provide that investment, even if they were I doubt they'd know what to do it with it, so that is the end of it as far as I'm concerned.

FSG are hoping for a miracle, that we'll somehow be able to compete with clubs who have had years of concerted investment into their playing squads, while insisting we operate on a shoestring budget. I don't believe in miracles.

simple question - do you want a sugar daddy owner?

If our budget is shoestring, then what the hell is Arsenal, Spurs and Newcastle's budget?

Offline Red Cez

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #322 on: September 4, 2012, 03:22:47 am »
simple question - do you want a sugar daddy owner?

If our budget is shoestring, then what the hell is Arsenal, Spurs and Newcastle's budget?

I wouldn't say no to a sugar daddy, I couldn't care less where the money comes from.

The financial side of the game has changed, if we want to play a meaningful part in that game we have a hell of a lot of ground to make up and that needs money. To expect us to compete with the likes of the Manc clubs and Chelsea while they're reaping the benefits of massive investment over many years is ludicrous.

No club has managed to win the league in English football in the last 20 years without significant investment into its playing squad. Fact.

I don't care about Arsenal, Spurs or Newcastle.

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Offline LiverBirdKop

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #323 on: September 4, 2012, 03:26:54 am »
You know what's gonna be fun? Is when that documentary about LFC comes out it portrays FSG as 1) Clueless  2) Unjustly ruthless 3) Gullable and Clueless 4) -Insert your own-  Re: Kenny's sacking.

And if we were to go on and get no points at Sunderland and then get a bad result vs. the Mancs....oh shit....

Offline LiverBirdKop

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #324 on: September 4, 2012, 03:33:48 am »
simple question - do you want a sugar daddy owner?
Wouldn't bloody mind one if he built us a new stadium or a beautiful new expanded Anfield + Anfield Plaza..... 3 star players, 10 or so talented youngsters and one of the best worldwide scouting networks in case the FFP actually were to be strictly enforced.

Offline Melbred

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #325 on: September 4, 2012, 03:34:00 am »
Just read the OP, and that is a bloody brilliant post. Reality check for all if ever there was one.

Offline juan1001

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #326 on: September 4, 2012, 03:34:19 am »
It's your opinion. The other thread was locked because people were spouting opinion as fact. Do us a favour and expand on what justification you have for that opinion.
Yes. it is my opinion. It's based on my 30yrs experience in business dealings and management in North America that include running an import business in Los Angeles. I have dealt with many American business owners (and managers of fortune 500 companies) and can assure you that 99% of American business owners are motivated by one and only one thing.
Americans justify all their actions via PR and spin. And they are ruthless.
There is a lot of double speak in the open letter and that point about being owners that are not in it for the profit just tops the cake. What is said in that letter is just not a frank disclosure of what is happening. Clearly they do not trust the judgement of the manager, yet they say he has their full backing. They are making decisions that they supposedly delegated to the manager. There is a major breakdown in communication between the owners and the manager. The manager made statements on Thursday (and before that) that he would never have made if he knew what the position of the owners was.
If they are not being 100% frank with their manager, do you think they are being frank with their customers?
Their m.o. is classic American business. Even after two years as owners, they are prone to major gaffs, and have shown very little as far as having gained an understanding of the Football business in the PL, yet they persist on placing their hands in the day to day operations of the business at the most delicate times. It's fine if they want to run the business the way they want to, but it would run more smoothly if they made their policies and intentions clear to their employees and customers beforehand.
As American business owners they are only thinking of one thing. How to maximize the return on their investment. If they tell you anything else, it's a lie. Heck the entire middle class of the country has been eroded by businessmen taking actions that will maximize the return on investment. Do you think that they will make an exception for a football team? Americans talk long term, but like their politicians, they can't get past thinking four years ahead.

Offline Red Reign

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #327 on: September 4, 2012, 03:49:12 am »
Wouldn't bloody mind one if he built us a new stadium or a beautiful new expanded Anfield + Anfield Plaza..... 3 star players, 10 or so talented youngsters and one of the best worldwide scouting networks in case the FFP actually were to be strictly enforced.

As far as possible from the "Liverpool Way" as you can get there, mate.
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Offline AusRed

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #328 on: September 4, 2012, 03:49:48 am »
simple question - do you want a sugar daddy owner?

If our budget is shoestring, then what the hell is Arsenal, Spurs and Newcastle's budget?

I personally don't want a sugar daddy owner. I don't want to 'Buy' a title. ...But I would like us to improve on areas that need improving.

I like the idea of giving youth a chance. We have some talented youngsters waiting in the wings. I would have liked to have bought a decent striker to help Suarez and Borini. That way we have enough cover plus we can gradually bring through the youngsters without pressure.

Any youngster that plays from now until January will have the weight of expectation on their shoulders. Sterling has played out of his skin and I feel might be overplayed between now and January.

The good that has come out of this is basically it shows the younger guys that there are spots up for grabs and opportunities if they work hard enough...
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Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #329 on: September 4, 2012, 03:54:14 am »
During our search for a new manager it looked like FSG wanted a management structure designed to act as a balance against a coach soley determining the playing staff. The structure that was being talked about looked remarkably like the structure Lyon have implemented in France and has been instrumental in Lyon becoming a successful club that is always knocking on the door of European success despite being a non traditional european team. The Chapter in Soccenomics explained thebenefits of the structure wellbut in my humble opinion it wouldn't have worked well at Liverpool as at Lyon.

To be fair, I think the committee style model is a competent alternative to the Director of Football model. While not everyone's cup of tea in Britain, it provides checks and balances and a diffusion of ideas, which could be quite useful. I think a lot more teams on the continent other than Lyon use it, although Lyon obviously get a lot of credit and more publicity for promoting it. Porto and Dortmund have created the successors to this idea, with the former being especially successful using dynamic coaching, extensive scouting, canny signings and aggressive selling practices. Certainly, there are practices and approaches they can get away with that we can't (looser laws regarding work permits, youth contracts, South American signings and third-party deals). That isn't to say their modus operandi is inherently risk-free, because it is exceptionally risky: relying on high transfer fees in sales to cover for smaller revenue streams and the need to constantly produce quality players. But I think a lot of what Lyon, Porto and Dortmund have done can be applied here, provided that all abide by the outlined principles.

The Lyon model, which was the system most clubs wanted to follow at the beginning of the noughties, has rapidly lost its way, in large part to the fact that Lyon, in search of CL glory, knowingly went against the principles they had put in place to stop things going awry. They had rules against spending large amounts of money on forwards, but blew €11m on Cesar Delgado and €18.5m on Kader Keita, who scored a grand total of twelve goals between them in 129 games. They vowed not to spend heavily on players in the domestic market, but around 2007/08, they proceeded to spend the aforementioned funds on Keita as well as €6.5m on Mathieu Bodmer, €7.5m on Pjanic, €15m on Ederson, €14m on Jean Makoun and €8.4m on John Mensah. Nor would they spend considerable sums on "stars," but spent €7m on Fabio Grosso in 2007/08 and €8.5m on Hugo Lloris in 2008/09. By 2009/10, they were spending €24m on Lisandro Lopez, €18m on Michel Bastos, €15m on Aly Cissokho (who cost Porto €300,000 6 months earlier) and €13m on Baftembi Gomis.

In fact the only principle, they truly stuck to (albeit it a little too well) was the notion of selling a player at his peak value. In one summer, they sold Florent Malouda (€21m), Alou Diarra (€7.75m), Eric Abidal (€15m) and Tiago (€13m). With the exception of Tiago, the first three would win titles with their new clubs. The next summer, they sold Ben Arfa who couldn't get on with Benzema for €12m. He won the league with Marseille. Hiring the anemic Claude Puel (and sticking with him too long) probably didn't help either. They haven't won the league since 2007/08, after winning it six years in a row and have been outsmarted by the likes of lowly Montpellier, who had been playing in Ligue 2 about three years earlier. Perhaps, as good a model to follow as Lyon were about a decade ago, they now offer a sign of a path to avoid. Their model wasn't necessarily bad, but like similar approaches of the period (Werder Bremen for instance) things unraveled when clubs abandoned their principles to chase CL glories.

I think in terms of our relationship to these sorts of approaches, what will be interesting to see over the next 12 months or so, is how much are the "collective" if you will (FSG, Ayre, Rodgers, scouting and analysis) going to adhere to the sort of principles they state they are trying to outline. Is it going to be a Dortmund or Barcelona type process in which long-term principles are stuck to, despite the opinions of fans and potential slip-ups in competitions? Or, are there going to be short-term panic buys and changes of tactical and philosophical approach to suit the needs of players whose influence outweighs their current value to the team?

 Like it or not, this is going to be a bit of a bumpy process for a bit. Will it be painful? Yes. Rocky and cumbersome at times? Yes. I won't be surprised if there are more "mistakes" along the way, but I would like to think the types of PR debacles that happened with Suarez-Evra and the lack of value under Comolli will eventually begin to be amended. Although he was their hire, FSG got burned by Comolli and hopefully they will have learned from it. Like in many businesses they hired someone on the strength of a recommendation, but quite quickly realized he wasn't up to scratch and let him go in favour of (rightly or wrongly) giving Ayre added responsibilities. Cotton wasn't working as a contemporary PR guru and they went for Jen Chang instead. Whether those appointments and promotions will work long-term is yet to be determined. Personally based on his output over the last two years, I see Ayre as more someone whose talents are better utilized at selling the idea of the club to sponsors, rather than providing corporate leadership, identifying talents and engaging in the act of selling and buying commodities with the acumen of a Galliani at Milan. Jen Chang seems to have done more good in the last few months than Cotton did over the last few years.

Ideally, they will bring someone in who can provide that type of dynamic leadership and business sense in more of a traditional CEO role. I don't think it necessarily means it has to be someone with a CV littered football experience, as after all Rick Parry had some relative experience working in football circles before being hired and was at times notoriously inept and slow in signing players, whereas in Milan, Adriano Galliani was hired on the back of his business relationships with Berlusconi and his ability to be a tough negotiator when selling electronic components to Berlusconi's media companies, rather than on his disastrous time at lowly Monza. Since Galliani took over as CEO, they've won eight league titles, five European Cups (and appeared in a total of eight finals) and signed five players who would go on to win the Ballon d'Or at Milan (Gullit, Van Basten, Weah, Schevchenko and Kaka). But rather like any business, it has to be someone who can skillfully locate and coordinate the right people to assist them in executing beneficial business decisions and corporate strategies, whether they be related to transfers or providing leadership.

As Hij's in his excellent OP notes:

And maybe that's why we react so badly to the idea of taking a couple of seasons to really iron out the issues, because we've had a shite three years and not only that we're in 2012, where everything happens right now, right away, and there is no delay and we know it's going to hurt as we go through bad results and fall short, and don't get to where we want right away, but it's happened in the past and perhaps we need to grow some balls and stick with it and see how the managers vision develops.

 It's early doors, we need to see how each of the next three transfer windows develops, how the football on the pitch develops and buy into the project and make our analysis as we go, not after three games.

Stability and living within our means was something most people wanted during the dark days of Hicks and Gillett and near administration. To an extent this it what it looks like. I'd like to think it will improve, but won't be surprised if it isn't so immediate as hoped. Although there is no problem with being cautiously apprehensive towards the owners (and I believe most fans including myself are in that category, albeit with different degrees of rationality), patience is likely to be required in large dollops.
« Last Edit: September 4, 2012, 03:58:55 am by rafathegaffa83 »

Offline LiverBirdKop

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #330 on: September 4, 2012, 04:15:03 am »
As far as possible from the "Liverpool Way" as you can get there, mate.
I disagree. I didn't say star players left and right.....just a nice solid base. And what are PR statements and reality TV documentaries? The "Liverpool Way"?
« Last Edit: September 4, 2012, 04:16:48 am by LiverBirdKop »

Offline BFM

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #331 on: September 4, 2012, 04:16:02 am »
Brendan has my complete support the same as every single manager we've had in my lifetime. I don't owe any owners support. If they're not up to the job I want them out. This lot are different to the cancers, they simply saw us as a business they could flip for a profit, FSG just seem utterly incompetent.
Ok

Quote
As far as this 'lets see where we are after January' line goes, why should I buy it? Why should I sit back quietly in the hope that FSG finally get something right for us in terms of on the pitch success? This club is on the verge of becoming an also-ran, its taken a battering from years of piss-poor management at boardroom level, we should just wait and pray that FSG will suddenly turn it all around and start making the moves necessary  to halt our decline?
It's not a matter of buying it. It seems that they are aware of the fans' concerns. What's the alternative?

Quote
Well they won't. John Henry himself said he won't. We won't pull ourselves out of this mess without serious levels of investment both on the field and off the field. FSG either aren't willing or able to provide that investment, even if they were I doubt they'd know what to do it with it, so that is the end of it as far as I'm concerned.

FSG are hoping for a miracle, that we'll somehow be able to compete with clubs who have had years of concerted investment into their playing squads, while insisting we operate on a shoestring budget. I don't believe in miracles.
Not sure I agree. It's a question of timescale. Winning the league would require a miracle. But in 5 years? Not sure.
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Offline MolbyLovesGravlax

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #332 on: September 4, 2012, 05:24:31 am »
Buying young players for low fee/wages and developing them in the club ethos is fantastic until we start losing our best players every year who want to win stuff in the near future, and we then buy young players to develop in the club ethos and then the following year lose more players and we get in an Arsenal loop.
 
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Offline 88_RED

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #333 on: September 4, 2012, 06:00:50 am »
Mr Henry has stated fairly plainly that this is a five year plan. In fact I read somewhere him mention 15years. There is no doubt this is a very steep learning curve for the owners.

On top of that Liverpool Football Club is a very big ship to turn around. We were almost another Portsmouth financially, we have a huge fan base with high expectations, no Champions League football which impacts on players wanting to come here and finances, and players on high earning contracts who are at the twilight of their careers. Add to that complicated stadium issues and you might begin to see the magnitude of the problems which need to be resolved. They are not going to fixed over a few transfer windows and throwing a bit of cash around to keep fans happy.

Clearly, we need someone based in the City to be our Director with the power to make decisions and liase between the owners and our manager. We need to move forward on the stadium issue. There are good signs though which show we are heading in the right direction.

1. Our financial situation is much better than it was and we are spending what we earn.
2. Our commercial earnings are increasing
3. I think we have appointed a good manager. He knows what he wants but it will take time to change the culture and the squad to make it efficient. Again, mistakes will be made by management and by players along the way as they adjust to a new system.

My own view is that it will take this season and next before we start to really see what we are building. I think this season and next will see us around position 5-8 at seasons end. That's because players and contracts take time to resolve to get what you want, but the signs are there. Is anyone else thrilled at the performances of Joe Allen? Some of our play has been exciting and it's been some poor passing that has let us down, but I think players like Joe will be our future. Borini has a way to go, Assaldi we're yet to see, Sahin yet to settle, but they are in the mold of where we are heading. The managers willingness to play Sterling reinforces this. Our rate of advancement will probably depend on our ability to move players on that struggle with the system. Enrique, Kelly, Spearing, Downing?, dare I say Gerrard who was outperformed by Shelvey on Sunday. They all take up wages, they all need to be replaced and we need extra players to give squad depth. An enormous task.

We are yet to know how FFP will impact clubs but I am happy that we are taking it into consideration and will be in a good position if it starts to bite. My hope is that in 3-5 years time we will be back in CL, in a strong responsible financial position, attracting top players due to a long term vision and sensible financial stewardship. Just got to go through a bit of pain to get there.

One of my favourite quotes may be applicable here.

"You overestimate what you can achieve in one year but underestimate what you can achieve in 5 years".

THIS.. THIS.. THIS.. AGREE WITH EVERTHING..
F*CK 0FF Mourinho..

Offline subroc

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #334 on: September 4, 2012, 06:22:58 am »
The statement by Henry is a piece of PR doublespeak. The bottom line is that they are not willing to fund the club out of any money of their own and they do not trust the manager fully because of their bad experience with Dalglish and Comolli. As a direct result however, they have undermined Rodgers and probably fatally weakened the team for this season, thus causing their season to be lost even before its third game.

As a result of overly enthusiastic cost-cutting, the squad is so thin that it is one or two more serious injuries away from utter disaster. right now I have no idea where the goals are going to come from. Suarez is his usual erratic self when it comes to putting the ball into the net. Borini has not looked even close to scoring yet and s showing every sign of the "Jordan Henderson" inexperience syndrome. The lad is just not ready to be first team starter yet. Gerrard is almost unrecognisable from the player he used to be - his decline is marked and continuing, and he requires replacement or at least supplementation already as a first team starter. Bearing in mind that last season we had Carroll, Rodriguez and Kuyt and we stil ended up scoring so few goals.

What happens if Suarez is injured for a few months? Or if Sterling is crocked? We would be so messed up if that happens that even getting 8th may be a pipe dream by the time the transfer window opens again.

I truly fear for the club this season. Worse, I see no signs that the owners are learning from their incompetence and poor judgment.


Offline Passmaster Molby

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #335 on: September 4, 2012, 06:31:41 am »
I am getting a bit worried by what is happening at the club right now, and its clear everything is not well and not everyone is pulling in the same direction. That letter from JWH asks more questions than it answers and although it was a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" moment, I think it exposes weaknesses within the club.

FSG need to sort this shit out and make it clear to those within the club just what the plan is and make sure everyone is on board with it. That debacle surrounding Carroll/Dempsey and the conflict of information surrounding finances for transfers suggests communication really does need to be improved - and fucking fast!

Offline subroc

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #336 on: September 4, 2012, 06:38:26 am »
It is like I said earlier - they are the ones who entrusted Rodgers with the job because they thought he was the man to take the club forward. So give him the money he wants to do his job and get out o fhis way! Otherwise why appoint him only to second guess him later?! If they do that, they guarantee failure. If they continue to do this kind of overulling, they are even more incompetent than I think they are.

Offline 12Kings

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #337 on: September 4, 2012, 06:56:07 am »
I think where it all went wrong was loaning carrol out and not selling him. Now if they had sold him I have no doubt we would have had a new striker. Somone fucked up big time by sending him out on loan, how do we benefit from that at all? (somone fucked up big time there - ayre) This is also andy carrol, refusing to sign for west ham, still dreaming his beloved Newcastle would come and sweep him off his feet. No sympathy for a player who I heard spent alot of time moaning how much he disliked being in Liverpool.

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #338 on: September 4, 2012, 07:27:33 am »
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/michael-edwards/17/89b/478

Head of Analytics
Liverpool Football Club
Privately Held; 201-500 employees; Sports industry
November 2011 – Present (11 months)

Head of Performance Analysis
Tottenham Hotspur FC
Privately Held; 1001-5000 employees; Sports industry
November 2009 – October 2011 (2 years)

Head of Performance Analysis
Portsmouth FC
December 2003 – October 2009 (5 years 11 months)

Does his job involve putting numbers in an Excel sheet and pops pie charts out?


We have some weird job titles in that club: Head of opposition analysis, Match analysis assistant, Head of performance, Rehab fitness coach (Andy is gone, no alcohol problem at the club now :D)
01111001 01101111 01110101 00100111 01101100 01101100 00100000 01101110 01100101 01110110 01100101 01110010 00100000 01110111 01100001 01101100 01101011 00100000 01100001 01101100 01101111 01101110 01100101

Offline Trada

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #339 on: September 4, 2012, 07:30:26 am »
Liverpool owner John W Henry offers some laughable points with his letter to fans
By Henry Winter,

Dear Prudence, won’t you come out to play? Staying in harmony with the great traditions of Beatleville, John W Henry took a leaf out of John Lennon’s songwriting book.

 If Lennon’s hymn of homage was to Mia Farrow’s reclusive sister, Henry’s homily was a love letter to the similarly elusive soul of financial restraint.

Henry’s open missive to the Kop sought to justify the contentious actions of his Fenway Sports Group in the newly-closed transfer window.

Admirable in his intent, namely communicating with the club’s lifeblood, Henry provided a window on the owner-manager-player-supporter dynamic in the modern game.

Some of Henry’s observations defied belief. Others introduced some welcome perspective in the ‘Greed Is Good’ world of the Premier League.

His declaration was more than a parochial affair, a parish-pump natter about life within the Anfield village. Henry’s thoughts need absorbing by all within the middling and upper echelons of English football. He makes some credible points and some laughable ones.



The thrust of the letter, amusingly presented on the official Liverpool website with a picture of Henry reaching inside his jacket as if for his wallet, was that the club were ambitious, that their faith in an exciting young manager in Brendan Rodgers remained strong, that balancing the books was essential and their pursuit of the likes of Clint Dempsey failed because they were “unable to conclude acceptable deals’’ for strikers.

This is where Henry’s mix of Moneyball and Mr Micawber falters. What is “acceptable”? Is it so extravagant to pay Fulham an extra £1 million to land Dempsey, a player that Rodgers has chased all summer.

Henry should have scribbled his note to fans a week ago, asking them whether Dempsey, a proven Premier League attacker, was worth an extra £1 million. Er, yes.

The lament in a few Kopite quarters of their club being “built by Shanks, broken by Yanks” overlooks Fenway’s desire to run Liverpool as a business in keeping with Henry’s commitment to Financial Fair Play.

But there’s a balance between prudence and the need to spend to have even a chance of silverware. Buying players is not the appliance of exact science. It varies.

Henry, a slave to the Billy Beane philosophy of Moneyball so applicable to baseball not football, believes in recruiting young players with future resale value, a strategy that makes sense only if honourable exceptions are part of the rule.

Dempsey, an attacker experienced in the demands of the English game, would have hit the ground running.

Manchester United moved for another 29-year-old. Mr. Ferguson spent £24 million on Robin van Persie, four times the sum Fulham wanted for Dempsey, and the United manager has been rewarded with four goals in two starts. The Van Persie deal always made financial sense.

Never mind the till-busting takings in the Old Trafford megastore, just look at the rewards on the pitch.

Van Persie’s ready to roll, off-the-peg excellence, satisfaction guaranteed. Dempsey would also have delivered if less dramatically.

He would also have eased the workload on Luis Suarez, helped with the education of the hitherto unconvincing Fabio Borini and giving lessons to ingénues like Raheem Sterling.

Henry needs to slip the leash on his dogma and the question remains: who is advising Fenway on footballing matters?

It’s their club, their party but the feeling remains that Anfield is now filling behind the scenes with sharp commercial minds but lax footballing brains.

Take the new Warriors kit deal. It’s a handsomely renumerative package, north of £25 million a season, but the brash and weirdly-worded “We Come Not To Play” branding around Anfield is utterly at odds with Liverpool’s DNA.

Again, who is providing wise counsel to these moguls from over the pond?

Essentially, Henry and Tom Werner are good owners, albeit naive about the realpolitik of English football and missing a modern-day Peter Robinson, that much-respected chief executive of the club’s halcyon days.

Managers and star players listened to PBR and followed his advice (by and large). The incumbent, Ian Ayre, is not a leader.

Respect needs showing to Henry. His dispatch from Boston emphasised that he “valued the judgment” of Rodgers in re-shaping an imbalanced, inadequate squad.

So trust the manager. Bestow Rodgers with faith, patience, time and, please, appropriate funds.

Henry let Rodgers down over Dempsey, leaving him light in attack with Andy Carroll loaned to West Ham United. Liverpool’s wage-bill has ebbed and so has their potency.

Moneyball can really be a ruinous game at times. Do the maths. Dempsey would have more than paid his way.

Henry was obviously burned by past outlays. In a less than subtle dig, the belt-tightening American criticised Kenny Dalglish for overspending on players last year. Fair enough.

Dalglish’s signings undoubtedly failed. Andy Carroll remains the skirmish point in this battleground of beliefs.

For those of us at Upton Park on Saturday, Carroll reminded everyone of his usefulness on and off the ball. Yet one performance should not be used as a stick with which to beat Rodgers.

It’s the owners who have something to prove. Ditto the players.

Experienced internationals like Martin Skrtel, Steven Gerrard, Glen Johnson and Pepe Reina have all erred this season. So responsibility lies all around Anfield.

A need for honesty too. Henry spoke of Fenway as models of altruism in their involvement with Liverpool. Henry is a man of integrity but he is also a businessman.

Liverpool are a global sporting brand, a great family fallen on hard times. So Henry senses an opportunity. Invest shrewdly, get the giant back on its feet, and it’s fistfuls of dollars all round.

That’s the way of the world but don’t go kidding people.

Henry also stretched the bounds of credibility by claiming that “we have no fear of spending and competing with the very best”. Nonsense.

Liverpool cannot compete with the very best. They are a mid-table team. Their history is inspiring, but others have disappeared over the horizon.

Liverpool’s fan-base is loyal and passionate but they need to cash some reality-checks, let alone some real cheques.

Sorry Prudence.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9518913/Liverpool-owner-John-W-Henry-offers-some-laughable-points-with-his-letter-to-fans.html#

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Offline No666

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #340 on: September 4, 2012, 07:49:37 am »
Mr Henry has stated fairly plainly that this is a five year plan. In fact I read somewhere him mention 15years.

I would be very interested if you could identify (ie source) a quote mentioning 15 years.

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #341 on: September 4, 2012, 07:55:10 am »
we all knew this was gonna take time and yet still some supporters expect miracles,this club has been left in the shit by H+G,Hodgsons signings and Kenny and Comollis signings,i still trust FSG and Rodgers to sort this mess out

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #342 on: September 4, 2012, 08:00:44 am »
I would be very interested if you could identify (ie source) a quote mentioning 15 years.

It's actually 16 years. From his open letter -
"The transfer window may not have been perfect but we are not just looking at the next 16 weeks until we can buy again: we are looking at the next 16 years and beyond."

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #343 on: September 4, 2012, 08:01:24 am »
I wouldn't say no to a sugar daddy, I couldn't care less where the money comes from.

The financial side of the game has changed, if we want to play a meaningful part in that game we have a hell of a lot of ground to make up and that needs money. To expect us to compete with the likes of the Manc clubs and Chelsea while they're reaping the benefits of massive investment over many years is ludicrous.

No club has managed to win the league in English football in the last 20 years without significant investment into its playing squad. Fact.

I don't care about Arsenal, Spurs or Newcastle.

What you are distressed about is actually the fate of modern football. Our club's precarious position demonstrates all that has been going wrong with football since the early 90s.

Unless FFP actually works and is applied ruthlessly, there is no way to win titles in the modern game (in England at least, but increasingly elsewhere) without a sugar daddy willing to flush away huge amounts of money. If FFP works and is applied ruthlessly, clubs run the way FSG hopes we will be run may once again have a chance.

Football is fundamentally broken. Liverpool's fate demonstrates this perfectly and one hopes that the powers that be understand the lesson being suffered by us. However, the only way forward is the rather tentative hope that FFP works, and that our owners' business plan then puts us in a strong position.

If one holds the opinion that FFP is a sham, then best to leave football right away. (Or, as I find myself doing, being mildly interested and amused at the shenanigans rather than passionately involved. FSG helped me with that part of my mental sanity too, by firing Kenny and ensuring I didn't have to care any more).
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Offline Visigoth33

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #344 on: September 4, 2012, 08:06:11 am »
I'm just curious as to who they are getting advice from since they admitted knowing nothing about football.and how on earth are they going to make the right footballing decisions when they refuse to appoint a CEO/dof or someone who actually knows what they are doing(segura or tixi could have helped).fsg really shot themselves on the foot here, so now they have to deal with the mess in both red sox and us.

Offline MolbyLovesGravlax

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #345 on: September 4, 2012, 08:06:31 am »
If we continue to struggle to score what happens in January? Does Rodgers have to buy 'young potential with sell on fee possibility' who we will have no guarantee will actually solve our problem or do we do a 180 and go out for a proven goalscorer even if he is older and would demand high wages? And of course every club in the world will know how mindblowingly desperate we are and suddenly we are being quoted 5 or 10 million over the max the player is worth.
I fully expect us to end up with someone who makes less financial sense than Dempsey would have and it will be another lesson for FSG to learn from.
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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #346 on: September 4, 2012, 08:10:01 am »
Henry Winters a massive, massive twat. Oh how I love the whole "premiership proven and will hit the ground running" fucking shit that he's spewing along with the "Dempsey and Van Persie, there's not much difference".

He's utter c*nt of a journo who's word is about as good as that of Harry Redknapp when he's start a sentence with "well obviously he's triffic..."
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Offline No666

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #347 on: September 4, 2012, 08:11:02 am »
It's actually 16 years. From his open letter -
"The transfer window may not have been perfect but we are not just looking at the next 16 weeks until we can buy again: we are looking at the next 16 years and beyond."

Ah - I have that one down on the 'not to be taken too seriously' list: it's merely hinting at the long-term but the actual time scale mentioned is not because it states methodology but because it offers rhetorical symmetry.

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #348 on: September 4, 2012, 08:11:39 am »
I notice their principles only seem to matter when they're being used to prevent money spent... We're hardly targeting the world's top youngsters are we?

Things is, they don't want young players,  they want cheap young players whose value can be recouped. Big fucking difference. There are many cheap players and many young ones, very few fall into both categories.

Are you forgetting or just deliberately ignoring the signings of Borini and Allen?

I wouldn't regard £10 million for a 21 year old and £15m for 22 year old as "cheap".

And we aren't targeting the world's top youngsters because it would be a rather pointless exercise.
We can't afford them - this isn't a case of penny-pinching by our owners. Their valuations are way outside what we can afford - we don't have 30m-40m lying around.
And even if we did have the ability to match the offers of other clubs - it wouldn't make much difference. We don't have CL football. We've finished out side the Top 5 three years in a row.
For the world's top youngsters, we are not a great prospect. That is the reality of the situation.

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #349 on: September 4, 2012, 08:19:06 am »

Liverpool owner John W Henry offers some laughable points with his letter to fans
By Henry Winter,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9518913/Liverpool-owner-John-W-Henry-offers-some-laughable-points-with-his-letter-to-fans.html#


One or two half-decent points lost amongst the plethora of snide digs and nonsense that is to be expected from Winter.

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #350 on: September 4, 2012, 08:19:40 am »
I don't understand how these FSG guys can be so horrible at PR. They've got the documentary coming out in a couple weeks and you'd think they wouldn't want people watching and going "this team doesn't even look like scoring and they're miles off whatever they're trying to do." Would you?

They spend all this money, moneyball movie and book gets loads of press and they're on the cover of Sports Illustrated saying they've got the computer system and they have the money so they are going to run the show. They have just blown up their baseball team as they sit at the bottom of their standings after a wasted season.

Ian fucking Ayre is a nightmare of a football man as he continues to prove.

They fuck up the transfer dealings as it could have been sorted out what they needed much earlier and ignored transfer deadline day.

They look clueless and this letter is just insulting. Them spending all that money last season looks like it was meant to appease the fans and in hindsight that looks insulting.

I understand that we need to right the ship financially, but if we don't score (which we didn't last season either, already existing problem) then we will not be competitive. I'm not the supporter that wants them to spend 15 million on Sturridge or whatever amount of money on any player, but a poacher from Holland, France or Portugal wouldn't have set the team back too far. I'd like to know who is in charge here, where is the plan B? Did we only target Dempsey and Sturridge?

Where we at with the stadium John? Enough moaning about FFP, where's the "outside the box" idea's to bring the club forward? You think 16 years ahead, we'll look towards the weekend. Who is going to score a goal?

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #351 on: September 4, 2012, 08:21:03 am »
Rjh, that is exactly why we should be targeting players of a good standard whenever we can get them even if they're a little older. We can't attract top class youngsters nor can we afford them so our master plan is flawed. It's an excuse to avoid spending and will leave us recruiting players that other teams have passed on, how can we possibly improve that way?

Borini and Allen are unique in that they are ex-Rodgers players but also in that we had little competition to sign them. Are Swansea players our target level? Is it acceptable to emulate a team that will be happy to avoid relegation?

We can't afford top, young players so when a player like Dempsey wants to come here for 6 fucking million we should say yes please and sign the cheque.

Oh and while we were ducking around counting pennies Everton of all teams signed a 24 year old who scored over 30 goals last season for 6 million. If we're so obsessed with this youth signing policy why are our skint neigh ours doing better at it than we are!

« Last Edit: September 4, 2012, 08:27:47 am by Cid »

Offline mat106

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #352 on: September 4, 2012, 08:26:20 am »
Henry Winters a massive, massive twat. Oh how I love the whole "premiership proven and will hit the ground running" fucking shit that he's spewing along with the "Dempsey and Van Persie, there's not much difference".

He's utter c*nt of a journo who's word is about as good as that of Harry Redknapp when he's start a sentence with "well obviously he's triffic..."

Yes yes he's a massive cretin and in the midst of the biassed bu!!£hit he makes a few points that reveal the painful reality of where we are at. We do have to accept we have evolved into a mid table club which can no longer compete with the best. And he's right when he states that some of Henry's statements in the letter are absolutely laughable...a refusal to stump up £1 mill for a player that the manager has wanted all summer to make a point? FSG are not our saviours, just the best bidders at a particular point in time.

Offline kermit^^

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #353 on: September 4, 2012, 08:36:48 am »
Maybe the TV show should be renamed NOT Being Liverpool

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #354 on: September 4, 2012, 08:38:02 am »
Ah - I have that one down on the 'not to be taken too seriously' list: it's merely hinting at the long-term but the actual time scale mentioned is not because it states methodology but because it offers rhetorical symmetry.

Arts student eh?
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Offline harleydanger

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #355 on: September 4, 2012, 08:40:22 am »
Rjh, that is exactly why we should be targeting players of a good standard whenever we can get them even if they're a little older. We can't attract top class youngsters nor can we afford them so our master plan is flawed. It's an excuse to avoid spending and will leave us recruiting players that other teams have passed on, how can we possibly improve that way?

Borini and Allen are unique in that they are ex-Rodgers players but also in that we had little competition to sign them. Are Swansea players our target level? Is it acceptable to emulate a team that will be happy to avoid relegation?

We can't afford top, young players so when a player like Dempsey wants to come here for 6 fucking million we should say yes please and sign the cheque.

Oh and while we were ducking around counting pennies Everton of all teams signed a 24 year old who scored over 30 goals last season for 6 million. If we're so obsessed with this youth signing policy why are our skint neigh ours doing better at it than we are!



You say we're idiots for buying swansea level players then in the same breath lambast the club for not buying a player from Fulham.
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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #356 on: September 4, 2012, 08:43:33 am »
Arts student eh?

 :) Student? A long time ago, mate.

Offline peachybum

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #357 on: September 4, 2012, 08:44:59 am »

Oh and while we were ducking around counting pennies Everton of all teams signed a 24 year old who scored over 30 goals last season for 6 million. If we're so obsessed with this youth signing policy why are our skint neigh ours doing better at it than we are!

And how did they fund that move? They sold a player to Man City for £15m. We had that choice. We could have sold Agger to City and spent £20m+ on young quality talent to fill out our squad and be much stronger today. But from what i remember everyone was against selling one of our best players to provide funds for the manager despite Arsenal, Spurs and Everton doing it this season(and pretty much every season).
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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #358 on: September 4, 2012, 08:51:10 am »
.

So based on personal experience, prejudice and no evidence. Can you stick to the facts as they relate to the specific case of Liverpool and FSG?
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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #359 on: September 4, 2012, 08:54:25 am »
And how did they fund that move? They sold a player to Man City for £15m. We had that choice. We could have sold Agger to City and spent £20m+ on young quality talent to fill out our squad and be much stronger today. But from what i remember everyone was against selling one of our best players to provide funds for the manager despite Arsenal, Spurs and Everton doing it this season(and pretty much every season).
Arsenal do it to balance the books, and somehow keep finishing top 4 with 0 spending and frequent profits in the market. Our real chance was when Torres Left and Babel left. 55m to rebuild initially.22 m used well. Rest wasted. Then the summer with meireles, n'gog, insua sold and the 35m from the owners, another 55 m to finish the rebuilding, in come Downing, Adam and Henderson.

The next chance we'll get is prb when Suarez gets sick of finishing 8th, walks and gives us 35 odd m hopefully. Hopefully we can buy 2-3 good quality starting 11 players with that, instead of incompetently wasting the cash on English dross.
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