Topic: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield

[CraigDS]

If they are going to start this summer, wouldn't some pictures how it's gonna look be in order?

Not until the land has been acquired by the LCC which makes it possible. Which it hasn't yet.

Not to mention it won't be started this summer anyway.

[gazzalfc]

If they are going to start this summer, wouldn't some pictures how it's gonna look be in order?

There are so many hoops still left to go through before we get to that point. Property still needs to be acquired, planning permission (assuming it doesn't get called in by the government) needs to be submitted and accepted etc.

No need to raise expectations and promise anything at this stage. The club seem to be going through a 'It will be ready when its ready' stance rather than a 'spade in the ground in 60 days' (and rightly so).

Anyone foresee any problems in property acquisition? Obviously the boarded up properties all fall under Liverpool council and Your Housing Association so would fall under the Anfield (the area not the stadium) regeneration. But are there properties that are owned outright in the area? I'm guessing you cant just force them out onto the street or re-house. You would hope that there is some money set aside to ensure that these people get a fair price for their troubles

[CraigDS]

I think their needs to be 8 or so properties purchased, could be less now as I know a few have been moved out of recently. Of these I think only 3 (or could be 5, not sure which way round off the top of my head) are owner lived in.

I know offers have been put forward, and I know of at least one owner/occupier is kicking up a fuss but if this is just to push up the end price or if this is due to actually disputing this I do no know.

[Nessy76]

There's been a lot of discussion about this, as this is a regeneration area, the council are able to make compulsory purchase orders on houses which are due to be demolished as part of the plan.

The law limits how much they can offer, so anyone playing hardball might well end up losing a lot of money if it goes down that route.

[gazzalfc]

I think their needs to be 8 or so properties purchased, could be less now as I know a few have been moved out of recently. Of these I think only 3 (or could be 5, not sure which way round off the top of my head) are owner lived in.

I know offers have been put forward, and I know of at least one owner/occupier is kicking up a fuss but if this is just to push up the end price or if this is due to actually disputing this I do no know.

Cheers for that. Just interested to see how hard the battle will be from the clubs side. I remember when Edge lane was getting done up and there was an old woman who dragged her heels for years.

I bet that one guy is probably an Evertonian

There's been a lot of discussion about this, as this is a regeneration area, the council are able to make compulsory purchase orders on houses which are due to be demolished as part of the plan.

The law limits how much they can offer, so anyone playing hardball might well end up losing a lot of money if it goes down that route.

Didn't know compulsory purchase orders applied to owned land (land without debt or mortgage etc).

I just hope that anyone affected gets a fair price for re-housing.

[CraigDS]

I don't think the council are going down the CPO route just yet, more trying to do it amicably.

[Nessy76]

Didn't know compulsory purchase orders applied to owned land (land without debt or mortgage etc).

I just hope that anyone affected gets a fair price for re-housing.

As Craig says, the council haven't gone down that route yet, but they could potentially issue CPOs on any property affected. The offer at the moment is quite generous, as I understand.

[Eeyore]

As Craig says, the council haven't gone down that route yet, but they could potentially issue CPOs on any property affected. The offer at the moment is quite generous, as I understand.

Would they be able to issue CPO's though for residential properties to facilitate a private redevelopment of a Football Stadium.

[Snaily]

i think the answer is yes as the stadium redevelopment comes under the umbrella of the Anfield Regeneration.  if it was purely private on LFC's behalf then no.

[Nessy76]

i think the answer is yes as the stadium redevelopment comes under the umbrella of the Anfield Regeneration.  if it was purely private on LFC's behalf then no.

Yes, I think that's the long and short of it. Did a fair amount of digging on this a few months back. The plan for the Anfield area includes demolition of various properties near to the stadium, and would have done so even if the Stanley Park stadium was still going to be built.

[Eeyore]

Yes, I think that's the long and short of it. Did a fair amount of digging on this a few months back. The plan for the Anfield area includes demolition of various properties near to the stadium, and would have done so even if the Stanley Park stadium was still going to be built.

The council doesn't have the funding in place to fund the regeneration though and without that I can't see how you could issue CPO's.

[CraigDS]

The council doesn't have the funding in place to fund the regeneration though and without that I can't see how you could issue CPO's.

They aren't issuing CPO's.

[macca888]

Would they be able to issue CPO's though for residential properties to facilitate a private redevelopment of a Football Stadium.

Al, before you carry on down this road, Doc Brown and Marty McFly has just been on the blower. He reckons if you keep on re-posting the same things you said on page 43 and 44 of this thread on page 48 and they ever meet, it's going to disrupt the space time continuum and the thread will disappear. Or Biff Tannen will own the club.   

[Nessy76]

The council doesn't have the funding in place to fund the regeneration though and without that I can't see how you could issue CPO's.

And?

[Alan_X]

A pedant writes: Orwell didn't paint any pictures about the future. He satirised the present to warn about the perils of totalitarianism (eg Animal Farm and 1984). 1984 was a commentary on the the rise of the Soviet empire in the post-war years where the people were subjugated by a ruling elite in a one-party state where no dissent would be tolerated. He merely reversed the last two digits of 1948, when all this was already taking place, to give the book its title

It was about the worship of power and managerialism. Animal Farm is about Russia, 1984 is an extrapolation of Britain in the post-war years. Most of the scenes are set in Britain, the canteen is the BBC canteen and Room 101 is a room at the BBC (now demolished). The idea of Goldstein's Book is based on James Burnham's "The Managerial Revolution" about which Orwell wrote an essay. 1984 is about Managerialism - the convergence of Communism, National Socialism and New-Deal policies - not the Soviet Empire.

[DaveCharlie]

It was about the worship of power and managerialism. Animal Farm is about Russia, 1984 is an extrapolation of Britain in the post-war years. Most of the scenes are set in Britain, the canteen is the BBC canteen and Room 101 is a room at the BBC (now demolished). The idea of Goldstein's Book is based on James Burnham's "The Managerial Revolution" about which Orwell wrote an essay. 1984 is about Managerialism - the convergence of Communism, National Socialism and New-Deal policies - not the Soviet Empire.

This conversation can't get much more off topic, but still a quality post.

Back on topic, I'm curious to know where exactly the 8 properties required are (which side/corner of the stadium) - I assume it is behind the Main Stand and towards the Anny Road End (i.e. near the Shankly gates)?

[CraigDS]

This conversation can't get much more off topic, but still a quality post.

Back on topic, I'm curious to know where exactly the 8 properties required are (which side/corner of the stadium) - I assume it is behind the Main Stand and towards the Anny Road End (i.e. near the Shankly gates)?

They are all on Lothair Rd. If you go and walk down the street they'll be the 8 not boarded up!

[DaveCharlie]

They are all on Lothair Rd. If you go and walk down the street they'll be the 8 not boarded up!

Thought so, except they all seemed boarded up last I walked down Lothair Rd. How recent is the info on there being 8 - is it possible there's been further progress?

[CraigDS]

Thought so, except they all seemed boarded up last I walked down Lothair Rd. How recent is the info on there being 8 - is it possible there's been further progress?

Possibly could of been some, but their are definitely some still occupied I know that for sure.

[macca888]

Possibly could of been some, but their are definitely some still occupied I know that for sure.

I'm sure my mate told me last week that 2 of them had been sold, but he didn't say whether they'd been boarded up. He seems to think they went to a private company though, so he was wondering whether they're buying them up and hoping to make a quick profit, or whether they've got some affiliation with the club. 

Anyway, there's definitely at least 6 still there that need to be bought.

[CraigDS]

I'm sure my mate told me last week that 2 of them had been sold, but he didn't say whether they'd been boarded up. He seems to think they went to a private company though, so he was wondering whether they're buying them up and hoping to make a quick profit, or whether they've got some affiliation with the club. 

Anyway, there's definitely at least 6 still there that need to be bought.

Could of been Your Housing maybe?

Has your mate said anything about increased offers since the last one he had (when was that now?) or has it all gone quiet?

[macca888]

Could of been Your Housing maybe?

Has your mate said anything about increased offers since the last one he had (when was that now?) or has it all gone quiet?

He hasn't yet Craig. Last week when I spoke to him, he'd been on the phone to the people who'd done the valuation. It's been weeks since they did it now and even though he's given them sale prices from similar houses in the area that were significantly higher than their valuations, he's not heard a great deal from them with regards to revaluing the house. The other thing I know is that he's getting really pissed off whenever he hears Ian Ayre saying things like "there's been significant progress" when they haven't at least made a formal offer to the owners. In my mate's words "How can that little fucking prick be telling The Echo its all hunky dory with the redevelopment and things are going well with the property purchases when he can't cross over the road and knock on my fucking door? I can't even give my tenant an eviction notice until I know when I need her gone by." He knows he's selling up and he can't wait, but between finding out what the club wanted to do and now, no formal offer has yet been made, and to be honest that's very poor from the club.

[CraigDS]

It isn't the club dealing with purchasing the houses though, it's LCC. So technically no one at the club should be contacting your mate to discuss that at all.

[macca888]

It isn't the club dealing with purchasing the houses though, it's LCC. So technically no one at the club should be contacting your mate to discuss that at all.

I know what you mean, and technically you're correct. In which case Ayre should keep his mouth shut, because I know a few of them are seeing their arse with him saying it. If he doesn't know how the negotiations are progressing (and actually there are no negotiations and no offers at present) he shouldn't be giving interviews saying everything is rosy in the garden. If LFC have got nothing to do with the negotiations, they shouldn't be privy to any information concerning it then. I'm just saying from the owners point of view, next time he does it, one of them is going to make a complaint. I know there are only a few of them ( plus some in Alroy that are needed for the hotel) but he's making no friends with any of them.

[Nessy76]

I know what you mean, and technically you're correct. In which case Ayre should keep his mouth shut, because I know a few of them are seeing their arse with him saying it. If he doesn't know how the negotiations are progressing (and actually there are no negotiations and no offers at present) he shouldn't be giving interviews saying everything is rosy in the garden. If LFC have got nothing to do with the negotiations, they shouldn't be privy to any information concerning it then. I'm just saying from the owners point of view, next time he does it, one of them is going to make a complaint. I know there are only a few of them ( plus some in Alroy that are needed for the hotel) but he's making no friends with any of them.

They haven't exactly been friendly to him, have they? LFC has been trying to buy those houses for decades!

[macca888]

They haven't exactly been friendly to him, have they? LFC has been trying to buy those houses for decades!

Absolutely not true. My mate has owned a house in Lothair Road for nearly 20 years and this is the first time he's ever been approached about a sale. Since 1995, 19 purchase of houses have been made in Lothair Road (although some have been the same house selling a number of times0. So if they were trying to buy the properties, they've had ample opportunities to acquire most of them.

[Peter McGurk]

The council doesn't have the funding in place to fund the regeneration though and without that I can't see how you could issue CPO's.

The funds for regeneration are no doubt coming from the government "HMR Transition Fund". CPOs could be used to get a public housing scheme going but can do nothing whatsoever for a private business per se.

The offers will be more than market value plus 10% and other expenses. Market value has to be determined on a 'no scheme' basis ie., as they stand. If residents do not accept the valuation, Council could exercise CPOs and the residents would get less.

[Eeyore]

The funds for regeneration are no doubt coming from the government "HMR Transition Fund". CPOs could be used to get a public housing scheme going but can do nothing whatsoever for a private business per se.

The offers will be more than market value plus 10% and other expenses. Market value has to be determined on a 'no scheme' basis ie., as they stand. If residents do not accept the valuation, Council could exercise CPOs and the residents would get less.

Wasn't the 10m hmri transition fund application only for phases 3 to 5 of the regeneration project and hasn't that money been spent though Peter. Even if it hasn't 6 and 7 dont meet the criteria.   http://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/archive/9547-council-bids-for-10m-hmr-transition-funding.html

[Peter McGurk]

Wasn't the 10m hmri transition fund application only for phases 3 to 5 of the regeneration project and hasn't that money been spent though Peter. Even if it hasn't 6 and 7 dont meet the criteria.   http://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/archive/9547-council-bids-for-10m-hmr-transition-funding.html

Empty Homes Fund... http://www.planningresource.co.uk/go/home/article/1154795/liverpool-fc-pledges-stay-anfield/

The Rockfield Triangle wasn't in phases 6 or 7 or any phase of HMRI whatever the criteria. In fact prior to this council, it was nowhere.

[Eeyore]

Empty Homes Fund... http://www.planningresource.co.uk/go/home/article/1154795/liverpool-fc-pledges-stay-anfield/

The Rockfield Triangle wasn't in phases 6 or 7 or any phase of HMRI whatever the criteria. In fact prior to this council, it was nowhere.

The HMRI transition fund could only be used for areas that had received extensive HMRI funding and they specifically prohibited councils from extending into new areas of demolition so that is out.

As for the empty homes Fund isn't that for putting empty houses back into use the exact opposite of demolishing houses that are currently occupied which is what the council is proposing for Lothair Rd.

So what other funding would be available Peter?

[Peter McGurk]

The HMRI transition fund could only be used for areas that had received extensive HMRI funding and they specifically prohibited councils from extending into new areas of demolition so that is out.

As for the empty homes Fund isn't that for putting empty houses back into use the exact opposite of demolishing houses that are currently occupied which is what the council is proposing for Lothair Rd.

So what other funding would be available Peter?

Just listening to Nina Edge from WSHG http://www.citytalk.fm/on-air/city-talks-politics/...

Even the campaigns for the likes of Welsh Streets recognise that not all houses can be kept  - whatever the source of funds. The WSHG schemes include various levels of demolition.

Such is the case for the houses in Lothair Road. In summary, the houses there are too big and too far gone to do up and put back on the market at prices that people in the area could afford.

So the Empty Homes Fund would be it.

[Eeyore]

Just listening to Nina Edge from WSHG http://www.citytalk.fm/on-air/city-talks-politics/...

Even the campaigns for the likes of Welsh Streets recognise that not all houses can be kept  - whatever the source of funds. The WSHG schemes include various levels of demolition.

Such is the case for the houses in Lothair Road. In summary, the houses there are too big and too far gone to do up and put back on the market at prices that people in the area could afford.

So the Empty Homes Fund would be it.

To qualify for Empty Homes Funding properties need to of been empty for a significant period usually two years and they have to be put back into use for affordable Housing.  The Welsh streets are different they were in an original HMRI area so meet the Criteria for the HMRI transition fund.



These are the areas included in the City Council's £10m application for HMRI transition funding.

Anfield Breckfield – Phases 3-5
Easby Estate – Phases 1-5
Welsh Streets – Phases 1 and 2
Edge Hill – Phases 1-3
Picton – Phases 1-3

[Peter McGurk]

To qualify for Empty Homes Funding properties need to of been empty for a significant period usually two years and they have to be put back into use for affordable Housing.  The Welsh streets are different they were in an original HMRI area so meet the Criteria for the HMRI transition fund.



These are the areas included in the City Council's £10m application for HMRI transition funding.

Anfield Breckfield – Phases 3-5
Easby Estate – Phases 1-5
Welsh Streets – Phases 1 and 2
Edge Hill – Phases 1-3
Picton – Phases 1-3

It is not HMR Transition funds in the Rockfield Triangle but the principle is the same - bringing those houses that can be brought back into use, back into use.

And I am sure the scheme would not be funded, as any scheme would not be funded, on a house by house basis. On that basis it would not meet the aim of area regeneration (or create a viable community).

Reviewing the council proposals, it’s clear that taken overall and as a scheme, the Rockfield Triangle is being brought back into occupation as affordable housing and would be funded on that basis. As far as I can see, the 'scheme' even includes the houses in Tancred Road which are already refurbished. You have to look at the area as a whole.

[Eeyore]

It is not HMR Transition funds in the Rockfield Triangle but the principle is the same - bringing those houses that can be brought back into use, back into use.

And I am sure the scheme would not be funded, as any scheme would not be funded, on a house by house basis. On that basis it would not meet the aim of area regeneration (or create a viable community).

Reviewing the council proposals, it’s clear that taken overall and as a scheme, the Rockfield Triangle is being brought back into occupation and would be funded on that basis. As far as I can see, the 'scheme' even includes the houses in Tancred Road which are already refurbished. You have to look at the area as a whole.

It is a specific fund that can only be used to bring empty houses back into use for affordable housing. It cannot be used to do the opposite and to knock down occupied houses. Which brings us back to what David Conn said about public funds being used to facilitate a private Stadium expansion.

At a time of savage cuts what money is lcc using to purchase and demolish currently occupied houses?

The council is tonight proposing to make £32m of cuts whilst at the same time looking at  purchasing and knocking down houses.

[Peter McGurk]

It is a specific fund that can only be used to bring empty houses back into use for affordable housing. It cannot be used to do the opposite and to knock down occupied houses. Which brings us back to what David Conn said about public funds being used to facilitate a private Stadium expansion.

At a time of savage cuts what money is lcc using to purchase and demolish currently occupied houses?

The council is tonight proposing to make £32m of cuts whilst at the same time looking at  purchasing and knocking down houses.

The aim of the funds is not so black and white as to say that EVERY house must be kept and this is recognised by those who campaign against demolition.

It would be absolutely senseless to refurbish a house that could not be lived in because no-one can afford it. That used to happen with HMRI but no longer. The cost of refurbishments at Tancred Road was at least initially MORE than people paid for them. Wholly unsustainable.

If action on the houses in the Rockfield Triangle is wanted and it is, that principle must be accepted or else they can slowly turn to dust over the next few decades - as they have been for the last few decades.

David Conn has demonstrated about as much knowledge of the housing situation in Anfield or the mechanics of the regeneration of the Rockfield Triangle as our cat.  The financial viability of the regeneration of the area is entirely dependent on the housing economics and has nothing to do with stadium or the club beyond council may or may not having to pay for the LFC properties before they are bulldozed. As ever he writes what his paper's readers want to read.

[Eeyore]

The aim of the funds is not so black and white as to say that EVERY house must be kept and this is recognised by those who campaign against demolition.

It would be absolutely senseless to refurbish a house that could not be lived in because no-one can afford it. That used to happen with HMRI but no longer. The cost of refurbishments at Tancred Road was at least initially MORE than people paid for them. Wholly unsustainable.

If action on the houses in the Rockfield Triangle is wanted and it is, that principle must be accepted or else they can slowly turn to dust over the next few decades - as they have been for the last few decades.

David Conn has demonstrated about as much knowledge of the housing situation in Anfield or the mechanics of the regeneration of the Rockfield Triangle as our cat.  The financial viability of the regeneration of the area is entirely dependent on the housing economics and has nothing to do with stadium or the club beyond council may or may not having to pay for the LFC properties before they are bulldozed. As ever he writes what his paper's readers want to read.

The aims of the Empty Homes fund are crystal clear it is a £300m fund that aims to turn at least 3,300 and upto 5,000 empty houses back into habitable affordable houses. There are no grey areas whatsoever, the money can only be used to refurbish empty houses, it cannot under any circumstances be used to buy and demolish houses. LCC has gone for the maximum single funding of £30m and every single penny of that money can only be used on bringing empty properties back into use.

The occupied houses in Lothair Rd have never been part of either the initial HMRI or the HMRI transition scheme and do not qualify for the Empty homes fund so where is the money coming from to buy and demolish them.?

[Peter McGurk]

The aims of the Empty Homes fund are crystal clear it is a £300m fund that aims to turn at least 3,300 and upto 5,000 empty houses back into habitable affordable houses. There are no grey areas whatsoever, the money can only be used to refurbish empty houses, it cannot under any circumstances be used to buy and demolish houses. LCC has gone for the maximum single funding of £30m and every single penny of that money can only be used on bringing empty properties back into use.

The occupied houses in Lothair Rd have never been part of either the initial HMRI or the HMRI transition scheme and do not qualify for the Empty homes fund so where is the money coming from to buy and demolish them.?

Since you won't accept that it is the funding as publicly stated, I imagine you are suggesting that someone is telling porkie pies for which you apparently have no substantiation.

[Eeyore]

Since you won't accept that it is the funding as publicly stated, I imagine you are suggesting that someone is telling porkie pies for which you apparently have no substantiation.

Where have they publicly stated that they have funding to purchase and demolish the houses in Lothair Rd. ?

[Peter McGurk]

Where have they publicly stated that they have funding to purchase and demolish the houses in Lothair Rd. ?

I could spend the rest of the afternoon digging out the press release but I won't, so this as posted just above will have to do for now...

Empty Homes Fund... http://www.planningresource.co.uk/go/home/article/1154795/liverpool-fc-pledges-stay-anfield/

The Rockfield Triangle wasn't in phases 6 or 7 or any phase of HMRI whatever the criteria. In fact prior to this council, it was nowhere.

[Eeyore]

I could spend the rest of the afternoon digging out the press release but I won't, so this as posted just above will have to do for now...

The council has received £10m in funding from the Empty homes fund Peter and this is how it is being spent.

http://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/archive/12946-empty-homes-funding-focuses-on-anfield.html

Work is now underway on the £36m 'Anfield Village' and Rockfield housing schemes. The work includes the refurbishment of 562 properties previously earmarked for demolition, 156 of which are vacant. Around £10m from the Clusters of Empty Homes Fund has been allocated to the scheme, with the remainder coming from the city council and registered providers owning properties in the area, predominantly Your Housing Group.

10m for the refurb of 156 houses which is £64,103 per house which is in the ball park of the aims of the Empty homes fund which is £300m for 5000 houses which is £60,000 per house.