Topic: Jay Spearing- Better Late than Never

[leivapool]

He's a Lucas hater, many posts of his that you could give his response back to him.

Now that is a really good idea, Thanks!!!

[smig]

Am I the only one who would rather Maxi partnered Lucas than Jay in CM, a bit like Aurelio did earlier in the season?  Maxi is an OK tackler, certainly no worse than Jay, is a much better passer, and is always availableto recieve the pass.  He also links well with Lucas, Meireles and Suarez.

Something like this


                Lucas

Meireles            Maxi

That trio is laughably lightweight. Spearing may be small in stature, but he'll get stuck in and will ensure that we won't get bullied in an area where we have been far too often this season. Maxi needs to go in the summer, and he certainly isn't a central midfielder. Raul's a quality player, but his constant fannying out of challenges drives me nuts at times!

[Vidocq]

playing football?

spearing needs to reassess what role he wants to play. He hardly tackles, he sometimes passes, he mostly just points and covers intercepting passes. He hardly follows runners (note hardly he has done it before), he needs to decide which position in the team he wants to compete for. Does he really want to compete with Meireles, Gerrard and possibly Adam and Aquilani for a central midfield role (not forgetting Jonjo) or does he want to redefine himself and decide to compete with Lucas. He needs to learn from Lucas and fight for that defensive midfield role. I can't see him making a career as a central midfielder at all at the top level.

i dont want to make Spearing the next Zidane,but he have some qualities...movement,speed,pass

statistics against WBA

passes: all 46, unsuccessful 9

tackles: all 4, lost 1

interceptions: 2

clearances: 1

blocks: 1

free kicks won: 2

 better statistics than Lucas

[Liverbird 2010]

Show where I have given any indication that I hate him?  Not rating his is not hating him is it?

If someone disagrees with you about Lucas you say they are haters is it not the same thing?

[new-red]

i dont want to make Spearing the next Zidane,but he have some qualities...movement,speed,pass

statistics against WBA

passes: all 46, unsuccessful 9

tackles: all 4, lost 1

interceptions: 2

clearances: 1

blocks: 1

free kicks won: 2

 better statistics than Lucas

Lucas' stats

38 passes, 34 completed.

5 interceptions

6 tackles, 3 won

1 clearance

0 blocks

0 free kicks won, 1 conceded.

So after actually looking at Lucas' stats I have to question whether you really believe that. Clearly you don't value statistics because you wouldn't have posted something like this to prove a point.

[kopitecrash]

interesting stats those. hardly the stats of average midfielders - more the look of midfielders who were overworked. bad tactics?

[Sangria]

interesting stats those. hardly the stats of average midfielders - more the look of midfielders who were overworked. bad tactics?

Can hardly fault Dalglish for his tactics at the moment. The squad is stupidly unbalanced, and his hand is forced to a large extent by the players he has available. 4 CBs in defence and no fit FBs means no threats from the flanks, which gives the opposition carte blanche to push forward. Insua Insua Insua. How this team misses someone like thee.

[new-red]

If someone disagrees with you about Lucas you say they are haters is it not the same thing?

We only call people haters who continuously slate, not criticize, Slate, Lucas without providing any supporting arguments. You see how much effort goes into my pro-lucas stance and while I don't expect others to do the same they should at least put some effort into the reply so as to add to the discussion.

[El Rey, por favor]

He's shite, and shouldn't get a whiff of our first team, but hey, he's a scouser

[new-red]

interesting stats those. hardly the stats of average midfielders - more the look of midfielders who were overworked. bad tactics?

and they were. They were defending for most of the game and it shows. We don't know if they were bad tactics or just that we had to replace two of our most skillful defenders with two inferior subs. Replacing Agger with Soto would have been a real pisstake if it wasn't a last resort. And wilson does not have the technical ability to be an effective left back. It was really a much different game then we expected when seeing the team sheets.

[Sangria]

We only call people haters who continuously slate, not criticize, Slate, Lucas without providing any supporting arguments. You see how much effort goes into my pro-lucas stance and while I don't expect others to do the same they should at least put some effort into the reply so as to add to the discussion.

You should have taken an anti-Lucas stand instead and provoked HBHR to duel with you. You'd be slumped over your keyboard in defeat while he's still tapping away at his second post.

[Vidocq]

Lucas' stats

38 passes, 34 completed.

5 interceptions

6 tackles, 3 won

1 clearance

0 blocks

0 free kicks won, 1 conceded.

So after actually looking at Lucas' stats I have to question whether you really believe that. Clearly you don't value statistics because you wouldn't have posted something like this to prove a point.

what are you talking about? Spearing's statistics are very good...someone said he cant tackle or pass, but statistics are saying he can, that was my point

[smig]

He's shite, and shouldn't get a whiff of our first team, but hey, he's a scouser

Shite? People get lambasted for merely suggesting that Lucas isn't as good as some on here would have you believe, yet it's fair to label Spearing as shite on the basis of about 20 first team appearances?

[Juan Loco]

he's a scouser

Because someone will mention it eventually...

He's not.

[new-red]

what are you talking about? Spearing's statistics are very good...someone said he cant tackle or pass, but statistics are saying he can, that was my point

they are not better than Lucas' and this is a pointless argument. Spearing can tackle and pass and shoot. That is evident in his play. His problems are more mental and tactical than technical. If he wants to succeed he has to learn to read the game better because that is what is holding him back.

[Mostar]

He's shite, and shouldn't get a whiff of our first team, but hey, he's a scouser

He's squad player at best.  He'll never be the first teamer and though I appreciate his efforts and his desire imo he's not nearly good enough and sadly never will be.

[hairykewell]

No wonder players don't have any loyalty - fans are no fucking better.

Just because fans don't like a player doesn't mean they are not loyal. If I was at a match I would never boo the lad because he is committed but it doesn't change the fact he is an average player. If you think he's played some good games he is either a friend of yours or you have no idea about football.

[hitnrock]

Still going to reserve judgement on the lad, because he's had a few tidy games for us so far and I'm not
having the opinion about him turn full circle in a week. Let's look at him for what he is, snappy into the tackle, neat and tidy on the ball, tough and committed.  Granted he probably won't dominate a midfield or rip up anyway trees but a good option to have till the end of the season nevertheless.

this.^^^

Shite? People get lambasted for merely suggesting that Lucas isn't as good as some on here would have you believe, yet it's fair to label Spearing as shite on the basis of about 20 first team appearances?

Exaclty.

[MiddleMan]

Just because fans don't like a player doesn't mean they are not loyal. If I was at a match I would never boo the lad because he is committed but it doesn't change the fact he is an average player. If you think he's played some good games he is either a friend of yours or you have no idea about football.

uh, he has had some good games for us. notably sunderland and, while there was a terrible team performance at WBA, he put in a decent shift (according to the stats. in game no player was a standout).

maybe you just don't watch LFC often? or you expecting world class from the outset?

i suspect its the latter.

[Solomon Grundy]

Clearly not good enough. Never has been and never will be. Thats the harsh reality of it all. He's not alone when it comes to that either.

[Redcap]

I'd say this half a season can be compared to Rafa's first half of a season in charge. There are loads of players he inherited that were never good enough, or are no longer good enough, and a significant culling needs to happen.

The likes of Traore, Biscan, Smicer, Diao and Baros all left by the start of Rafa's second season, but he had to play them due to limited resources. It will be the same story for Maxi, Aurelio, Poulsen, Spearing and Jovanovic come the start of next season. Although I wouldn't mind seeing Spearing go out on loan. He does deserve a chance to prove himself in the first team, I'd just rather he did it somewhere else first.

[hairykewell]

uh, he has had some good games for us. notably sunderland and, while there was a terrible team performance at WBA, he put in a decent shift (according to the stats. in game no player was a standout).

maybe you just don't watch LFC often? or you expecting world class from the outset?

i suspect its the latter.

My previous post before the one you quoted on acknowledges the fact he played well against Sunderland. I don't need to look at stats to know if someone has played well or not. Also I don't think players need to be world class from the offset but he is average at best and always will be.

I have nothing against the lad but you either have it or you don't, a players talent doesn't change once they pass 18-20 years of age. Yes they improve but they don't all of a sudden become talented.

[nocturnalvin]

Anyone who doesn't rate Lucas but rate Spearing at the same time.... is absolutely totally undeniably ignorant about football.

[hairykewell]

Anyone who doesn't rate Lucas but rate Spearing at the same time.... is absolutely totally undeniably ignorant about football.

This!!

[Mostar]

Anyone who doesn't rate Lucas but rate Spearing at the same time.... is absolutely totally undeniably ignorant about football.

Cannot argue with that.

[MassDriver]

He's shite, and shouldn't get a whiff of our first team, but hey, he's a scouser

Are for fucking real?  You are insinuating that Spearing gets game time because he is a Scouser? That's a very serious allegation to make without having a fucking shred of evidence to back it up. You would do well to can it.

Looks to me like its politically correct and fashionable to make sweeping statements like "He is not good enough" about Spearing on here when he has had a grand total of 20 odd appearances and is 23 years of age. Smacks of hypocrisy to me. 

How the fuck do you know he is not 'good enough' when the manager and people who work with the lad day in day out think so?

[leivapool]

Are for fucking real?  You are insinuating that Spearing gets game time because he is a Scouser? That's a very serious allegation to make without having a fucking shred of evidence to back it up. You would do well to can it.

Looks to me like its politically correct and fashionable to make sweeping statements like "He is not good enough" about Spearing on here when he has had a grand total of 20 odd appearances and is 23 years of age. Smacks of hypocrisy to me. 

How the fuck do you know he is not 'good enough' when the manager and people who work with the lad day in day out think so?

I'm not insinuating he gets game time because he's local, but he is definitely favoured by being 'home-grown', whatever that means.  He makes up a the home grown numbers in the squad, simple as.

As to whether he is good enough.  Jay has never been picked over any of our recognised first team midfielders in the premier league.  When the first teamers are fit, he doesn't get a look in, even if the first teamers are carrying a knock he doesn't get a match.  That to me suggests he isn't good enough, and at nearly 23, the age Lucas was at the start of this season, I'd suggest he will never be first team quality.  I think the reason he only has 20 odd appearances is precisely becasue he isn't good enough.  Sorry for the sweeping statement, bu I don't know how else to articulate it.

The only reason he is getting played now is because of injuries.  Sorry if people disagree, but those are my thoughts.

[theblackhumor]

I think Spearing has been decent whenever he's come on. He's certainly ahead of Poulsen in my books solely because he's more energetic and has more workrate on the field. As to his ability, would be great if he does break through and at the very least become a squad member but as for being in the first team....

4 years ago we were singing "We've Got The Best Midfield in the World" so honestly the club would have to work hard to restore that.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

Sorry if you thought I was being harsh. The thing is like I say he was better than Lucas but I can't and never see you post in the Lucas thread talking about his poor performance but as soon as Jay as an average game your in here hammering in the lad - Why?

Jay has played about 3 or 4 PL games and your judging him?
People go on about Dani and how he should get games etc cause he is the best player for our reserves but Jay has been one of the best players in the reserves for the last 4 years or so.

Like I said the squad needs better than Jay but I wouldn't bin Jay cause what you will get is fight for the shirt.

Sums it up for me really. He´s what, 23, and has had 4 games in the league. There´s a reason for that. Not having a go at him, it´s just that I don´t think he brings much to the table at all.

[MassDriver]

I'm not insinuating he gets game time because he's local, but he is definitely favoured by being 'home-grown', whatever that means.  He makes up a the home grown numbers in the squad, simple as.

As to whether he is good enough.  Jay has never been picked over any of our recognised first team midfielders in the premier league.  When the first teamers are fit, he doesn't get a look in, even if the first teamers are carrying a knock he doesn't get a match.  That to me suggests he isn't good enough, and at nearly 23, the age Lucas was at the start of this season, I'd suggest he will never be first team quality.  I think the reason he only has 20 odd appearances is precisely becasue he isn't good enough.  Sorry for the sweeping statement, bu I don't know how else to articulate it.

The only reason he is getting played now is because of injuries.  Sorry if people disagree, but those are my thoughts.

Not directed at you at all mate , I know you feel rather strongly about a couple of players in our squad and their ability to contribute anything to the team  .

And Jay doesn't have to be a world beater you know , that is why we have a 25-30 squad for. We need players to fill in when the first teamers are out , the kind of players who make up their lack of quality through commitment and application and Spearing qualifies as such a player. We cannot have 25 top class players in a squad , it doesn't work that way.

He is still young , only 23 there is room for improvement. Some players are late bloomers , look at Drgba now and compare him to the player he was at 23. I am not saying Spearing will become a top class player in the future but there is definite room for progress , especially in a critical position like Central Midfield. He hasn't done much wrong in the games he has been called upon by Kenny so I don't see why he cannot hang around for 4-5 years as a squad/rotation  player or even a first teamer if he shows drastic improvement.

[ziggyy]

He's good as a squad option for League cup or Europa matches but definitely shouldn't be someone we should use regularly when challenging for the real stuff like CL or PL titles. He's just like the Danny Gibson of our team....

Personally, I think he should move on for his own sake.  Look at Warnock, Murphy, even David Thompson (anyone remember him...) who became first team players for other clubs in the mid-table. 

Unless we have started viewing ourselves as a mid-table club... I thought that ended when Hodgson and the fat rats left us.....

[Vinay]

Anyone who doesn't rate Lucas but rate Spearing at the same time.... is absolutely totally undeniably ignorant about football.

I wouldn't want to offend my comrades using the exact same words, but let me say that I echo these sentiments.

[Stanfo]

Unless you are a top player it makes sense to stay at a club until you are 23/24, getting a good grounding, european exposure, decent money and then re evaluating where you stand for the last 10 years of your career at a lower league club if need be.

As fans of a big club we sometimes buy into the idea that you have failed and are "shite" unless you are playing 600 games in the premier league or champions league, when in reality players like Spearing have lived and are living all our dreams despite being in some peoples eyes shite. I'm sure Jay is constantly evaluating the benefits of staying against those of leaving all the time and at some point will move on, however to criticise him for playing for the club he has supported all his life, helping the squad when asked without moaning is a bit shit to say the least.

[sneakyg]

if he is good enough to play for LFC then god help our chances of challenging for top 4

[Stanfo]

The majority of people who don't slag him off admit that he is a solid squad player at best, certainly until our owners put their hands in their pockets in a major way and strengthen the entire playing squad, which may or may not happen this summer. I would be more than happy splashing what cash we may have on a limited number of top players, while maintaining squad strength with players like Spearing and some of our younger lads. To my knowledge the lad has never said anything negative about his position or the club and yet some of our fans still slag him off for not being Xavi or Iniesta.

Quite a few people need to take a reality check and realise that at the current time we are not the team we once where and get behind the whole club, owners, coaches and players, rather than slagging them off all the time on internet forums. That or change your team to one that better fills what you think a football club and it's fans should be about. Chelsea or City maybe.

[Vidocq]

Anyone who doesn't rate Lucas but rate Spearing at the same time.... is absolutely totally undeniably ignorant about football.

not really..Lucas is here for four seasons,and Jay is having only few but great games

you know what is ignorance? Lucas fans saying Spearing is not good enough...thats just funny

[Jason_King]

If we want to challenge the top 4 then he is in no way good enough. Yes he works hard, but hasnt done anything to show he should be part of a squad with top 4 in its sights.

If we are planning on top 10 then yes he may be ok to class as a squad player. Would he ever get anywhere near the pitch for Chelsea, United, Arsenal, Spurs, City? No.

It all depends on where we see ourselves

[Groundskeeper Willie]

not really..Lucas is here for four seasons,and Jay is having only few but great games

you know what is ignorance? Lucas fans saying Spearing is not good enough...thats just funny

TBF there´s an ocean of quality separating the two players. Lucas brings so much more to the table than Jay.

[scatman]

i dont want to make Spearing the next Zidane,but he have some qualities...movement,speed,pass

statistics against WBA

passes: all 46, unsuccessful 9

tackles: all 4, lost 1

interceptions: 2

clearances: 1

blocks: 1

free kicks won: 2

 better statistics than Lucas

That wasnt the point of my post, but you don't seem to understand points so I'd rather you didn't quote my posts and use them for your agenda against Lucas.


My point is that Spearing can compete with Lucas for the role that Lucas plays. However it seems he does not want to and is competing with Gerrard, Meireles and co. It's obvious he's not made for that part of the pitch, however he has the attributes to compete with Lucas, so why doesnt he?

[Sangria]

not really..Lucas is here for four seasons,and Jay is having only few but great games

you know what is ignorance? Lucas fans saying Spearing is not good enough...thats just funny

It must pain you to see Dalglish in the dugout every week.