Topic: Alcohol Issues - The Carl van Riel Memorial Thread

[Billy The Kid]

Would you say though that people can be born with an addictive personality?

Check out Dr. Gabor Maté on YouTube. Some of his video's offer a really informative insight into addiction. Here's a short one to give you an idea of his teachings. Well worth checking out his longer talks too, particularly if you want to gain a better understanding of it all

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/T5sOh4gKPIg" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/T5sOh4gKPIg</a>

[TheTeflonJohn]

Thanks Billy, that`s very thought provoking, never thought about it that way and in some ways makes sense.

I`m currently under heavy pressure in life at the moment, the job is stressful to say the least, I `ve got two massive financial problems coming at me that need sorting and all I want to do is have a bevvy. I stop myself so it doesn`t descend into a problem but it`s constantly there in the mind - "Go on, have a bevvy".

I suppose the pain Gabor talks about can come in many forms.

[JLStretton]

With just reading in the main thread about the terribly sad news about Carl it hopefully will in some small way give people on here who have alcohol issues [like myself] a kick up the arse to try sort themselves out.  Regardless of that we have sadly lost another to young to this horrible disease.

Rest In Peace Carl.  YNWA.

[Alan_X]

Morning everyone.
I’m sorry to tell you all that my little brother passed away at 330 this morning. I have no more words. I am simply heartbroken. X

[Slightly Less Mediocre Baron Bennekov]

RIP Carl! You’ll be missed by so many people... God bless! YNWA!

[pezzzer]

RIP Carl. YNWA. My prayers go out to your family buddy

[24/7]

Tributes & Condolences thread here

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=337297.msg15704353;topicseen#msg15704353

[Nobby Reserve]

I've only ever dipped in and out of this thread over the years (mostly as a lurker) and never got caught up with it. I've had what I can realise have been minor battles with addiction, and for a spell in my life lived with someone who was an alcoholic. I've spent most of today in work reading my way through from the first page, sometimes skimming, sometimes reading intently, sometimes missing several pages out.

And it's an absolutely stunning read; at times heartbreaking, at times eye-opening, at times ridiculously funny. But always captivating, because it's people who've laid their problems and lives bare. So many times I've clicked on user names to check when they last logged in - most, thankfully, have done recently. I find myself worrying about those who haven't been active for years (whatever happened to And He Can Play, anyone?). It's been a humbling experience.

I hope that the honesty, the support, the anecdotes, the wise words have helped and continue to help people with their own battles.

[Slightly Less Mediocre Baron Bennekov]

ACHP is doing good and has a healthy relationship with alcohol and is getting married next summer. All is good in his life.

[24/7]

ACHP is doing good and has a healthy relationship with alcohol and is getting married next summer. All is good in his life.

That's fab thanks for the update. Give him my regards would you please?

[Nobby Reserve]

ACHP is doing good and has a healthy relationship with alcohol and is getting married next summer. All is good in his life.

Thanks for that - appreciate it 

[Billy The Kid]

R.I.P Carl. You'll be sorely missed lad   

I never met Carl in person, but in a strange kind of way, I always felt like I "knew him", if that makes sense? It's hard to describe or put in words why I felt that. I guess when you openly confide in someone about an issue as serious as alcoholism then an underlying bond and respect naturally develops between the persons involved. Lord knows, Carl and I had our disagreements and failed to see eye to eye on many occasions. Sometimes it got heated and we told each other where to go. Carl was good at that. He had quite a knack for telling people to go fuck themselves in a round-about polite sort of way 

But it never got personal. As much as we squabbled, and as much as we clashed heads, I think both of us knew, that beneath it all, we just wanted what was best for each other. I remember on one occasion, having had quite a heated debate with him in this thread, he popped up in the main forum 2 minutes later, spotted a post of mine, quoted it, and replied with "  Well said you c*nt  " And that was it. A couple of PM's later all was cool. And that was Carl. He was a good hearted soul. I'm just sorry that my efforts to save him from his demons didn't materialize in the end 

There were times when I literally wanted to reach into my computer screen and grab him, such was my wish to help him, and to try avert what I always feared would be an imminent end for him. Then again, that being said, had I managed to grab him, I honestly don't know if I would have strangled him, or just hugged him and sobbed uncontrollably with him - such was my understanding of the turmoil he was going through. It's a bastard cunting disease this. It really is

So long Carl! You certainly wont be forgotten. Adios mate 

[Slightly Less Mediocre Baron Bennekov]

That's fab thanks for the update. Give him my regards would you please?

I will mate!

He’s marrying the sister of a striker who played one season with his favourite team which happens to be Liverpool FC. That same striker moved on to West Brom and has recently retired from professional football.

[Chakan]

I will mate!

He’s marrying the sister of a striker who played one season with his favourite team which happens to be Liverpool FC. That same striker moved on to West Brom and has recently retired from professional football.

Punching well above his weight then.

[Slightly Less Mediocre Baron Bennekov]

Punching well above his weight then.

Harsh that mate. Paul has really turned his life around and finding his soon to be wife has worked wonders for him.

[Chakan]

Harsh that mate. Paul has really turned his life around and finding his soon to be wife has worked wonders for him.

Just joking mate.

Good to hear he's turned it all around.

Must be interesting dating someone who's been close to the club like that.

[Slightly Less Mediocre Baron Bennekov]

I know hence the smiley...

She’s a really sweet person and she has really helped Paul back on his feet.

[Chakan]

Well hope they are happy together and have a lovely long life.

Too bad the brother retired. Good lad.

[John C]

I'm just sorry that my efforts to save him from his demons didn't materialize in the end 

Indeed mate, many of us followed the discussions. I hope you don't mind that I've quoted your whole post in the main forum thread. It deserves a place there.
Thank you.

[BRdispatch05]

It has taken a while to sink in, but it just hit home. Carl has been a great support to this thread, and likewise has received great support in here.

It's very easy for me to not connect that behind these usernames are actual people. I know they are, but sometimes it almost feels everyone is just anonymous. I never felt that way with Carl. I don't know why. Maybe it's because him (and a few others) are always here throughout the good and the bad. I can't say the same for myself. When I was sloppy drunk asking for help, Carl would be one of the first to respond. When I chimed in that I just received my eighteen month sobriety chip, he was one of the first to respond. When I fell off the wagon again and came in here distraught, take a guess.

And I wish I could say the same. That I had given the same amount of support he has given myself and others. The disease won, and nothing I can say or do will change that. My chance is lost, and Carl is gone. I know just as well as many in here that sometimes no amount of advice, words of encouragement, or support will change someone's reaction to this disease, but they simultaneously have little chance without it, whatever the source.

Carl, I'm sorry I wasn't here for you as often you were for me. I'm going to miss you. Thank you for everything, and I'll never forget you.

[So… Howard Philips]

Just to reiterate what B4R says above - behind the usernames and bluster we're all human being with our foibles, strengths and weaknesses. If Carl/Sir Harvest has a legacy it is showing us all of our humanity.

[Tesco tearaway]

R.I.P Carl. You'll be sorely missed lad   

I never met Carl in person, but in a strange kind of way, I always felt like I "knew him", if that makes sense? It's hard to describe or put in words why I felt that. I guess when you openly confide in someone about an issue as serious as alcoholism then an underlying bond and respect naturally develops between the persons involved. Lord knows, Carl and I had our disagreements and failed to see eye to eye on many occasions. Sometimes it got heated and we told each other where to go. Carl was good at that. He had quite a knack for telling people to go fuck themselves in a round-about polite sort of way 

But it never got personal. As much as we squabbled, and as much as we clashed heads, I think both of us knew, that beneath it all, we just wanted what was best for each other. I remember on one occasion, having had quite a heated debate with him in this thread, he popped up in the main forum 2 minutes later, spotted a post of mine, quoted it, and replied with "  Well said you c*nt  " And that was it. A couple of PM's later all was cool. And that was Carl. He was a good hearted soul. I'm just sorry that my efforts to save him from his demons didn't materialize in the end 

There were times when I literally wanted to reach into my computer screen and grab him, such was my wish to help him, and to try avert what I always feared would be an imminent end for him. Then again, that being said, had I managed to grab him, I honestly don't know if I would have strangled him, or just hugged him and sobbed uncontrollably with him - such was my understanding of the turmoil he was going through. It's a bastard cunting disease this. It really is

So long Carl! You certainly wont be forgotten. Adios mate 

Billy, you've written some cracker stuff on this site mate; always love reading your posts.
This one has literally brought me to tears... Thanks mate 

[Slightly Less Mediocre Baron Bennekov]

Beautiful post, Billy. Beautiful......

[spen71]

Just read the news about Carl.   He always commented on how well I was doing as I went through the years sober.     I’ve lost a few mates over the last year and it’s horrible watching them die of booze.   RIP Carl never forgotten

[Ziltoid]

R.I.P Carl. You'll be sorely missed lad   

I had to snip it, but what a beautiful post

[Motty]

I will mate!

He’s marrying the sister of a striker who played one season with his favourite team which happens to be Liverpool FC. That same striker moved on to West Brom and has recently retired from professional football.

He stayed with her then, fair play to him for sorting himself out, he was a good lad was Paul.

Oh and great post Billy [emoji1303] you could easily tell you only had eachothers best interests at heart during those exchanges the two of you had.

[MBL?]

I'm signing in here but I've nothing to add.

[Mumm-Ra]

Well said Billy. You did your best, seen it over the years in this thread and really respect it

[TheTeflonJohn]

He stayed with her then, fair play to him for sorting himself out, he was a good lad was Paul.

Oh and great post Billy [emoji1303] you could easily tell you only had eachothers best interests at heart during those exchanges the two of you had.

Why did he go missing from here years ago?

[realtarragona]

Just found out. Can’t believe it.

Still have his messages he sent me when I was struggling myself with alcohol and other stuff. He went out of his way to help cheer me up in his own unique way (“I’ll let you suffer when I have a cock the size of an elephant”). Definitely one of a kind. So sad.

[Barneylfc∗]

Why did he go missing from here years ago?

Paul? He recruited some people off here for his work. Runs a leaflet distribution company with his brother I believe.
His side of the story is that he gave a job to a guy, the guy fucked around and took the piss so he got sacked. Someone on here took offence to that as they were friends with the guy. He got banned.

[24/7]

Paul? He recruited some people off here for his work. Runs a leaflet distribution company with his brother I believe.
His side of the story is that he gave a job to a guy, the guy fucked around and took the piss so he got sacked. Someone on here took offence to that as they were friends with the guy. He got banned.

Unlikely that's the full story to be fair. I interacted with Paul a lot and was aware of his businesses, was gonna help him meself, then he was no longer on the forum, I forget specifically why but it wouldn't be because of that.....

[Barneylfc∗]

Unlikely that's the full story to be fair. I interacted with Paul a lot and was aware of his businesses, was gonna help him meself, then he was no longer on the forum, I forget specifically why but it wouldn't be because of that.....

I was careful to put in 'His side of the story' 

[24/7]

I was careful to put in 'His side of the story' 

Yeah no worries, I clocked that - say hello from me if you're in touch.

[CrasherKid79]

There’s help. Go to AA.

[24/7]

There’s help. Go to AA.

That's not everyone's cup of tea, Kid - and after 292 pages you can be sure that AA has been discussed at length.

[Slightly Less Mediocre Baron Bennekov]

That's fab thanks for the update. Give him my regards would you please?

I've been in touch with Paul this morning. He told me to "pass on my best to Jim and the lads".

I guess Paul's a testament to that it is in fact possible to knock the drink on the head and move on. It takes a helluva lot of will power, very good friends and family but it certainly can be done!

[Billy The Kid]

It's very easy for me to not connect that behind these usernames are actual people. I know they are, but sometimes it almost feels everyone is just anonymous. I never felt that way with Carl. I don't know why.

I never met Carl in person, but in a strange kind of way, I always felt like I "knew him", if that makes sense? It's hard to describe or put in words why I felt that.

I think the fact that both of us share such similar feelings towards Carl is quite a testament to him. I'm also pretty sure that we aren't the only two. There are probably hundreds of other posters who would say the same thing. His sincerity was quite unique and endearing, wasn't it?. It was hard not to feel genuine affection for him, even after being on the receiving end of one of his tirades - as I was on more than one occasion

I'll be honest, Carl's passing has been playing on my mind quite a bit over the last 24 hours, mainly because this thread literally (and I mean literally) saved my life. I still remember the very first time I posted in here and I still remember the responses of support I got. They came from Jim, then Carl, then Paul, then Andy, then Tom and then Alex. Fucking hell, I'm almost welling up just thinking back on it.

That was around March 2011 if I recall correctly. I was pretty destitute and fucked up from alcohol back then, both mentally physically. Little did I know when I first entered this thread just how much of a positive impact it was about to have on my life. An impact that may have never happened had Carl not had the courage to start this thread in the first place.

Yet here we are, almost a decade later, Carl is dead, whilst I'm still alive and walking the earth. How's that for a tragic twist of fate? Sort of makes you wonder what the fuck life is all about? Doesn't it? It was him that technically saved me! So why the fuck am I still here? Why am I still walking around wasting oxygen while Carl has to bow out way before his time? That's what swirling around in my head at the minute and why Carl's passing is having such a sombre effect on me

Which brings me back around to something that I've shared in this thread on numerous occasions, and something that I'd like to respectfully reiterate now that Carl has passed on. Before I say it though, I just want to make it abundantly clear that I'm in no way trying to play the "I told you so" card. Nor do I wish to make anyone who has contributed to this thread feel regretful. That is absolutely not my intention whatsoever. What I'm about to say comes from the bottom of my heart and is offered with genuine sincerity. Here it is:

About 4 years ago, I was sitting in my kitchen reading this thread. I don't want to go into too much detail recounting or describing the direction the discussion was beginning to go in, but let's just say that my concern for Carl had been piqued due to the fact that some contributors seemed to be:

A) Downplaying the seriousness of his situation
B) Offering him advice without fully understanding the cunningness of alcoholism

Again, just let me say that I'm in no way trying to make anyone feel remorseful or feel that their contributions to this thread were unwelcomed, misplaced or ill-advised. That is NOT my intention so please don't construe it as so. The point I'd like to respectfully put across is this:

Alcoholism is a seriously dangerous addiction. I can't even begin to explain just how cunning it can be and how adept it is at pouncing on bad advice and convincing the addict to continue indulging. The mind of an alcoholic is radically different to the mind of someone who isn't a problem drinker. The thinking processes are like chalk and cheese

Therefore (and I mean this with the greatest of respect) I think it's prudent for anyone wishing to offer advice to an alcoholic to ensure that they have a proper understanding of the severity of the disease before they lend their input. Ill-informed advice (although well intentioned and offered with sincerity) can have drastic consequences. In some cases, even fatal consequences. Again, before I end the post, I just want to reaffirm that what I'm saying here comes from the bottom of my heart and is not aimed at anyone in particular. Nor is it it a lecture in anyway shape or form

Billy
 

[24/7]

Well said, Billy. I've learned far more about it in the last few years as a result of what my dad's been through, as well as of course picking up what people in this thread have been through.

One thing I really want to try and ensure happens is that Carl's passing leaves a legacy behind it so that others might find a path through their darkness. More on that as and when.

Moving tribute from you yesterday too, really well written. Am sure Helen and the rest of the Vanriel clan appreciated it.

[CrasherKid79]

That's not everyone's cup of tea, Kid - and after 292 pages you can be sure that AA has been discussed at length.

As an alcoholic there’s no other way. It’s unfortunate but the truth.