Topic: YANKS OUT

[Tom-D]

Who are they? Why do we hope something happens? What if they're as bad as/worse than G+H?

Surely its worth taking the risk? or would you rather keep them two instead?

[The G in Gerrard]

The what group...? Too many false dawns to get excited....

[redprodigal]

An investment bank from Dubai. Recently, their CEO stepped down. Guess who is expected to be their new Chief Executive: Sameer Al-Ansari

So what? DIC were interested in buying at one point. Al Ansari was their CEO but the Sheikh was the one behind the deal. Al Ansari was just an employee and a fan. Why do people keep going on about Al Ansari? That is long gone.

[TSC]

No matter how its spun, the days of Gillett and Hicks are niumbered.

Not how I'd hoped, by a takeover by proper owners.

But by their deceit and financial emptiness catching up in the end.

But WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?  Is no one interested in this scenario?  Its worse than the perceived apathy of many of the fans to our current plight. What the fuck is in place for the moment when G/H go bankrupt, and the banks take control of LFC???

Its gonna happen soon.  Either we accept we sell Mascherano, Torres and whoever, and hope to scrape by in Division 1.. or go down,    or we get some forward planning ready.  We need intelligent people ready to take us forward.

[BazC]

Surely its worth taking the risk? or would you rather keep them two instead?

I'd rather we actually make a proper fucking decision for once!

An investment bank from Dubai. Recently, their CEO stepped down. Guess who is expected to be their new Chief Executive: Sameer Al-Ansari

Is that the only reason there's a link?

[rafathegaffa83]

So what? DIC were interested in buying at one point. Al Ansari was their CEO but the Sheikh was the one behind the deal. Al Ansari was just an employee and a fan. Why do people keep going on about Al Ansari? That is long gone.

My post was essentially intimating that the tenuous rumours/links between Liverpool and a Shuaa-backed takeover are probably based around Al-Ansari's appointment as Shuaa's CEO.

Is that the only reason there's a link?

Probably.

[TSC]

No matter how its spun, the days of Gillett and Hicks are niumbered.

Not how I'd hoped, by a takeover by proper owners.

But by their deceit and financial emptiness catching up in the end.

But WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?  Is no one interested in this scenario?  Its worse than the perceived apathy of many of the fans to our current plight. What the fuck is in place for the moment when G/H go bankrupt, and the banks take control of LFC???

Its gonna happen soon.  Either we accept we sell Mascherano, Torres and whoever, and hope to scrape by in Division 1.. or go down,    or we get some forward planning ready.  We need intelligent people ready to take us forward.

Yep something surely has to come to a head soon.  What's the alternative to the current?  Nothing obvious in place.  But without a real alternative in place then we're gonna have to accept a bit of a vacuum and keep fingers crossed.  To be honest I'd take that chance because we're simply in quicksand at the moment.

On another point.  does that Cohen thread on the main board not fuck everyone off?  100+ pages.  Yes he's a turd.  Yes they done a good job in getting rid.  But it's full of self wanking posts and encouragement to continue the pursuit of him wherever he turns up.

Wish some of our US based support turned their attention to the real problem.  They're celebrating defeating a cold when cancer is rife.

Fuck Cohen.  Hardly anyone over here would have heard of him without the net.  He's only superficially damaging the club's reputation among American based footbal supporters.  While the owners continue to tear the very fabric of the club apart.

Talk about fuckin priorities.

[shelovesyou]

My post was essentially intimating that the tenuous rumours/links between Liverpool and a Shuaa-backed takeover are probably based around Al-Ansari's appointment as Shuaa's CEO.

Probably.

No. Its on here somewhere that there have been talks with Al Guirar or whatever his name is , it had nothing to with Al Ansari's appointment to the group . These talks have been going on for weeks .

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=245952.msg6056523#msg6056523

Scroll up to Rosti's post.

[coffeehead]

There are suggestions that at the refinance all that happened was that RBS's exposure reduced by £60m and that was replaced by money borrowed by the Americans coming through the holding companies. That replacement "money" attracted an interest charge to be repaid at a certain figure which was in excess of the actual costs of the borrowing itself.

So, for instance, they borrowed the £60m at 5% and then lent it to LFC at 10% - nice little earner.....

Hmm. Any more info on this claim? It's exactly what I assumed  would happen so would like to know if there's any truth to it...Hopefully it's not true

[coffeehead]

If you mean that Hicks and Gillett have never been publicly quoted stating that they have accepted or rejected a bid for LFC, then you may be correct. Given that Gillett and Hicks often fail to make comments about things that they ought to, this is unsurprising. If your argument is that there have been no bids for the club, this is disingenuous. It is clearly untrue that no bids have been made for LFC during the tenure of H&G. See below (as one example).
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/118991

As we know, Xerxes has a very solipsistic take on things and so unless both G&H and any potential purchaser has written to him, phoned him, emailed him and texted him with full details and confirmation of an attempt to buy he will refuse to believe it could possibly happen. The phrase 'things happening behind the scenes' has no meaning for him

[coffeehead]

I posted many posts in the "We've got no money" thread last week asking about the endgame as you put it, and no one added any opinions as far as I can recall.

It's all well and good drumming up feelings to save our club, but to what end? The next leveraged buyout? Share Liverpool? The latter represents the best option in my opinion, but then it's still early doors and no one knows if it can actually emerge as a viable plan to takeover the club.

I've also kept my eye on the SoS site a fair while, and have seen nothing about the actual plans they have in order to work towards their aims (specifically the ultimate aim in this case).

Mate, sometimes you have to reach the precipice before you plan your descent. It's hard to come up with viable plans until we know what we're dealing with - not that 'we' will have much say in any case.

It's unsettling and nerve-racking just waiting to see what might happen but short of all getting behind some fan ownership initiative - which I am all for but not many people seem prepared to countenance - there's not much we can do.

It's just another of the crimes committed by G&H: they've moved the whole ball game out of our reach

[coffeehead]

So what? DIC were interested in buying at one point. Al Ansari was their CEO but the Sheikh was the one behind the deal. Al Ansari was just an employee and a fan. Why do people keep going on about Al Ansari? That is long gone.

Actually it was initially Al-Ansari's idea, which he had after sitting with Parry in Istanbul, using the Sheikh's money via DIC

[Crackerjack Sam]

Hicks and Gillett (the best a fool can get) days are seriously numbered. Almost 3 years of shite promises and they're making promises to make promises. I've had enough! Money needed to invest in the team, they're not willing to hand out, bastards.
One day something big will happen to get these guys out on there arses and gone for good. I hope that day comes real soon.

[thredworm]

Yep something surely has to come to a head soon.  What's the alternative to the current?  Nothing obvious in place.  But without a real alternative in place then we're gonna have to accept a bit of a vacuum and keep fingers crossed.  To be honest I'd take that chance because we're simply in quicksand at the moment.

On another point.  does that Cohen thread on the main board not fuck everyone off?  100+ pages.  Yes he's a turd.  Yes they done a good job in getting rid.  But it's full of self wanking posts and encouragement to continue the pursuit of him wherever he turns up.

Wish some of our US based support turned their attention to the real problem.  They're celebrating defeating a cold when cancer is rife.

Fuck Cohen.  Hardly anyone over here would have heard of him without the net.  He's only superficially damaging the club's reputation among American based footbal supporters.  While the owners continue to tear the very fabric of the club apart.

Talk about fuckin priorities.

I can see where you're coming from, and to an extent I agree, but the ownership problem and where to start with it isn't similar to what's been done about Cohen at all.

The boycott arranged for that had a starting point, the sponsors. It was pretty easy to send out a few emails to addresses readily available, and KNOW that most of those sponsors wouldn't take too kindly to being associated with Cohen and his remarks. That's what started the ball rolling, and after that it gathered pace.

With the ownership issue, where is our start and our plan? Sure there are marches, there are banners, there are leaflets, there are flyers, there are websites, but does anyone really KNOW what's going to be effective in getting them out? Not really. If we did then we'd all feel better about the scenario and be moving toward that goal, but we're not, because we all don't really know what we can do to DEFINITELY get shot of them. That's the difference to what's happening with Cohen. Yes he's small fish and definitely not as important as the ownership issue, but there was something there which everyone knew would work.

I'm not arguing with you by the way, I'm just saying that I could sit here and read all the proposals for getting shot of these two fuckwits and still see no end result to it all. It's been going on for 18 months now, and we're still not sure about a definite plan of action, so that's got to be the first issue tackled.

[Liverbird 2010]

Yep something surely has to come to a head soon.  What's the alternative to the current?  Nothing obvious in place.  But without a real alternative in place then we're gonna have to accept a bit of a vacuum and keep fingers crossed.  To be honest I'd take that chance because we're simply in quicksand at the moment.

On another point.  does that Cohen thread on the main board not fuck everyone off?  100+ pages.  Yes he's a turd.  Yes they done a good job in getting rid.  But it's full of self wanking posts and encouragement to continue the pursuit of him wherever he turns up.

Wish some of our US based support turned their attention to the real problem.  They're celebrating defeating a cold when cancer is rife.

Fuck Cohen.  Hardly anyone over here would have heard of him without the net.  He's only superficially damaging the club's reputation among American based footbal supporters.  While the owners continue to tear the very fabric of the club apart.

Talk about fuckin priorities.

Hear Hear, said the very same thing myself last week.

[will2003]

Perhaps that should be mentioned in the Cohen (knobface) thread to get them to stop self masterbating and actually focus on the real problems facing our club..

[BazC]

Mate, sometimes you have to reach the precipice before you plan your descent. It's hard to come up with viable plans until we know what we're dealing with - not that 'we' will have much say in any case.

Not in this case you can't. Firstly, the best way to get G+H out is to offer an escape route. If they haven't got at least one, then they won't go. In fact, it'd be impossible for them to go if there's no alternative.

A viable plan should already be in place with SoS and SL both wanting fan ownership. They've both been in the news these last couple of years and the amount of campaigning they're doing I'm guessing there is a plan- it's just not public. It needs to be 'put out there' if they're going to get more support in my opinion.

I thought the whole point about SoS and SL was that 'we' would get a say? Or at least try to put the fans in a position where we could get a say in important matters, no?

It's unsettling and nerve-racking just waiting to see what might happen but short of all getting behind some fan ownership initiative - which I am all for but not many people seem prepared to countenance - there's not much we can do.

Know what you mean mate. Fan ownership is the only way we're going to be happy in my opinion. I believe that most owners who come in now will be in the G+H mould- leveraged up. Unless we get a sugardaddy type in who offers short term gain, but to fuck with the long term.

It's just another of the crimes committed by G&H: they've moved the whole ball game out of our reach

I blame Moores for fucking this club up the arse before he went. G+H were utterly stupid also for not getting out of the investment after the Sheik came in a year after they bought the club...  a year later and they won't be getting anywhere near what the offers back then will have been.

You can see why these 2 c*nts have been bankrupt a few times can't you?

I'm still hoping SL come up with viable plans and enough support. As cowtown said above- we need some intelligent people to lead this club forward.

[rafathegaffa83]

On another point.  does that Cohen thread on the main board not fuck everyone off?  100+ pages.  Yes he's a turd.  Yes they done a good job in getting rid.  But it's full of self wanking posts and encouragement to continue the pursuit of him wherever he turns up.

Wish some of our US based support turned their attention to the real problem.  They're celebrating defeating a cold when cancer is rife.

Fuck Cohen.  Hardly anyone over here would have heard of him without the net.  He's only superficially damaging the club's reputation among American based footbal supporters.  While the owners continue to tear the very fabric of the club apart.

Talk about fuckin priorities.

Cohen was telling lies about an extremely sensitive element of our history to a burgeoning market. The US-based supporter groups focused on educating the public and boycotting sponsors. According to the Cohen thread, the North American supporters groups achieved their aim and the leadership has moved on. It was effective because it was targeting an element, which was directly distributed within North America and therefore was achievable. The Cohen boycott/education campaign would not have been nearly as effective had the group managing it not been from a North American source.

I would think for an ownership change to occur the emphasis would have to be on fans in Liverpool and throughout Britain embarking on a similiar project. This is the geographical area where the majority of fans who are putting money into the club week-in and week-out via ticket sales and merchandise reside.

The problem is many of our fans in don't give a crap about the ownership situation, no matter where they live. You only need to look at how many people have said they would take the tickets of supporters who would boycott matches or have threads dedicated to the latest kit, despite a boycott on purchasing merchandise. Hicks and Gillett will only be affected if they are directly hit in the pocket and the most public way for that to occur would need to be administered by British-based fans: protesting at home games or even better boycotting high-profile matches.

[TSC]

I would think for an ownership change to occur the emphasis would have to be on fans in Liverpool and throughout Britain embarking on a similiar project. This is the geographical area where the majority of fans who are putting money into the club week-in and week-out via ticket sales and merchandise reside.

The problem is many of our fans in don't give a crap about the ownership situation, no matter where they live. You only need to look at how many people have said they would take the tickets of supporters who would boycott matches or have threads dedicated to the latest kit, despite a boycott on purchasing merchandise. Hicks and Gillett will only be affected if they are directly hit in the pocket and the most public way for that to occur would need to be administered by British-based fans: protesting at home games or even better boycotting high-profile matches.

I agree with you if it was a campaign based on hitting them in the pocket.  Then obviously it should be driven by match going fans.  However as has been recognised the likelihood of such a campaign taking place is close to zero, due to apathy/day-trippers or others in the 'queue' willing to dive at spares for any game.

Therefore we're left with a PR/communications type attack.  And this is only going to have limited success if it originates in the UK simply due to the fact the owners are based about 6000 miles away.  However if a robust campaign was taken up by our US based fans then it may have more chance of success, simply due to geography.  Americans generally are fairly patriotic.  Don't take kindly to seeing one of their own on the receiving end from a bunch of footie fans from 'across the pond' (see the Rangers thread in this forum to see reaction to an offer of 'joining forces').  It may be different if it was apparent Hicks was being challenged by US based fans though.

Unfortunately I don't think there is any motivation among our US based support to take this sort of action against Hicks.  Maybe this is due to some patriotic sense of loyalty, who knows.

[No666]

You know TSC I'm beginning to think the American fans are immaterial anyway. The only way to hurt Hicks and Gillett is make them suffer business-wise. That includes hurting their reputations (well exposing their true direness, when they have spent lifetimes and fortunes in pr trying to inflate those) and we can most effectively hurt their reputations from here, because the national broadsheets here are much less supine than their local press (what credibility does the Dallas News or whatever it's called have anyway) and carry far more clout world-wide.

[TSC]

You know TSC I'm beginning to think the American fans are immaterial anyway. The only way to hurt Hicks and Gillett is make them suffer business-wise. That includes hurting their reputations (well exposing their true direness, when they have spent lifetimes and fortunes in pr trying to inflate those) and we can most effectively hurt their reputations from here, because the national broadsheets here are much less supine than their local press (what credibility does the Dallas News or whatever it's called have anyway) and carry far more clout world-wide.

Yeah but I suppose the question is how to get good copy on the nationals, get their interest up, esp re the broadsheets?  They'd have to have an angle.  In essence we need an 'in' to one of the top writers.  Someone like Patrick Barclay et al.  The one thing which helps is the fact that Barrett is over 'there' now.

I don't know, but it seems to me they haven't grasped the gravity of our situation, or don't understand it, or as other posts have hinted at, they're deliberately holding off as all sorts is happening in the background re the club.

[ali]

Quebec government promises $75-million to ensure sale of Canadiens

According to La Presse, Quebec's economic development agency will extend a $75-million loan to ensure the Molson family's purchase

MONTREAL — The Canadian Press Last updated on Saturday, Aug. 29, 2009 01:28PM EDT

A Montreal newspaper is reporting that Quebec's economic development agency will extend a $75-million loan to ensure the Molson family's purchase of the Montreal Canadiens.

According to La Presse, the sale of the NHL franchise has yet to be completed with only two weeks to go before training camp starts.

In June, the Molsons issued a statement saying they had an agreement in principal to purchase the storied NHL club from George Gillett.

The transaction was expected to be completed by late August.

Earlier this summer, U.S. bank CIT, facing possible bankruptcy, pulled out of the roughly $225 loan commitment to help the Molson family purchase the team.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/quebec-government-promises-75-million-to-ensure-sale-of-canadiens/article1269518/

[Hendoben]

Hear Hear, said the very same thing myself last week.

And what are YOU doing? Why don't YOU do something about it?


Think it's a bit rich to start having a go at the American support, simply because they managed to accomplish something they set out to do. Learn from them maybe? The best the "real" support can come up with is handing out soe shiny fucking leaflets. Wooopdie fucking doooo.

The media don't care for Soccer in the US. The density of Liverpool fans isn't really there for them to make a huge noise on the scale we're talking about here. Cohen was nothing but a fucking piss in comparison.

WE ALL have to pull together on this. Fucking zero point to start sniping and alienating fans.

[TSC]

And what are YOU doing? Why don't YOU do something about it?


Think it's a bit rich to start having a go at the American support, simply because they managed to accomplish something they set out to do. Learn from them maybe? The best the "real" support can come up with is handing out soe shiny fucking leaflets. Wooopdie fucking doooo.

The media don't care for Soccer in the US. The density of Liverpool fans isn't really there for them to make a huge noise on the scale we're talking about here. Cohen was nothing but a fucking piss in comparison.

WE ALL have to pull together on this. Fucking zero point to start sniping and alienating fans.

You're gonna fuck a whole lot of core supporters off by simply dismissing their efforts as 'real' support handing out shiny leaflets.

We all realise the media don't care for football in the US.  That's the problem.

No-one's having a go at American support.  In fact, if you read between the lines, maybe we're asking for some help on this.

[hoonin]

Hear Hear, said the very same thing myself last week.

No-one's having a go at American support.  In fact, if you read between the lines, maybe we're asking for some help on this.

Unfortunately that's exactly how it comes across TSC.

Have you approached anyone involved in that US boycott to discuss directly with them if they can help? Graham Smith has been to meet LFCNY I believe. Has anything come of that? Are there regular communications from UK groups to supporters in the US? Sharing of ideas?

I'm not sure any single group could ever break enough ground in all of this to make the difference, but the role of of pulling disparate groups together sits best with the supporters union.

Directing ire at those you feel have wrong priorities seems misplaced to me. The bigot (Cohen) and the owners are two entirely different challenges and on massively different scales.

[Liverbird 2010]

When your abroad the only way to read about Liverpool is in the paper if your english you buy english papers, you will read about the owners in the papers sometimes.

If you dont buy a paper you would be none the wiser about the owners, if you dont use forums. This is what I was meaning about our American supporters to spread the word over there.

I wasnt attacking them just asking for some help thats all.

[xerxes1]

. The only way to hurt Hicks and Gillett is make them suffer business-wise. .

Correct.

[Graham Smith]

Unfortunately that's exactly how it comes across TSC.

Have you approached anyone involved in that US boycott to discuss directly with them if they can help? Graham Smith has been to meet LFCNY I believe. Has anything come of that? Are there regular communications from UK groups to supporters in the US? Sharing of ideas?

I'm not sure any single group could ever break enough ground in all of this to make the difference, but the role of of pulling disparate groups together sits best with the supporters union.

Directing ire at those you feel have wrong priorities seems misplaced to me. The bigot (Cohen) and the owners are two entirely different challenges and on massively different scales.

Gareth,

It was Paul Rice who went to New York and met the NY fan groups.

To be fair to them they were very supportive but I think we forget sometimes the size of the US and the fact that the owners live thousands of miles apart.

The Union have no issue with American fans pulling or not pulling their weight and to date we haven't come up with a viable plan to put to them for effective action over there (neither have they either ).

[xerxes1]

My view, Graham, is that we have our work cut out winning unity amongst UK based LFc fans, and that should be the priority.

[Graham Smith]

My view, Graham, is that we have our work cut out winning unity amongst UK based LFc fans, and that should be the priority.

We are happy to represent anyone from anywhere who agrees with our aims and objectives and supports our Club.

However, realistically it is most likely that we will need UK based and probably local fans to make the most impact.

[Mutton Geoff]

My view, Graham, is that we have our work cut out winning unity amongst UK based LFc fans, and that should be the priority.

Agreed this should be a priority, sadly though we have well meaning factions like SOS within the fanbase , who have helped to pitch fan against fan, over the need to take prudent action against the yankee doodle dummies, and in the past in various forums they have been very vigilant in shouting down and sometimes abusing any Lfc fan who wants no part of them! This does not to my mind unite this fanbase whatsoever, neither does derisory comments about the well meaning but ill informed people who hand out the leaflets in a futile hope of changing minds!

As for Cohen a lot of people like myself in the uk emailed the sponsors of his shows and his network in co-operation with our true fans in the USA.

My solution is quite simple we get together with the dallas stars fanbase and the texas rangers fanbase, we check their contacts in the US media and use them to heap bad publicity and and pressure on Hicks to go quietly and quickly! We also look to influence the US govt to look into Hicks financial dealings because it would not be a shock to find out he has sailed close to the wind over financial legislations.

This may not work anymore than anything else but working with the US fanbase has to be the way to go!

[xerxes1]

This may not work anymore than anything else but working with the US fanbase has to be the way to go!

I wholly disagree.

The way to go forwards is to unite the UK fanbase. America is an irrelevance.

What "bad publicity" do you have in mind.? G&H buy English soccer team in LBO and the fans dont like it?

[HarryLabrador]

I wholly disagree.

The way to go forwards is to unite the UK fanbase. America is an irrelevance.

What "bad publicity" do you have in mind.? G&H buy English soccer team in LBO and the fans dont like it?

Quite so.

[Mutton Geoff]

I wholly disagree.

The way to go forwards is to unite the UK fanbase. America is an irrelevance.

What "bad publicity" do you have in mind.? G&H buy English soccer team in LBO and the fans dont like it?

no i mean our fans in the USA, and the fans of hicks other sports franchises who hate him as well, and they can all lobby politicians to start digging into Hicks financial dealings in the USA far easier than we can from here,  this will further add pressure to his finances, so basically if you think a few guys outside Anfield with leaflets will change anything , you are wrong!

We need all the help we can get to remove this canker from our club, that means uniting globally not some narrow UK only campaign!

[Mutton Geoff]

We are happy to represent anyone from anywhere who agrees with our aims and objectives and supports our Club.

However, realistically it is most likely that we will need UK based and probably local fans to make the most impact.

Why would you not support every LFC fan? Whether they agree with your mandate or not?

 this is what stops the fans being united on this matter!

[Something Else]

We are happy to represent anyone from anywhere who agrees with our aims and objectives and supports our Club.

However, realistically it is most likely that we will need UK based and probably local fans to make the most impact.

Your difficulty is finding people who tick each of the following

1) know what is going on.
2) gives a shit
3) goes the games
4) is actually willing to do something about it, likely a physical ask, like a protest etc

Sadly those are too few and far between and too many are ready to replace any who give up tickets etc

[hoonin]

no i mean our fans in the USA, and the fans of hicks other sports franchises who hate him as well, and they can all lobby politicians to start digging into Hicks financial dealings in the USA far easier than we can from here,  this will further add pressure to his finances

It's a nice idea in theory.

The US traditionally uses light regulation for their financial and corporate systems. So much so the regulators missed the boat on the worst financial disaster in decades.

Hicks would be small fry and unlikely to be of any interest when set against the likes of Madoff and Stanford.

Why would you not support every LFC fan? Whether they agree with your mandate or not?

Quite simply, that isn't how a union works.

[redprodigal]

Why would you not support every LFC fan? Whether they agree with your mandate or not?

 this is what stops the fans being united on this matter!

The Union represents people who agree with their aims and objectives and support the club. What more do you want ffs?

[Mutton Geoff]

It's a nice idea in theory.

The US traditionally uses light regulation for their financial and corporate systems. So much so the regulators missed the boat on the worst financial disaster in decades.

Hicks would be small fry and unlikely to be of any interest when set against the likes of Madoff and Stanford.

Quite simply, that isn't how a union works.

Hicks was supported or protected by Bush, there must be some democrats around who would like to have a check on Hicks business dealings!

Your stat answer about how the union works is the one thing that worries me about you guys! You should be a liverpool fan first as I am, you are in the union because you are a liverpool fan! So not being funny but what comes first your union or your fellow LFC fans and the club?

I have supported this club for fifty years passionately, so i care as much without needing to be in some union to prove it!

Final question what happens to SOS once the yanks have gone?

[hoonin]

Hicks was supported or protected by Bush, there must be some democrats around who would like to have a check on Hicks business dealings!

Not gonna happen mate. Pointless ragging on about it.

Your stat answer about how the union works is the one thing that worries me about you guys! You should be a liverpool fan first as I am, you are in the union because you are a liverpool fan!

I'm not a member.

Seems you don't fully understand the purpose of SOS though. It isn't purely about ownership - they also exist to support match going fans in other areas.

What will happen when the yanks have gone? The union will continue to support its members for as long as it has that membership.